Earls.67 implementing a mandatory 16% hospitality charge.

[roopi]

I'm glad to see them trying this. I'm curious how this will turn out. I don't like the idea that if I buy a $100 bottle of wine that I need to pay an extra $16.00 for it.

https://earls67.ca/journal/new-post/



AN ALTERNATIVE TO TIPPING
One of the first policies Earls.67 will be testing is a new compensation model for all staff who work here. Instead of the traditional tipping method, we will be implementing a 16% hospitality charge to all bills. The 16% will be paid to all staff that helped serve and prepare the meal from dishwashers, to chefs, to service staff, in the form of consistent wages.

Q&A

Q : Why are you changing the tipping structure?

A : Earls.67 is about change, innovation and thoughtful examination of alternative methods of service for our guests; it’s a testing site for ideas. One of our newest test policies is the addition of the 16% hospitality charge. We have decided to test this method against the traditional tipping method as a way to compensate the entire team that worked to deliver our guests a great experience. The 16% hospitality will be shared with all staff through higher standard wages. This includes everyone from our highly trained chefs and cooks, to our servers and bar backs. We’re testing this policy and welcome your feedback on it.

If you’re still curious about our new test new policy, please check out leading hospitality and restaurant subject matter expert, Bruce McAdams, from the University of Guelph, on why we should rethink traditional tipping:



Q : How will it work?

A : 100% of the 16% hospitality will be distributed to all staff. This is a prototype to test what we believe will be the future of wage scales in hospitality. We hope to conduct a thorough review of this test policy after its implementation and following feedback from our guests and staff alike. Earls.67 is the perfect place to try this. It is about innovation and experimentation in all facets of the traditional restaurant model.



Q : Can I still tip if I want to?

A : No, you have already compensated the wait staff and the kitchen staff with the automatic 16% hospitality.



Q : What will happen if someone leaves an additional tip?

A : Any additional gratuity will be divided equally among all staff.



Q : What if my experience is unsatisfactory?

A : We are committed to excellent service. If you are unsatisfied with your experience, please speak with a manager and we will make it right.



Q : Who gets the money?

A : All of the staff who contributed to your experience will share the 16% hospitality.



Q : You say you are testing it – how will you evaluate the concept?

A : We will be looking for comments from our staff at Earls.67 and other Earls establishments. We welcome your feedback. Please go to earls.ca/feedback to leave any comments that you have.



Q : Is this a reaction to the increase to the minimum wage in Alberta?

A : This test policy has been developed with the goal that every one of our Earls.67 employees are paid a consistent wage. While we understand that the minimum wage is due to increase in Alberta, our focus is simply to pay our employees a more consistent wage across all of the sectors of our business.

We’re very excited to try this policy out and welcome your feedback on it. Please visit earls.ca/feedback to leave any comments you have.

[Maxx Mazda]

We've discussed the tipping thing lots before here on beyond...

Here's why I like it: Often times kitchen staff and dishwashers, etc bust their ass to get a meal out the door. Some idiot waitress gives shitty service, and only receives a 12% tip. Why should the chefs, etc have to take a hit because of shitty service out front?

Here's why I don't like it: You're limited to tipping only the requisite 16% even if someone went above and beyond to make your dining experience memorable. I have tipped 20-25% before for outstanding service.

[roopi]

Originally posted by Maxx Mazda

Here's why I don't like it: You're limited to tipping only the requisite 16% even if someone went above and beyond to make your dining experience memorable. I have tipped 20-25% before for outstanding service.



Q : What will happen if someone leaves an additional tip?

A : Any additional gratuity will be divided equally among all staff.


I know it's been discussed before. Just nice to see a larger chain give this an attempt. I know other restaurants have tried it but I'm not really sure how it turned out.

I'm guessing if this is successful in their eyes they will move it to other restaurants as well.

[R154]

Originally posted by Earls.67

Q : Can I still tip if I want to?

A : No, you have already compensated the wait staff and the kitchen staff with the automatic 16% hospitality.



Q : What will happen if someone leaves an additional tip?

A : Any additional gratuity will be divided equally among all staff.


What!?

So... :english: :drama:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[TL911]

The flip side to this is that the waitresses that give shity service and are rude because their having a bad day are still entitled to the 16%.

[roopi]

So would it be safe to assume that all staff would now be taxed on all tips?

[HomespunLobster]

Originally posted by TL911
The flip side to this is that the waitresses that give shity service and are rude because their having a bad day are still entitled to the 16%.

We all have bad days. Do you pay less at the grocery store if the person at the till is in a bad mood?

[jacky4566]

So why not just go full tilt and show all the restaurant costs on the bill? This whole tipping thing is getting so silly. Can we just go European style and start rounding to the nearest bill.

