Teachers association still thinks wage increases will be part of negotiations

[FraserB]

Wage freeze should be a no-brainer. But sadly the odds are that Notley will want to shore up support in her base and ignore the economic realities.


http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/raise+teachers+still+possible+alberta+teachers+association/11744857/story.html

[HiTempguy1]

Why is a wage freeze a no brainer? Out of 5 years, three years were wage freezes, there was one year with a raise, and one lump sum.

Why should teachers NOT get raises? I know plenty of people who are getting raises and bonuses this year. :dunno:

[nzwasp]

Alberta has the highest paid teachers in Canada, im sure they should get raises but on a performance basis not because they are all entitled to a 3% raise each year.

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Why should teachers NOT get raises? I know plenty of people who are getting raises and bonuses this year. :dunno:

Some corporations may have money. Our government does not.

[Rat Fink]

.

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
I swear some of you guys must've been roofied and had your asses hogged out with strap-ons by teachers, realtors, and technologists to sling so much hate around to other fields.

It's just a matter of taking the economic conditions into matter. Granted what was posted above that they have been frozen for 3 years already I am indifferent to the matter. Given many people are losing jobs and the private sector is shitting the bed it isn't an unrealistic expectation to expect the government to freeze as well.

[schocker]

Here are their wages from the collective bargaining:

http://www.teachers.ab.ca/For%20Members/Salary%20Benefits%20and%20Pension/CollectiveAgreements/Pages/Calgary-School-District-No-19-%282012-2016%29.aspx

[Xtrema]

It really ain't that bad. I know other parts of governments, semi-government position need less qualification and pays more.

[A790]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Why is a wage freeze a no brainer? Out of 5 years, three years were wage freezes, there was one year with a raise, and one lump sum.

Why should teachers NOT get raises? I know plenty of people who are getting raises and bonuses this year. :dunno:
I am a little surprised to read that comment from you. Turns out we do agree on something.

[phreezee]

The wasteful spending in the CBE is that they build K-4 AND 5-9 schools which doubles the administrative staff, while the Catholic school board builds K-9 schools.

[Type_S1]

Why does the public sector expect raises while the remainder if the economy is in a SEVERE recession and the government is running a deficit? At times like this the public sector should all be taking 20% salary reductions go keep the deficit down. The teachers in AB get paid more then anywhere else in Canada already thanks to the o&g industry. One would think when that industry struggles they shouldn't be holding their hands out asking for more???

[killramos]

If anyone wants to get an idea of the kind of scope involved in day to day CBE waste:

http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary/2014/11/27/calgary-school-awaiting-grant-to-turn-edible-garden-dreams-into-a-reality.html

Go ahead and read the price tag on that puppy.

[schocker]

Missed this gem


In response to a teacher’s statement Thursday that he and his colleagues are not going to get a raise in the next contract, Ramsankar cautioned against that assumption. It’s too early in negotiations to tell, he said. Anything could happen in 2016.

“The price of oil could fluctuate. All we need to do is have a war.”
What a moron :facepalm:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by A790

I am a little surprised to read that comment from you. Turns out we do agree on something.

I think we agree on a lot more than you think. Sometimes the paths we take to get to our conclusions are different though ;)


Originally posted by schocker
Here are their wages from the collective bargaining:


I think an important point to make is that by my understanding, it can be difficult to get 150 days a year of experience. There are lots of teachers, that unless in a permanent full-time position, would struggle to get yearly increases based on experience.

I would also cry if my potential salary topped out at $90k. I mean, that is pretty damn good money, but it also isn't going to make you rich.

[BigMass]

Teachers are important. Should they be fired in tough times like the rest of us? No, because they're an essential part of our society. We need to invest in education and do what we can to increase the number of teachers and provide proper infrastructure.

HOWEVER, in tough times my boss doesn't come up to me and ask if I would accept not getting a raise this year. Heck, they don't even ask if I would take a salary cut. They go around, point to 100 people and fire them. I wish I could get paid less money to do the same job I had a year ago. At least then I can continue to work in my field, not get rusty, and feel like I'm still a human being. Yet, teachers can't just keep getting paid what they're getting paid now? lol. I wish to Christ I had that option and so do many of my friends who not only don't have raises this year, they're unemployed and making ZERO and trying to figure out how to pay their basic bills every month. I understand not firing teachers, but to give raises in this economy? Jesus H.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I would also cry if my potential salary topped out at $90k. I mean, that is pretty damn good money, but it also isn't going to make you rich.

94K a year with 3 months of time off? I don't think there's anything to complain about on that front.

Summary of this whole ordeal? Unions gonna union.

