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Weapon_R
03-18-2004, 11:59 PM
CNN News (www.bushflash.com/rm/shoot_pc.ram) - one of the most disgusting and disturbing things i've seen.

http://www.capedmaskedandarmed.com/video/airforce.mov - a good commercial

Does the Geneva Convention Apply to Everyone? (www.bushflash.com/kills.mpeg ) - The Geneva Convention states that a soldier cannot kill a person who cannot fight back. Watch for yourself.

sleeper
03-19-2004, 12:29 AM
Them Bastards you see thats whats really going on there. Killing innocent people. Didnt look like he had any fire arms or anything Just sad. Poor people.

Redlyne_mr2
03-19-2004, 01:12 AM
Damn its not in mpeg format

itsalebaron
03-19-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by sleeper
Them Bastards you see thats whats really going on there. Killing innocent people. Didnt look like he had any fire arms or anything Just sad. Poor people.

Not that I am agreeing with what was shown in those clips, BUT whos to say those people were innocent? And just because you can't see a weapon in the video does not mean he did not have one. You can take clips from anywhere and cut them into 30 second segments to make your point. I would like to hear the true full story behind these clips before I am outraged by them.

Dj_Stylz
03-19-2004, 01:56 PM
How would i watch this?

Weapon_R
03-19-2004, 02:15 PM
The first one requires real player. The second one, quicktime. And the third one is an MPEG, so any MPEG player will work.

rice_eater
03-19-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_R
CNN News (www.bushflash.com/rm/shoot_pc.ram) - one of the most disgusting and disturbing things i've seen.

http://www.capedmaskedandarmed.com/video/airforce.mov - a good commercial

Does the Geneva Convention Apply to Everyone? (www.bushflash.com/kills.mpeg ) - The Geneva Convention states that a soldier cannot kill a person who cannot fight back. Watch for yourself.

dude the first one yes was pretty disturbing but you have no case with the last one. How do you know that those same guys hadden't just shot rockets at the same chopper and their just trying to get away. i just think you're stretching it

Weapon_R
03-19-2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by rice_eater


dude the first one yes was pretty disturbing but you have no case with the last one. You're starting to stretch things and meanings.

What meaning did I stretch? Didn't think that echoing a statement of the Geneva Convention was a "stretch" of the truth

rice_eater
03-19-2004, 03:01 PM
the last vid man...how do you know that wasn't actual fighting? As far as i remember when that video first came out that's what it was supposed to be.

Weapon_R
03-19-2004, 03:02 PM
How do I know he was fighting? I never said he wasn't - but I don't know if he was...

The point of my comment after, was that he was shot again after he was shot and injured. If you think it's fair game to kill someone whose already down, that's fine - I don't agree, so don't tell me that i'm stretching anything.

rice_eater
03-19-2004, 03:02 PM
how do you know those guys couldn't fight back man? better yet, if you are in that chopper and there's rockets and shit flying at you all the time to you take the chance every single time and wait and see if they shoot first?

Ben
03-19-2004, 03:02 PM
There is more to that helicopter kill video (3rd vid), there is a lot atfer and before which explains the reason they fired on them, but of course that is conveniently removed. Not picking sides at all, just stating a fact about the vid.

QuasarCav
03-19-2004, 03:03 PM
also in the geneva convention, you are not allowed to engage an enemy with a 50 cal bullet(12.7mm), I think chopper cannons are 20mm.
I don't want to start anything, but I hate Bush!!!!!!:banghead: :devil: :whipped: :barf:

Weapon_R
03-19-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Ben
There is more to that helicopter kill video (3rd vid), there is a lot atfer and before which explains the reason they fired on them, but of course that is conveniently removed. Not picking sides at all, just stating a fact about the vid.

Post the rest of the vid.

rice_eater
03-19-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_R
How do I know he was fighting? I never said he wasn't - but I don't know if he was...