Food $8.25
Chef $1.50
Waiter $ 2.00
Admin $0.20

Total $11.95

[Swank]

Originally posted by HomespunLobster


We all have bad days. Do you pay less at the grocery store if the person at the till is in a bad mood? You can tip at the till at the grocery store, and you can tip less if they are in a bad mood.

[A790]

Originally posted by Maxx Mazda
Here's why I like it: Often times kitchen staff and dishwashers, etc bust their ass to get a meal out the door. Some idiot waitress gives shitty service, and only receives a 12% tip. Why should the chefs, etc have to take a hit because of shitty service out front?

Almost all restaurants/bar have tip outs based on sales, not tips accrued. If a server gives shit service and gets a $0 tip on a $100 bill but has a 4% tip out, that server still has to pay $4... it's just out of their pocket, now.

[blairtruck]

Originally posted by HomespunLobster


We all have bad days. Do you pay less at the grocery store if the person at the till is in a bad mood?
i dont pay more if she is in a good mood.

[racerocco]

From what I've heard they are having a tough time finding servers. Anyone good at serving makes a lot more per hour than they will with this set up

[roopi]

Originally posted by A790

Almost all restaurants/bar have tip outs based on sales, not tips accrued. If a server gives shit service and gets a $0 tip on a $100 bill but has a 4% tip out, that server still has to pay $4... it's just out of their pocket, now.

Sounds like a poor system.

[btimbit]

As I make sure to mention in every tipping thread, keep in mind that every restaurant in North America that gets rid of tips completely has failed with a year.

Simply getting rid of it completely would be shooting themselves in the foot. People would get scared off by the higher menu prices. It's been proven time and time again.

This is kind of a clever way of testing the waters when it comes to heading that direction. I'm mostly curious if the tips will still be given out weekly in cash, or now as part of the paycheques

[Sugarphreak]

...

[btimbit]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
they are supposed to be paying taxes on tips anyway

If it now showed up on the paycheques though it would be subject to other deductions as well, not just taxes

That's why I'm really curious if it's still handed out as cash or not

[lilmira]

tipping is so stupid. How absurd would it be to go buy grocery and tip the farmer and truck driver at the door because they don't get their fair cut? Figure out how much I am supposed to pay. It's not the customer's job to investigate how everyone is paid.

[Buster]

T he tipping culture is why you get good service in the us and bad service in Europe though.

[lilmira]

Originally posted by Buster
T he tipping culture is why you get good service in the us and bad service in Europe though.

You don't tip in Japan and the service is excellent. Tipping has very little to do with it, fair wage does, the culture has a lot to do with it too.

[Minimalist]

Here is where we see who has worked in the food and service industry and who is cheap and tries to argue their way out of tipping. Your company bonus is a tip from your company, is it not?

Z-qV9wVGb38

[btimbit]

Originally posted by lilmira
tipping is so stupid. How absurd would it be to go buy grocery and tip the farmer and truck driver at the door because they don't get their fair cut? Figure out how much I am supposed to pay. It's not the customer's job to investigate how everyone is paid.

How much of our lives here can you actually compare to European or Japanese culture?

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by Minimalist
Here is where we see who has worked in the food and service industry and who is cheap and tries to argue their way out of tipping. Your company bonus is a tip from your company, is it not?

Z-qV9wVGb38

Ya. From my employer, not my employers customers.

[lilmira]

Originally posted by btimbit


How much of our lives here can you actually compare to European or Japanese culture?

I know, different culture all together, not just tipping and service industry, so not comparable.

No one is arguing that they shouldn't be paid fairly but why is it the customer's job. Imagine your employer cutting your salary, asking you to get it compensated by tip from clients directly, that's absurd right?

[btimbit]

Originally posted by lilmira


I know, different culture all together, not just tipping and service industry, so not comparable.

Yeah.

I do agree, ideally tipping would be abolished and simply rolled into pricing.

Especially now that we see "tip" options at fucking subway or a frozen yogurt place.

Yet, anyone that's gotten rid of tipping, loses money. People complain. Weirdly, people do seem to like it, even if it's for fucked up reasons like the studies that showed people like thinking they have control over their server.

But a major cultural shift is what'd be needed to make tipping go away. Despite what you read on the internet, people do seem to like tipping.

[NoSup4U]

Originally posted by lilmira


You don't tip in Japan and the service is excellent. Tipping has very little to do with it, fair wage does, the culture has a lot to do with it too.

Agree here, kind of....

Tipping has become an entailment in North America, as the people that serve us are of now of that "me generation" (18-22 years old) where as the think they deserve 25% no matter the service.

My best service has always been in Asian countries, where the food and service is usually always brilliant, and when you do tip them, they act like a child on Christmas morning.

But I will say fair wage doesn't always change the service.....Australia (Perth), they are paid $20-$25 an hour and give mediocre service (I would say equivalent to the Bro at Harry Rosen), but at a a premium price for beer and food.

