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BloodBaneZXY
03-17-2004, 09:48 PM
Heard my share of arguments for/against creatine/protein ....what's your guys input and why? Does anyone use it, and noticed significant side-effects..or what?

JordanLotoski
03-17-2004, 09:52 PM
id say creatine alone isnt the greatest suppliment u can use...specially if its the GMC crap.....what u looking to do...gain weight....what are your goals man..that will help me out a lil more

sxtasy
03-17-2004, 09:54 PM
creatine AND protein use both. If your worried about any health issue's I believe creatine is somewhat unhealthy, protein should be fine

Wildcat
03-17-2004, 10:10 PM
do a search newb, thers lots of topics on this discussion...

illeagle
03-17-2004, 10:20 PM
creatine keeps the water that keeps your muscles big
Protine, helps speed up repair and helps grow muscles after ripping them while working out. Creatine and protine are expensive, but if you wanna get big, train properly, and eat a meal every 2 hours..

You'll notice after a work out your rock hard, then the next day your ams asleep again, well, supplements help keep your muscles "angry / hard" <--lol, anyone know exactly which supplements do this?

YCB
03-17-2004, 10:22 PM
take both.. why not...

you can take this stuff called V12 by SAN, or V2 by swole, or NOS, its a advanced creatine, gives u great pumps, follow that with protien after your work out..

SwitchBlade
03-17-2004, 11:17 PM
^^^^ u take both and you create Poutine.....
very bad combination ;)

JordanLotoski
03-17-2004, 11:18 PM
creatine and glutimain (spelling) is a far better combo

Wildcat
03-17-2004, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by SIRCANADA
creatine and glutimain (spelling) is a far better combo

most already come with glutamine

YCB
03-17-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by SwitchBlade
^^^^ u take both and you create Poutine.....
very bad combination ;)

why is it a bad combo?

JordanLotoski
03-17-2004, 11:22 PM
then just take a cell tech or loader.....i dunno what thbis gusy looking to do...id go on 1-tu..but thats me.....creatine is just a lil icing on the cake when your taking the TU

Impreza
03-17-2004, 11:29 PM
what exactly does glutamine do? I heard it does sometihng like prevent u from burning ur muscles for energy or something? haha, i dunno, please fill me in on glutamine

YCB
03-17-2004, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Impreza
what exactly does glutamine do? I heard it does sometihng like prevent u from burning ur muscles for energy or something? haha, i dunno, please fill me in on glutamine

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/glutamine2.htm

Impreza
03-17-2004, 11:41 PM
thx! what brand of glutamine do you guys recommend?

is it like a protein shake? like really think? or is it more like a powder like creatine mixed in juice(not think at all)?

davidI
03-17-2004, 11:47 PM
I haven't heard many good things about glutamine. Remember that link is to a site selling it...

Creatine and Protein are good in my book. Just mix your creatine with some dextrose so you get an incilin (sp?) spike.

Impreza
03-18-2004, 12:05 AM
ya, i just mix my creatine with dextrose and gatorade powder and add water! cheap and it works! who needs cell-tech! haha

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:19 AM
LIke how much weight do u put on a year.

Naa beginners shouldnt take roids. U need a clue about what it does n what u need to do

Wildcat
03-18-2004, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by civic_rida
U wanna get big u gotta do more than creatine , n glutamine , n protein .


Whoope dee dooo u will gian like 2 pounds a month or more at first cuz of the water retention .

you saying he should take steroids?

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 12:23 AM
yeah sure...why the hell not....lol...there are a ton of other things you can do...like i mentioned above...that is about 100times better then creatine

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:25 AM
How tall r u ? Ur stats will determine how much u need to weigh look big.

Impreza
03-18-2004, 12:32 AM
so what is a good glutamine ppl???

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:35 AM
glutamine is for muscle recovery .

I would just take some powder stuff, dont worry about the brand.

It wont aid in gaining much .. Maybe it will help u gain like a 5 pounds in a year if that.

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 12:35 AM
mmmmmm powder stuffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 12:37 AM
this is the best shit on the market right now ...sold over the counter in the states
http://images.netrition.com/images/Nutrex1TU.jpg

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:37 AM
Oh ya n watch out for SIR CANADA hes huge :eek: 200 pounder.



Oh n the product above. When u hear about the side effects, and the fact u cant drink alchoal , n the loss in libido ahahahaha.

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 12:38 AM
watch it ill crush all 137 pounds of you

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:45 AM
157 . 5 pounds lean mass in 2 weeks :)

Wildcat
03-18-2004, 12:45 AM
^how tall r u SIR?

