What type of engineer are you?

[nzwasp]

Seems like there's a boat load of engineers on beyond - Im interested in what types of engineers. I probably know about 40 engineers in Calgary and I would say 80% of them are process engineers.

I don't know all the types I am just including the ones I can think of.

Edit: One of the reasons i'm interested is - in a typical oil and gas company what make up of engineers would you typically see?

Also does the university of Alberta and Calgary graduate a overwhelming amount of certain types of engineers to work in oil/gas.

[pheoxs]

Degree in Electrical and work in Automation & Controls

[EK 2.0]

Train Engineer....

Choo Choo!!

[R154]

Mechanical. Work in Electrical.

[killramos]

You will get 2 answers to this question, what people took in school and what they do for a living. I remember a statistic from school that 90% of engineers will call themselves something different than what they took in school within 5 years. Either through discipline switch or specialization.

For me it's Mechanical Engineering and Business Development (essentially Evaluations) currently. Formerly worked in Reservoir Engineering.

Since you asked:

Reservoir is a specialized subset of petroleum engineering with the task of modelling oil and gas reservoirs using numerical and analytical methods in order to understand what has happened within the formation (reservoir) itself and predict what it will will do in the future ( forecast). Generally using more sophisticated methods than simple curve fitting that are used throughout the industry. A lot of work in fluid phase behavior and property characterization, pressure and fluid response, and implications for beyond primary recovery of oil and gas fields.

[bjstare]

Degree in Electrical, work in Project Management.

[dirtsniffer]

Mechanical - work in manufacturing - customer facing tech services / tech support role

[sabad66]

Software Engineering by school, but working as a Business Analyst. Since I haven't done much 'engineering' since graduating, my pinky ring sits at home collecting dust :angel:

[NoPulp]

Not sure if you're asking who holds a degree in engineering, or who does engineering.

I'm a mechanical engineering technologist and do water management, gates mostly used for irrigation. I went to school at first for a degree, but switched to tech, much more enjoyable for me.


You'll find most people are mechanical, electrical or civic. Sometimes chemical or petro. All the other ones you listed are more of a position or a branch off discipline IMO. I think the most broadest type of engineer is mechanical. Most companies mostly care that you hold a degree in engineering, not the actual discipline typically.

[bjstare]

Cue Eng vs Tech debate. Haven't had one in 2016 yet.

[jwslam]

Mech by schooling.
Working as none of the above. Pretty sure I'm the only one or one of very few on here that's a Fire Protection / Process Safety Engineer.

[realazy]

Degree in Mechanical Engineering, but worked as a Petroleum Engineer at a producer. I did both production and development before moving onto a finance role now in tax recently as part of a more creative rotation due to my interests in pursuing an MBA.

To answer your question, most producers hire Mechanical, Chemical, and Oil & Gas/Petroleum engineers.

[gretz]

Mechanical Imagineer by day... Work as a mech. eng. designing / manufaturing custom drilling equipment.

CNC machinist by night at home, making fun parts for the masses

[redblack]

Sandwich engineer. Would you like extra meat and cheese today?

[lasimmon]

Degree in Petroleum, work in Petroleum.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by cjblair
Cue Eng vs Tech debate. Haven't had one in 2016 yet.

:guns:

Beat me to it!

The OP said engineer though. An engineer is a professional designation, and as such, I don't feel there is much ambiguity in what he asked, he's not talking about us lowly technolgists :whipped:

[haggis88]

Originally posted by jwslam
Mech by schooling.
Working as none of the above. Pretty sure I'm the only one or one of very few on here that's a Fire Protection / Process Safety Engineer.

That sounds like a great job. I've seen a few job postings for things like this and wondered if it would be a good fit for me. Is it something that your mechanical skillset transferred to easily?



Originally posted by redblack
Sandwich engineer. Would you like extra meat and cheese today?

You laugh, but in countries where "Engineer" is not a protected term (i.e the UK), even the guy who comes to install your cable is an "Engineer"

[bjstare]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


:guns:

Beat me to it!