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


94K a year with 3 months of time off? I don't think there's anything to complain about on that front.

Summary of this whole ordeal? Unions gonna union.

I wouldn't do that job for that money. Surrounded by the teenagers of today and being expected to mold their little brains. No thanks. Just like being a sprinkler fitter they make good money because nobody else wants to do the job.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


94K a year with 3 months of time off? I don't think there's anything to complain about on that front.

Summary of this whole ordeal? Unions gonna union.

My sister & brother in law are teachers as well (along with my best friends wife), they've all admitted in finding ways to make over $100k a year by coaching volleyball or other various ways.

Yeah pretty sweet gig that you can start a job that pays about $60k a year , INSTANTLY get 12 weeks off, guaranteed every long weekend off, where the average Canadian income is $49k a year and usually gets between 2-3 weeks off.

The argument of "We need to mark after hours" is bullshit. Most jobs have some form of unpaid overtime expectation, especially now that everybody can be dialed into work at all times through their smart phones.

[Boat]

Teaching seems like a pretty sweet gig. Dat pension tho. High rates, but starts paying at 55.


From the document



For 2015, the contribution rate for the first
$53,600* of earnings is 11.44 per cent of
salary and 16.34 per cent for the remaining
amount.

Thats pretty rough. However:



IS THIS PENSION A GOOD DEAL?
• The average teacher lives 30 years after
retirement. Most teachers will continue to get more
out of the pension plan than they ever put in.
• Your pension is guaranteed for life and is
inflation protected.
• The risk of less than expected returns is not
born by the pensioner but shared half by all
contributing teachers and half by the Alberta
government.
• Teachers without a pension plan would have to
contribute the same amount every year into an
RRSP for the entire length of their career and
would have to earn 11 per cent every year both
prior to and after retirement to receive the same
benefit as the Plan provides.



http://www.teachers.ab.ca/SiteCollectionDocuments/ATA/For-Members/Salary-Benefits-Pension/Pensions%20and%20Retirement/Check%20It%20Out%20Brochure%20(English)%20TW-32-3.pdf



For me, its tough figuring out your retirement needs when you dont know when you are gonna die.

[A790]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1

I think we agree on a lot more than you think. Sometimes the paths we take to get to our conclusions are different though ;)

Fair point. I'll keep that in mind. :)

[g-m]

Well if I was guaranteed 11%, sure as fuck I'd be contributing the max every year. Hell of a job when you take the vacation into account

[codetrap]

.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by codetrap
Pretty easy to say. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and contribute and extra 20% of your salary in taxes to keep the deficit down.

me and my friends in O&G are unemployed and would gladly take %20 less instead of being fired.

[max_boost]

Go Teachers Go! Pro teacher here. They deserve everything they get.

BTW, where's Cos? :devil:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by BigMass


me and my friends in O&G are unemployed and would gladly take %20 less instead of being fired.

So, lets recap:

You went into a field of work that was high risk (volatile market), high reward (great pay). You average well over 20%+ higher wages than people in other industries occupying similiar positions (and if you go up north, 100% higher).

So other people need to suffer because you've had your cake taken away? You shouldn't have to shoulder the risk along with the reward? Others have to somehow share in your risk taking?

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


So, lets recap:

You went into a field of work that was high risk (volatile market), high reward (great pay). You average well over 20%+ higher wages than people in other industries occupying similiar positions (and if you go up north, 100% higher).

So other people need to suffer because you've had your cake taken away? You shouldn't have to shoulder the risk along with the reward? Others have to somehow share in your risk taking?

Didn't you vote for the NDP? Aren't you pro socialism? Everyone should share in the pain of the current economy...that is true socialism. If there is no money you get paid less. Its funny how public sector employees preach for liberal ideas unless it comes to them taking a hair cut.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[codetrap]

.

[codetrap]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[suntan]

Is a wage freeze okay, or will that cause armageddon?

[codetrap]

.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by BigMass


me and my friends in O&G are unemployed and would gladly take %20 less instead of being fired.

Only an inkling on the matter, but after WW2, didn't Germany reduce the full time working hours to avoid mass unemployment? Then they subsidized with social services.

Well, it was something like that:)

[kobe tai]

I'm ok with teachers getting paid well and with these tiny wage increases. If anyone should get a wage freeze it should be politicians.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by kobe tai
If anyone should get a wage freeze it should be politicians.

A wage freeze for these crooks and hypocrites isn't nearly enough.

Put it this way, if the average peasant did what Queen Redford did, they would be in prison. Where is she now? Probably in Hawaii with us giving her foregoing millions.

