2016 Track Junkies Lapping (Castrol Raceway)

[Joe-G]

The first lapping day of the year is coming up on April 29th!

Anyone else planning to attend some of these events?

Thought I'd give it a share here since it hasn't been shared yet. :dunno:

Events/Registration link: https://www.motorsportreg.com/orgs/trackjunkies

[Boosted_TL]

I'll be there this year. Won't make the 29th though so it's looking like May 23 is my first day.

[Errol.]

I've registered for May.

[Zhao Kan]

I want to but Itd be as an instructor. These are great events to start out in.

Being on weekdays I've never been able to show up at these, but this year my work is a bit more flexible so I'm hoping to have time to instruct at a few.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Planning to be at a few events. Baseline for the S2000 this year for me. Have a goal in mind for this car for a lap time eventually.

[Joe-G]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
Planning to be at a few events. Baseline for the S2000 this year for me. Have a goal in mind for this car for a lap time eventually.

What do you think you/the car is good for? High 1:20s?

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by Joe-G


What do you think you/the car is good for? High 1:20s?

Not currently but my goal is under 1:30 for 2017 I think. Going to take more seat time, and most likely some mods that aren't going to happen this year.

[Darkane]

Yep I'm considering it. Wife won't be thrilled with me if I got to Utah and race the Ford performance school three days before and then go to Castrol. Lol.

Need baselines though.

[Sorath]

i`ll be there victoria day weekend

[zhao]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo


Not currently but my goal is under 1:30 for 2017 I think. Going to take more seat time, and most likely some mods that aren't going to happen this year.

What do you have for mods because that goal is very doable for a stockish s2k as long as you are willing to buy decent tires, and have one mod.

The nice thing about Castrol is there are a few quirks about that track that will shave off crazy amounts of time with minimum effort.

Almost everyone takes a few corners completely wrong too, and while the kink is very hard to get right, the other two corners are almost impossible to screw up once you understand what everyone else is doing wrong.

[EK 2.0]

Hardparker checking in....

Maybe I will come up and spectate a few events haha...

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by zhao


What do you have for mods because that goal is very doable for a stockish s2k as long as you are willing to buy decent tires, and have one mod.

The nice thing about Castrol is there are a few quirks about that track that will shave off crazy amounts of time with minimum effort.

Almost everyone takes a few corners completely wrong too, and while the kink is very hard to get right, the other two corners are almost impossible to screw up once you understand what everyone else is doing wrong.

245/45/16 RE11A, Hawk HP+ and a Karcepts front sway bar.

[k1l4m]

Originally posted by zhao

The nice thing about Castrol is there are a few quirks about that track that will shave off crazy amounts of time with minimum effort.

Almost everyone takes a few corners completely wrong too, and while the kink is very hard to get right, the other two corners are almost impossible to screw up once you understand what everyone else is doing wrong.

Please do share the quirks and common mistakes :)

[Zhao Kan]

Originally posted by k1l4m


Please do share the quirks and common mistakes :)



Corner 4 everyone attempts to do a conventional line here starting on the outside of the track and coming down gradually inside. This is slower, and in road racing gives me a guaranteed pass on you. Why this is because the track is highest in the middle, and having any wheel of your car across the centerline of the track makes you corner off camber. Your corner speed therefore has to be far lower to corner than if you hug the inside of the center line on this corner. The whole track is paved like this but this is the corner it affects you the most.

Corner 3 people get this wrong too. The fastest line here is to get down low, preferably at the start and hug it low until the apex and then track out. You should also be gasing it in this corner until your car starts to push up the track to find your edge of adhesion. Everyone I've instructed to date totally underestimates the speed you can go in this corner and how much faster the low line is.

The kink... this is a corner that exits onto a big straight. That means you want to put the power down early, and this means you should be heavily putting the power down before the apex. You need to get the majority of your turning done before you apex so you have the grip to WOT. To do this you may need to turn your car with weight transfer for extra rotation. It'll also likely involve a heel toe downshift under high gs for most cars. My race car is extremely under powered, meaning it should suck on the straights, and I actually pass a lot of people after the kink because I'm exiting so much faster.