The OP said engineer though. An engineer is a professional designation, and as such, I don't feel there is much ambiguity in what he asked, he's not talking about us lowly technolgists :whipped:

Wow, I'm thoroughly impressed. Your post is on the money, but I didn't expect it to come from you :rofl:

[nzwasp]

Yeah I was mainly interested in engineers.

Although to me it seems technologists are much more hands on vs engineers which are design focussed is that fair? well except the engineers in the field.

[Strider]

Mech with petro minor
Working in a reservoir/evaluation role

I know/see very few process engineers, I'd imagine they're employed more on the EPC side than E&P.

Also echoing the comment that very often discipline by schooling will differ from discipline by trade.

[NoPulp]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Yeah I was mainly interested in engineers.

Although to me it seems technologists are much more hands on vs engineers which are design focussed is that fair? well except the engineers in the field.
In my experience technicians are more actual hands on with building.
Technologists are more hands on in design, but design or problem solve with existing technology.
Professional engineers typically get pushed more into project management and do less design work as they progress in their career.

That's my experience anyways and why I went with technologist. Can also work towards P.tech. Best of both worlds.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[Dumbass17]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Don't feel bad, I am even more lowly than a technologist, haha

Just a "drafter"
I was "just" a drafter for a long time. I think it's a a good starting point to be honest. I see lots of errors on drawings and it's good to have a drafting background now that I'm on the field. Just try to get some field exposure so that "dot or line" can be visualized in the real world.. And that, no 150mm on paper is not "alot of room" in the real world haha.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to play boombeach and watch manual labour:devil:

[Little Dragon]

Software Engineer but I do Mechanical engineering work (hydraulic simulation and calculations)

[foos_guy]

Electrical Engineer but working in Cyber Security as a "Systems Engineer"

[A2VR6]

Degree in Mechanical, work in Project Management.

[XylathaneGTR]

Originally posted by A2VR6
Degree in Mechanical, work in Project Management.
x2.

[diamondedge]

You spelled Electrical wrong in the poll.

Degree in Electrical, doing electrical engineering for facilities n' things

[riander5]

poll is flawed. Do you want to know what discipline people took in uni or what field they are in in industry

process reservoir projects are all jobs types not engineering disciplines

Mech working in process/operations/project management (small company)

[V6-BoI]

Computer in school, Controls & Automation for work.

[Nova316]

Electrical in school, Project manager/Electrical for Utilities for work

[ExtraSlow]

Voted other. Took an oil and gas degree, and have been production and drilling in career.

[zieg]

Mech tech, CET, working on P.Tech application.

[350ZAl]

Took Mechanical Engineering Technology as well as Instrumentation Engineering Technology.

Currently working as a technologist in automation & controls.

About 50/50 between in the office and working in the field which is a nice mix for my short attention span...

[mazdavirgin]

:dunno: So many techs replying in a thread about engineering. Identity crisis much?

Electrical

Instrumentation and Control

[R154]

Just wait until the power "engineers" get in here. they are a riot!!!

[Joe-G]

Petroleum Transfer Engineer! ;)


Originally posted by mazdavirgin
:dunno: So many techs replying in a thread about engineering. Identity crisis much?

Electrical

Instrumentation and Control

Ouch that hurts, I just want to be an engineerd too! But I only went to SAIT so :dunno: ... Maybe some day :love: :love:

I cant stand technologists that call themselves engineers though. I've come across so many techs that throw the engineer title around... Oh well :confused:

[gretz]

Originally posted by Joe-G
[B
I cant stand technologists that call themselves engineers though. I've come across so many techs that throw the engineer title around... Oh well :confused: [/B]

Are they not Engineer Techs? Or do they need to throw the tech out as to not upset the P.eng warlords?

[Darkane]

Originally posted by R154
Just wait until the power "engineers" get in here. they are a riot!!!

Lol. Do tell.

[XylathaneGTR]

Originally posted by Joe-G
Petroleum Transfer Engineer! ;)



Ouch that hurts, I just want to be an engineerd too! But I only went to SAIT so :dunno: ... Maybe some day :love: :love:

I cant stand technologists that call themselves engineers though. I've come across so many techs that throw the engineer title around... Oh well :confused: thread derail imminent.