[Darkane]

The good teachers earn their keep. Everytime I think of any job I try to rationalize how many people in that field are just there because it's a job and half ass it.

For example, ever think of how many doctors became doctors because of the pay or an outside influence? It's very troubling when I think about it.

I know a teacher who was provincially honoured, and constantly earns students choice awards. He works A LOT of extra hours to prep and make damn sure he's doing a good job.

A lot of you are forgetting the horse shit teachers put up with because of the parents. Oh no it couldn't be my Johnny, he's an angel.

Teachers no longer have the respect and authority they should. In the 80's and 90's if we fucked up at school and our parents were brought in, we'd get it at home real bad.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by codetrap


YOU put the words in your mouth. Your shitty analogy is both offensive and completely highlights your total fucking ignorance on the topic. Your entire point is that all the gov't staff (THE EMPLOYEES) should take a pay cut, then in the same breathe you compare them to fucking parasites? I dare you to say that to the next person in the public sector you encounter that is providing a service to you.
:rolleyes:

Stop getting your panties in a bunch. He was using a metaphor, anybody with a working brain identified that and he wasn't name calling anything. I feel like the public sector (teachers) failed you if you fail to understand what he was saying.


Originally posted by Darkane
The good teachers earn their keep. Everytime I think of any job I try to rationalize how many people in that field are just there because it's a job and half ass it.

For example, ever think of how many doctors became doctors because of the pay or an outside influence? It's very troubling when I think about it.

I know a teacher who was provincially honoured, and constantly earns students choice awards. He works A LOT of extra hours to prep and make damn sure he's doing a good job.

A lot of you are forgetting the horse shit teachers put up with because of the parents. Oh no it couldn't be my Johnny, he's an angel.

Teachers no longer have the respect and authority they should. In the 80's and 90's if we fucked up at school and our parents were brought in, we'd get it at home real bad.

Pretty spot on - my friends dad just retired (was a teacher/principal for the last 30 years). Talking to him and just what he's seen since the 80's to now is disgusting how kids act in schools - but he even said, a good chunk of the teachers hearts aren't in it to help or bond with the kids, they just want their summers off now and want the easy 8-4 job, scantron marking or "hand the paper to the kid behind you" method.

Seems like it's going both ways - kids are becoming narcissistic assholes while a lot of teachers now aren't giving a shit at all.

I remember in high school first day of class my english teacher had his house ph# on the chalk board and explained how he's there at any time if you need to call about a project, or even if you're just having troubles with anything. He said he trusted us not to abuse this or prank him since he feels like he will be fair with us, and we can be fair with him (then told a story how one of the kids called him when the cops arrested him because he was too scared to call his parents) - teachers like that are incredible, but I feel they're few and far between now.

That said, I do agree with the whole "NOT MY JOHNNY" attitude parents have now. News flash, your fucking kid isn't a special unique snowflake.

This is pretty spot on

http://www.truthdig.com/images/made/images/cartoonuploads/teachersnow_590_332.jpg

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Darkane
The good teachers earn their keep. Everytime I think of any job I try to rationalize how many people in that field are just there because it's a job and half ass it.

Most general doctors as well. You can only take so much kid and parent shit, nor the shit you sift through when examining that anal haemorrhoid

Teachers and doctors. I'm thinking they're right up there with, "The worst jobs."

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I drew a comparison between the public and private sector to the natural balance between a host and parasite... Which is practically a text book definition. The private sector generates wealth, and public sector draws from it in the form of taxes. I didn't call employees parasites, and it wasn't intended to be condescending. à

How can you post such an inane, incendiary comment and not expect people to respond? You're being really short-sighted and I'd be shocked if you really believed this. A better anology would be a mutualism, because the only way the private sector can generate wealth is because they are enabled by the public sector (education, health care, roads, laws, military, etc.).

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by FixedGear
A better anology would be a mutualism, because the only way the private sector can generate wealth is because they are enabled by the public sector (education, health care, roads, laws, military, etc.).

Too bad the reality of so called "Mutalism" is now Dictatorship disguised as Democracy.

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Too bad the reality of so called "Mutalism" is now Dictatorship disguised as Democracy.

I agree, but don't want to open that can of worms haha.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by FixedGear


I agree, but don't want to open that can of worms haha.

I've not only opened that can of worms, but eaten the contents.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[FixedGear]

^wrong again. You've got very strong opinions for a guy who is constantly talking out of his ass. Read this and learn something: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(biology).

You should be paying me for all the things I teach you.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[codetrap]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[HiTempguy1]

There is no point in having the debate if someone believes services can be provided better through privitization. They want their services provided for in a manner private business typically does.