But in retrospect, it is pretty equivalent for a night out here with tip, than there without tip....but how will that change when the minimum wage increases to $15??

[InRich]

this is just another reason for me not to visit earls

[max_boost]

Change the entire system

[Sugarphreak]

...

[speedog]

Originally posted by InRich
this is just another reason for me not to visit earls

The bigger question though is "Will you be missed?"

[A790]

Originally posted by roopi
Sounds like a poor system.

Not really. It ensures that the back house, bar, etc. get a portion of gratuities. Because it's calculated on sales and not tips, they get it regardless of how the server performs.

[A790]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Canada and the US is a joke for service. Service is considered to be good if they come back once before you are finished your meal to see if "everything is ok". There are very few places in Calgary where I have found hostesses to be tip-worthy... I just tip by default because I know it makes up most of their income, not because I received good service.
I have been to many restaurants here in town and have had excellent service. In fact, I've had excellent service far more than I have poor service. Admittedly, it's usually "just ok" service, but still...

People such as yourself post complaints about how terrible the service is. I just don't see it.

[msommers]

The best service I have ever received was in NYC at a place called PRINT. Got checked on just enough, the owner came around and asked how everything was, our napkins got refolded when we went to the washroom...

In town, I'd be hard pressed to say I've had terrible service more than once. But it's been average at best now that I've had such an incredible experience to compare it to. Even at Calgary's nicest restaurants it's no contest compared to that place in NYC. Service in NYC wasn't that consistent but it was overall better than Calgary. Just my opinion but I think it's because people actually care about having a job there vs. here.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[speedog]

Originally posted by A790

I have been to many restaurants here in town and have had excellent service. In fact, I've had excellent service far more than I have poor service. Admittedly, it's usually "just ok" service, but still...

People such as yourself post complaints about how terrible the service is. I just don't see it.

I truly believe that you, as a customer, bring something to the table as well when dining out - I've been to restaurants with my wife where we've gotten fabulous service and yet almost anytime we've gone to the same places with my parents it's been the absolutely shittiest service. Don't know if it's a vibe that someone carries or what but I just seem to get better service when my parents aren't with me.

[A790]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Most of the time the service isn't bad, but like you said, it isn't exactly noteworthy either.

There are a few things I see regularly, especially in Alberta include, but are not limited to:
-Having to track down a waitress when you need something
-Long waits for them to come by for ordering or drinks
-The server not coming back for like 10 minutes after the meal has been served
-When they give a 5 minute high pressure sales pitch for drinks when you are just there to eat, and then a complete lack of interest in servicing you for the rest of the meal when you order a coffee or tea.
-The complete loss of ownership for guests after the bill has been delivered.

These are all things I see on a regular basis here.

I am not saying all servers are bad, so don't consider this a blanket statement.

Personally I like tipping people when they go above and beyond. It is nice to reward people for that. In North America however, it is just part of the bill... everybody gets a big fat tip no matter how mediocre the service.
I've experienced those service issues as well, though infrequently.


Originally posted by speedog


I truly believe that you, as a customer, bring something to the table as well when dining out - I've been to restaurants with my wife where we've gotten fabulous service and yet almost anytime we've gone to the same places with my parents it's been the absolutely shittiest service. Don't know if it's a vibe that someone carries or what but I just seem to get better service when my parents aren't with me.
When I served (for years) I found it much easier to provide good service to tables I "connected" with. If a table was cold or rude, it was hard to want to give them great service. It's not like I deliberately didn't give good service, but it's hard to be enthusiastic when you dread talking to someone... lol

[Amysicle]

.

[btimbit]

Originally posted by Amysicle


Is it because of that or because the server does not see a direct reason to provide good service and subsequently alienates customers, ensuring there is no repeat business?

Could be. There are lots of studies out there showing that tipping actually does nothing to ensure a quality of service. Your average server essentially takes it as an average, one bad tip is offset by another fantastic tip, so they kind of psychologically say 'Fuck it" and just provide the same level of service they would anyway.

Not sure I completely buy into that myself, I think it more-so depends on the restaurant, their standards, and mostly how good their managers are. Tipping doesn't ensure a quality of service as much as a manager quietly observing and picking apart their every single word, sentence and physical action.

[Minimalist]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Ya. From my employer, not my employers customers.

Last I checked, your employer's customers were paying your entire pay and bonus. Different where you work?

I'll make clear, I do not support mandatory tipping where they add X$ to the bill. A tip is a personal thing, all that adding the %$ to the bill does is make it easier for the owner to get his hands in there and take a cut.

Tip, don't tip, whatever, your life. I do know who eats a little spit or has a nice nutsack impression placed in their cheesecake. What goes on behind the kitchen doors stays there.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[lilmira]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Do you just do it to people based on a hunch?

