Tracking/Autocrossing voids insurance

[EF9 Sedan]

Just got off the phone with my insurance company. It appear your insurance is void if you participate in any track/Autocross event. I know that insurance won't provide you with any coverage if you were to wreck your car while you're at the track, however they told me if you participate in any sort of speed test or timed event it completely voids your insurance even after you leave the track and you're driving on public roads. If this is the case, how do people participate in these events and still have valid insurance when they're back on public roads?

Are there companies that are okay with you taking your car to the track occasionally?

[spike98]

Your insurance company is either very shitty or conning you. Either way, id switch.

[EF9 Sedan]

Originally posted by spike98
Your insurance company is either very shitty or conning you. Either way, id switch.

Recommendations on which company to consider?

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by EF9 Sedan


Recommendations on which company to consider?

Buzz Masked Bandit (Bill) @ Touchstone Insurance.

[Stuart]

Basically all policies I know about have similar clauses in them but little is known about active enforcement. (Masked Bandit can you verify this?)
There are two schools of thought on how to deal with this situation.
-First would be to just not tell your insurance company, which is what most people do. There have been rumors about rogue agents going to events and noting plates and cancelling associated policies but there has been little in the way of solid evidence of this happening.
-The second way is to cover your plate so this would not be an issue.

[HiTempguy1]

If the car doesn't need to be road legal, remove the plate for the event.

Why does your insurance company need to know what you do with your vehicle off public roadways? They don't. But if you are going to straight up tell them...

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

Sounds like AMA. I had the exact same problem, documented here 10 yrs ago. They didn't give a fuck. They just cancelled my policy after the last not at fault accident and said go elsewhere.

[reijo]

There are variations. Some companies will cover school days on a track, others not.

For the most part your insurance is void on a track. That is why ASN/FiA Canada brokers insurance for autox/autoslalom events and track events but it is limited to organizers/directors (liability) and if anyone hits something or, heaven forbid, someone. The insurance does not cover your car/vehicle.

E.g. say you hit a pole. Pole is covered but your car is not.

We have rules for course layouts in autox (distance to immoveable objects, worker stations etc.) and race tracks are designed with safety standards however, "things" can happen. For the most part they work but as you know, there is a certain amount of risk no matter what you do.

There has been attempted cases of fraud and they have been caught (Edmonton many years ago at an autox ... tried to claim a collision happened elsewhere and he got caught and the co. AMA I think, looked up all participants who were their clients and cancelled all their insurance). I don't think that was a wise move on their part but that is what they or some one person in their office did.

That participant committed fraud and got cancelled by the insurance co. and was also banned from all our competitions. That has happened across the border also with similar results.

Personally I have always been comfortable with the risk and especially in autox. The danger is supposed to be no more than driving on the street in theory. Sometimes there are limitations for a given location or track so it is a good idea to know what to do in case you do spin out of control in a bad area where you may hit something.....for instance "both feet in" to keep on the track, and even the timing of it etc. For myself over many years, I have had one incident of a wheel/tire breaking off. The wheel studs broke. But that was a strange one. Apparently it is good practice to change the studs every couple of years or so if you swap out wheels/tires often.....never mind overtorque and stretch the studs ...

Anyway ... I just accept I have no insurance other than the club liability and have no problem with that. Notably I don't get on the big track too often these days (no roll bar on a convertible which would add weight up high for autox).

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by EF9 Sedan
Just got off the phone with my insurance company. It appear your insurance is void if you participate in any track/Autocross event. I know that insurance won't provide you with any coverage if you were to wreck your car while you're at the track, however they told me if you participate in any sort of speed test or timed event it completely voids your insurance even after you leave the track and you're driving on public roads. If this is the case, how do people participate in these events and still have valid insurance when they're back on public roads?

Are there companies that are okay with you taking your car to the track occasionally?

I think whomever you were chatting with either didn't understand the situation or perhaps requires a bit more training. It's pretty simple really, crash at the track / event, you're on your own. Crash on the way to / from said event, you're fine. No different than driving to work the next day. The only thing I'm wondering about though is significant modifications to your car. Insurance companies get pretty pissy about major performance mods like aftermarket turbos / swaps / etc., but that restriction applies 365 days a year and has nothing to do with whether you're at the track or not.

[rage2]

Originally posted by reijo
Personally I have always been comfortable with the risk and especially in autox. The danger is supposed to be no more than driving on the street in theory. Sometimes there are limitations for a given location or track so it is a good idea to know what to do in case you do spin out of control in a bad area where you may hit something.....for instance "both feet in" to keep on the track, and even the timing of it etc.
Reading this, I miss the old AutoX's at Race City's oval where you guys would setup fairly close to the wall. I remember finding time on everyone else because I didn't care if I hit the wall and left no room for error. :rofl:

Back on topic, here's my post from 2004 on AMA, so I'm curious if OP is dealing with AMA and they're still that anal about anyone attending any track events.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/argh-insurance-suit-b-/showthread.php?s=&postid=564037#post564037


Originally posted by rage2
Oh my, another poor victim :(.

Man, I got owned by AMA last year because of this. They refused to renew my insurance, and I had to shop somewhere else last minute. Lesson learned though...

1. Don't tell them you take the car to the track. Ever.
2. If you go to the track, take your plates off.
3. Go street race, they'll cover you there, oddly enough. (Joking about going street racing, serious about them covering accidents from street racing).