A quirk of this track is corner speed is more valuable here for shaving off lap times than even a gokart track like stratotech was. Power is always useful here but tires alone can mean literally a 10 second a lap difference. Aero is effective basically everywhere too. Buying a set of tires could literally be if more value than triple digits in hp. A properly setup suspension and An alignment enabling you to use all your tire can be big too.

[Zhao Kan]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo


245/45/16 RE11A, Hawk HP+ and a Karcepts front sway bar.

If you bought rcomps, preferably something like a hankook z214 or hoosiers and a set of coilovers (to get prob -2.5 and -1.5 camber rear at the least) I'd say your car should be capable of 128s, maybe 127s. you could basically just get seat time and as long as you are improving you should break into 129s eventually just with driver skill, if not right away.

I'm deep into the 129s with a 2600lb 1986 rx7 with coils, 245wide z214s, an exhaust and intake. Now exhausts do a lot for rotaries but this car came with 146hp from the factory so my power to weight ratio is not exactly great even though my car is lighter.

My car also has a 30 year old chassis which isn't cutting edge in the handling department

[k1l4m]

Originally posted by Zhao Kan




Corner 4 everyone attempts to do a conventional line here starting on the outside of the track and coming down gradually inside. This is slower, and in road racing gives me a guaranteed pass on you. Why this is because the track is highest in the middle, and having any wheel of your car across the centerline of the track makes you corner off camber. Your corner speed therefore has to be far lower to corner than if you hug the inside of the center line on this corner. The whole track is paved like this but this is the corner it affects you the most.

Corner 3 people get this wrong too. The fastest line here is to get down low, preferably at the start and hug it low until the apex and then track out. You should also be gasing it in this corner until your car starts to push up the track to find your edge of adhesion. Everyone I've instructed to date totally underestimates the speed you can go in this corner and how much faster the low line is.

The kink... this is a corner that exits onto a big straight. That means you want to put the power down early, and this means you should be heavily putting the power down before the apex. You need to get the majority of your turning done before you apex so you have the grip to WOT. To do this you may need to turn your car with weight transfer for extra rotation. It'll also likely involve a heel toe downshift under high gs for most cars. My race car is extremely under powered, meaning it should suck on the straights, and I actually pass a lot of people after the kink because I'm exiting so much faster.

A quirk of this track is corner speed is more valuable here for shaving off lap times than even a gokart track like stratotech was. Power is always useful here but tires alone can mean literally a 10 second a lap difference. Aero is effective basically everywhere too. Buying a set of tires could literally be if more value than triple digits in hp. A properly setup suspension and An alignment enabling you to use all your tire can be big too.

Thanks for the pointers! Similar to the advice given by my instructor during my first time on the track who also races (or raced) an rx7 :rofl:

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by Zhao Kan


If you bought rcomps, preferably something like a hankook z214 or hoosiers and a set of coilovers (to get prob -2.5 and -1.5 camber rear at the least) I'd say your car should be capable of 128s, maybe 127s. you could basically just get seat time and as long as you are improving you should break into 129s eventually just with driver skill, if not right away.

I'm deep into the 129s with a 2600lb 1986 rx7 with coils, 245wide z214s, an exhaust and intake. Now exhausts do a lot for rotaries but this car came with 146hp from the factory so my power to weight ratio is not exactly great even though my car is lighter.

My car also has a 30 year old chassis which isn't cutting edge in the handling department

Thanks for the info. I actually no longer own the car as of today, but got something similar.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by EK 2.0
Hardparker checking in....

Maybe I will come up and spectate a few events haha...

Roadtrip?

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by Canmorite


Roadtrip?

I would be down man!!...

[Joe-G]

Originally posted by EK 2.0


I would be down man!!...

Doo it! :clap:

[Joe-G]

Originally posted by Zhao Kan




Corner 4 everyone attempts to do a conventional line here starting on the outside of the track and coming down gradually inside. This is slower, and in road racing gives me a guaranteed pass on you. Why this is because the track is highest in the middle, and having any wheel of your car across the centerline of the track makes you corner off camber. Your corner speed therefore has to be far lower to corner than if you hug the inside of the center line on this corner. The whole track is paved like this but this is the corner it affects you the most.