The point of my comment after, was that he was shot again after he was shot and injured. If you think it's fair game to kill someone whose already down, that's fine - I don't agree, so don't tell me that i'm stretching anything.

do you really expect that in the middle of the desert the iraqi army will do a dustoff and pick up those guys and take them to a MASH unit? no they would have just sat there for another 10 minutes till they bled to death...

Weapon_R
03-19-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by rice_eater
how do you know those guys couldn't fight back man? better yet, if you are in that chopper and there's rockets and shit flying at you all the time to you take the chance every single time and wait and see if they shoot first?

No, I think that the Americans should kill anyone they feel is necessary so that they don't take chances :rolleyes:

rice_eater
03-19-2004, 03:06 PM
humans have this basic instinct to stay alive. and as you can even hear, the guy is following orders, he is not picking the targets himself! so don't blame the soldiers, blame the politics.

method
03-19-2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by rice_eater
humans have this basic instinct to stay alive. and as you can even hear, the guy is following orders, he is not picking the targets himself! so don't blame the soldiers, blame the politics.

yeah it sure was a life or death situation. LOOK THAT BLEEDING SEMI-CONSCIOUS MAN IS COMING RIGHT FOR US, KILL HIM!!

'just following orders' doesnt work bud. the nazi SS tried the same thing. no dice.

rice_eater
03-19-2004, 04:52 PM
ben already told you there was more to that video ;)

itsalebaron
03-19-2004, 05:24 PM
LOL these videos are like the unfair edit on Letterman.

Here I will quote WeaponR his words dont lie!!! :dunno:


Originally posted by Weapon_R
Watch a good soldier kill a person. The Geneva Convention, one of the most disgusting and disturbing things i've seen.


Sorry you didn't give me much to work with but they are all your words. You can take anything and twist it to fit your beliefs. And if it doesn't make up a conspiracy theory to make sure its the Americans fault. Once again I am not saying they are right in what they are doing, but it is funny that people stretch things to fit their own perceptions without even knowing the full story of what went on in these videos.

Akagi Redsuns
03-19-2004, 06:05 PM
I still want to see that missing pieces of the video that prompted such an action of blowing those guys away. There is lots of talk of it....where is it? or is it only talk?

rice_eater
03-19-2004, 06:12 PM
well people get blown off in war all the time

Akagi Redsuns
03-19-2004, 07:13 PM
Yeah, but there is a difference between innocent bystander walking around and getting hit with a stray bullet/grenade/landmine/tomahawk missle.......versus the same but getting intentionally hit with weapons. The video is edited and would be interesting to know if the rest of it supports what is already shown or provides some sort of justification for the attack.

Weapon_R
03-20-2004, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by itsalebaron


Here I will quote WeaponR his words dont lie!!! :dunno:



Thanks for butchering my words ;)

Now post the rest of the video. Oh ya, post the rest of the first CNN video while you're at it, since you are assured that there is more than meets the eye. I'm sure there was more to the video than some soldier killing an injured man and saying "It feels good to do that".

Ben
03-20-2004, 08:35 AM
I dont know where the rest of it is, but I have seen that video before and there was a lot more to it than that.

Z_Fan
03-20-2004, 09:16 AM
I'm really happy that there are people in the world who are willing to kill other people in War. Innocent or not. The point is that it isn't easy for a lot of these guys to pull the trigger. You can hear that in the voice of the gunship pilot. He doesn't want to kill the poor guy, but does it anyway. It is his job, nothing more.

As for the first video, really I don't see much wrong with it. Kill the bastard. He was likely initially resisting and firing back, we just see the end of him. Show me 5 minutes before when he was happily firing his weapon at US forces...

You think when a small group of rebels blows up a jeep in convoy and it kills 4 US soldiers that they don't cheer? You bet your ass they do. So fuck them! Rebels are using lethal force in their combat tactics (terror tactics really). The US has to do what is necessary, lethal force is required to remove the threat, so lethal force is used. Seems fair enough to me.

itsalebaron
03-20-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


Thanks for butchering my words ;)

Now post the rest of the video. Oh ya, post the rest of the first CNN video while you're at it, since you are assured that there is more than meets the eye. I'm sure there was more to the video than some soldier killing an injured man and saying "It feels good to do that".

That was the whole point...and yes I am sure there is more to those videos then is being shown. There is more to the full length videos being shown on the news at times. Without being there in that situation it would be hard to tell. These 25 second clips don't show anything but what you want them to. There are millions of 30 second clips out there that would make the American military look like heros, funny how you never seem to post those. All I am trying to say is those videos prove or show basically nothing because you dont even get the proper context or full story behind it, and like with rearranging your words when taken out of context just so it can suit your anti american stand is kind of pathetic if you ask me. If the americans are THAT bad you should be able to find much worse, full length, well documented articles. Though you can also find the same in opposing views. Of course you would never read those because the USA is the devil right?

Once again i am not saying what happened in these videos is right. However, along with them being chopped for their own cause, they leave out the results, ie. the soldiers being delt with for a way in which they should not have behaved. I am sure there are good and bad soldiers in ever army, but you always seem to judge the whole country on one small clip, one stupid news article, or based solely on the leader (bush) and his stupid antics. If that is what a whole country should be judged upon then may I ask you why the whole world didn't invade Iraq in the first place? Saddam was 100 times worse then Bush, so why don't you put your judgement theory to that country as well? or does that not seem to suit your beliefs? Sorry to write such a long drawn out response, I will let you get back to sifting through the net reaching at straws to find some more greatly informative videos.

LOL whos to say that the cheering wasn't dubbed in .. oh no its a big conspiracy.. and afterwards you can see where they cut and spliced the soldier talking (like 23-25 seconds soemwhere in there). Much like I rearranged your words maybe some anti-americans made this tape. I know it might be hard to believe but of course you believe but if it was the other way around I am sure you would be certain of it :poosie:

jaylo
03-20-2004, 01:03 PM
Third video story:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/apache_video_040109-1.html

similar one

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2003/11/mil-031114-rferl-124849.htm

I don't know, in a war, I believe sometimes you have to kill or be killed. If you are in a war, your not going to wait until the enemy grabs a rocket launcher and aims at your helicopter or watch them aim their gun at you before you take actions.

el_fefes
03-22-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Z_Fan
I'm really happy that there are people in the world who are willing to kill other people in War.

What's there to be happy about?:dunno: It seems like a pretty stupid satement.

I think that Weapon_R is not judging the whole US like itsalebaron is saying. He's probably judging the politics, the military and bush.

I think that it's true that the videos might've been edited and whatever, but especially the first one is wrong...what's the point of killing him? What people are angry about is that the US, the superpower, is the one is doing that. It's not the right example to set as a superpower. And I'm not saying that other countries don't do things like the ones in the video or worse, it's just that they're not in the spotlight like the US.

Big_C_racing
03-22-2004, 09:38 PM
Hey guys...while your at it, why doesn't someone find the vid of the founder of hamas, an old grey bearded man in a wheelchair being blown up my missiles fired from an isreali helicopter while he was walking out of a church I think. Selective assasination by the isreali gov.

Weapon_R
03-22-2004, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by el_fefes

I think that Weapon_R is not judging the whole US like itsalebaron is saying. He's probably judging the politics, the military and bush.

I think that it's true that the videos might've been edited and whatever, but especially the first one is wrong...what's the point of killing him?

I think you've hit the nail on the head. People are crying about the vids being edited, and i've challenged them several times to find me more evidence to prove otherwise, and they have yet to come up with any. I did not edit these videos, and I don't care whether they were edited. The first video is the worst, where a clearly injured person (regardless of what he was doing previous to being injured), is lying on the floor rolling in agony. He was then shot, and the soldier commented "It felt good to do it".

Pretty soon, some of the thread posters are going to allege that the video was made with computer drafting - it's always easy to play the devil's advocate and argue opposite to reality, but there has been, until now, no evidence to suggest otherwise.

itsalebaron
03-22-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


I think you've hit the nail on the head. People are crying about the vids being edited, and i've challenged them several times to find me more evidence to prove otherwise, and they have yet to come up with any. I did not edit these videos, and I don't care whether they were edited. The first video is the worst, where a clearly injured person (regardless of what he was doing previous to being injured), is lying on the floor rolling in agony. He was then shot, and the soldier commented "It felt good to do it".

Pretty soon, some of the thread posters are going to allege that the video was made with computer drafting - it's always easy to play the devil's advocate and argue opposite to reality, but there has been, until now, no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Who was crying about the videos being edited? All I see is people who are concerned that the ifo they are being presented is full, complete and accurate. Though it seems like you don't care that your information for making your descions carries these characteristics.

Just because evidence against it has not been presented does not make the context that your present them reality. Though I am sure with your strict criteria fgor believable video you WOULD trust a video made with computer drafting ......





AS LONG AS IT WAS ANTI AMERICAN LOL

itsalebaron
03-22-2004, 11:38 PM
LOL I was using the videos being edited as an example as to how you don't care as long as its against the US .... you said it yourself.. I wasn't the only one claiming there is more to a story then 25 seconds of a video clip.


And I have to keep repeating myself because you always try to walk around the facts. DO you honestly believe there is not more to those stroies then what you see? I never once took a side, for all I know there could be even more or a story AGAINST the Americans... I don't care either way. I would like to base my opinions on a full story I don't see why that is such a hard concept for you to understand.

Weapon_R
03-22-2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by itsalebaron


Who was crying about the videos being edited? All I see is people who are concerned that the ifo they are being presented is full, complete and accurate. Though it seems like you don't care that your information for making your descions carries these characteristics.

Just because evidence against it has not been presented does not make the context that your present them reality. Though I am sure with your strict criteria fgor believable video you WOULD trust a video made with computer drafting ......



Don't think I mentioned you in my previous post, but now that I think about it, it must've been you crying about them...but everyone does what they do best :thumbsup:

And once again, show me the full story. I think i'm sounding like a broken record, but I think you'd be the best guy to ask since you already know that these videos must be fake/edited lol. Anyways, since you have not yet proved it otherwise, the videos stand as a reminder about what we don't see. If I am wrong, prove me otherwise, with evidence! Not baseless assumptions. Otherwise, is there really a point in this argument at all?

itsalebaron
03-23-2004, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


Don't think I mentioned you in my previous post, but now that I think about it, it must've been you crying about them...but everyone does what they do best :thumbsup:

And once again, show me the full story. I think i'm sounding like a broken record, but I think you'd be the best guy to ask since you already know that these videos must be fake/edited lol. Anyways, since you have not yet proved it otherwise, the videos stand as a reminder about what we don't see. If I am wrong, prove me otherwise, with evidence! Not baseless assumptions. Otherwise, is there really a point in this argument at all?

Well seeing as you cannot take sarcasm or admit that there are actual contexts which make a situation different then 30 seconds of the whole may show, good for you, it will get you far in life I am sure. I do not need evidence that there is more to the story. If I told you either the outcome or proper context then I would have provided evidence. All I said was that is not the COMPLETE story. And you are making baseless assumptions. Show me proof that the third segement is an American helicopter, show me the "marines" the reporter states in the CNN clip they are not refering to the royal marines of the UK. I would like to see the video clip that explains this, and until then its all "baseless assumptions". (And please do not think I am being serious here.. I know I need to spell out the sarcasm, but using your own arguments might be the only way you might understand something.) I don't know why you take it so personal when someone doesn't take your side. In fact I took absolutly no sides at all, just stated a fact like Ben did that there is more to the story. Perhaps you can be the BEYOND dictator and make us all conform to your 30 seconds clips which you base your extensive knowledge on.