[riander5]

That the techs and power engineers even had the audacity to look in this thread.... (joke)

:rofl:

[nzwasp]

I would of thought if you went to school as a chemical engineer then you would of done your coop as a chemical process engineer and now you would be a process engineer or maybe you moved onto project engineering. However you probably wouldn't of gone to school to do chemical and then end up in mechanical engineering.

[R154]

Originally posted by Darkane


Lol. Do tell.

You operate a boiler or a building.

Maybe you run the train at heritage park?!?!


Just a jab. :love:

I tell you this, though; most of the time tech's are better to deal with then other engg folk. Tech's know, when they dont know enough or anything at all.

Nothing worse than having to explain really basic stuff to a p.eng with 10+ years experience. Why can't you design a switchgear system to have 4x 1000AT/800AF breakers... Yep, you read that right.

Or the infamous 4P6W. Tell me, what is the 6th W for? Especially when the VDR requests 4C teck.

[zieg]

That happens everywhere. I once had to explain heat treating to a mech.

In any case I'm a project manager like everyone else on my team, which is about 50-50 diplomas and degrees in mech/elec/auto. And we're dropping like flies right now. More work for the survivors, I suppose..

[Cos]

.

[M.alex]

financial engineer - i combine math w/ programming and finance to make bank :poosie:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Cos
I'm actually impressed how long this thread has held on. Haha



Wasn't even my fault!:hijack:

[Sugarphreak]

....

[Matty_10]

Engineers create a problem
Tradesman builds the problem
Tech fixes the problem
:poosie: :poosie:

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by R154
Just wait until the power "engineers" get in here. they are a riot!!!

Why the quotes around the word engineer? The Power Engineer title is legal and official with both the Alberta government (www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Regs/2003_085.pdf ) and the federal government (http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Profile.aspx?val=9&val1=9241).

Professional Engineering does not own or control the word "engineer". They do own and control the title "Professional Engineer"

[Darkane]

Originally posted by R154


You operate a boiler or a building.

Maybe you run the train at heritage park?!?!


Just a jab. :love:

I tell you this, though; most of the time tech's are better to deal with then other engg folk. Tech's know, when they dont know enough or anything at all.

Nothing worse than having to explain really basic stuff to a p.eng with 10+ years experience. Why can't you design a switchgear system to have 4x 1000AT/800AF breakers... Yep, you read that right.

Or the infamous 4P6W. Tell me, what is the 6th W for? Especially when the VDR requests 4C teck.

Right now I'm not operating anything as I'm on a project. Working with the RFO team.

During our detailed engineering, alarm rationalization, DCS FAT, Operator Simulator MVT etc the engineers need me or one of the other two operations guys including the Plant Manager who is not a professional just a lowly 1st class to give our blessings or else it doesn't go through. I'm shoulder to shoulder with the engineers and I don't care what they think of me as long as I know my shit. The hardest thing is I have to be able to keep up with all the engineers from process, mech, automation/controls, reliability etc.

I don't pretend to be a professional obviously, but our governing body designates us with an "engineer" title. Be it what it is.

Agreed 95% of power engineers are riots ;)

[nzwasp]

Well I guess since I started it I should comment. I work in it networks I am not an engineer however where I was born and in the rest of the world we are called network engineers. But as soon as I lived in alberta I had to change my role and resume to reflect I was an analyst or technician, people have told me that apega sues people for using engineer when they aren't (I think this is bs though).

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by nzwasp
People have told me that apega sues people for using engineer when they aren't (I think this is bs though).

They don't sue you it's a lot heavier handed. They take you to court possibly fine you and get an injunction through the court system against you. It's potentially far more serious and if you were to flaunt the injunction which could potentially result in jail time through contempt...

http://www.kolev.com/images/Know%20How/Enforcement%20Practices.pdf


Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Most work at an engineering firm in an applicable discipline


:dunno: Well then all the drafters and tech writers etc... who work in engineering firms should reply as well?

[fcukda]

I have a software engineer degree. However, I don't really do any engineering work. Just a software developer.