Corner 3 people get this wrong too. The fastest line here is to get down low, preferably at the start and hug it low until the apex and then track out. You should also be gasing it in this corner until your car starts to push up the track to find your edge of adhesion. Everyone I've instructed to date totally underestimates the speed you can go in this corner and how much faster the low line is.

The kink... this is a corner that exits onto a big straight. That means you want to put the power down early, and this means you should be heavily putting the power down before the apex. You need to get the majority of your turning done before you apex so you have the grip to WOT. To do this you may need to turn your car with weight transfer for extra rotation. It'll also likely involve a heel toe downshift under high gs for most cars. My race car is extremely under powered, meaning it should suck on the straights, and I actually pass a lot of people after the kink because I'm exiting so much faster.

A quirk of this track is corner speed is more valuable here for shaving off lap times than even a gokart track like stratotech was. Power is always useful here but tires alone can mean literally a 10 second a lap difference. Aero is effective basically everywhere too. Buying a set of tires could literally be if more value than triple digits in hp. A properly setup suspension and An alignment enabling you to use all your tire can be big too.

Thanks for the advice! I too was taught a little differently, but I'll have to give this a try this season.

If you have the time, do you think you could tell me all the things Im doing wrong, or could be doing better? This was my first time out at Castrol, but feel free to rip it apart... I'd almost prefer it lol.

lY-uBn6gHB0?t=37s

[JustinL]

If you get the opportunity, go for a track walk (or run). It's hard to appreciate the shape of the surface at speed in the car. The track has quite a crown and like Zhao says it's most noticeable in Turn 4 (the one after the banked T3). Some people make a big transition back right across the track after coming off the banking, but it's faster to only come back to half wayish. If you get caught on the other side of the crown, the turn becomes off camber and you spend the whole time trying to not lose too much speed or over slowing to get back to the apex. It's also safer to stick to the inside of the track through 4 and get a really good run on to that straight. That's the only track out that takes you to a concrete wall (the one with all the miata shaped marks on it).

[zhao]

Originally posted by Joe-G


Thanks for the advice! I too was taught a little differently, but I'll have to give this a try this season.

If you have the time, do you think you could tell me all the things Im doing wrong, or could be doing better? This was my first time out at Castrol, but feel free to rip it apart... I'd almost prefer it lol.

lY-uBn6gHB0?t=37s

Any confusing bits ask for clarification.

You can go a lot faster in the back section. it seems your corner speeds are far lower than your edge of adhesion in most of the section starting wtih corner 5 and ending back on the straight. the only time I can hear you pushing it is in 1-2-3-4.

Critiqued by time stamp:

0:09 you should be back on the gas at this point in this corner. gas helps with stability and keeps your corner speed up. you should also adjust your line so you do not track out so far so early. remember this section of the track is crowned, and imo there are 2 completely different lines here that are both correct. Both start the corner on the edge of the track on the left, both apex similar, but one tracks out all the way to the left (and if you run this line you should be gasing the hell out of your car during the corner, especially because you have a low powered RWD car. This keeps the speed up and helps with stability shifting weight over the drive tires), and the other exits the track on the right side of the centerline shortening the distance traveled as well as avoiding the off camber section of this track. IMO which line is correct is car dependent, and strategy dependent. I personally run both in the same car and have not noticed a difference in times following a similar car in this section.

0:13: you ran the wide line...... but you are going way too slow here. carry more speed into here and brake harder and later. you have a very lazy way of braking into this corner, meaning you are losing time by going too slow too early. Also, a side effect is the cars weight distribution is relatively flat, which is great in fast sweepers, but terrible in this corner. You want to brake later and harder to load up the front with wieght, and then release the pedal a split second after you turn in for corner 8. This will make your back end very light and rotate your car hard, helping you turn very quickly in this corner with weight transfer. You stop the rotation by feeding gas, and you make corrections to prevent spinning out with the steering wheel. Feeding the gas early = more exit speed = faster. 8 is not a carrying speed corner, it is a get on the gas early for the 'straight' corner.