I won't go on argueing the fact that there exists more in life that what you choose to search out. Have a good night I will look forward to more educational clips in the future from such a bright guy:poosie:

Redlyne_mr2
03-23-2004, 01:25 AM
Debating weither or not these vid clips do a good job at portraying american soldiers is sort of irrelevant. Bottom line the US army is run by a treachourous government. Many of their soldiers are abusive hillbillies on power trips who commit horrible acts against those who are weaker than them. Perfect example are the 6 US soldiers facing criminal charges for harmful acts agaisnt Iraqi prisoners. To hell with the US and it's Nazi regime

Weapon_R
03-23-2004, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Debating weither or not these vid clips do a good job at portraying american soldiers is sort of irrelevant. Bottom line the US army is run by a treachourous government. Many of their soldiers are abusive hillbillies on power trips who commit horrible acts against those who are weaker than them. Perfect example are the 6 US soldiers facing criminal charges for harmful acts agaisnt Iraqi prisoners. To hell with the US and it's Nazi regime

Apparently not, since we have a genius (who undoubtedly measures his intelligence by the size of his biceps=IQ) who will claim that all of the evidence is incomplete. The video of the Iraqi who had his taxi run over by an American tank couldn't have been true, either, since our genius has said that there is always more to a story than is otherwise shown.


Itsalebaron: I have decided that you are right about what you said. I must have been completely wrong about the videos. Apparently, I got my facts mixed up. It wasn't an american helicopter, nor was it an American marine bragging about shooting the Iraqi civilian. Something happened during the recording, and it turned out that I found out the truth. It was really the Iraqi ruthlessly killing the American soldier, and it was an Iraqi helicopter weeding out the Americans. Sorry for the confusion. In the interest of ensuring that this discussion remain open for intelligent posters, I have decided that you are right and I am wrong about the videos - once again, the videos are all untrue people - they are really just computer aided renditions. :thumbsup:

Back on topic!:thumbsup:

mo_virgin
03-23-2004, 01:51 AM
War... What is it good for... Absolutely nothing

I just don't think this argument is validable, being in a situation where you kill or RISK being killed is not something where you can sit down and have a board meeting to map out your decision

Khyron
03-24-2004, 12:47 AM
Leaving someone out to bleed to death seems crueler than killing them outright.

And some of you seem to forget that the soldiers the US are fighting are far more barbaric and sadistic than anything CNN will show you. You think you'll get video of Saddams army torture chambers, or the Serbian rape squads? My internation political science teacher was pretty high up with the UN and he said that some of the Genocide charges were so horrific he could barely sleep at night.

US soldiers don't go around slitting civilian womens throats, burning children with gasoline and disembowling the men. How about burying babies up to their heads and then kicking the heads off with army boots? We should just ignore that too hrm?

I believe these soldiers are Somalian - but I guess the US was wrong to interfere here as well?

Kidbeat (http://www.nexus-point.net/video/kidbeat.asf)

Edit: Oops I thought this was the one where they shot him in the back.

I'm not fond of Bush's foreign policy in Iraq - but to compare the US military to Nazi's just speaks volumes of ignorance. Unless you can come up with a better solution. I will take being a prisoner of the US over any middle eastern country any day thanks.

I have the full heli vid - the first guy tosses a bazooka into the bushes, they ask for confirmation a bunch of times then shoot. They shoot the guy out in the field then jump immediately to the kid being interviewed - how do you know how much time passed or if they are even talking about the same incident?

Khyron

403Gemini
03-24-2004, 12:07 PM
*shakes head* weapon_r your 3rd video, you know the one with you geneva convention, yea that video has been floating around for about a good 6 months now. the trucks had rpg's in them... so why would they wanna take a chance allowing that last guy to crawl to the truck to blow up a million dollar helicopter and kill american soldiers? :dunno:

because they arent carrying firearms doesnt mean there arent any near by. its like me walking down the street with a gun in my jacket. just cause its not in my hand doesnt mean im not armed

edit: and no im not picking sides, im with ben on this one. the rest of the video was CUT weapon_r. it no longer exists. the video was put on the net for hippy hating bush fans. me? i hate bush too, but i dont hate canadian or american soldiers. their lives are just as valuable as everybody elses. what if your brother/father/friend was in that helicopter weapon_r, would you want him to wait for him to have a rocket possibly blow the fuck outta him before he can "fire back"

Akagi Redsuns
03-24-2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by 403Gemini
[Bsnip........

edit: and no im not picking sides, im with ben on this one. the rest of the video was CUT weapon_r. it no longer exists. .........snip [/B]

How can a video no longer exist? What?...only one copy on VHS.....a quick segment encoding of the above edited video and then thrown in the fire never to be seen again? You think it would be more widely distributed than the edited version to disprove it's bias in the way it's edited.

403Gemini
03-24-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Akagi Redsuns


How can a video no longer exist? What?...only one copy on VHS.....a quick segment encoding of the above edited video and then thrown in the fire never to be seen again? You think it would be more widely distributed than the edited version to disprove it's bias in the way it's edited.

your right, then you look for the full length :rolleyes:

and if your saying there is no full length, then how did that helicopter get there? how did it see 3 guys? did *POOF* magically this scenario somehow happened with no explaination or reasoning? thats stupid

Khyron
03-24-2004, 02:40 PM
The longer vid is out there - I would host it but it's like 15 megs which means you bastards will eat a bazillion megs of bandwidth. Maybe when I get home I'll put it up for a day or something.

Khyron

3g4me
03-24-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Z_Fan
I'm really happy that there are people in the world who are willing to kill other people in War. Innocent or not. The point is that it isn't easy for a lot of these guys to pull the trigger. You can hear that in the voice of the gunship pilot. He doesn't want to kill the poor guy, but does it anyway. It is his job, nothing more.

As for the first video, really I don't see much wrong with it. Kill the bastard. He was likely initially resisting and firing back, we just see the end of him. Show me 5 minutes before when he was happily firing his weapon at US forces...

You think when a small group of rebels blows up a jeep in convoy and it kills 4 US soldiers that they don't cheer? You bet your ass they do. So fuck them! Rebels are using lethal force in their combat tactics (terror tactics really). The US has to do what is necessary, lethal force is required to remove the threat, so lethal force is used. Seems fair enough to me.

:werd:

403Gemini
03-25-2004, 12:21 AM
IMO the 3rd video is just like the rodney king video. all you see is what appears to be "innocents" gettin the shit kicked/blown outta em, if you dont know the story, why base an opinion?

itsalebaron
03-25-2004, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by 403Gemini
IMO the 3rd video is just like the rodney king video. all you see is what appears to be "innocents" gettin the shit kicked/blown outta em, if you dont know the story, why base an opinion?

LOL thats what I have been saying all along... I don't know why some people were getting so worked up :dunno:

Toma
03-26-2004, 12:40 AM
LOL....come on guys, surely by now you realize the geneva convetion, international law, and the war crimes tribunals do not apply to the US and its terrorist unilateral actions.

They'll get what's comin' to them sooner or later.... what goes around, comes around.

403Gemini
03-26-2004, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by Toma
LOL....come on guys, surely by now you realize the geneva convetion, international law, and the war crimes tribunals do not apply to the US and its terrorist unilateral actions.

They'll get what's comin' to them sooner or later.... what goes around, comes around.

what? are you saying they deserved 9-11?

i believe if you wanna fight, fine fight soldiers. why kill innocent people tho?

tommy1223
03-26-2004, 01:40 AM
wow guys...face it, it's a war and SOMEONE"S gonna die.
either you kill the enemy or they kill you.

i would of done the same if i was in a war.