[mo_money2supe]

Took Civil Engineering in school, and also working as a "Civil" Engineer. I do a balance of both design & PM'ing, thought my title at work is purely a Project Manager.

The quotations around Civil is because those that took Civil Engg in school branch off into anyone of Transportation, Geotechnical, Structural, Civil, etc. - at least for consulting. "Civil" Engineers typically only refer to the municipal/subdivision/servicing infrastructure realm. Anyone else working in the same industry (that is, "Civil" Engineering Consulting)?

Why did I choose non-O&G consulting vs. EPC O&G? Stability. Sure, O&G pays easily 10-20% more (in a good, competitive year), but just like my investment profile, I prefer steady growth and low(er) risk. Besides, I'm about 10 years into my career now; the salary gap is not as big as it once was when I first started out in the industry anymore. I'm comfortable making what I earn and it's much easier for family planning than with market-driven careers.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[dirtsniffer]

:rofl:

majority of the bitch work, that's for sure.

;)

[R154]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Probably... Gotta have some of the people who do the majority of the work representing, or it ends up being a wives party !

You may think you can do what any one discipline of engg does, but you really can't. The reality is, that you don't have the credentials to talk as much shit as you do.

I don't agree with people ragging on engg tech's or drafters. However, you are a special kind of snowflake that has a huge chip on your shoulder.

Don't confuse drawing some cable schedules or a few pipes as being the same as being the person making the conductor ratings or calculating rate flow/valving in a P&ID.

I dare you to put your money where your mouth is and get an engg degree. If you think you're better than your multi-disciplinary coworkers, that is.

As for Darkane. That sounds like a cool job. Clearly you're good at it.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by R154
You may think you can do what any one discipline of engg does, but you really can't. The reality is, that you don't have the credentials to talk as much shit as you do.
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---vh6O2PB--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/197kqbvbs8bx5png.png

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by R154


Don't confuse drawing some cable schedules or a few pipes as being the same as being the person making the conductor ratings or calculating rate flow/valving in a P&ID.



Hahaha, because conductor ratings and calculating rate flow and valving requirements is sooooooooooo difficult :rolleyes:

And of course an engineer would say that about drawing, because fuck me if I didn't have to constantly deal with some engineer who was all "well I could draw it in solidworks, so it must work in the real word!" Derp.

[lilmira]

http://senselessramblingsofthemindless.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/butthurt.jpg

[R154]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Hahaha, because conductor ratings and calculating rate flow and valving requirements is sooooooooooo difficult :rolleyes:

And of course an engineer would say that about drawing, because fuck me if I didn't have to constantly deal with some engineer who was all "well I could draw it in solidworks, so it must work in the real word!" Derp.

I'd expect nothing less from someone who doesn't do any sort of design. The extent of your technical knowledge doesn't get you far enough to have a conversation, let alone do any sort of real work.

You may know what matlab is, but "fuck me" if you know how to use it.

At least sugarphreak has done some.

[350ZAl]

This is getting entertaining... I need a popcorn emoji




Originally posted by Matty_10
Engineers create a problem
Tradesman builds the problem
Tech fixes the problem
:poosie: :poosie:

^ I've lost count of how many times that's been the outcome of projects lol

[killramos]

This reminds me of having a conversation of what i used to do with my cousins roughneck boyfriend. Who just came out with the solution of, "why don't you just drill with invert and all your problems are solved". :nut:

Everyone thinks that their specific knowledge set has all the best answers to all the problems.

Reality is that it takes teams of hands on, technical, theoretical, business etc. experience to come up with the best possible answer to a problem.

:dunno:

But no one wants to hear that "everyone's skill set and what they bring to the table is valuable", they always prefer " my ideas are better than yours because of X, LOL HOW DUM R U". There is also very little consideration amongst various working disciplines that there are multiple reasonable correct answers to a problem.

I have pretty minimal faith in people who cant admit to their own ignorance in the workplace.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by R154


I'd expect nothing less from someone who doesn't do any sort of design. The extent of your technical knowledge doesn't get you far enough to have a conversation, let alone do any sort of real work.

You may know what matlab is, but "fuck me" if you know how to use it.

At least sugarphreak has done some.

