California minimum wage $15.

[ZenOps]

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-minimum-wage-deal-20160326-story.html

http://news.yahoo.com/california-lawmakers-unions-reach-15-minimum-wage-deal-082259551.html

"According to the governor's office, 2.2 million Californians currently earn the state minimum wage of $10 an hour."

Did not require a vote or referendum, they just decided to do it. Daaamn, that's going to be a lot of money sloshing around, California having a larger population than Canada.

CAD $21.5 minimum wage, a doubler to catchup?

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Daaamn, that's going to be a lot of money sloshing around no money was created by this scheme, sure some minimum wage earners will have more, but others will become unemployed and have less.

[Buster]

Minimum wage is and always will be zero dollars

[btimbit]

Sure but that's California, minimum wage means nothing as long as the Mexicans are willing to get paid under the table

[ZenOps]

I don't know that people will be fired. They can always print more money :dunno:

[phreezee]

Originally posted by Buster
Minimum wage is and always will be zero dollars

Haha, did you hear about Ontario's pilot project?
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/26/ontario-basic-income_n_9328264.html

[roopi]

Servers will still demand 20% minimum tip.

[Buster]

Originally posted by phreezee


Haha, did you hear about Ontario's pilot project?
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/26/ontario-basic-income_n_9328264.html

A large percentage of current minimum wage earners are minors.

So....still $0 is the baseline.

[InRich]

Originally posted by roopi
Servers will still demand 20% minimum tip.

I've never tipped that high, unless the service is outstanding.

As for minimum wage being 15/hour... who here has a problem with that? seriously. I think its deserved. you can't live in calgary for less then that. even at 15/hour your still probably living with your parents, or in a basement somewhere in the N.E.

I'dhave no problem paying that. as a matter of fact, the minimum wage at my company is 45/hour. and I feel its well deserved.

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by InRich


I've never tipped that high, unless the service is outstanding.

As for minimum wage being 15/hour... who here has a problem with that? seriously. I think its deserved. you can't live in calgary for less then that. even at 15/hour your still probably living with your parents, or in a basement somewhere in the N.E.

I'dhave no problem paying that. as a matter of fact, the minimum wage at my company is 45/hour. and I feel its well deserved.

I have less issues fundamentally with the Minimum wage number being 15 than the effect it has on the work force.

Minimum wage should be designed to encourage young workers (teenagers) to get a job and get work experience. I agree minimum wage is not enough as an adult but as a teenager learning for the first time in their life I think minimum was plenty.

I'm sure this will adjust over time, but during a down period in the economy I don't think this has a positive effect on Alberta's workforce per se. Just my opinion though

[ZenOps]

I know, its pretty much just a number, what it can buy is far more important.

Lets see, when I was born minimum wage was $1.60 US per hour in the US.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/History_of_US_federal_minimum_wage_increases.svg

Extrapolating out for when I hit retirement age, minimum wage should be $85 per hour. Hmm, its actually a little lower than I was expecting, I was thinking more along the lines of $150.

Its eventful for me, because this is basically the point where it has 10x increased, somewhere around 45 years.

But its definitely well within expectations, a 100x increase from birth to retirement (65 to 90 years) seems to be the inflation target.

[Buster]

I can't believe we still debate minimum wage. Other than politically motivated statements, or just crass populism, or a lack of understanding of economics, the minimum wage debate has largely been put to bed decades ago - it's a bad idea. (Although there has been a rather unconvincing revitalization of the debate in recent years.)

Controlling prices is a bad thing. It never works. It always results in a myriad of unintended consequences. Controlling prices for labour (ie a minimum wage) is no exception, despite the Left's and the working class's bloviations to the contrary.

Raising minimum wage has a deleterious effect on employment rate. The higher you raise it, the more dramatic this impact. So if you advocate for a minimum wage, you are actually advocating for fewer people to have jobs. That doesn't seem to make sense.

Try to tell an unemployed, and unskilled worker that the reason they can't work is because the government has decided that they either make THIS MUCH, or they are not allowed to go to work. I'm sure they would love the minimum wage, then.

This doesn't even account for the immorality of telling two people that they have no right of free-association.

But the list of arguments against a minimum wage is long, and I have work to do.

[suntan]

It's all just optics in California anyhow. Their COL is so high, my parents don't even pay their illegals that little.

[phreezee]

Originally posted by InRich

I'dhave no problem paying that. as a matter of fact, the minimum wage at my company is 45/hour. and I feel its well deserved.

Would you be ok with everyone at your company asking for $50/hour now to keep up with inflation? There goes your 10% margin.

[nzwasp]

I wonder if disneyland is going to increase all their prices by the time I go next year.

Well fuck after reading the article its going to take until 2023 to increase the wage to $15. That is fucking ages and I would imagine employers should hardly notice.

[vengie]

I don't understand how this is still an issue...

Minimum wage jobs are not designed to be a career, they are designed for a high school kid to get some work experience in order to move onto better things. If you are attempting to make a career out of a minimum wage job that requires very little skill or work ethic to keep, then you shouldn't be entitled to a "living wage". Get out there and fucking better yourself, increase your skills and you will be paid accordingly.

Enough of this "sucking the goverment tit" mentality, if you want something in life, bust your ass and get it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I think minimum wage should be kept nice and low so that people are more likely to pursue post secondary education and do something with their lives. It also gives people like servers something to work for (tip) if they hardly make any money otherwise. Service is bad enough already with how common 15-20% tippers are, imagine if they were also making $20+/hr haha.