There are so many reasons that services are offered by the gov and not just farmed out to contractors, but if I really have to list them all, again, there is no point in having the debate as the person is either being willfully ignorant, or has taken an extreme stance.

Why does the gov have employees at all? They should all be private business I guess is the opinion.

[codetrap]

.

[ExtraSlow]

Group hug?:love:

[Seth1968]

You people argue nuances, and as such, dismiss the elephant in the room.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Group hug?:love:

I would actually love for phreak to expand on his thoughts :dunno:

Really, all he has said is the public sector is a parasite (which has been proven incorrect and it isn't, but whatever) and that he wants to see public sector wages go down for some reason.

Typically, you see the "canadian federation of taxpayers" bleating about high public service costs. But whenever I have tried to do a comparison of apples to apples jobs/careers in the public sector, I always come back to the same thing: public sector employees, after EVERYTHING is factored in, are slightly underpaid compared to private sector employees. The "benefits" public sector employees receive should not be counted as a 1:1 cross over to straight cash, because cash is king. The other benefits typically do not cost the employer as much as straight money would.

I still have a hard time seeing how public services being provided privately would equate to cost savings. In the case of people like phreak, they say wages will go down. Well, the cost of living would go down if everyone in O&G took pay cuts too. Same with lawyers. Or engineers. Or bank tellers. Or CEO's of corporations. Etc etc etc. So I don't think that is a very valid argument.

The public sector also doesn't need to make a profit. The private sector does, arguably about 30% (gross) of whatever revenue is spent. Net profit needs to be at least 8-10% for anyone to remotely consider starting in the field.

I don't think pointing to our shitty, crumbling roads is a good example of private companies doing good public work. The costs of a PRIVATE education are astronomical. I personally do not feel that deregulating energy has been a good thing. Since insurance was regulated, costs appear to have gone DOWN. So its not public owned, but it is very regulated. Oil resource development? It would be interesting if the resource had stayed "nationalized" provincially. Hard to quantify where we would be now. One could argue that all of the billions upon billions of dollars that have flowed out of Alberta would have been kept here.

Anyways, rambling aside, lets get back to the main parts of discussion. Just like with education, the point of having a public sector is it provides services for EVERYONE, regardless of your income. If everything went private sector, well, I guess the best example is the USA and healthcare. A system that works very well for the people who can afford it. I know phreak supports this style of society, and that is fine. I certainly don't.

And coming back to teachers, nobody has provided any info to support them being paid less, or in the specific point of this thread, not getting raises.

[Cos]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[codetrap]

.

[CompletelyNumb]

Not sure about the tangent this thread has taken, but I think every job in the world should come with a yearly raise that is no less than the previous years rate of inflation. Public or private.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
Not sure about the tangent this thread has taken, but I think every job in the world should come with a yearly raise that is no less than the previous years rate of inflation. Public or private.

Would you like pixies and unicorns with that as well? The only people getting perks like that are the public sector who are currently busy raiding the coffers with their hilariously lucrative pensions and economy be damned raises. The public sector is so hilariously out of touch I can't believe people are arguing that 94k a year with 3 months off, kick ass benefits and a hilariously lucrative pension is bad pay. The amount of abuse in the public sector is really laughable. The amount of sick days used, people scheduling medical/dental appointments on work days taking the whole day off, etc... etc... Just so much abuse.

[SKR]

I'm surprised there aren't more teachers on here. You'd think with how fabulous everyone thinks it is they'd be tripping over each other trying to apply.

[Feruk]

Haven't we had this thread before... a few times?

I do find it pretty funny that Alberta teachers are the highest paid in Canada and don't believe that's at all tied to oil & gas. Must be just a coincidence. :nut:

I work in O&G, but I think teachers should be getting an inflation raise this year. The idea of a 20% pay cut is inappropriate and silly. Risk-reward. Teachers take less risks, for less reward, but also less downside than O&G. Bitching about teachers getting a raise in both bad and good times makes no sense.

[Cos]

.

[redblack]

Teachers need a pay cut or their 2month holiday taken away. How hard is it to stand up in the front, read out of a textbook and give homework.

[Cos]

.

[CompletelyNumb]

A good teacher is worth their weight in gold.

Any educator that believes in "no zero" policies or "new math" should be shot dead however.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
A good teacher is worth their weight in gold.

Any educator that believes in "no zero" policies or "new math" should be shot dead however.

Combine tgis with the nonsense that is now spreading to post secondary and we're simply breeding generations of pussies and setting them all up for failure once they hit the workforce.

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
A good teacher is worth their weight in gold.

Any educator that believes in "no zero" policies or "new math" should be shot dead however.

New math is very effective for multiplication.