Dj_Stylz
03-26-2004, 08:31 AM
Thats sad:thumbsdow

Toma
03-26-2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by tommy1223
wow guys...face it, it's a war and SOMEONE"S gonna die.
either you kill the enemy or they kill you.

i would of done the same if i was in a war.

Well, it's fine if YOU would have, but the point is it is illegal, and it is not SUPPOSED to happen.

Hence what WAR CRIMES are, and why there are people on trial for the same types of things the US does all the time ;)

The "oh well, it's war" attitude then must mean you support terrorism, cause after wall... it's "war" ;)

Khyron
03-26-2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Toma
[B] Hence what WAR CRIMES are, and why there are people on trial for the same types of things the US does all the time ;)


And again, you talk out your ass. Shooting a soldier in a battlefield which you only see one fraction of the situation is just a bit different than gang raping civilians or enforcing genocide. But I suppose you'd rather be taken prisoner by the North Korean Army or perhaps the Iranian military as opposed to the US?

Maybe if the US just nukes the problem and ends it, then we can talk about war crimes.

I don't recall bitching when the US got involved in Somalia, or Yugoslavia. And again, you never mention what they SHOULD do. If it was up to me, I'd go back to isolationism and let them all rot but you can't just leave a country to be ruled by a mob overnight.

Khyron

itsalebaron
03-26-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Khyron


But I suppose you'd rather be taken prisoner by the North Korean Army or perhaps the Iranian military as opposed to the US?



Excellent point :thumbsup: though I doubt you will get an answer.

Hypothetical situation: You could have your choice of the US the way it is now with the power it has, or North Korea, Iraq, or Iran occupying the same territory, same population as the US has now, same financial situation, with the same amount of power. Who would you honestly want as our neighbours, and the super powers of the world?

hjr
03-26-2004, 01:45 PM
THANK GOD THERE WERE NO CAMARA'S IN WW II.

I have talked to old times on a few occasions about their experiences in the war. They all say they didnt care about the enemy. Kill the fuckers. Fair fight or not, if you got a chance to kill a "jap" or "kraut" then you did it, absolutely no questions asked. And no one felt bad about it. they were all doing it. on both sides. 1 guy told me about his days with the marines island hopping in SE asia. when the had finally cleared an island and rounded up all the prisoners they would send a few guys to "escort" them with machine guns to the lock up. needless to say there was no lock-up and the men came back 10 mins later with hot barrels and hundreds of japanese dead down the road. They had no time or room or provisions for prisoners of war. And you can damn well bet the Japanese were no less harsh on their prisoners.

You may think this is bad. In civilian terms yes it is. I could not even imagine myself in that situation. its pretty sickening, but in war you are desensitized to killing and all you know is that you hate the other guy cause they got you brother, or friend, or something.

War is a terrible thing, but there is no way we can judge the correct course of action for these men to take, they are putting their lives on the line (for good or bad reason, they could still die). none of us can say we know what thats like. It probably does feel good to kill some guy who would be out the next day trying to kill you or your buddies. I have a tough time blaming the soldiers as a group for what happens. Its the fucking cowboy US government put them in that situation where they have to be mean cocks that is to blame.


Now what is fucked up is the germans treatment of jewish and slavick civilians and the japanese treat chinese civilians. totally reprehensible. Mindless killing. Forget about guys in iraq that are hypnotised in religious ferver enough to try and kill americans, let them die. this world needs less extremists. The shit in somolia a few months ago is what we should really be caring about. there is a history of genocide in africa and a history of the west ignoring it. thats the real crime.

Khyron
03-26-2004, 01:58 PM
True about the WW2 which is part of the reason for having guidelines for humane warfare. Even if it's only followed 20% of the time.