This repsonse is interesting. In my line of work, techs do far more design in the Electrical discipline than engineers do. Our elec eng's do a lot of MR/VDR, etc. But the bottom line is, when they do a design and it gets sent to site and it can't be built, they fucked it up as a team. The construction super bitches about it, then the field engineer will fix it. :rofl:

Process is completely different, with the engineers doing all the design work (i.e. PSV sizing, etc).

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by killramos

I have pretty minimal faith in people who cant admit to their own ignorance in the workplace.

This is pretty much it.

But these threads are always way to much fun.

[R154]

I suppose I am in a unique position. There is only one of me at my company. I have 2 drafters & 1 tech. The tech spends his days doing app review (read: scanning engine data and making comments or programing PLC/controls). The drafters model for me once I give them a single lines and all of the specs.

In a bigger firm where it is an EPCM or consultancy firm, sure. But I physically build things in my facility. We have a couple lines that I modify to suit application specific situations - then submit to the OEM with our review/tech adjustments.

I deal with electrical/mechanical majority of my time and on occasion very basic structural.

[lasimmon]

Too late to the party...

[andyg16]

Degree in Petroleum work in Petroleum (Operations)

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by R154
wank wank wank wank wank

Wasn't me who came in here and was an asshole to start, just would like to point it out.

I have huge respect for engineers and the profession. I wanted to be one for a long time. And most of the engineers I work with are truly brilliant and know their shit :thumbsup:

What I don't care for gloating and trying to put other people down. Different skills, talents, and in general people are required to get a job done. I couldn't do my job without engineers, and they couldn't do their job without me.

[blitz]

Mechanical in school, production and operations for 4 years, development for 3, and exploitation for the last 5.

I tend not to enjoying talking with other engineers or techs, so I stay out of these threads :poosie:

[Feruk]

Originally posted by blitz
development for 3, and exploitation for the last 5.
Every place I've worked, those mean the same thing. Curious what the difference is?

[max_boost]

Originally posted by R154


You may think you can do what any one discipline of engg does, but you really can't. The reality is, that you don't have the credentials to talk as much shit as you do.

I don't agree with people ragging on engg tech's or drafters. However, you are a special kind of snowflake that has a huge chip on your shoulder.

Don't confuse drawing some cable schedules or a few pipes as being the same as being the person making the conductor ratings or calculating rate flow/valving in a P&ID.

I dare you to put your money where your mouth is and get an engg degree. If you think you're better than your multi-disciplinary coworkers, that is.

As for Darkane. That sounds like a cool job. Clearly you're good at it. lol this kid is ruthless.

[CompletelyNumb]

Beyond boxing match to find out who is truly superior, techs or engineers.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
Beyond boxing match to find out who is truly superior, techs or engineers.

From a physical prowess standpoint? Lose-lose :rofl:

[max_boost]

Just post a pic of your certificate, diploma or degree or better yet your bank account. :rofl: :thumbsup:

[g-m]

I have a mechanical degree and do PM. I've met lots of bright techs and lots of dumb engineers and for certain roles they can be interchangeable. But tech & p.tech != engineer

[gpomp]

Chemical

[Aleks]

Originally posted by nzwasp
I would of thought if you went to school as a chemical engineer then you would of done your coop as a chemical process engineer and now you would be a process engineer or maybe you moved onto project engineering. However you probably wouldn't of gone to school to do chemical and then end up in mechanical engineering.


Originally posted by nzwasp
Well I guess since I started it I should comment. I work in it networks I am not an engineer however where I was born and in the rest of the world we are called network engineers. But as soon as I lived in alberta I had to change my role and resume to reflect I was an analyst or technician, people have told me that apega sues people for using engineer when they aren't (I think this is bs though).

A real engineer would know that "would of" and "wouldn't of" is grammatically wrong . :poosie:

[bjstare]

Originally posted by Aleks




A real engineer would know that "would of" and "wouldn't of" is grammatically wrong . :poosie:

No, a real engineer wouldn't know that. Engineers are some of the worst spelling/grammar offenders out there :rofl:

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by g-m
I have a mechanical degree and do PM. I've met lots of bright techs and lots of dumb engineers and for certain roles they can be interchangeable. But tech & p.tech != engineer

I'm assuming you mean PM as project management?