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by redblack
Teachers need a pay cut or their 2month holiday taken away. How hard is it to stand up in the front, read out of a textbook and give homework.

Totally! Teachers need a pay cut for sure. If the economy is suffering, then yes, we should lower their pay. Just like when the O&G industry was flourishing, people were rushing to give teachers a pay increase! Oh wait...


From this statement I'm guessing that you did not have any good teachers in your educational tenure...AT ALL. I know I did not have very many good teachers who challenged my thinking and I shared your opinion for a while; however, there are teachers who do positively affect their students' lives and I then realized that it was not necessarily the teachers who taught me that jaded my view of education but my own attitude toward learning.

If your schooling consisted of just listening to a teacher read a text book in front of a class and give you homework then yes, that teacher does deserve a pay cut and you should go back to school and relive your schooling with an inspiring and thought provoking teacher.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by FraserB

and setting them all up for failure once they hit the workforce.

Actually... I am starting to disagree with this sentiment.

If everyone IN the workforce is a bunch of pussies that don't know how to work, and are the people effectively setting policy for appropriate work behaviour/effort, in effect, the situation sets itself up to breed that kind of mentality.

And since everyone has to be inclusive and not shit on anyone's parade, they all get gold star performance reviews anyways. The liberal dream lives on! :rofl:

[M.alex]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer


New math is very effective for multiplication.

new math is very effective for failure :rofl:

my degree is in statistics and actuarial science and when I saw new math I was like WTF?????? :nut:

[v8killa]

If teachers are expected to take a payout when times are bad they should have received bonuses and raises when oil was $100+...but instead they had a three year wage freeze and a 2% (maximum of $2000 for teachers of ten years+) increase in the fourth. Can't have it both ways in my opinion and I think they deserve everything they get. 10 years to get to 94-100gs isn't all that great especially since coaching and extra curricular's are volunteer based.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by v8killa
10 years to get to 94-100gs isn't all that great

Depends who you ask really - It's over double the average Canadian wage of $49,000.

$30,000 higher than the average Albertan

http://careers.workopolis.com/advice/how-much-money-are-we-earning-the-average-canadian-wages-right-now/

Justin Trudeau's idea of middle class is $44,700 - $89,400 , so according to Trudeau, a teacher is a High Income earner.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


Depends who you ask really - It's over double the average Canadian wage of $49,000.

$30,000 higher than the average Albertan

http://careers.workopolis.com/advice/how-much-money-are-we-earning-the-average-canadian-wages-right-now/

Justin Trudeau's idea of middle class is $44,700 - $89,400 , so according to Trudeau, a teacher is a High Income earner.

I don't even...

Would you like to expand on your apples to oranges comparison of someone with a university degree and 10 years of directly applicable career experience versus the average wage of a Canadian (which includes people working as cashiers)? And how it applies to this conversation?

If you started with a teacher's starting wage (~$60k), I'd understand a little bit more. But I do not see how any point can be formed over how much a teacher tops out at.

[403Gemini]

^^No trust me, I get it. Honestly $100k a year really isn't even THAT much - but hearing some teachers plead about how hard their lives are makes me roll my eyes. Teachers year 1 start at an AVERAGE wage, they don't have to work at it - just boom year 1 of their job, 3 months off and $60k wage ($66k if they went through the full 6 years of school).

1 year after, they instantly are bumped up over average wage, and it just keeps climbing.

They are important, I won't discount that - but they are certainly paid appropriately including the amazing health care and other benefits they have.

Compare this to american teachers who start at $36k a year, ours have it pretty good.

edit: Also you finish 4 years of school, get a teaching job at 23~ years old , $60k/yr is pretty fucking awesome at 23 years old.

[Rocket1k78]

Teachers might get 3 months off a year but you also have to account for all the overtime they put in, the day doesnt end at 4 because now theyve gotta go home and mark work, prep for the next day and report card season has to be a nice little process at home im sure.

[suntan]

It took my wife 21 years to get to $95K/annum at a large O&G company, with a SAIT diploma (although, after a few years' experience, your PS education matters for shit).

I think teachers deserve their pay. A couple years of frozen wages won't hurt them.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Rocket1k78
Teachers might get 3 months off a year but you also have to account for all the overtime they put in, the day doesnt end at 4 because now theyve gotta go home and mark work, prep for the next day and report card season has to be a nice little process at home im sure.