Alberta Insurance is frickin' weird as hell. I heard AMA even went as far as attending an autocross event, taking plates down, finding any that are insured with them, and terminating their policies.
I ended up with TD MM and they've actually had zero problems insuring my modded cars over the years, as well as attend shows and track events. I would compile a booklet of all the modifications, pictures, receipts and they would insure it based on appraisal.

I'm actually still with them (and probably paying more than going with Masked Bandit) and stayed loyal with them because they insured absolutely every car I threw at them, even the silly HPF Turbo M3.

[94boosted]

One thing to be aware of specific to track days provided you're not running in timed competition i.e. Time Attack your insurance may actually still be valid.

http://www.trackjunkies.ca/insurance/

With track junkies 3/4 of the run groups are un-timed (no-transponder) so technically......

[Abeo]

Originally posted by rage2


I ended up with TD MM and they've actually had zero problems insuring my modded cars over the years, as well as attend shows and track events. I would compile a booklet of all the modifications, pictures, receipts and they would insure it based on appraisal.

I'm actually still with them (and probably paying more than going with Masked Bandit) and stayed loyal with them because they insured absolutely every car I threw at them, even the silly HPF Turbo M3.

I was on TD MM, and after you posted that a few years back, I called them asking if they insured modified cars. They said no, then flagged my file. I asked repeatedly, and they maintained that they didn't insure modified cars. When I called to cancel my insurance (for Touchstone), they asked why I was canceling... to which the customer rep said "oh yeah, we could have insured that!" :banghead:

so, ymmv

[soloracer]

Originally posted by EF9 Sedan
Just got off the phone with my insurance company. It appear your insurance is void if you participate in any track/Autocross event. I know that insurance won't provide you with any coverage if you were to wreck your car while you're at the track, however they told me if you participate in any sort of speed test or timed event it completely voids your insurance even after you leave the track and you're driving on public roads. If this is the case, how do people participate in these events and still have valid insurance when they're back on public roads?

Are there companies that are okay with you taking your car to the track occasionally?

I've seen you drive, and trust me it's not a speed test. Need me to talk to them on your behalf?


* Just teasing....I've never seen you drive *

[01RedDX]

.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

http://cscc.speedracer.ca/forums/cscc-discussion/vehicle-insurance-and-track-use/

[reijo]

New item!

You can get track and race car insurance here (posted at the SASC Forum):

http://forums.sascsolo.com/index.php/topic,393.0.html

R

[Sugarphreak]

...

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by Abeo


I was on TD MM, and after you posted that a few years back, I called them asking if they insured modified cars. They said no, then flagged my file. I asked repeatedly, and they maintained that they didn't insure modified cars. When I called to cancel my insurance (for Touchstone), they asked why I was canceling... to which the customer rep said "oh yeah, we could have insured that!" :banghead:

so, ymmv

:nut: similar story here

[reijo]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


It is too bad there isn't Autocross specific insurance that would cover damages over $3000 or something.

It isn't like there is a huge risk of that happening, so it could be packaged for an affordable price.

The 350$ a day thing is good for wheel to wheel racing, but for AutoX it should be maybe 600$ a year or something for cars under 30K.

Hmmm.... I suppose if you called them and asked ... I would not be surprised if they could do something since theoretially autox is no more dangerous than driving on the street ... perhaps safer.

R

[Zero102]

I was with TD MM and when I added my focus to my policy they asked what the purpose of it was, I told them "fun, maybe a little autocross" at which point they told me that autocross makes me a high risk driver and they can no longer insure me. I of course pressed further and they told me in no uncertain terms that if I so much as attend an event as a spectator that I am now a high risk driver and they will drop me immediately. Seriously.

Of course I told them never mind, I won't go to the events since having insurance is important. After that call we called Touchstone and moved over there as fast as we could.


I totally get that they would not cover anything that happens at an event, but to consider me high risk for attending an event, not even DRIVING at an event, is absolutely insane. :nut:

[reijo]

I used to be with Monnex many years ago (so called discount for engineers that really was not) and I noticed how they did business.....dropped them like a rock and will never consider going back to them whatsoever.

R

[LOLzilla]

Wait till you guys try to take out life insurance or disability insurance. There was a specific questionnaire for individuals that participate in motorsports. Weight of car, Hp/Torque, which tracks you frequent, etc.

[Redlyne_mr2]

AVOID TD AT ALL COSTS

[btimbit]

Originally posted by Abeo


I was on TD MM, and after you posted that a few years back, I called them asking if they insured modified cars. They said no, then flagged my file. I asked repeatedly, and they maintained that they didn't insure modified cars. When I called to cancel my insurance (for Touchstone), they asked why I was canceling... to which the customer rep said "oh yeah, we could have insured that!" :banghead:

so, ymmv

Similar here, not MM but regular TD. I asked a few times about modifications and never got a clear response. Asked about it again a month later and was told "we're waiting for our underwriters to get back to us" then got the same response 3 months later. Come renewal time I just cancelled instead.

That's what I love most about Touchstone. Ask a question, get an answer. No runaround. Talking to Darren or Bill is like talking to a friend that knows insurance really well. If the answer is a straight up no they'll just say no, and try to give you alternatives and find a solution.

[G-ZUS]

TD wanted to send me to Nordic because my Prelude was lowered and had an exhaust :rofl: :english: