Alberta Provincial Politics - Unite the right - discussions

[RealJimmyJames]

So it looks like Jason Kenny will be running for leadership of the Alberta Progressive Conservatives under the banner of uniting with the Wild Rose Party in some form.

Can someone tell me why this is different than Jim Prentice? I always figured he lost because he appeared to be blatantly seeking power. He too swept in from Ottawa, tried to unite the two parties. Is Jason Kenny's situation that much different?

I'm not even sure if uniting those two parties is fundamentally possible, let alone if it's a good idea and would result in an election win. I mean, I like burgers, and I like pizza, but I'd never order that pizza-burger monstrosity they have on the menu at Boston's. :dunno:

Can anyone explain all this to me?

[RealJimmyJames]

https://petenowak2000.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/boston-pizza-pizzaburger.jpg

[finboy]

I have to agree, Kenney is very much a Harper conservative, and I think the only way the conservatives can win back votes is to ditch the batshit socially conservative ideas of the wild rose and stick to fiscal conservatism. I wouldn't put Harper's government in the "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" camp, so I don't see what the strategy is here.

[01RedDX]

.

[finboy]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
That pizza burger actually looks good.

But this is more like a crusty old bologna sandwich combined with a stale 7-11 hotdog.

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/08/67/6a/f9/rosenfeld-s-jewish-delicatesse.jpg

Popular enough back in the day but well past their prime and even less palatable when combined.

Ftfy

[Sugarphreak]

...

[HiTempguy1]

You do realize that 25% and 27% voted for the Wildrose and Conservatives right?

Many voted for the NDP because they wanted the PCs gone, not because of some massive cultural revolution in Alberta. You guys really need to get your heads out of the collective asses of downtown Calgary and Edmonton :rofl:

Plenty of the Conservative voters would vote Wildrose in a heartbeat, and easily 20% of the people who voted NDP would normally have voted Conservative or Wildrose.

The conservatives lost due to
1) Corruption
2) Elitism/talking down to their constituents
3) Taking the electorate for granted
4) Doing a shit job of managing Alberta's finances
5) Not being conservative enough (both fiscally and socially).

None of these reasons screams "Alberta has changed!" Just all your lefty news sources wishes it was the case.

I want the whole PC part gone. Without fresh blood, the party will continue to rot. Wildrose offers a chance at change with a leader from outside the PCs, as the leader makes the party.

[Feruk]

Brian Jean isn't leader material though... I don't care if PCs or WR win, but I don't wanna see another vote splitting. Anyone who unites the right without being too much of a social conservative has my vote.

Also, we've now seen "change", and I don't like it.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
You do realize that 25% and 27% voted for the Wildrose and Conservatives right?

Many voted for the NDP because they wanted the PCs gone, not because of some massive cultural revolution in Alberta.
Agree with this assessment, folks were tired of the PC bullshit. However, I don't think you can add up those numbers and say the combined party will get 52% of the vote. much will depend on what the new party looks like, and how successful they can be at convincing voters that they have some core values that are appealing.

[Masked Bandit]

If JK can get the two parties to run under one banner I will predict a decisive win for the new group in the next election. Shave off the far right crazy of the WR and they're good to go.

[shakalaka]

I was actually going to make a thread about this as I am interested in hearing the general opinion about JK and his idea to unite etc. I am not much for politics, however, lately due to my current affiliations at my new firm with ex PC MP's and current politicians I am getting more and more interested as I keep getting dragged to these events. I was there yesterday when JK announced but I really don't have enough knowledge/interest to form an opinion of my own. I met him and he seems like a decent guy, but I am reading a lot of hate towards him and people calling him dumb etc. Apparently Brian Jean said he has no interest in a merger as of right now so it makes it sound like JK was just making some things up. Will be interesting to see the direction this takes but curious to see what people think of him.

[HiTempguy1]

Brian Jean might not be the leader needed, but WildRose certainly will not back down for "good enough".