The overtime thing is bullshit to me - I work in restoration, imagine how much "overtime" i put in with 2013 (i literally slept in my truck in High River for a few hours overnight when we were deep into the first week), or last years floods in Chestermere. I didn't get a giant bonus, I work on salary so I didn't get overtime pay - I can guarantee I was awake longer than Nenshi's claim to fame "72 hours straight!" , but I didn't piss and moan because it was my job and people needed help to get shit pumped out of their basements (not to mention trying to educate people on asbestos/mould , while the media + city council kept saying "GOOD JOB VOLUNTEERS! YANK IT OUT OF THERE!" :rofl: ). I go on call every few weeks where I can be called out any time - most of my friends have careers like this as well. That said, we knew what we signed up for .

Everybody who has a career typically has some form of "take home" work now with us constantly hooked up via VPN's or by smart phone - so sorry, the worlds evolved to taking home work, it's no longer a teacher only exclusive excuse.

[Timmeh]

Originally posted by 403Gemini
^^No trust me, I get it. Honestly $100k a year really isn't even THAT much - but hearing some teachers plead about how hard their lives are makes me roll my eyes. Teachers year 1 start at an AVERAGE wage, they don't have to work at it - just boom year 1 of their job, 3 months off and $60k wage ($66k if they went through the full 6 years of school).

1 year after, they instantly are bumped up over average wage, and it just keeps climbing.

They are important, I won't discount that - but they are certainly paid appropriately including the amazing health care and other benefits they have.

Compare this to american teachers who start at $36k a year, ours have it pretty good.

edit: Also you finish 4 years of school, get a teaching job at 23~ years old , $60k/yr is pretty fucking awesome at 23 years old.

If you have 4 years of post secondary education, you won't start at 60K. You also have to keep in mind that the annual salary only applies to teachers with a probationary or continuous contract. It's very rare for first year teachers to be granted a probationary contract. Realistically, first year teachers will be on temporary contracts if they are lucky, and subbing when they are not. It's also important to note that teachers with temp contracts, even if they span the entire school year (10 months), will not be paid their full annual salary over the 10 months. Their annual salary would be divided by 12 for each month, and they are only paid for the 10 months they work; so 5/6 of their annual salary.

Also, the first year of teaching is the most difficult. No experience teaching the courses you are given, and there is no guarantee that you will teach the same courses again. Just my 2 cents.

[Cos]

.

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


The overtime thing is bullshit to me - I work in restoration, imagine how much "overtime" i put in with 2013 (i literally slept in my truck in High River for a few hours overnight when we were deep into the first week), or last years floods in Chestermere. I didn't get a giant bonus, I work on salary so I didn't get overtime pay - I can guarantee I was awake longer than Nenshi's claim to fame "72 hours straight!" , but I didn't piss and moan because it was my job and people needed help to get shit pumped out of their basements (not to mention trying to educate people on asbestos/mould , while the media + city council kept saying "GOOD JOB VOLUNTEERS! YANK IT OUT OF THERE!" :rofl: ). I go on call every few weeks where I can be called out any time - most of my friends have careers like this as well. That said, we knew what we signed up for .

Everybody who has a career typically has some form of "take home" work now with us constantly hooked up via VPN's or by smart phone - so sorry, the worlds evolved to taking home work, it's no longer a teacher only exclusive excuse.

Just because you don't know the employment standards doesn't mean they shouldn't apply to anyone else

http://work.alberta.ca/employment-standards/overtime-hours-and-overtime-pay.html

http://work.alberta.ca/documents/Overtime-Hours-and-Overtime-Pay.pdf

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Nitro5


Just because you don't know the employment standards doesn't mean they shouldn't apply to anyone else



The worst part is, if all employees started demanding their worker rights be simply respected, it would help everyone everywhere.

Employment is a two way street. The employer pays you to do work that they NEED done. You accept payment for the work. Treating it like you "owe" them something for having helped them earn money is ridiculous, and by operating with that attitude, gives employers leverage over employees for no other reason than the feels.

[birdman86]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


The overtime thing is bullshit to me

Everybody who has a career typically has some form of "take home" work now with us constantly hooked up via VPN's or by smart phone - so sorry, the worlds evolved to taking home work, it's no longer a teacher only exclusive excuse.

:werd:

We have big boy jobs, 40 hour work weeks are for cashiers and government employees.

[vengie]

Originally posted by Cos


Wife just passed her 4th year I think, did our taxes this weekend. 6 years of education (B.A. and Masters of Education). She made a couple hundred dollars over $60,000.

That doesn't seem right?? What district are you in?

My gf is a 3rd year teacher with a 4 year education degree and she is just over $60k as well... You'd have to think your wife would be in a higher bracket than her.

[killramos]

If only there was a handy dandy website telling you exactly what teachers make at different experience levels so we wouldn't have to argue:


Effective September 1, 2015
Years of Teacher Experience Years of Post Secondary Education
Four Five Six
0 59,054 62,514 66,475
1 62,514 65,982 69,932
2 65,982 69,447 73,400
3 69,447 72,900 76,862
4 72,900 76,360 80,319
5 76,360 79,831 83,789
6 79,831 83,293 87,250
7 83,293 86,754 90,709
8 86,754 90,223 94,170
9 90,223 93,681 97,641
10 93,912 97,372 101,331

For Calgary's agreement

http://www.teachers.ab.ca/For%20Members/Salary%20Benefits%20and%20Pension/CollectiveAgreements/Pages/Calgary-School-District-No-19-(2012-2016).aspx

Pick your district for agreement

http://www.teachers.ab.ca/For%20Members/Salary%20Benefits%20and%20Pension/CollectiveAgreements/Pages/Collective%20Agreements.aspx

Cos if what you said is actually true you might want your wife to consult with HR as to how many years of education credit they granted her as she might be entitled to some significant back pay.

My wife had to have her 6 years experience audited due to not taking it all in Alberta but got it in the end.

[Rat Fink]

.

[Cos]

.

[Rat Fink]

.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by Cos

How many people got 0% raises in Alberta in 2012 or 2013. IMO it is all fair, contract negotiations always lag.

I'm willing to bet a shit tonne of people got no raises then. Every employer citing the "we don't give inflation raises" and then also not giving raises because the economy isn't good enough.

Everyone I worked with at Telus hadn't received a raise for the last 4 years or more due to this policy. I spend 2 years with a IT manufacturer who cited that the economy wasn't good enough in 2010, 2011 and 2012 to give raises. I think alot of people settle for 0% even when times are good just because they a) enjoy their job and need a job or b) like the people they work with.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Nitro5


Just because you don't know the employment standards doesn't mean they shouldn't apply to anyone else

http://work.alberta.ca/employment-standards/overtime-hours-and-overtime-pay.html

http://work.alberta.ca/documents/Overtime-Hours-and-Overtime-Pay.pdf

This. This right here is the mindset of a lazy socialist. Sorry if I'm calling you out - I know my rights and the employment standards. I know I COULD tell my boss to get stuffed and there's not much he could do about me not wanting to work overtime (other than make my work environment unpleasant) - but I choose to be a team player , work my ass off, and in the last 8 years, my wage has tripled through progress.

But you can sit there, throw government links at your boss and tell him why you don't want to work late because it's "your right" , I'll choose to work hard and get rewarded for it.


Originally posted by birdman86


:werd:

We have big boy jobs, 40 hour work weeks are for cashiers and government employees.

:thumbsup:

Being paid well isn't a "right", it's earned.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Nitro5]

So knowing my worth and standing up for my rights makes me lazy?

I think it's lazy to roll over and take it because that's the path of least resistance.

[killramos]

Well they aren't mutually exclusive states of being 'Phreak :rofl:

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


You're married!?!

I thought you were in your early 20's

Back in my day by your early 20's you'd have been working for 15 years, had four kids and be 4-6 months away from your first grandchild by your eldest daughter and one of the hired men.

[BavarianBeast]

I didn't know you were Mormon, JRS.

[Rat Fink]

.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Rat Fink


You're mentioning "wage" in your post so you clearly aren't paid salary. You'd be singing a different tune about your chest-thumping longer than 72 hour shifts if you were doing it for free. :rofl:

I get paid salary, not hourly, so for semantics - my SALARY is higher because I work hard if you want to be anal about it :rofl:

And yeah Nitro, in a lot of industries if you walked off a job site and told the rest of the team "Sorry guys, my 40 hours are up for the week" , you wouldn't be popular in a lot of industries. I agree it's your rights, and you can argue it whichever way you want and call it rolling over, but most hard working people will call it recognition. When you put in your 40 hour week and want to apply for a promotion over a guy who has better numbers than you and has put in 80+ hour weeks during times of emergency, guarantee the other guy will get the job.

I do believe in a fair work/life balance - but we're talking about teachers having to do report cards a few times a year - and I'm simply saying every industry(least big boy jobs) have times of emergency where it calls on employees to work extra hours, so it's not something teachers can say they are mutually exclusive in saying they do.

[Rat Fink]

.

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by Nitro5
So knowing my worth and standing up for my rights makes me lazy?

I think it's lazy to roll over and take it because that's the path of least resistance.

Yes it does make you lazy.

Going above and beyond what is "recommended" is how you move ahead in life. It is obviously not that simple, but the logic behind it stands true.