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 12:48 AM
6 feet

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:48 AM
a little shorter than u tyler. Probably like 6 feet flat.

liquid1010
03-18-2004, 12:49 AM
how much muscle can a person gain in a month? I'm working out 3 to 4 times a week, for about an hour each time.... pretty hard. How much sheer muscle mass can I gain?

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:50 AM
Avg bodybuilder if ur natural is 2 pounds lean mass.

When u bulk u gain fat n shit so its more than 2 pounds. But if u bulk u should cut afterwards so u dont look to fat.

liquid1010
03-18-2004, 12:54 AM
Yea... I have trouble straight bulking up cause I play sports so often, so that's alot of cardio. I've only been working out hard for about 7-8 weeks.... and I've gained about 4-5 pounds. Just wondering if that's normal, or below normal.

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:55 AM
its so hard to gain weight for people who are usually skinny, especially if u wanna gain witout losing the sight of ur abs.

Wildcat
03-18-2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by SIRCANADA
6 feet

thats pretty good, ive worked my way up to 200 and im 6'3", im hoping to be as close to 210 as possible by the end of the semester

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:56 AM
u should cut dude u will look bigger if u where more ripped.

Wildcat
03-18-2004, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by civic_rida
u should cut dude u will look bigger if u where more ripped.

who me? or this liquid guy?

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 12:59 AM
200 ripped would look big. vin diesel is like 225 n 6'2 .

liquid1010
03-18-2004, 12:59 AM
Here's a question. My abs suck... what kind of ab excercises should I be doing? I do crunches, and incline sit-ups.... but whats a good muscle building ab excersize using weights, or some kind of resistance?

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 01:01 AM
roman situps man......work abs once a week...doing 4 sets of 15 and your abs will be tight

Wildcat
03-18-2004, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by SIRCANADA
roman situps man......work abs once a week...doing 4 sets of 15 and your abs will be tight


whats roman situps?

liquid1010
03-18-2004, 01:02 AM
Roman sit-ups? How exactly do you do those?

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 01:03 AM
u need to do it ona flat bench....so your actually doing it in a decline..wit no support of the bench.....i need a belt to hold your feet down

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 01:03 AM
i dont do much ab work maybe like 3 sets a week. Decline wit a weight on my chest.


low body fat is key.

liquid1010
03-18-2004, 01:05 AM
LOL.... you just wanted to post a pic of yourself. J/K

Wildcat
03-18-2004, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by SIRCANADA
u need to do it ona flat bench....so your actually doing it in a decline..wit no support of the bench.....i need a belt to hold your feet down

come again?, you do decline situps with a weight? on an inverted bench or what?

davidI
03-18-2004, 01:07 AM
I can't believe some of you guys are saying this guy should use 1-Test or the like. Seriously man, you've gotta build up your base naturally and be in your mid-20's before you should even consider that shit....unless you don't care about messing up your health in the long run. Honestly, do some research before you listen to some of these guys. :rolleyes:

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 01:07 AM
no man......get a bench press........tie a belt around part of the bench.....lock your feet in it.......your ass has to be located right at the edge of the bench.....when u do the sit up...u actually are in a decline position..but dont have the suport of the bench..makes sense?

Wildcat
03-18-2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by SIRCANADA
no man......get a bench press........tie a belt around part of the bench.....lock your feet in it.......your ass has to be located right at the edge of the bench.....when u do the sit up...u actually are in a decline position..but dont have the suport of the bench..makes sense?

gotchya, sounds good, but i think my big ass will tilt over the bench unless i get a friend to sit on it :rofl:

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by davidI
I can't believe some of you guys are saying this guy should use 1-Test or the like. Seriously man, you've gotta build up your base naturally and be in your mid-20's before you should even consider that shit....unless you don't care about messing up your health in the long run. Honestly, do some research before you listen to some of these guys. :rolleyes:


this guy has never stated his age.....4 weeks of 1-tu isnt gonna aeffect your health....iam almost done 4 weeks...i havnt had any side effects..and as far as long term....sure prolonge use of any substace your gonna have some side effects....the 1-tu is pretty safe...read up on it man

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 01:10 AM
Why if ur educated why do u think roids n pro hormones are so bad.

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by Wildcat


gotchya, sounds good, but i think my big ass will tilt over the bench unless i get a friend to sit on it :rofl:


thats why u need the belt man...to lock your feet in...its really easier then it sounds...well hurts like a bicth....

JordanLotoski
03-18-2004, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by civic_rida
Why if ur educated why do u think roids n pro hormones are so bad.


there are alot of anibolics that will kill yeah..but the 1-tu is pretty safe...

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 01:13 AM
Man u say pro hormones are bad as u slam back alchoal every weekend. N who knows the amount of people on this site who may do other drugs that are way more harmful to ur body than roids.