Being rude and difficult to talk to may get you some spit and nutsack, dunno just a hunch lol.

[max_boost]

Went to earls on 16th. Everything was great so I left the 25% for the girl. I like them young servers, hard working and always smiling lol not jaded like the veterans ahha

In HK it's 10% automatic and you can tip more if you like. Maybe that number is better here so at least it covers the tip out.

End of the day do whatever you want and support whatever restaurant you want. Lots of choices.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Maxt]

Originally posted by max_boost
Went to earls on 16th. Everything was great so I left the 25% for the girl. I like them young servers, hard working and always smiling lol not jaded like the veterans ahha

In HK it's 10% automatic and you can tip more if you like. Maybe that number is better here so at least it covers the tip out.

End of the day do whatever you want and support whatever restaurant you want. Lots of choices.
And you only ordered a coke?

[Cooked Rice]

Do you guys tip at places where you pay before you get your food if prompted by the debit machine?

I find most of these places that have tip prompting debit machines don't even have a tip jar if you pay cash, but then again, dat cash money tax evasion :rofl:

[max_boost]

just tip if you want lol

also a matter of time before a no tip restaurant pops up in calgary.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by roopi
I don't like the idea that if I buy a $100 bottle of wine that I need to pay an extra $16.00 for it. Do you currently reduce your tip if you buy higher priced items? Like 18% on items under $20, and 5% on items over or something?

[roopi]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Do you currently reduce your tip if you buy higher priced items? Like 18% on items under $20, and 5% on items over or something?

No I do not. I see where you are going with this though.

[rage2]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Do you currently reduce your tip if you buy higher priced items? Like 18% on items under $20, and 5% on items over or something?
I know people that do this. The higher the bill the lower the %.

[HiTempguy1]

It really does make no sense to tip on percent. If one person spends more, even if the waitress does no more work, why pay more? Ridiculous concept. Do you tip a higher % at a fancy restaurant? Because that is basically the same thing.

If Earl's actually does implement this, I'll stop going. I stopped going to Earl's because of the beef, and I'll stop going because of this.

As a sidenote, Earl's has in huge letters at the top of their menus "our beef is still 100% antibiotic free and humane and blah blah blah because YOU wanted it".

Bunch of tards running that business :nut:

[A790]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
As a sidenote, Earl's has in huge letters at the top of their menus "our beef is still 100% antibiotic free and humane and blah blah blah because YOU wanted it".
Been to Earl's recently, have we? ;)

[rage2]

Originally posted by A790
Been to Earl's recently, have we? ;)
:rofl:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by A790

Been to Earl's recently, have we? ;)

:rofl:

They switched back or are in the process of to Alberta steak :)

It also wasn't my choice to go, and I didn't have steak either time, just appies ;) I've been asked multiple times in the past month or so to go to earls, and everytime I've said no except for the one time. I still am pretty firmly on the "f*&k earls" bandwagon, but its kind of a staple of Alberta which makes it hard to get away from, especially when people are picky eaters. :hijack:

[hks]

This is just another way for the owners to pass more of their own salary expenses down to the customer. Just pay your damn employees a little more, and then give the customers an option to tip whatever they want. What's so hard about that?

For most of the bars in downtown, i would say that the majority of people tip between 10-15% anyways. Regardless of how much people tip, i think most people will have a problem with a "mandatory" charge that's really only based on culture :dunno:

[riander5]

Originally posted by hks
This is just another way for the owners to pass more of their own salary expenses down to the customer. Just pay your damn employees a little more, and then give the customers an option to tip whatever they want. What's so hard about that?

For most of the bars in downtown, i would say that the majority of people tip between 10-15% anyways. Regardless of how much people tip, i think most people will have a problem with a "mandatory" charge that's really only based on culture :dunno:

I have never seen anyone tip less than 15% on a meal in downtown calgary. The norm is 15-20.

(That being said I haven't ever received horrendous service that might have warranted less than 15 either)

[riander5]

Originally posted by hks
This is just another way for the owners to pass more of their own salary expenses down to the customer. Just pay your damn employees a little more, and then give the customers an option to tip whatever they want. What's so hard about that?



Why dont all business owners give their employees more. Why do the CEO's of fortune 500 companies not share their multi million dollar bonuses every year? Why doesnt Warren Buffet shower his employees with millions?

Thats just how the world works man

[Mitsu3000gt]

Isn't minimum wage going up to $15 or something like that by 2018? That seems like it would almost remove the need for tipping at restaurants where they are now getting a fair wage for entry-level work. I'm curious to see what happens there. Back when it was $5-7/hr, yeah, I can see why they would be depending on that extra 15-20% but at $15/hr for a job that has no prerequisites that seems not too bad. The almost guaranteed 15-20% tips servers make now is a big reason for garbage service IMHO. If it was more of a rarity or if they were paid a better base wage, I would hope to see service improve. Everywhere I have ever been has better restaurant service than Calgary.

