Air cooled acquisition

[jaysas_63]

Been toying of the idea of an air cooled Porsche for a couple years, and during my e30 m3 hunt (which is still ongoing if you have any leads) I spotted this beauty. 1990 964 c2 5 speed, as stock as stock gets. Sounds like a dream. Anybody else following the air cooled market? Things seem to have exploded the past couple years. Seriously regretting not picking up other nice examples a couple years ago when prices were reasonable, and exchange rates were attractive.

http://s32.postimg.org/godeys9ph/20160503_124902.jpg

http://s32.postimg.org/nq6r78nxh/20160506_205534.jpg

http://s32.postimg.org/459e24cv9/20160508_125416.jpg

mod edit - fixed your images

[That.Guy.S30]

Unless you have a lot of extra cash I wouldn't bother. 964 have gained so much in the last few years. Minimum I would expect 40K for a rough condition 964.

[jaysas_63]

I already purchased it. I think there's room for growth. It will eventually catch up or get very close to the 993. They definitely gained a lot, but partly because they were so undervalued.

[Pacman]

The pictures don't seem to be working for me so I can't see what you bought.

I like 964's but missed the boat on them and earlier 911's 5 years ago. It wasn't that long ago that 10k bought you a nice 911SC and 16K got you a late 80's Carrera in great shape.

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by Pacman
The pictures don't seem to be working for me so I can't see what you bought.

I like 964's but missed the boat on them and earlier 911's 5 years ago. It wasn't that long ago that 10k bought you a nice 911SC and 16K got you a late 80's Carrera in great shape.

I feel like this is general to all collectable cars. I have been looking to get into the e30m3, first gen etype, and 190/280sl, along with air cooled pcars and in the past 5 years things just blew up. I'm guessing it's partly because of the strengthening economy down south. Also the finance industry is starting to see the growth. I've heard of some funds specializing in car collections.

Cars like the countach, pantera, 512tr, Ford gt have literally gone up multiples since 2009-10. I was still in school back then, so hands were unfortunately tied.

[rx7_turbo2]

I got lucky, market intelligence and car knowledge had nothing to do with it, pure luck. My 964 has doubled, even more than doubled if I drag it to The States. Although not the colour or variant I would have liked (Guards Red C4) I bought the lowest mileage, best condition car above everything else.

So whats my opinion on where it's going considering I fluked my way into this bubble?

Honestly, I think the mid to top tier of these cars, the ones kept stock, maintained well, reasonable Km's etc aren't going anywhere. For awhile there I thought we'd see a decline but I don't think that anymore. In fact I think they may even rise a bit from here. I think the rough 964's with a spotty service history that have enjoyed the recent bubble are going to see a drop if they haven't already.

The 964 has the "classic" look and they didn't make that many. With outfits like RWB, Singer (I see Walker has now built a 964) snatching them up it leaves even fewer in stock configuration.

The demand from overseas buyers hasn't dropped much either. I know someone who sold his RSA in Germany for what he described as an "obscene" amount of money, then offered to help me do the same lol. That again leaves less and less good 964's on this side of the pond.

For the time being I'll be hanging on to mine, not because I think the value is going to increase much but more because I enjoy driving it, and can't think of anything I could make a lateral move into that I'd enjoy more right now.

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
I got lucky, market intelligence and car knowledge had nothing to do with it, pure luck. My 964 has doubled, even more than doubled if I drag it to The States. Although not the colour or variant I would have liked (Guards Red C4) I bought the lowest mileage, best condition car above everything else.

So whats my opinion on where it's going considering I fluked my way into this bubble?

Honestly, I think the mid to top tier of these cars, the ones kept stock, maintained well, reasonable Km's etc aren't going anywhere. For awhile there I thought we'd see a decline but I don't think that anymore. In fact I think they may even rise a bit from here. I think the rough 964's with a spotty service history that have enjoyed the recent bubble are going to see a drop if they haven't already.

The 964 has the "classic" look and they didn't make that many. With outfits like RWB, Singer (I see Walker has now built a 964) snatching them up it leaves even fewer in stock configuration.

The demand from overseas buyers hasn't dropped much either. I know someone who sold his RSA in Germany for what he described as an "obscene" amount of money, then offered to help me do the same lol. That again leaves less and less good 964's on this side of the pond.

For the time being I'll be hanging on to mine, not because I think the value is going to increase much but more because I enjoy driving it, and can't think of anything I could make a lateral move into that I'd enjoy more right now.