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 01:15 AM
I think i explained post cycle recovery to u sircanada. N whoopedeedoo ur taking like 100mg of that stuff people on muscle forums are talking about 300mg doses and gettin no side effects.

nosegrindR
03-18-2004, 01:38 AM
take protein and creatine if you wanna get big.
protein after your workout and creatine before, if you take creatine without anything it takes longer to see results.

if you don't see results, just take roids, so what you're weird for 6 weeks.

davidI
03-18-2004, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by SIRCANADA



this guy has never stated his age.....4 weeks of 1-tu isnt gonna aeffect your health....iam almost done 4 weeks...i havnt had any side effects..and as far as long term....sure prolonge use of any substace your gonna have some side effects....the 1-tu is pretty safe...read up on it man

You are right about the age bit. At the same time though, this guy is asking about protein and creatine....he probably doesn't have enough of a foundation to be taking any anabolic supplements or pro hormones. I'm happy you haven't had any side effects but really 100mg and a 4 week cycle isn't that much to see side effects. I have tried to do a lot of research into the Nutrex 1-Tu that you posted but all I'm seeing is claims made by Nutrex and the companies selling Nutrex that it does not damage the liver or allow estrogen conversion. Those are pretty substantial claims and I am interested in seeing some medical studies supporting them because that may give me an entirely new outlook on the product. Hopefully you can share some links so I can check it out but until then I'm still a disbeliever. Personally, I feel that you should definately maximize on the natural gains you can make before you start toying with hormone balance but that's just me.

Civic_Rida....I never said I was super educated on prohormones or steroids because I have never researched them that intensely since I am not at the stage where I would use any of them. From the knowledge I have gained though and through talking to a lot of buddies I have learned a few thigns though. I'm not sure how you're the steroid guru since don't look like you've had any personal experience with roids. It's awesome if you know a lot about them but I still don't see how it's something you should be suggesting to an obvious beginner. Anyways, here's a link that will describe some of the problems I've had buddies tell me about http://www.steroidtruth.com/steroid_side_effects.htm

Obviously not all of these happen to everyone but I have known a lot of guys who get bad acne, get hairy, gyno and weak immune systems. A lot of the problems (Liver, Kidney etc.) I haven't heard about cause most of my friends are still too young to notice these problems. The biggest problem I've heard about is the increase in estrogen levels and the decrease in natural test produced post-cycle. If everything about 1-Tu that is claimed is true then it could definately be sweet but I'm hoping SIR can hook me up with some studies instead of just what the manufacture tells everyone!

I'm not trying to come off as a prick or a guy who knows everything because I definately don't....I'd just hate to see some dude fuck up his body over bad advice. I think AS and PH are good for certain people (SIRCANADA sounds like he has a good base) but in my opinion it's definately not something that people should begin with.

davidI
03-18-2004, 01:57 AM
Here are some references I was told to look at on another forum when posing a similar question about 1-Test but I haven't bothered to look into them yet. The guy did a paper on them and basically told me that unless you're mid-20's or have peaked naturally it's not worth it. This is coming from a guy who used for many years....

1. Alen, M., P. Rahkila. Anabolic-androgenic steroid effects on endocrinology and lipid metabolism in athletes. Sports Med. 6: 327-332, 1988

2. American College of Sports Medicine. Position stand on the use of anabolic-androgenic steroids in sport. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 19(5): 534-539, 1987

3. Bahrke, M.S., C.E. Yesalis, J.E. Wright. Psychological and behavioral effects of endogenous testosterone levels and anabolic-androgenic steroids among athletes; a review. Sports Med. 10(5): 303-337, 1990

4. Cohen, J.C., R. Hickman. Insulin resistance and diminished glucose tolerance in power lifters ingesting anabolic steroids. J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. 64: 960-963, 1987

5. De Piccoli, B., F. Giada, A. Benettin, F. Sartori, E. Piccolo. Anabolic steroid use in body builders: an echocardiographic study of left ventricular morphology and function. Int. J. Sports Med. 12(4): 408-412, 1991

6. Haupt, H.A. Anabolic steroids and growth hormone. Am. J. Sports Med. 21(3): 468-474, 1993

7. Wilson, J.D. Androgen abuse in athletes. Endocr. Rev. 9(2): 181-199, 1988

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 02:07 AM
After u've finished the cycle, take a anti estergon so that natural levels can be increased n estergon decreased.

buddy of mine is gettin wicked gains from roids n hes my age so tempting, just dont like the whole needle idea.

As u know oral steriods arent that great cuz of the low absorption .

