questions about poor gas mileage when towing

[03ozwhip]

alright, so I sold my trailer. it was a 25ish foot "lite" trailer at only about 4300 lbs empty. I have a 2013 Ram 1500 that I pulled it with and it is just horrible on gas when I tow.

I know it's not normal conditions as I was driving through some heavy rain and winds and up hills yesterday with it, but I got about 28l/100km in the 2.5 hours of driving.

my dilemma is, if I do end up getting another trailer next year, I don't know if I want to use my truck or if I want to get a diesel. my truck is my daily 2013, paid off and I love it and don't want to get rid of it or have another truck payment

that being said, is there anything else I can do to help the gas mileage and not get rid of the truck or is it pretty well inevitable?

dunno wtf to do.

[revelations]

The inevitable questions are:

- why use a 4ton vehicle as a DD (if not towing)?
- how often would you be towing ?


Gas mileage depends of so many factors. Your foot is probably the biggest one though.

[03ozwhip]

ya that's my issue. I don't need a diesel as a daily but pretty frequently I would be towing in the spring/summer. my foot isn't the issue, I go the speed limit or less when pulling a trailer and I use the tow/haul function in the truck.

maybe I'm over thinking it and the gas mileage/new truck would balance out...

[carson blocks]

Unless you're camping a few hours away every weekend, you'd be hard pressed to see the fuel savings make a dent in the payment. I prefer the 2500 diesel myself, but be aware of the increased maintenance costs, and the fact that the 2500 4x4 doesn't fit in airport or many downtown parkades, where the 1500 4x4 does easily. Like revelations said, just slow down if you need to save money. My 2016 1500 with the 8 speed is great on fuel, but pulling my loaded toyhauler will be over 30l/100km at 120km/h, and down to 20 or under at 90-95 km/h if my faulty memory serves correct.

[spike98]

I think the answer here is that you will get shit economy when towing anything compared to non-towing economy regardless of if it is gas or diesel or whatever.

Stick with the paid off truck that you love, and tow with it. A recreational tower will never pay off the premium of a diesel let alone a new truck.

[J-hop]

I wonder if those wind deflectors would help?


Also if you were to throw on a few bolt ons I wonder if you could free up a few mpg (headers, exhaust) as it won't have to work as hard.

[03ozwhip]

Originally posted by J-hop
I wonder if those wind deflectors would help?


Also if you were to throw on a few bolt ons I wonder if you could free up a few mpg (headers, exhaust) as it won't have to work as hard.

This was something I was hoping someone might suggest. I thought about it but I don't know if those and/or a tune might help the situation.

thanks for the replies guys, giving me something to think about.

[mzdspd]

Your mileage sounds about right for what you are towing.. Best way to improve mileage is to slow down. Let off the throttle a bit too when you are going up hills to keep out of the high revs..

You are putting a larger load on your engine and highly decreasing the aerodynamics of the vehicle so I would not expect a tune to do much. Also, from my experience with tunes, you will need a higher octane or else your truck will get bad knock (KR). So paying more for gas will decrease your savings

[revelations]

- aero kits
- highway-rated tires (instead of mud rated)
- tune up (plugs, filters, FI cleaning)
- tire pressures checked
- reprogram ECU and shift points (my F250 v10 came with an aftermarket tool to do this)

You could potentially see a 10% increase if you did all this.

[s_havinga]

Agree with most people. I was in the same situation, towing a 28' bumper tow with a Chev 1500 with the 5.3. Upgraded to a 6.6 Duramax and my towing economy reduced by 10-12 l/100km but I would say my DD economy got about 2-3 l/100km worse. I don't drive much but maybe 3500 km /year towing and another 15000km/year DD'ing

So

3500km/year *10l/100 km = 350 L savings

15000 km / year * 2l/100 km = 300 L extra

I've never done the actual math on that but basically it is a wash for yearly fuel usage and It cost $10K more for the diesel truck. This year at least diesel has been slightly cheaper than gas so I guess there is a little savings there but all round, if you love your current truck, don't stress about the fuel usage- maybe install a slip tank if you find frequent fuel stops to be annoying (the 90L tank in the Chevy sucked for that.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by revelations
- aero kits
- highway-rated tires (instead of mud rated)
- tune up (plus, filters, FI cleaning)
- tire pressures checked
- reprogram ECU and shift points (my F250 v10 came with an aftermarket tool to do this)

You could potentially see a 10% increase if you did all this.

Exactly. It simply isn't worth it relative to the cost of fuel.

Weight and wind resistance are the two greatest factors in fuel consumption. Diesels are more efficient, but they also cost $5k plus over a comparable gas model.

One thing a lot of people don't realize is that its actually not the front aero that matters so much (it doesn't matter if the front of the trailer is sloped or angled, as the overall area required to make a certain size increases as you try to angle stuff down), but aero in the back makes a huge difference.

http://blogsdir.cms.rrcdn.com/10/files/2013/11/ATDynamics-TrailerTail.jpg

There is a reason you see semi's use these, and they'll work just as well on a travel trailer.

The new ecodiesel 1/2 tons are great and are rated for 9200lbs. They get about 3-4usmpg better towing mileage than my dmax does with a comparable load.

[AndyL]

But it's the side skirts ahead of that and reduction of air gap between truck and trailer - that makes the biggest difference. These boat tail devices are only good for a few % in addition (the other stuff is way more important).

There's some neat theoretical stuff about VGs on the back of trailers, and those old school air deflectors (the reversed wing on station wagons - forces air down onto rear window to keep it clear).