The shit in somolia a few months ago is what we should really be caring about. there is a history of genocide in africa and a history of the west ignoring it. thats the real crime. [/B]

Now THAT's a point I can agree with Toma about. There is no doubt that the US is far more interested in the Middle East and spends far more resources there than Africa simply because of oil. But to paint the entire military with the Nazi brush is absurd and makes him look like a tree-hugging anti-war hippie that clings to his big V8 engines and big screen TVs, yet expects others to provide the means.

Khyron

Alpine Autowerks
03-26-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Perfect example are the 6 US soldiers facing criminal charges for harmful acts agaisnt Iraqi prisoners.


Does that mean...because the US will prosecute their own soldiers for criminal behaveur they are monsters ? Did Sadam ever charge his own goons with crimes ?

Redlyne_jr
03-30-2004, 10:16 PM
That disgustin that video on how they can kill innocent people :confused: :eek:

hjr
03-31-2004, 02:03 AM
wow, good thing you didnt read the whole thread other wise you might look like an idiot.....

oh wait, thats what happens when you DONT read the whole thread

403Gemini
03-31-2004, 03:42 AM
while i do agree that in war you kill your enemy thats the way it is. they arent fuckin peace keepers, they shoot the enemy. they dont go "hey lets fly our helicopter and wait for RPG's to lock onto us! yaaaaay lets kiss our asses good bye and our tax payers tons of money for a machine that just went down the train"

id hafta disagree a tad bit with you hjr. not ALL vets were like that in ww2. some of the ones i talked to met german soldiers face to face. hell they exchanged cigarettes and shook hands and walked away.

some people viewed it as humans, not just racism.

whats a soldier? a man doing his job to defend his country. its not his fault if he disagrees with his leader, he does his job. lets face it, we do shit that our bosses tell us to do and we may hate it. and dont even try and play the card "my job is diferent cause all i gotta do is stock shelves" or whatever it is the fuck you gotta do. a soldiers job is to kill. if hes told to kill people, he does it.

but yes there was a lot of hate amoungst soldiers, especially ones who saw their friends die (which was about 99.9% of the soldiers)

i actually read a story of a japanese piolet from pearl harbor ran into an american soldier who fought in pearl harbor. now they're best friends. could you imagine that?

the thing that pisses me off is the war was over 60 years ago. granted it shouldnt be forgotten but i hate SOME (not all) members of the jewish community are still trying to strike up lawsuits with the FAMILIES of the german soldiers. im german, and my grand father fought in ww2 but for the allies and my uncle recieved a letter from a jewish family demanding reparations (i dunno if im using the right word its 2:40 am lol). my uncle pretty much told em to fuck off and leave him alone cause they dont know shit.

*shakes head* the worlds full of different people.

but this in war: killing civilians is wrong. i personally think the governments of all countries should band together soldiers and have a global police vs terroism and genoicide and the like. Samolia coulda been avoided from its crazy genocide if this happened. WW2 coulda been stopped before it started if somebody stepped in on hitler when he invaded poland. he (hitler) even admitted that the 1st 24 hrs of him invading poland was the most painful. if anybody stepped in, he would have had to back out. what did england do instead of send military? they sent him a letter saying "What you are doing is wrong"

what a fuckin joke

Weapon_R
03-31-2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by 403Gemini

id hafta disagree a tad bit with you hjr. not ALL vets were like that in ww2. some of the ones i talked to met german soldiers face to face. hell they exchanged cigarettes and shook hands and walked away.



On a lighter note, did you know that Nazi soldiers and Allied soldiers often engaged in soccor games in no mans land during major holidays such as Christmas and Easter? No shots were fired during those holidays.

403Gemini
04-01-2004, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Weapon_R


On a lighter note, did you know that Nazi soldiers and Allied soldiers often engaged in soccor games in no mans land during major holidays such as Christmas and Easter? No shots were fired during those holidays.


exactally