Wouldn't that still be a type of engineering? Like mechanical projects or Petroleum projects etc.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by cjblair
No, a real engineer wouldn't know that. Engineers are some of the worst spelling/grammar offenders out there :rofl:
Pretty much. Go into any report and it's typical to find a 9 line paragraph with no period. It makes sense because it's all one sentence!

[bjstare]

Originally posted by lasimmon


I'm assuming you mean PM as project management?

Wouldn't that still be a type of engineering? Like mechanical projects or Petroleum projects etc.

All depends on your business line. I'm at a large EPC and I'm in project management. Our projects have many engineering disciplines involved, thus, trying to classify a large scale project under a single discipline isn't applicable at all.

[blitz]

Originally posted by Feruk

Every place I've worked, those mean the same thing. Curious what the difference is?

IMO Development doesn't include any A&D work, Exploitation does.

[Cos]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[googe]

You kids who get all possessive about your silly "protected" title are adorable :rofl:

FYI only "Professional Engineer" is "protected". Nothing wrong with people calling themselves engineers. It's a very broad term and can be applied to just about anything.

[zieg]

Well, I think they're trying to change that. The goal is that the word engineer itself is protected, and if you drive a train you're going to have to call yourself something else.

Many of the tradespeople i work with introduce me and refer to me as an engineer, and then I add "...ing technologist"

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by googe
You kids who get all possessive about your silly "protected" title are adorable :rofl:

FYI only "Professional Engineer" is "protected". Nothing wrong with people calling themselves engineers. It's a very broad term and can be applied to just about anything.

Wrong. It is protected in almost every province. So ya. FYI.

http://www.kolev.com/images/Know%20How/Enforcement%20Practices.pdf
https://www.apega.ca/enforcement/rights/

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
Well, I think they're trying to change that. The goal is that the word engineer itself is protected, and if you drive a train you're going to have to call yourself something else.

Many of the tradespeople i work with introduce me and refer to me as an engineer, and then I add "...ing technologist"

There are a few exceptions such as power or trains.

[max_boost]

Don't you need that ring to be an engineer? I'm sure u can buy it on eBay. When I was single I was gonna ask my brother to borrow his to impress the ladies but then realized I know fuck all about engineering and decided against it, instead I used the Porsche and rage2 hooked it up. Lols.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[g-m]

Originally posted by cjblair


All depends on your business line. I'm at a large EPC and I'm in project management. Our projects have many engineering disciplines involved, thus, trying to classify a large scale project under a single discipline isn't applicable at all. yea this. At an owner and it's multi discipline

[jwslam]

Originally posted by max_boost
Don't you need that ring to be an engineer?
Know of a guy who did schooling in the states so he didnt' get a Canadian ring and ordered off ebay; it's significantly different. It looked shinier, thicker, and rounder like a geologist ring. Maybe he just picked the wrong guy to order from :nut:

[g-m]

Some US engineering schools give out an order of the engineer ring. They're different and smooth
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Engineer

[tch7]

Originally posted by max_boost
Don't you need that ring to be an engineer?
Nope, it's purely optional.

[killramos]

All the ring says is you attended the ceremony of the calling of the engineer and took the oath. Actually has nothing to do with school. It is pretty much the same thing as taking the Hippocratic oath as a medical doctor.

It's supposed to be a symbol and reminder of the duty of an engineer to further the public good and consider the consequences of his actions.

There is no reason why an american trained engineer couldn't register for the ceremony and receive a ring. You can also get a new one whenever you want for 20 bucks. Started as a purely Canadian thing, some american schools copied the idea but just give them out at graduation. Apparently with different designs.

Personally, I had mine 4 months before graduation.

Which makes it all the more interesting when you see people boast about not wearing it.:nut:

[Cos]

.

[nzwasp]

Or they lost their rings as the case is for my wife.

[dirtsniffer]

I deal with engineers at different companies all the time. I would say most of the Canadian engineers I work with do wear them.

I wear mine while I am working only.