Guaranteed Basic Income to start.

[ZenOps]

Free money. Yes, you heard that right - free money.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/26/ontario-basic-income_n_9328264.html

But only in select Ontario areas to start.

[Sugarphreak]

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[M.alex]

if implemented properly maybe it works - you get rid of a shit load of unnecessary, bloated services?

[BandW]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
If you pay people to be poor, you'll never run out of poor people... but you might run out of other peoples money

Well the status quo seems to be doing a pretty good job of creating more poor people anyway.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[phreezee]

Ontario is $308B in debt and pays $11B in interest per year!
Fucking Liberals!
Alberta needs to separate from these welfare states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_government_debt

http://www.globalwealthprotection.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/chief-wiggum.png

[lilmira]

No failing in school, no failing in life. At least it's consistent right?

[Masked Bandit]

So this is basically welfare on steroids? All the deadbeats & bums will move to Ontario and who exactly is going to pay for all of this? The only way I can see this working is if all the other social assistance programs like welfare, OAS, AISH, EI, etc. are abolished and the entirety of their budgets are brought under this umbrella WITHOUT any increase to the total expenditures of the previously fractured system.

But I'm sure that's not going to happen.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Giving large sums of money out to people who can't manage their own cash with no strings.... I am sure the casinos, bars and local drug dealers will all be thrilled, lol

I have a feeling it is probably cheaper just to give the poor a guaranteed basic income than it is funding endless amounts of social workers and social programs that "help" the poor.

The poverty industry is a billion dollar industry that only helps the people working in it.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by sputnik
I have a feeling it is probably cheaper just to give the poor a guaranteed basic income than it is funding endless amounts of social workers and social programs that "help" the poor.

The poverty industry is a billion dollar industry that only helps the people working in it.
My thoughts exactly!

[rx7boi]

Give money away
Reduce poverty
?????
Profit

[Swank]

Originally posted by sputnik


I have a feeling it is probably cheaper just to give the poor a guaranteed basic income than it is funding endless amounts of social workers and social programs
And at least the social workers will have a guaranteed income to fall back on when their jobs are abolished :D

[Feruk]

Originally posted by rx7boi
Give money away
Reduce poverty
?????
Profit
We're pretty much doing that today as is.

[Xtrema]

If we believe in the future of autonomous cars, self service kiosk and robot taking more job then it creates, then we need GBI before society turn into:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/The_Purge_poster.jpg

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
So this is basically welfare on steroids? All the deadbeats & bums will move to Ontario and who exactly is going to pay for all of this? The only way I can see this working is if all the other social assistance programs like welfare, OAS, AISH, EI, etc. are abolished and the entirety of their budgets are brought under this umbrella WITHOUT any increase to the total expenditures of the previously fractured system.

But I'm sure that's not going to happen.

That is the idea of how it saves money, but you are right that it needs a lot of stuff to work that way. It can have other benefits like allowing people to 'follow their dream' because they don't need to stress about income which can lead to a lot more small business startups which helps the economy. Plus streamlining social welfare is just good policy. If it can allow more freedom for single income households that is good for the children and can open up jobs for others (in theory).

With the world in a position where automation can increase economic growth without creating jobs I think UBI is something every developed country will need to explore eventually, so trials are good. Not sure if Ontario is in the best situation to start one but they can do what they want.

[ExtraSlow]

I can see the value in this concept. I also think our current system is insanely complex for folks at the bottom.

As always, the devil is in the details, and I don't trust any level of government to implement social programs without screwing them up somehow.

[revelations]

Originally posted by kertejud2


That is the idea of how it saves money, but you are right that it needs a lot of stuff to work that way. It can have other benefits like allowing people to 'follow their dream' because they don't need to stress about income which can lead to a lot more small business startups which helps the economy. Plus streamlining social welfare is just good policy. If it can allow more freedom for single income households that is good for the children and can open up jobs for others (in theory).

With the world in a position where automation can increase economic growth without creating jobs I think UBI is something every developed country will need to explore eventually, so trials are good. Not sure if Ontario is in the best situation to start one but they can do what they want.

The theory behind basic income has been tried many times and seems to have worked in these cases.

Not everyone has or wants goals and many would rather sit in front of TV ALL DAY if given a chance.

With Basic Income, these people get off the workforce for those who want to work and get ahead.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I can see the value in this concept. I also think our current system is insanely complex for folks at the bottom.

As always, the devil is in the details, and I don't trust any level of government to implement social programs without screwing them up somehow.

It gets more complicated when you have such significant divisions in social welfare between jurisdictions like Canada has. Ideally we would see a trial started at the federal level with cities/towns in each province (with provincial buy-in) to get a real idea of how this might work.

But at the same time something that works one way in Dauphin, MB probably won't work the same way in Calgary or Toronto so just how many trials do we need before we can try universal implementation which needs a generation to gauge anyway.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by revelations


The theory behind basic income has been tried many times and seems to have worked in these cases.

Not everyone has or wants goals and many would rather sit in front of TV ALL DAY if given a chance.

With Basic Income, these people get off the workforce for those who want to work and get ahead.

The cable companies will be lobbying hard for UBI. :D

[BandW]

Originally posted by revelations

Not everyone has or wants goals and many would rather sit in front of TV ALL DAY if given a chance.


This rationale sounds somewhat similar to what would happen if all drugs were legal and there was a huge bucket of free meth on a street corner downtown.

I wouldn't give a shit if meth was legal and handed out freely. I wouldn't try it.

Still, to think that more people wouldn't try it and get hooked comes across as naive. Maybe it's not a great analogy. Maybe it is. Who knows?