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by A790


When I served (for years) I found it much easier to provide good service to tables I "connected" with. If a table was cold or rude, it was hard to want to give them great service. It's not like I deliberately didn't give good service, but it's hard to be enthusiastic when you dread talking to someone... lol


Ah nothing better than the "Hey guys, my name is bla bla i'll be taking care of you tonight, how is everyones evening going?" *insert blank stare/no words back*

http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/server1.gif?w=650

[InRich]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


:rofl:

They switched back or are in the process of to Alberta steak :)

It also wasn't my choice to go, and I didn't have steak either time, just appies ;) I've been asked multiple times in the past month or so to go to earls, and everytime I've said no except for the one time. I still am pretty firmly on the "f*&k earls" bandwagon, but its kind of a staple of Alberta which makes it hard to get away from, especially when people are picky eaters. :hijack:


you traitor. :thumbsdow

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
$15/hr for a job that has no prerequisites
^ has not worked in a customer service job where people get pissed at you for things out of your control.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by jwslam

^ has not worked in a customer service job where people get pissed at you for things out of your control.

I have for many years, and I was making $7/hr for it at the peak. Fact of the matter is literally anyone could do the job with no experience or education - IMHO that justifies the minimal compensation. Everyone puts in their time with a crappy job like that, and ideally makes it to something better.

I probably would stop tipping for all but the best service if servers start making $15/hr, especially since restaurants will probably raise prices to compensate. If people keep giving 20%, not only is the server making a much higher base rate, but their percentage based tips will be higher as well due to the higher menu prices - quality of service in Calgary will go down even further, if that's even possible, because the server's minimum guaranteed pay will be WAY higher so there will be no incentive to even try.

As for mandatory tipping charges like the OP, what happens if your service is crap? (quality of service only goes down with mandatory charges) Do you have to call over a manager and make a big deal about it? Very few people are going to do that, and would much prefer to simply leave a smaller tip/no tip. It just guarantees more money for the restaurant.

[max_boost]

do a minimum 5% tip to cover the tip out and leave it at that. consumers are used to getting dinged anyway. :rofl: :eek:

[colinxx235]

I'm assuming something will change with minimum wage here. My experience is with earls, joeys, keg personally and then friends/ex's worked at other places which only difference is tipout % really.

But in the last 10 years min wage as gone from 7.50? 8? iirc? and will approach 15.
Earls/Joeys have had a 5.5 -> 6.25 - 7.25 ish % tipout (earls tin is very high). In that time the price of quite a few dishes has gone up probably between 30-50% on most dishes and maybe more in some cases. This also gets countered with them constantly reducing portion sizes in between price increases to distract.

That chain is pretty greedy in terms of what it wants to see for profits, hence such a high tipout system as they use it as a built in for manager/leaders/kitchen/support staff wages. So with wage going up as significant as they have more than likely so will the prices. As was, I used to want to throw up at what some of the lounge girls pull in for tips, it makes your head shake. Funny how many of them would get a degree in bcomm or w/e and come back after realising that taking a 50% paycut to work in an office sucked. Or plenty still worked part time shifts just because the cash was that good.

This designated 16% is very odd as lots of the girls there used to bitch about "only 15/18%" at times. Maybe with the downturn they are experiencing more no tips or dine and dash etc and the staff aren't happy with it and finally reformatting the system? The only way to really beat it is to go out less. As leaving a no tip in a social setting is quite the faux pas in our society

[max_boost]

hot girls are recession proof? yes? no? lol

[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

As for mandatory tipping charges like the OP, what happens if your service is crap? (quality of service only goes down with mandatory charges) Do you have to call over a manager and make a big deal about it? Very few people are going to do that, and would much prefer to simply leave a smaller tip/no tip. It just guarantees more money for the restaurant.

Its actually better for everyone I think. Good for the restaurant as they get some feedback on how to improve, gives them the opportunity to "make it right" (by comping, gift card etc) which in the end is better for the person dining. Leaving a bad tip is just passive aggressive in its message and doesn't permit for any resolution.

I like this initiative, lots.


Originally posted by max_boost
hot girls are recession proof? yes? no? lol

From my Stampede observations this weekend, yes.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Neil4Speed


Its actually better for everyone I think. Good for the restaurant as they get some feedback on how to improve, gives them the opportunity to "make it right" (by comping, gift card etc) which in the end is better for the person dining. Leaving a bad tip is just passive aggressive in its message and doesn't permit for any resolution.

I like this initiative, lots.



What do you think will happen to the quality of service though? The quality of service (which is already pretty terrible at many Calgary restaurants compared to elsewhere in the world) will go even lower when servers have no incentive to perform above minimum standards since their guaranteed base wages (soon to be $15) AND tips are secured? I don't feel like forcing people to tip 16% is a good solution personally.