I don't think people understand that the PC's are done for. You can't simply amalgamate two parties in Alberta, it's impossible. One must concede defeat. The PC's never will, and they still literally have the EXACT SAME PEOPLE THAT CAUSED THE ISSUE IN THE FIRST PLACE RUNNING.

Wildrose will be destroyed, and you could possibly get a further protest vote (Alberta Party next??) if they defect to the PC's. The Wildrose, now in hindsight, was a much better choice than Nutley and crew for this province.

PC's need to die. Nobody in that party should be voted back into office, they can go have their plush office jobs thrown at them from the private sector that they worked so hard to cozy up to :dunno:

[e31]

Taken at face value, JK is running for leadership of a 3rd place party. Should he not have considered joining WildRose if he wanted to have a shot at leading AB? I'm even more offended now if the PC party still thinks they can lead a "unite" movement after the last election BS.
Look at how well it worked out for Prentice's PC's after absorbing the WR traitors. PC < WR by a long shot.

[g-m]

Liberals were a 3rd place party. Just saying.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by e31
Taken at face value, JK is running for leadership of a 3rd place party. Should he not have considered joining WildRose if he wanted to have a shot at leading AB? I'm even more offended now if the PC party still thinks they can lead a &quot;unite&quot; movement after the last election BS.
Look at how well it worked out for Prentice's PC's after absorbing the WR traitors. PC &lt; WR by a long shot.

You have to understand that JK is C, not PC. Wildrose is also a C.

While on the surface, it looks like JK should go for Wildrose, the goal is take the P out of PC and turn it into Wildrose for the "merge".

So JK's strat is to destroy PC from within.

And since JK is a C, he has no place in the new federal Conservative party which is turning itself back into PC.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
You do realize that 25% and 27% voted for the Wildrose and Conservatives right?

While that has been the talking point of the Right, I doubt all 25% PC vote are hardcore right wing votes?

I would guess that at least 1/2 is voting for stability, the progressive values and NDP fear that will never vote WR.

So if JK united the right to the right and removed the progressive values, it could be a better showing but WR won't break 40%.


Originally posted by Masked Bandit
If JK can get the two parties to run under one banner I will predict a decisive win for the new group in the next election. Shave off the far right crazy of the WR and they're good to go.

I don't see how JK will do that as he IS a social conservatives.

[dirtsniffer]

UNITE THE RIGHT, by voting WR in the next election.

[SKR]

I don't think there should be any political parties. You should be able to elect an MLA that represents your interests, not an MLA that represents the interests of the party that at best represents your interests more than the other parties.

I used represents and interests too much because I stink at words.

[nzwasp]

So is Kenney going to be doing all this while still sitting as an active member of the federal govt?

While I would vote for the cons again I dont think i'd want either Kenney or Brian Jean as the leader.

[dirtsniffer]

why not Brian Jean?

\/ I have read the party policy, the only time religion is mentioned is when it says people have freedom of religion \/

[nzwasp]

Because i dont think there is room for religion when it comes to politics.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by nzwasp
So is Kenney going to be doing all this while still sitting as an active member of the federal govt?

You can't expect him to fight for the taxpayer and not still get paid his government salary while going for a different job can you?

[Gman.45]

Alberta.

Separation.

Party.

Alberta First Party. Whatever.

Until the right/conservative/libertarian people wake up and realize that the East will continue to unfairly take transfer payment $, and in return foist laws which are against Western culture and economics on us, things will never change. The only solution where Western Canada will ever, ever live fairly, is to have one to four Western Provinces say adios to the rest.

So the Conservatives unite like the Federal "Reform" and "PC" party of old. Big deal. Provincial laws and decisions will always be overridden by Federal ones. Federal unjust policies are the major problem long term, and the problem which should be solved.

Even sovereignty over separation would be acceptable IMO.

[kertejud2]

What laws are against Western culture, specifically?

[dirtsniffer]

Quebec doesn't have to include revenue from hydro electric in the equalization payment formula

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/peter-holle-artificially-cheap-hydro-power-your-equalization-dollars-at-work

[HiTempguy1]

I would 100% back a legitimate seperation party.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I would 100% back a legitimate seperation party.