1-tu is pretty good except really expensive. I think SIRCANADA gained 10 pounds so far. To keep gains a post cycle is recommended wit increase in calories.

Pro hormone guru but not steriods Stil learning , pretty complex stuff.

davidI
03-18-2004, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by civic_rida
As u know oral steriods arent that great cuz of the low absorption .
Pro hormone guru but not steriods Stil learning , pretty complex stuff.

Oral steroids also arent' that great because they screw your liver hardcore....that's why I'm interested in why 1-Tu wouldn't do this.

Have you done any PH's Civic_rida?


Oh, and how old are you? If you're under 19-20 then your test levels should already be pretty damn high and definately shouldn't need any sort of AAS. From your picture I'd suggest upping your calorie intake (more protein and carbs).

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 02:16 AM
yea i weighed like 10 pounds less in that pic

davidI
03-18-2004, 02:17 AM
I found these references on a website which stated the claims that 1-Tu was safe and didn't cause liver toxicity go through enzymatic breakdown of androgen over time:
References:
1.Plasma androgens after a single oral dose of testosterone undecanoate Arch Dis Child 1980 Mar;55(3):218-20
2.A ten-year safety study of the oral androgen testosterone undecanoate J Androl 1994 May-Jun;15(3): 212-5
3.Treatment of anorchia with oral testosterone undecanoate: Pharmacodynamics and clinical effectiveness Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1980 Oct;95(2):244-50

There were other claims but the liver problems and estrogen production were the two I was most interested in since most oral steroids cause these problems. After checking out the second reference (which pertains the most to these claims) I found out that it was a study of 33 men who needed to up there testosterone levels. The flaw in this study as it applies to bodybuilders however is that all of the men in the study still had testosterone levels less than in the normal range even though they were taking a testosterone undecanoate. This means that these guys were being given the androgen as a testosterone therapy.....not as a muscle building supplement. They were still below the normal range so why would they have any of the problems associated with high test levels? As stated by Gooren "Upon annual measurements (7-9 hours after ingestion of testosterone undecanoate), serum levels of testosterone ranged between 5.4 +/- 1.9 and 6.5 +/- 1.9 nmol/L (normal range 8-24)". So basically - as suspected, the claims by Nutrex are likely false since no actual research into it has been done. I can't believe I just spent all of that time looking into this but I'd hate to see my tax money going to repair some dudes liver since he listened to some of the guys on this forum :tongue:

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 02:20 AM
This is all prolonged use. LIke one 4 week cycle wont kill anyone, especially if ur not doin high doses.

civic_rida
03-18-2004, 02:23 AM
david check ur pm .

ecstasy_civic
03-18-2004, 04:36 PM
4 and 6 week cycles??
man
I look at 8-10week cycles and think thats just right.

Maybe with different stuff:dunno:

Oral gear is so hard on your liver, just like DavidI said.
and the anit-estrogen you talk about civic rida, Proviron, Novaldex, Clomid.

Personally, Novaldex and Clomid have shown the best results :thumbsup:

Wildcat
03-18-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by civic_rida
After u've finished the cycle, take a anti estergon so that natural levels can be increased n estergon decreased.

buddy of mine is gettin wicked gains from roids n hes my age so tempting, just dont like the whole needle idea.

As u know oral steriods arent that great cuz of the low absorption .


whos taking it, is it someone i know? pm me

BIGTEXFAN
05-05-2004, 09:11 PM
creatine is a nonessential amino acid. (amino acids are the building blocks of protein) 9 essential amino acids are in a complete protein. i would reccomend POS2. it has increased my bench 75 pounds to 205 pounds. squat increased 140 pounds to 375 and deadlift increased 65 pounds to 400 pounds. i am 15 and 149 pounds btw

BIGTEXFAN
05-05-2004, 09:13 PM
i meant i have had a 75 pound 140 pound and 65 pound increase...that is NOT where i started from

Wildcat
05-05-2004, 10:27 PM
whats POS2?

BIGTEXFAN
05-06-2004, 07:18 PM
POS2 stands for performance optimizer system. it is from Advocare. our coach makes us take it and everybody is geting seriously strong now. a bunch of NFL teams are on the entire line of POS. pos2 is the best for you in increasing muscle mass. it has 2 grams of creatine for a total of 12 grams of protein. it has 1670% of your daily value of vitamin B12 which increases your appetite. it has helped me a lot

dkny_stylez
05-07-2004, 08:47 AM
none, all natural is the key:D

apitchtackleap
08-11-2004, 10:24 PM
ok, i wanna be stronger pitching and hitting for baseball, i have considered POS2, and I have taken creatine before.. but with creatine, i stopped and gained fat %... what performance enhancer would make me throw harder and hit better?