[msommers]

Originally posted by max_boost
hot girls are recession proof? yes? no? lol

Absolutely yes lol.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


What do you think will happen to the quality of service though? The quality of service (which is already pretty terrible at many Calgary restaurants compared to elsewhere in the world) will go even lower when servers have no incentive to perform above minimum standards since their guaranteed base wages (soon to be $15) AND tips are secured? I don't feel like forcing people to tip 16% is a good solution personally.

It's honestly hard to say what will happen. I don't think things will magically go to absolute shit over night or at all. Some people still care about their minimum wage job (to varying degrees) even if tips were never part of the equation but still have to put up with people's bullshit.

I would guess that there would be an initial spike of turn-over and then things would settle. Business owners aren't going to put up with super lazy workers. As you've said, there are more or less no prerequisites to be a server, so there are plenty of others who would be willing to take over those positions.

I'm always surprised how much girls who've worked at Cactus, Earls, Joeys etc complain about how they get treated like meat, have to wear short skirts, wear heels for 6+ hours and yet still work there willingly as if there are no other jobs. It's basically selling your body for money but in a "classier" way than being a stripper!

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


What do you think will happen to the quality of service though? The quality of service (which is already pretty terrible at many Calgary restaurants compared to elsewhere in the world) will go even lower when servers have no incentive to perform above minimum standards since their guaranteed base wages (soon to be $15) AND tips are secured? I don't feel like forcing people to tip 16% is a good solution personally.
^^THIS!!

I don't want to drop 16% for crappy service. I'll gladly tip more when I get a great server. Compared to the service industry in places where jobs are scarce, our service here is terrible! The whole time I was in San Diego, everyone from the 50 year old working at Denny's to the doorman at the resort gave absolutely amazing service!

For this reason alone I will refuse to go to that restaurant. I don't think it will stick.

[RealJimmyJames]

I will go there just to see how the service works out. I would prefer a flat fee than the current system. I would prefer that this becomes successful and is emulated around the province.

Will see how the service is though. If the management can get servers to buy into the concept, it could be great. I've heard of some higher end places that give benefits and paid vacations to their serving and kitchen staff. Seems to me you'd end up with some true professionals. Sure, the management would need to perform some kind of performance appraisal and review, but that's difficult in every business, and not impossible in a restaurant.

[msommers]

My GF brought this up tonight and also thought that nothing will really change. But something I didn't really think about is if minimum wage goes to $15 and no one tips anymore, servers will be pissed and not give a shit about service. She was saying that on a very average night when she started at Boston Pizza, making $20/hr after tips was normal. When she worked at the pub, it could be $35-40+ on a weekend evening. Then consider how much of that money is untaxed...For bringing drinks and food. Boggles my mind, but anyways.

Interestingly, she thought opposite on how I felt about them more or less avoiding taxes. Admittedly making a general statement by her, a lot of server staff are students and would be making even less money with no tips and extra taxes. Maybe if more tuition was subsidised it wouldn't impact their debt load as much? Maybe the tax breaks given to students could increase instead?

I dunno, different mindset than mine for sure.

[dirtsniffer]

Anyone who thinks servers get paid what they deserve is obviously in the industry.

[spikerS]

I think everyone in this thread has missed the point here.

If I understand it right, the article states that at Earls.67 (where is this anyways?) will have menus priced at 16% higher than that of other Earls location during this test. In return, they are increasing the wages of the staff there by some amount, but they don't say by how much.

I think a lot of you are confused, thinking that this 16% is an automatic tip, when it's not, it is just a bump to their hourly wage, which of course gets reported to revenue canada...

IE: bill at Earls on 16th ave would be $100 with your server making $10/hour, and then you add your tip versus, your bill at Earls.67 would be $116 with no tip and your server makes $11.60/hour..

[dirtsniffer]

A coworker of mine is familiar with the situation and the restaurant expects the servers to make around $25 an hour.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by spikerS
I think everyone in this thread has missed the point here.

If I understand it right, the article states that at Earls.67 (where is this anyways?) will have menus priced at 16% higher than that of other Earls location during this test. In return, they are increasing the wages of the staff there by some amount, but they don't say by how much.

I think a lot of you are confused, thinking that this 16% is an automatic tip, when it's not, it is just a bump to their hourly wage, which of course gets reported to revenue canada...

IE: bill at Earls on 16th ave would be $100 with your server making $10/hour, and then you add your tip versus, your bill at Earls.67 would be $116 with no tip and your server makes $11.60/hour..

Uh...I don't think you've got that right. It will be identical to the way restaurants currently add a typical 18% tip on large groups. It's added to the bill.

From Earl's:


One of our newest test policies is the addition of the addition of the 16% hospitality charge...

Q : Why didn’t you just make the food and drink prices higher to pay your staff a higher wage?