I would as well.

Federal law over rides Provincial law. But, I doubt the average provincial knows this.

Claim sovereignty.

Cease all transfer payments to the East, and take over the West. Now crush the BC BS and get our oil out.

Take that billions saved and put into some sort of productiveness, instead of the wallets of the elite and unpropitious POS.

Don't even get me started on Direct Democracy.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Seth1968


I would as well.

Federal law over rides Provincial law. But, I doubt the average provincial knows this.

Claim sovereignty.

Cease all transfer payments to the East, and take over the West. Now crush the BC BS and get our oil out.

Take that billions saved and put into some sort of productiveness, instead of the wallets of the elite and unpropitious POS.

Don't even get me started on Direct Democracy.

So separate because of federal infringement on provincial affairs, then bully other provinces to give into your overreaching demands against the will of their people?

Yeah seems about what I'd expect from provincial separatists.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by kertejud2


So separate because of federal infringement on provincial affairs, then bully other provinces to give into your overreaching demands against the will of their people?

Yeah seems about what I'd expect from provincial separatists.

WTF?

I'm wanting what you're on kert whatever:)

[asp integra]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I would 100% back a legitimate seperation party.



Originally posted by Seth1968


I would as well.

Federal law over rides Provincial law. But, I doubt the average provincial knows this.

Claim sovereignty.

Cease all transfer payments to the East, and take over the West. Now crush the BC BS and get our oil out.

Take that billions saved and put into some sort of productiveness, instead of the wallets of the elite and unpropitious POS.

Don't even get me started on Direct Democracy.



Ditto, just take all the west (BC, AB, SK and MB) then we have shipping lanes to both Pacific and Atlantic. Boom

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Seth1968


WTF?

I'm wanting what you're on kert whatever:)

Federal law over rides Provincial law. But, I doubt the average provincial knows this.

Claim sovereignty.

Cease all transfer payments to the East, and take over the West. Now crush the BC BS and get our oil out.


By "BC BS" you mean what their province and people want?

[dubhead]

Originally posted by kertejud2




By &quot;BC BS&quot; you mean what their province and people want?

That's why separatism will never work BC will never come with us pretty much leaving Alberta landlocked and ripe to just become a U.S. State.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Federal law over rides Provincial law. But, I doubt the average provincial knows this.

Claim sovereignty.

Cease all transfer payments to the East, and take over the West. Now crush the BC BS and get our oil out.


By &quot;BC BS&quot; you mean what their province and people want?

Yes, and your sarcasm is noted.

What people want is fairness and prosperity. That's not going to happen under our current (and past) political system. Albertans will just continue to be drained until the whole thing falls apart.

In one way or another, we need to get out now. If BC wants no part of it, then let them die with the others and the rest of us will find a way around them.

[JRSC00LUDE]

A Western state is interesting but I'll be long dead before it happens/actually worked out as a net benefit.

I would like someone to clearly explain the long list of benefits we receive from Quebec or, Eastern Canada in general. :dunno:

[16hypen3sp]

Maybe Trump will just come and buy Alberta...?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
A Western state is interesting but I'll be long dead before it happens/actually worked out as a net benefit.


We'll all be long dead as the whole thing isn't sustainable on every level.

Perhaps that's a good thing, and I shouldn't even bother.

[Gman.45]

I would like someone to clearly explain the long list of benefits we receive from Quebec or, Eastern Canada in general

He shoots, he scorrrres!

Glad to see I'm no the only one here on Beyond that thinks separation or at least sovereignty from Federal laws and economic decisions would be good for us in the West.

So far as what laws are against our culture in the West? Gosh, let me think about that one. How about the original NEP. Or every gun law passed since, forever. They've sure helped cut down on crime and criminals using firearms. But that's small beans compared to the economic impact so many fruity Eastern ideas which have become laws have had on Alberta. And Sask and others.