0:18 track out is ok. you do not need to track out all the way to the edge of the track here, but you could... this section is tricky because it's not long enough to set up properly for corner 9 (the left hander) for a lot of cars if you exit 8 all the way on the left.

as soon as you exit 8 you need to get back over to the right way more then you are to setup for 9 also.

corner 9 10 combo: for combo corners you should always work your way back from the last corner if you want to understand what line you should run. corner 10 you want to exit with as much speed as possible because it exits onto a straight. to do this you need to exit as far left on the track as possible, and hit the apex..... obviously. However, to hit the fastest speed on exit you also need to use as much track as possible, and that means you need to start the corner on the edge of the track. Therefore you should be starting corner 10 on the very left of the track, and that means you need to exit corner 9 on the very left of the track, and that means you need to change your arc going into 9 so you can accomplish that. that means your apex and track out are very close to each other. You should be also going straight for a tiny bit before you turn in for corner 10 to let the car's weight distribution settle to a more neutral level (all your weight being on the right side of the vehicle and then violently shifting it all the way to the left hinders corner grip).

basically at 0:22 you should be on the left side of the track heading straight for hte turn in point of 10. At 0:23 I cringe as you lazily turn in for 10, basically make it so your car's actual turn in point is closer to the rigth side of the track than the left completely robbing you of all the corner speed you could of had here. At 0:24 you miss the apex slightly. Hard to guess from that video but i'd say 9-12 inches minimum. It matters.

0:32 your line into the kink isn't terrible, you exit it well, but imo you're driving it medium speed in medium speed out and you completely miss the first most important apex. It's way better than a lot of people's fast in slow out style... but you're on the gas too late for me, and it seems like you're not really pushing in it. You downshift easily in it, and I question if you are already that good as to heel and toe that under braking and high g-force..... or if you were going so slow it wasn't a challenge. at 0:33 you should be on the rumble strips on the right, kissing their edge at the very least. you're over a foot away. Get closer to the right, and try to get on the power more and earlier.

0:49. do not coast in corner 1. Either flat foot it if you have no power and enough grip (not many cars)... or brake, turn in, and get on the gas again instantly (for stability, and corner speed). Then track out all the way to the left while hard on the brakes for corner 2 to induce rotation just like corner 8. You should be on the gas in corner 2 miles before the apex. You also missed the apex in corner 2, one of the most vital corners to not miss the apex (you're exiting onto a straight, any fuck up in the corner translates into a huge time loss compounded down the entire straight).

1:00ish. you turn in about a full second too late here. you should turn in early and get down low into this corner right at the start, hug the low line, and track out normally to the edge of the track at the apex. That apex cone in the video looks like it is in the wrong spot. imo you hit the apex here, but your corner speed is also pretty low. race cars with good grip will take this corner without dipping below 100kph no problem. street cars shouldn't need to dip below 90kph unless they are on crap tires. I drove a students enterprise rental dodge charger around that corner without dipping as low as you did. If I remember right even my student got it up to not dipping below 85 by the end of the weekend. You dip to 82. you should be able to go faster, and from the sounds of your tires you can. get down low and feed the gas until it starts pushign up the track and then let off slightly/feed it more as need be.

1:15 you get this corner all wrong. at 1:15 your right wheel should be left of the center line of the track. You should then be on the gas well before the apex here as well, hit the apex, and track out to the edge of the track. If you are not tracking out to the wall you did not get the power down soon enough in this corner. at 1:17 you should probably be heavy on the gas at this point, I know I am usually at or close to WOT at this point but my car has less power.

1:30 painfully slow here. You know I take this corner at probably 20kph faster than you in my street car. My race car is probably close to 30kph faster (you dip to 105kph ish) Either you are racing on old hockey puck tires, or you can go a lot faster.. and I know you can go a lot faster because you take corner 6 at almost the same speed. Corner 6 is actually a fair bit slower than corner 5 (watch most people's videos and you'll see 10kph or so difference).