I completley agree. Last of the air-cooled pcars with the classic lines. More of a visceral driving experience compared to the 993, but with more creature comforts and performance than the 3.2c

If you don't mind me asking how many kms on your car? What is considered "low mileage" enough to not scare away potential buyers on a 26 year old car? My only problem with it is I can't stop putting more damn miles on her, and I can't help but feel a little guilty:rofl:

[Pacman]

What does a decent, stock 964 C2 go for these days? I know the Turbo 3.3 and 3.6's, RSA's go for ridiculous money. The price of the RSA's screams "bubble about to burst" considering they really are not much different from a standard C2.

How much higher can SC's, 3.2's and 964's go up?

[rx7_turbo2]

Keeping in mind I'm no expert whatsoever.

There's a good thread on rennlist where people post their purchase prices. There are still guys out there finding "deals" but the general consensus is that if you can find a good clean car for mid $30kUSD you should snatch it up. The asking price for most cars is mid to low $40k's with the really nice cars sometimes getting to $50k. The C2 variant seems to bring a little more money with the tiptronic generally commanding less.

Personally I think the RSA prices are nutty. $100kUSD easily, $125kUSD possible, even a basket case might bring $90k. The car I mentioned earlier went for somewhere around $150kUSD, keeping in mind it was already in Germany at the time as the owner has a vacation house there and had imported the car. The Speedster variants reach that $150k mark as well which is hilarious because when they were new literally nobody wanted them.

How much higher can the standard 964's go? I think the crappy examples drop back to low-mid $20's, I see the really nice stock examples reach and will stay at high$40's and $50k.

Mine has just under 70k kms. It changed hands a couple times in Calgary, but the guy I bought it from was a super anal German guy that kept it stock and did all regular maintenance. He only had it serviced at 1 independent shop by one specific mechanic, even though that mechanic is now "retired" by another stroke of luck I'm still able to get him to service the car, meaning for the past 15 years it's only his stamp in the book for scheduled maintenance. The only thing I've swapped out is the steering wheel, 89 was a non airbag car so it's easy to swap back, if I was selling, considering I'm not desperate to sell it? I'd bring it down to a family members place in Palm Springs and ask $50kUSD, if it sold great, if not great. I'd like to do a lateral move into a 996tt but those have risen as well. My wife much prefers the "classic" look she doesn't give a shit about my "but the 996tt is way faster" argument so she has no interest in selling.

[jaysas_63]

I picked mine up for a fair price, by the time you include BC sales tax on private sales it got to the high 40k CAD range. I know the seller (within 3 hours of it being posted) had multiple full price offers, mostly from dealerships, sending him uninvited etransfers for a deposit.

I have a hard time believing even the crappy examples would trade hands again in the low 20's, as I'm seeing salvage titles being bought for low 30s down south. Seems like dealerships are definitely responsible for the market keeping momentum, as they snatch and stash any reasonably priced example keeping the market artificially strong. With low production number cars like these, before Porsche started really banging them out, I don't think we'll ever see a huge supply to the market bringing prices back down. At least I hope:rofl:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by jaysas_63
I picked mine up for a fair price, by the time you include BC sales tax on private sales it got to the high 40k CAD range. I know the seller (within 3 hours of it being posted) had multiple full price offers, mostly from dealerships, sending him uninvited etransfers for a deposit.

I have a hard time believing even the crappy examples would trade hands again in the low 20's, as I'm seeing salvage titles being bought for low 30s down south. Seems like dealerships are definitely responsible for the market keeping momentum, as they snatch and stash any reasonably priced example keeping the market artificially strong. With low production number cars like these, before Porsche started really banging them out, I don't think we'll ever see a huge supply to the market bringing prices back down. At least I hope:rofl:

I hope you're right as well. I mentioned I flunked into this situation I really don't know, I was basing my numbers on what I've seen on rennlist and the classifieds in Panorama. There's been all kinds of rumours around Singer snatching up every car they can as well. Makes sense given their tooling is all set for use with the 964. If that's the case those cars will never see the road as a 964 again, further lowering the supply. If I think I can get $60kUSD I don't know if I can justify owning the car at that price.

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


I hope you're right as well. I mentioned I flunked into this situation I really don't know, I was basing my numbers on what I've seen on rennlist and the classifieds in Panorama. There's been all kinds of rumours around Singer snatching up every car they can as well. Makes sense given their tooling is all set for use with the 964. If that's the case those cars will never see the road as a 964 again, further lowering the supply. If I think I can get $60kUSD I don't know if I can justify owning the car at that price.