A : 100% of the hospitality charge is being distributed to all staff in the form of higher consistent wages. If we were to raise our menu prices, a portion of the fee would have to be taken to go towards operational fees such as royalties and rent to landlords, versus going to the staff or charging the guest a higher % than 16%.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.2982709.1468277278!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg

[btimbit]

I think fears of the service being crap now because they have no incentive are way overblown. I think I said it a few pages back (or maybe it was on CP) but most servers aren't constantly thinking along those lines, they just know it averages out anyway so a bad tip offsets a good tip, etc. That, plus they still have managers. You think if a manager is getting complaints about a server, or constantly notices bad habits, they're just going to go "oh well, she's not earning tips so who cares." No, that bitch is going to get canned

[spikerS]

Originally posted by C_Dave45


Uh...I don't think you've got that right. It will be identical to the way restaurants currently add a typical 18% tip on large groups. It's added to the bill.

From Earl's:



http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.2982709.1468277278!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg

I stand corrected. The way I was reading it was that it was being built into the prices.

Carry on....lol

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by msommers
My GF brought this up tonight and also thought that nothing will really change. But something I didn't really think about is if minimum wage goes to $15 and no one tips anymore, servers will be pissed and not give a shit about service.

In my experience, and I honestly don't think I'm picky at all when it comes to service, the majority of the servers I get already don't give a shit about service haha. They haven't been to the table in ages and I see them texting or chatting even at higher end places. When they are now guaranteed $15/hr + 16% tax free (in the case of Earls), I can only see that getting far worse, but who knows.

When minimum wage goes up to $15, I think a lot of people will stop tipping, or drop it to 5-10% for good service. At that point they are already making a pretty decent wage for that type of work IMHO.

Coincidentally, and to build on Dave's comment, some of the best service I've ever had was in San Diego - everywhere from TGI Friday's to high end restaurants, the service was 10/10 and they work for their tips. In Calgary, I feel like most (not all) servers just know they are getting their 15-20% from most tables so they care way less. I'm not talking garbage service that you would complain about, but just generally very average service where they do the bare minimum.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by btimbit
I think fears of the service being crap now because they have no incentive are way overblown. I think I said it a few pages back (or maybe it was on CP) but most servers aren't constantly thinking along those lines, they just know it averages out anyway so a bad tip offsets a good tip, etc. That, plus they still have managers. You think if a manager is getting complaints about a server, or constantly notices bad habits, they're just going to go "oh well, she's not earning tips so who cares." No, that bitch is going to get canned :werd:

IMO for a place like Earls, 16% is a good number. Let's see how it goes.

I will scale back my tipping too. I've been going 18 to 25% too often, 16 will save me money. :bigpimp:

[FixedGear]

I'm living in the USA and the service here is a million times better than in Calgary, even at fast food places. I guess it's a different economy, but service workers take their jobs a lot more seriously here.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by FixedGear
I'm living in the USA and the service here is a million times better than in Calgary, even at fast food places. I guess it's a different economy, but service workers take their jobs a lot more seriously here. I thought the same thing when we were on Vancouver Island last month. We were treated like gold by everyone compared to "service" in Calgary (in general.) I think the problem we face here is that we have a generation of entitled, spoiled brats that have jobs for "something to do" instead of a necessary part of survival. All dat oil money over the years and wide open job market will do that.

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by FixedGear
I'm living in the USA and the service here is a million times better than in Calgary, even at fast food places. I guess it's a different economy, but service workers take their jobs a lot more seriously here.


Yah my family notices a huge difference in palm springs vs here in almost every service possible. I didn't eat out at many fast foods so I can't recall if they all had tip jars or tip prompts on the machines like they do here. But the restaurants service was always better, golf stores, golf courses, local car wash etc etc.

[riander5]

Originally posted by FixedGear
I'm living in the USA and the service here is a million times better than in Calgary, even at fast food places. I guess it's a different economy, but service workers take their jobs a lot more seriously here.


I tend to notice people in the states are much more happy making minimum wage all their life with no goals or ambitions other than waking up the next day and their face and becoming 400 lbs. Actually I take that back many americans do have on life goal and that is to see their closest NFL team win the superbowl. Not much other than that though. Cultural differences i suppose :dunno:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Also if you want a laugh... wear a red polo shirt into Canadian Tire. They have so little help in their stores that last time I did that (not on purpose), one guy was stalking me through the isle and finally came up and border line yelled "I've been standing here for 10 minutes, are you not going to offer to help me"... to which I responded with a dismissive "Fuck off". And he went and complained to the service desk :rofl:

Haha love it

To be fair, I find southland CT is always well organized, nicely staffed, etc. Southland by far my favourite, 64ave NE. Not so much