IMO you're only hitting 125kph by the time you get to this corner, so you probably do not even need to brake. You probably only need to lift and turn in, and then get back on the gas for stability. You should attempt to 4 wheel drift this corner losing adhesion with all 4 tires and having it push out the track when you feed a bit too much gas (you control this by the steering wheel to shave off grip in the front, or feeding less gas to stop it pushing out) Remember your goal here is to exit this corner on the far left to get the best setup possible for 6, but you should be able to do this corner at about 120-125kph in a street car depending on your tires. Also, you probably have to brake slightly for corner 6 and you most definitely need to let the car settle for a fraction of a second to neutralize teh weight distribution.... and then turn in for 6. 6 if you do properly you should be touching dirt on the right and touching dirt on the left (remember to work backwards from the last corner to the first for how to develop a line for it, just like corner 9-10). This IMO is possibly the most significant corner for shaving time off because of how long the straight is, and how hard it is to gain kph back at 120kph +. When someone in front of me doesn't take this corner correct, I pass them like they are stopped even if they have 50hp more than me.

[Joe-G]

Originally posted by zhao


Any confusing bits ask for clarification.

You can go a lot faster in the back section. it seems your corner speed....

*snip



If this forum had a like/thank feature, I would abuse the hell out of it... Thanks for the analysis. Really changes my perspective on some of the corners.
:thumbsup:

[zhao]

Keep in mind you should take everything with a grain of salt also.

There is only one correct way to drive a car fastest (and no one has or ever will achieve driving a car as fast as it can go), but depending on the skill of the driver, some people may find different things faster for themselves. Context also plays a huge part in what someone says in reference to driving fast.

case and point; instructors always tell their students smooth is fast. That is correct to a point; in that being smooth with inputs is better than drifto duritoing the track and doing crazy inputs everywhere that scrubs speed.

However it is also a complete bullshit statement because on a higher tier level of driving, smooth is slow and far inferior.

I've always said there is 4 tiers of driving.

tier 1: The noob that drives at 10%-150%, completely random, completely clueless. This is everyone on their first track day. People usually stay here for awhile, and sometimes pure aggression takes them to a decent lap time with practice... but without understanding what they are doing they'll never be real fast imo. Instructing should be able to graduate even the most hopeless student from this level to the next tier... eventually.

tier 2: The driver who does exactly what every instructor likes to tell their student is best, aka the smooth driver. This driver drives at 80-95% pace. They fear the edge because they are constantly told smooth is fast and exceeding your grip is slow... and with looking at how much faster they are than a tier 1 driver, it seems correct and logical. Many people, including instructors, never ever graduate beyond this step.

tier 3: This is the edge of adhesion driver; they're operating a car at 99-101% constantly. Almost no one takes a car to this level imo because no one is ever told it is faster (it's not ever really talked about, and some who should don't even understand it's existence) but it's much faster. The logic here is the driver is constantly exceeding the level of grip and then correcting the car from crashing (constant steering corrections usually, or weight transfer corrections with pedal work) to feel out where the edge is, and to keep it at the edge. The tier 2 driver can't compete with this driver because the tier 2 driver has no bloody idea where the edge is.... and thus, you end up with some tier 2 drivers that look like they are doing everything correct, but are still slow because they think they're driving at 98% when in fact they could be 20% lower than that mark.

tier 4: the robot. A car is theoretically possible to be kept at 100% or at least 99.99% the entire time, given enough data, computed by a computer, and driven by a computer. It is impossible for a human to drive on this level, but a computer someday will blow the doors off the best a human can do. Because every minute fraction of a second variables are changing, it would be very hard to develop enough data collection to drive at this level.

So in conclusion, a tier 1 driver is slow because he is not smooth. a tier 2 driver is therefore faster because he is smooth. a tier 2 driver is slow because he is smooth. a tier 3 driver is therefore faster because he is not smooth. a tier 3 driver is slow because he is not smooth. a tier 4 driver is fast because he is smooth. Context changes a lot, and there are a lot of examples like that in racing, and unfortunately most instructors only ever talk on a tier 1 or tier 2 level for what is correct.


Always keep an open mind too. You never know where or who you can learn something from. Also never assume someone actually knows wtf they're talking about, including myself. Never assume you have nothing left to learn.

I'm without a doubt the most arrogant person I can think of (and also the most critical of my driving) on a race track around here. That alone is an arrogant statement lol. Lucky for me I can pretty much justify my arrogance real time, or i can fall back on my track records, trophies, laptimes, etc. I got my skill set by a lot of thinking things through logically, a fair bit of math, and pushing the hell out of myself with a lot of practice... but also by listening to anyone, even students, and never believing anything for it's face value until i've proved it one way or another. I'll try anyone's idea and go in with a mindset with lets try to prove this new idea works; lets try to understand why they think that is fast.