You're right, singer is paying 25-30usd for clean titles. My car has higher mileage than yours (hence the purchase price) albeit very well maintained, documented, and in great condition. A 45k mi car is a rarity. Guards red isn't a problem, but the c4 isn't ideal. I think you could easily get 50k USD, 60 you might have to wait. I'm going based on what I've seen trade hands on rennlist and pelican parts

[That.Guy.S30]

I'll sell mine for 50k USD or straight trade for 997.1 turbo :rofl: :rofl:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by jaysas_63


You're right, singer is paying 25-30usd for clean titles. My car has higher mileage than yours (hence the purchase price) albeit very well maintained, documented, and in great condition. A 45k mi car is a rarity. Guards red isn't a problem, but the c4 isn't ideal. I think you could easily get 50k USD, 60 you might have to wait. I'm going based on what I've seen trade hands on rennlist and pelican parts

Shit I haven't looked at rennlist for awhile! There are 2 964's their asking over $60kUSD, and one is like $47USD. Wow. Hmmmmmmm.

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by That.Guy.S30
I'll sell mine for 50k USD or straight trade for 997.1 turbo :rofl: :rofl:

If your yours has less than 50k mi I really don't think that's a unreasonable offer. I saw higher sales in the last couple months. But if you double the mileage price drops sharply, regardless of condition.


Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Shit I haven't looked at rennlist for awhile! There are 2 964's their asking over $60kUSD, and one is like $47USD. Wow. Hmmmmmmm.

Things have definitely gotten crazy!

[ragu]

Nice buy. Where did you find it?

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by ragu
Nice buy. Where did you find it?

Thanks! The hours of Craigslist creeping finally amounted to something :rofl:

[flipstah]

Mmm nice buy! Let's chat if you want to sell your wheels.

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by flipstah
Mmm nice buy! Let's chat if you want to sell your wheels.

You looking for pcar wheels?

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by That.Guy.S30


You looking for pcar wheels?
17x7.5 Porsche Cup wheels are on my hitlist too

http://wordpress.carthrottle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/favcars.com_.jpg

[That.Guy.S30]

I have a staggered set. 17x7.5 and 17x9 replicas. I think cup 2.

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by flipstah
Mmm nice buy! Let's chat if you want to sell your wheels.

Thanks man! Looking to keep her as stock as possible:burnout:

[flipstah]

Originally posted by That.Guy.S30


You looking for pcar wheels?

Yup, something to fit the 928 with. The 16s are okay, but maybe there's a good deal out there for 'modernized' wheels

http://www.roadsmile.com/images/porsche-928-54_key_6.jpg

:love: :drool: :poosie:

[Redlyne_mr2]

I know of a 3.6 964 turbo that's going to be up for sale shortly.

[Pacman]

Originally posted by jaysas_63


Thanks man! Looking to keep her as stock as possible:burnout:

Aren't the wheels on your car from a 993?

I thought the correct wheels for your car would be the design 90's or the 17" cup wheels.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Pacman
Aren't the wheels on your car from a 993?

I thought the correct wheels for your car would be the design 90's or the 17" cup wheels.

I've got D90's on mine (89') I hated them at first, they've really grown on me, get the stance right with ride height and some spacers and I think they look good.

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by Pacman


Aren't the wheels on your car from a 993?

I thought the correct wheels for your car would be the design 90's or the 17" cup wheels.

I thought these are the 17" cup wheels? I knew the 90s should have came stock for a 1990 production year, but these should still be correct to the 964? The 993 had the cup II which were a little different.
http://postimg.org/image/uf23rqewh/full/

Edit: you'd think after over 10 years of being a member I'd know how to post a picture:rofl:

[rx7_turbo2]

The wheels on your car look like cup 2's to me not cup 1's.

[jaysas_63]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
The wheels on your car look like cup 2's to me not cup 1's.

That's too bad, I thought everything was stock. The PPI didn't catch it either. Nice spot guys! Looks like I'm in the market for some wheels now lol

[01RedDX]

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[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Wow that is so nice! Even if I could afford any 964 I think I would still want the C2. The AWD on the C4 was their first ever production version, so the C2 actually has more nimble handling, while being simpler and more reliable maintain. Can't think of another classic I'd want to own as much as this one.

To be honest unless you're on a track you'd be hard pressed to experience any real difference in C2vC4. I've driven them back to back to back on some twisty roads, pop on over to rennlist couple of long threads discussing this. Concern over the reliability of the awd system has proven to be a non issue as well. Very few problems, are there more moving parts and sensors that could go wrong? Yes, and you'll find very few that do, but the vast majority basically live their life problem free.

The C2 is certainly considered the "purists" car, and prices represent that. However a lot of the marks against the C4 started when the vehicle was released and Porsche claimed that it's "85%" new. It scared people, the awd system carrying the brunt of that fear. Time proved most of that fear to be unfounded. The truth is the biggest issues in the 964 are electrical, and shared by both the C2 and C4.

[01RedDX]

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