Are you really trying to convince people if you had a big project due and you asked your employees to push out a couple of extra hard weeks to get it completed that you wouldn't shame the 2 people who came to you and said sorry only 40 hours a week vs the 2 other people who put in 60 hours a week to get it done?

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Rat Fink


There's report cards....but there's way more to it than I think you realize. There's daily lesson plans. If you teach a whole year in one grade and get placed in another grade the following year you have to redo your lesson plans for another year (the previous years work is "out the door"). If you have students who are behind from learning disabilities you may have to make modified plans. You can pretty much add 3 hours minimum onto every day you work for this alone.

Many teachers have to maintain a class website or create daily/weekly emails to keep parents in the loop of their precious children.

Then you've got shopping trips on your own time to gather teaching supplies. They may not be in the school budget so if it's something a teacher feels they may need to make the lesson that much better for the kids it's all out of the teacher's own pocket.

If you are coaching sports teams (some schools make this mandatory) you don't get paid for it.

You've also got kids who come from broken homes who don't have school supplies, may not be coming to school with proper lunches, and may not be coming to school with proper winter clothing. A lot of teachers (like my wife) will go to thrift stores on their own time and buy spare clothing like toques, gloves, even jackets out of their own pocket. They'll also buy granola bars and other things to give to kids who don't have enough.

Basically, there are teachers out there who spend ridiculous amounts of hours and their own money taking care of kids that shitty parents fall behind on. My wife pretty much has two jobs.

^^ Your wife is one of the better teachers, especially with the thrift store thing. Mad props - but I have some friends who are teachers, and I've seen them phone in sick on a Friday and called in a sub because they wanted to dick off to Banff for the day. Seeing my friend do that pisses me off to no end and I think it gives teachers a bad name :banghead:

That said, I also have some friends who run science tutoring programs on weekends or throughout the summer - so I do understand there are the few that go the extra mile.

But doesn't it piss your wife off to see co-workers who show up 15 minutes before school begins, leave right when the bell goes off at the end of the day - and they are being paid the same?

Your wife deservedly earns every dollar she makes , but then there are others abusing the system , or taking the easy way out by doing minimalist work and are protected by the union?

I remember in High School going to parent teacher interviews one year and the teacher didn't even know who the hell I was :rofl: we sat down and he had a panicked look on his face, so I pointed at my name on his list.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


I get paid salary, not hourly, so for semantics - my SALARY is higher because I work hard if you want to be anal about it :rofl:

And yeah Nitro, in a lot of industries if you walked off a job site and told the rest of the team "Sorry guys, my 40 hours are up for the week" , you wouldn't be popular in a lot of industries.

You are the only one talking about walking off a job after 40 hours.

What he is referring to is the "sleeping in your vehicle" and "working 72 hours straight".

Additionally, what you are also saying is that your employer expects you to work additional time for LESS pay. Lets be clear about that. A janitor can earn $80k per year SALARY, boy that's a lot of money for a janitor! Well sure, if he works 100 hours per week every week.

So you can feel all righteous in deflating your hourly pay to help put money in your bosses pocket, I'll keep collecting double time thanks :rofl:

As for " not being popular" that is my last concern personally. Show me the money or GTFO.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by ickyflex


Yes it does make you lazy.

Going above and beyond what is "recommended" is how you move ahead in life. It is obviously not that simple, but the logic behind it stands true.

Are you really trying to convince people if you had a big project due and you asked your employees to push out a couple of extra hard weeks to get it completed that you wouldn't shame the 2 people who came to you and said sorry only 40 hours a week vs the 2 other people who put in 60 hours a week to get it done?

You can say whatever you want, the correlation between busting a nut and getting ahead in your chosen career isn't anywhere close to a guarantee. Work smart, not hard.

Additionally, ever heard the phrase "poor planning on your part does not neccesitate an emergency on mine"? So no, if I wasn't getting paid OT to come in, I wouldn't.

But that's the difference, I'd never work for a company that didn't pay for my time :dunno: I don't work for free.

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by ickyflex


Yes it does make you lazy.

Going above and beyond what is "recommended" is how you move ahead in life. It is obviously not that simple, but the logic behind it stands true.

Are you really trying to convince people if you had a big project due and you asked your employees to push out a couple of extra hard weeks to get it completed that you wouldn't shame the 2 people who came to you and said sorry only 40 hours a week vs the 2 other people who put in 60 hours a week to get it done?

Assume much?

You're Damn right that going the extra mile to get ahead makes a difference, but unpayed work isn't one of them. I know too many people that work long hours off the clock and all they become is that guy who is worked into the ground. If all you bring to the table of value is free work you're doing it wrong

As for your example, I would offer compensation and or incentives for the extra work they do as I would expect the same.