To be really fast you need to have an abnormal desire to win, and you need to keep an open mind. IMO the minute someone closes their mind off to learning is the minute they lost their competitive edge.

[Stuart]

One thing I would add to the great info from Zhao is that you should gather as much data as possible given your budget. Everything from video, to phone apps to full systems. Then talk to anybody who is in a similar car to you who is quicker and see if they will give you access to their data, most will in my experience. This is a good way to pick up good lots of time, even if you are only focusing on one corner at a time.

[JustinL]

Originally posted by Stuart
One thing I would add to the great info from Zhao is that you should gather as much data as possible given your budget. Everything from video, to phone apps to full systems. Then talk to anybody who is in a similar car to you who is quicker and see if they will give you access to their data, most will in my experience. This is a good way to pick up good lots of time, even if you are only focusing on one corner at a time.

I use a traqmate traqdash system. It is quite useful for analysis post event. I find it's even very accurate for lap times compared to the transponder. The GPS signal will trace out the circuit and let you split it into sectors to compare to optimum laps etc. A regular traqmate is good for lap times and the dash is handy for real time updates and for a car like mine with less than useful factory instruments. I also love seeing the little indicator for best lap.

[Joe-G]

What is your opinion on phone apps? Good for the weekend enthusiast?

I used Track Addicts last year, paid for Harrys Lap Timer (Grand Prix Edition) this year.

Waste of money?

[JustinL]

I have Harry's lap timer and I know some guys who use it all the time. It seems really good, especially if you use an external GPS antenna with it. If you have it, I'd say definitely make use of it.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I've never timed or filmed myself at Castrol.

I'll do that this year so y'all can criticize my driving.

[k1l4m]

bump, Friday is right around the corner!

[Boosted_TL]

Saturday / Sunday is also the NASCC Race School. Any one attending? I'll be there

[Zhao Kan]

Originally posted by Boosted_TL
Saturday / Sunday is also the NASCC Race School. Any one attending? I'll be there

Ill be there. What car are u driving.

[Joe-G]

Anyone else from Calgary making the drive up early tomorrow morning?

Beyond convoy?! :D

[Boosted_TL]

Originally posted by Zhao Kan


Ill be there. What car are u driving.

I've got an E46M3. Are you instructing?

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Ordered my brake pads and sway bar this evening so I should be ready late May for a couple lapping events :D

[Joe-G]

Originally posted by Boosted_TL


I've got an E46M3. Are you instructing?

Is this you?!

PwYTjD3ji18

[Boosted_TL]

Originally posted by Joe-G


Is this you?!

PwYTjD3ji18


Nope, not me! Today was a blast at the race school

[zhao]

Originally posted by Boosted_TL


I've got an E46M3. Are you instructing?

yup, I'm instructing a e30 and a stock NB miata.

[Boosted_TL]

Originally posted by zhao


yup, I'm instructing a e30 and a stock NB miata.

Black E30 sedan? If so, that's my sister and brother in law
I had the carbon swartz e46m3. Met a lot of great people and instructors!
Officially hooked

[Joe-G]

Finally! Was starting to feel discouraged that I wasn't getting any better/faster.... Almost a 2 sec difference since my last event :clap:

qAYgNgz9B8g

kWy-SayibAc

[Sorath]

2 seconds faster is huge joe! what did you change?

[Joe-G]

Originally posted by Sorath
2 seconds faster is huge joe! what did you change?

Corner 1 track out and more throttle, corner 3 wider entry, corner 4 mid/wide entry, corner 5 wot, corner 6 - also try to input more throttle, and I put a proper GT wing on the car.

I feel the wing really helps me carry more speed. Especially corner 7... I ways hated that corner, now it feels a little easy... the uneasy feeling has moved to corner 6 for me now, after increasing my corner speed for 5.

Hoping to get into 1:30 next event haha. :clap:

[Skyline_Addict]

Well done Joe

[EF9 Sedan]

I should probably create a new thread for this but...

I'm planning on going to my first track day on April 29. Anyone else planning on going?

Hopefully there are some more instructors that are attending. I've been put on a wait list until more instructors have signed up.