[InRich]

I think its a great idea! lets see how far we can get Canada into as much debt as possible, as fast as possible. fuck it!

fuck I can't even stand looking at her fucking face anymore, that stupid liberal bitch! Look at all the idiots around her, laughing and smiling and applauding her. How do these kinds of people even get into power? I wonder about Canada sometimes.

If I got 3200/month I'd quit my job for sure. As much as I love it, I'd still quit, just to teach them a lesson for being so fucking stupid. wear them down to nothing. no more stress, no more door knocking and no more having to pay taxes. fantastic idea!

[spikerS]

The more I think about it, the more I think it could work.

For all the overhead and costs of maintaining the welfare system, EI, CPP, AISH, etc etc etc, you could just have 1 system that replaces ALL the other ones. May actually work out to be cheaper.

Flip side to this, with more money in the hands of everyone, expect prices to rise for everything in a similar fashion.

[muse017]

$3200 without any deductions? Hell Yes! I'd rather choose not to work and keep getting paid.
What a stupid way to discourage working.

[Type_S1]

This should end well. :rolleyes:

I'd quit my job immediately if this was implemented, start collecting cheques and open a business oversea's with no reported income back here. My tax dollars will never go to support this BS.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by spikerS

Flip side to this, with more money in the hands of everyone, expect prices to rise for everything in a similar fashion.

This thread is full of people willing to give up their current income in exchange for $38K a year so I don't think this will be a problem.

[killramos]

^ People do it all the time. Its called fucking retirement.

Except this system will allow people to do it at 30.

I don't think they can grasp how many taxpayers this will take out of the system.

76k household (me and wife) tax free with every minute of every day as free time?

Where do I sign up.

Might as well offer free post secondary while they are at it. Cause no one will bother going to school if they can make that kind of coin for just existing.

[haggis88]

Originally posted by killramos
^ People do it all the time. Its called fucking retirement.

Except this system will allow people to do it at 30.

I don't think they can grasp how many taxpayers this will take out of the system.

76k household (me and wife) tax free with every minute of every day as free time?

Where do I sign up.

Might as well offer free post secondary while they are at it. Cause no one will bother going to school if they can make that kind of coin for just existing.

Bingo

Me and my OH could get by quite easily on $6400/mo tax free...bring it on!

[HiTempguy1]

Holy crap, I never really looked at it that way. $6400/month and work a "cash under the table" job for extra fun money?

[BandW]

You guys claiming that the stipend is $3200/mo should consider actually reading the article. Just saying.

[Prail]

The $3,200 figure was quoted for another country.

No way it would be that big in Canada... try $800-1,200 maybe.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Prail
The $3,200 figure was quoted for another country.

No way it would be that big in Canada... try $800-1,200 maybe.

Switzerland of all places.

I suspect that $3200 would barely cover rent and some food there.

That said the vote is likely to fail.

[pheoxs]

Yeah it's not 3200/month, it would be closer to 1k/month max.


In Finland, a small social democratic country, people will receive an additional 800 euros per month, or just shy of $900. In various cities throughout the Netherlands, people receive an extra $1,000.

Between cutting out government waste of all the other social programs (Saved money) and the fact that most low income people spend every dollar they make, most of this is going to be mostly recovered by the government anyways by various levels of sales/business taxes along the way.

Stimulating the economy at the lower levels is far more effective than handing money to banks/auto manufacturers and hoping it trickles down because it actually gets circulated in our economy.

[msommers]

Originally posted by BandW
You guys claiming that the stipend is $3200/mo should consider actually reading the article. Just saying.

Way too much work, bro.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by msommers


Way too much work, bro.

I don't think any of us were commenting on CANADA having $3200/month, I think (at least I was) saying that if I was given that AS AN OPTION, I would take it.

Of course, I forgot that everything has to be perfectly laid out for you to understand someone else's perspective if it doesn't line up with your preconceived notions of being able to read a person's mind :rolleyes:

[killramos]

And here I was just making fun of Kertejud saying that it is unreasonable for people to quit their higher paying jobs to take the no working 38k tax free deal.

He is the one who cited the number, not me.

[Sugarphreak]

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[msommers]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


I don't think any of us were commenting on CANADA having $3200/month, I think (at least I was) saying that if I was given that AS AN OPTION, I would take it.

Of course, I forgot that everything has to be perfectly laid out for you to understand someone else's perspective if it doesn't line up with your preconceived notions of being able to read a person's mind :rolleyes:

Does anyone actually take you seriously these days?

[revelations]

Just a heads up, in 2005 a single employable (not disabled) person in AB on basic welfare made 5000$ a year.

Also you would likely be living in subsidized/social housing units if you're going to be living ONLY from this.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by BandW
You guys claiming that the stipend is $3200/mo should consider actually reading the article. Just saying.

No shit. People are getting way ahead of themselves here.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Canmorite


No shit. People are getting way ahead of themselves here.

Dude, if it's not in a 'Top 10 Reasons' format such as Buzzfeed I don't make it passed the title!

[RealJimmyJames]

Originally posted by msommers


Dude, if it's not in a 'Top 10 Reasons' format such as Buzzfeed I don't make it passed the title! You passed the spellcheck pretty easily though.

[gogreen]

I'm not an expert in economic theory but this sounds a lot like Social Credit.

[Sugarphreak]

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[mrsingh]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Bring back the Vander-Zalm!


I'd be seriously surprised if anybody on here gets that reference, haha

Please no one needs Bill Vanderzalm again, what was that scandal he was involved in? Some sort of gardens.... I was a kid in the late 80s, early 90s and grew up in BC.

[soloracer]

Originally posted by RealJimmyJames
You passed the spellcheck pretty easily though.

He spelled it right....just the wrong word.

[msommers]

Yep you're both right, it should be 'past'.