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


It is an Alberta thing, most people in service jobs here treat them like they are disposable....
I went into Canadian Tire in Pentiction a year or two ago for a short list of stuff I needed asap... blew my mind with how helpful they were.
Those small BC towns, they're so appreciative of just getting/having a job. A close friend lives in Vernon. He was out of work for over 6 months. Finally got a job paying $17/hour. He's supporting a family of 3 on that, and his rent is $1500/month.
He is so scared of losing that job, he NEVER misses a day of work. NEVER is late. The most loyal employee you've ever seen.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR
Haha love it

To be fair, I find southland CT is always well organized, nicely staffed, etc. Southland by far my favourite, 64ave NE. Not so much The one on Richmond Road S-U-C-K-S. Yes the caps were necessary. The most useless people I've ever seen. Grumpy mid 40's lifers or kids. But the location is great..

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
The one on Richmond Road S-U-C-K-S. Yes the caps were necessary. The most useless people I've ever seen. Grumpy mid 40's lifers or kids. But the location is great..

I would agree with this - compared to the McLeod trail CT, the Richmond one blows. Also, if you look at online stock, the Richmond one is always out of everything I am looking at, and the McLeod trail one has lots. Maybe it's their main store or something.

[dirtsniffer]

shawnessy is good too.

[max_boost]

Everyone in Calgary is PFY. I am guilty of that myself lol

[ZenOps]

America has a dream, so people work towards it - even blindly.

Canada has : Fill in the blank on a scale of one to ten.

[riander5]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Those small BC towns, they're so appreciative of just getting/having a job. A close friend lives in Vernon. He was out of work for over 6 months. Finally got a job paying $17/hour. He's supporting a family of 3 on that, and his rent is $1500/month.
He is so scared of losing that job, he NEVER misses a day of work. NEVER is late. The most loyal employee you've ever seen.

Makes sense that people with terrible finances and too many expenses would be reliable employees. You dont even have to worry about them retiring!!

[msommers]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Those small BC towns, they're so appreciative of just getting/having a job. A close friend lives in Vernon. He was out of work for over 6 months. Finally got a job paying $17/hour. He's supporting a family of 3 on that, and his rent is $1500/month.
He is so scared of losing that job, he NEVER misses a day of work. NEVER is late. The most loyal employee you've ever seen.

I've also experienced what you guys are describing as well.

But if a person in that same situation was here in Calgary, would it be vastly different?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by msommers


I've also experienced what you guys are describing as well.

But if a person in that same situation was here in Calgary, would it be vastly different?
Difference is (up until this year, with the economic hit we've taken) it's been easy to get jobs. Lose one, walk down the block and get another. A reporter with Calgary Herald I think it was, one time did an experiment...she got 5 different jobs within 5 days. Applied, worked that day, quit at end of her shift, and started again in the morning. For low paying jobs it's not hard to find work here at all.

Anyone under 40 living in Calgary/Edmonton has pretty much never experienced not being able to find a job here. It's not a matter of "IF" you get a job, it was "FOR WHO" and "FOR HOW MUCH".

[suntan]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
Anyone under 40 living in Calgary/Edmonton has pretty much never experienced not being able to find a job here. What? No. When I was 18 in 1991 it was very hard to find a job. Even fast food places wanted experience.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by suntan
What? No. When I was 18 in 1991 it was very hard to find a job. Even fast food places wanted experience.
You're 43 then? Like I said....anyone under 40.
Try coming into the workforce in BC in the 80's and 90's. There was nothing. And now again, small town BC is brutal for work. Has been for the past 10-15 years.

Calgary was building 15,000 homes a year in 95/96. And the oil boom as been going strong since late 80's. (up until now).

[suntan]

The lack of jobs persisted until about 2000. I actually credit WestJet for creating a lot of jobs around then.

Many of my friends left around 95 because there were no jobs here.

[roopi]

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/earls-restaurant-mandatory-tipping-experiment-ends-1.3971409



Earls restaurant on Stephen Avenue is going back to the old way of doing things.

Six months after the Earls.67 location abandoned regular tipping in favour of a mandatory 16-per-cent hospitality charge, the company says the experiment has come to an end.

Mo Jessa, the president of Earls Restaurants, says the company tested the fee as a way to even out the hourly disparity between front- and back-end staff.

"As the train moves towards the $15 minimum wage, it's creating a massive disparity between what the front of the house makes versus the back of the house," Jessa said. "It's going to become the industry's problem to solve."

But he says the experiment was received with mixed results from both customers and staff.

"There are people out there that strongly believe that tipping gives them this autonomy to decide what they want to leave for the server and it dictates their experience," he said.

Jessa says the industry needs to come up with new models to ensure a more equal distribution of pay among restaurant staff.

The restaurant is expected to switch back to the regular tipping system on Feb. 20.

[ExtraSlow]

Well, I applaud them for trying. It's a shame this didn't work out.