[killramos]

Was just in the states and experienced an american level of wait staff customer service.

I had a bus boy apologizing to me for a minute for my food taking 10 minutes to cook. 10. minutes. I was actually shocked it came out that quickly. And everywhere was like that.

All I know is we pay waitstaff way more here than they do in the states and our customer service is shit.

Tips are a far bigger % of their income. And by and large the concept seems to work in my personal experience.

With a 15 dollar minimum wage you might as well take your order straight to the kitchen yourself. And your waitress would still give you shit for not tipping 20%.

[Buster]

The difference in service between the US and Canada is remarkable.

You see something similar going to Europe, where staff are paid a salary. Bad service.

[Hallowed_point]

If you want to talk out of control tipping expectations, go to Banff/Canmore. I'm surprised that the hippies playing bongos don't ask for a tip on top of the coins thrown into their case.

[suntan]

I'm just gonna leave this here:

http://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster

[vengie]

Originally posted by suntan
I'm just gonna leave this here:

http://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster

One important thing they did not address in there.

The cost of goods and services will increase due to higher minimum wage. Business owners are not going to cut into their profit margins to pay employee wages.

[suntan]

Oh quiet you, inflation is imaginary.

[Buster]

Originally posted by suntan
I'm just gonna leave this here:

http://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster

This is a surprisingly partisan page, and I read it with interest. Many of the "mythbusters" are either easily refutable or just typical left-wingy tropes.

And the whole argument from authority is pretty annoying.

[suntan]

I betcha Obama vetted it himself. Vetted it.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by vengie

The cost of goods and services will increase due to higher minimum wage. Business owners are not going to cut into their profit margins to pay employee wages.

That is correct! :whipped: :whipped: :whipped:

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by suntan
Oh quiet you, inflation is imaginary.

There is no spoon.

[googe]

Originally posted by Buster
I can't believe we still debate minimum wage. Other than politically motivated statements, or just crass populism, or a lack of understanding of economics, the minimum wage debate has largely been put to bed decades ago - it's a bad idea.

You're correct that it was settled long ago, but you seem to have forgotten the outcome, and are wrong on it being a bad idea. Unless you think you know more than these folks:

http://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-statement/

[Buster]

Originally posted by googe


You're correct that it was settled long ago, but you seem to have forgotten the outcome, and are wrong on it being a bad idea. Unless you think you know more than these folks:

http://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-statement/

EPI...


lol

[OTown]

This is an interesting take on it.
4j01L69eXdI

Not sure if i agree or not - to be honest i dont know much about this topic so ill keep my uneducated opinions out of it

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by OTown
This is an interesting take on it.
4j01L69eXdI

Not sure if i agree or not - to be honest i dont know much about this topic so ill keep my uneducated opinions out of it

That's not an interesting take...it's the truth.

[ZenOps]

Unfortunately a $0.00 wage is unrealistic.

We live in a world of multiple jurisdictions, rules, laws. If you could get the entire world onside with a $0.00 wage, it could work, but then again - if you could get the entire world working together - technically socialism could work. Arguably anything could work that wouldn't otherwise if you could get worldwide consensus.

As is, we have 200 nations almost all of them having their own currencies backed by various minimum values. Free flu shots, nickel based coinage, free water, free power or the exact opposite - pay per use water, extra tax on power, paper money, pay extra for healthcare.

So in an imperfect world, a minimum wage based on the economic health of an area (and California is very unhealthy in this respect) is absolutely necessary.

Yup.

[Buster]

That's not true at all.

Ask someone who is unemployed what the "minimum wage" is, and they would be pretty clear: it's $0.00.

When we say "minimum wage" what we are really saying is that we want a hurdle rate for an employer to actually hire someone. But there is no obligation to hire, so the lowest number a person can earn is actually....nothing.

It's the dirty secret that minimum wage advocates never acknowledge. But they can never square that circle.

[suntan]

What many people want is full employment + livable wage. They are two mutually exclusive goals though.

But hey, if someone figures it out... Nobel prize...

[ZenOps]

If you pay someone less than what is required to eat, drink and have some form of shelter - Its technically slavery. If you deny someone the right to own land to produce their own food, that is actually pretty par for the course in white history.

That dollar number is vastly different depending on which country you are in. $38 per month will keep someone alive at near slave wages in Bangladesh.

Would a Californian starve under $1000 per month? It would be a stretch for many because of laws like not being able to grow food in cities. Would a Hawaiian welfare recipient starve with less than $60,590 in benefits each year?

[Buster]

Slavery requires that there be no consent.

[ZenOps]

That is the problem, what do people do when they cannot make a living wage? When faced with starvation, people will take slavery, but that is a horrible motivator - its how you get employees that will pee in your cornflakes.

Usually they start rioting, some self-immolate, some take it all in stride because its all just a numbers game (especially in nations that do not have anything physical backing up their currency)

People themselves have to determine what is worth working for and what is not. Would I personally work toward a man on the moon mission? Hells no, absolute waste of effort, time, money and resources. Would I grow a few sheafs of wheat or try to build a VR headset, sure why not.

[ZenOps]

vAcaeLmybCY

Prices going up is usually the boogeyman, but arguably - its just going to people who are working for it anyhow.

If you ask any wheat farmer in Canada right now, I'm pretty sure they would say that prices do need to go up at least a little bit. $170 per ton for wheat is a hard mistress if everyone decides to only eat bread and water.