[Ca_Silvia13]

Originally posted by revelations
- aero kits
- highway-rated tires (instead of mud rated)
- tune up (plus, filters, FI cleaning)
- tire pressures checked
- reprogram ECU and shift points (my F250 v10 came with an aftermarket tool to do this)

You could potentially see a 10% increase if you did all this.

My brother runs a Diablo tuned 1500 Dodge Ram. In the tow mode, tuned, he got 3-4 MPG better than the un-tune motor. Transmission shift points also changed with the tuner which helped a bit.

More power at lower revs means you are not reving up (consume more gas) or working the motor as hard to generate the required power.


Make sure your lower chin spoiler (under the rad and under the bumper in front of the tires is still there) they always seem to get ripped off on these trucks.

[03ozwhip]

Originally posted by Ca_Silvia13


My brother runs a Diablo tuned 1500 Dodge Ram. In the tow mode, tuned, he got 3-4 MPG better than the un-tune motor. Transmission shift points also changed with the tuner which helped a bit.

More power at lower revs means you are not reving up (consume more gas) or working the motor as hard to generate the required power.


Make sure your lower chin spoiler (under the rad and under the bumper in front of the tires is still there) they always seem to get ripped off on these trucks.
just like any tune, like someone else said, I probably would have to use premium, is that not correct?

[Maxt]

Originally posted by spike98
I think the answer here is that you will get shit economy when towing anything compared to non-towing economy regardless of if it is gas or diesel or whatever.


My 3500 diesel always has a substantial load of tools in the back, adding a cargo hauler with a car in it doesn't change the mileage a whole lot.

[redline]

Originally posted by 03ozwhip

just like any tune, like someone else said, I probably would have to use premium, is that not correct?

I have a bully dog tuner for my truck and I have options for regular and premium gas tunes, the regular tune was good for a couple mpg while towing.m I have never tried the premium tune cause I have never wanted to run premium in the truck cause I have to in my other vehicles

I keep it under a 110km/hr while towing and my gas mileage is cut in half while towing

[ercchry]

The tow/haul button is probably contributing to the fuel usage, as it will keep your rpm higher... Try turning it off when not climbing hills

[spikerS]

I just took the kids camping to Drumheller. Roughly a 125km trip one way, pulling a 5500lbs tandem travel trailer.

On the way there....
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Snorakk/13895468_10154295521666368_8138252306414366588_n_zpsyfrmmuhd.jpg

On the way back...
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Snorakk/14088470_10154304002861368_3666778306124409112_n_zpswhxgdy2f.jpg

The way back was all mostly uphill and I was fighting a headwind...Having said that, my old F-150 got similar mileage to yours Cory, but it had 3.31 gearing in the rear end, and the new truck has 3.55 gearing, and it seems to be making the difference.

And FYI, I kept it in tow mode the whole way. What gearing does your 2013 have in the rear diff?

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by J-hop
I wonder if those wind deflectors would help?


Also if you were to throw on a few bolt ons I wonder if you could free up a few mpg (headers, exhaust) as it won't have to work as hard.

At the end of the day, pulling a brick of a certain size and shape through the air at a certain speed requires x horsepower. That x horsepower requires a specific amount of fuel. Some bolt-ons may help efficiency, but I doubt you'd see enough savings as an occasional tower to justify it.

From a quick look at Jegs online, pulling some very rough numbers on decent but not top end parts, and converting to CAD$:

JBA 1 5/8" Shorty headers - $685 (The $300 chinese specials will be rotted / cracked off a winter-used daily driver in no time)
Flowmaster 3" Catback - $975
3" Cats - $360 (why do headers and catback and leave factory cats)
Bully Dog Triple Dog - $560 (a nice touchscreen tuner is worth the extra $200 for your towing app, as you can change modes on the fly, view trans temps etc. The old school handheld ones aren't worth it IMO)
Volant Cold Air Intake - $520 (The $200 ricer eBay underhood hot air intake cones are pointless IMO)

So for the usual basic bolt-ons, you're $3100. You might save some bucks with clever shopping, as I spent only 5 minutes on this but you don't want cheap shit parts, especially on a DD. Gas is about 92.9, so you'll need to save 3337 litres of fuel for your mods to pay off.

Let's be super generous and say your mods save you 2l/100km unloaded and a whopping 5l/100km towing (They totally won't, but some people make some unreal claims to justify their mods) Assuming an average driver does 24,000km a year and let's say you tow a TON, a painful 250km each way and you're a hardcore camper and go out 10 times (that's every second weekend from the may long to the end of september) for a whopping 5000 towing kms a year. 2l/100km x 24000km is 480l saved, and 5l/100km x 5000kms is another 250l. 730l a year means your break-even point for the mods is 4.57 years before you save a dime.

Let's use some less unrealistic numbers of 1l/100km unloaded, 2.5l/100km towing, and a more reasonable 2500 towed km per year. 1L/100km x 24000km is 240l saved, 2.5l/100km x 2500km is 62.5l saved, and your break-even point skyrockets to 11.03 years before you start saving money.

I love mods, but be realistic with what you expect to save, how many miles you'll do loaded and empty, and do the math. I don't think you'll ever make it pay off. If you're towing more than in my first example, treat yourself to that 3500 Cummins!

[Maxt]

Originally posted by spikerS
I just took the kids camping to Drumheller. Roughly a 125km trip one way, pulling a 5500lbs tandem travel trailer.

On the way there....
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Snorakk/13895468_10154295521666368_8138252306414366588_n_zpsyfrmmuhd.jpg

On the way back...
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Snorakk/14088470_10154304002861368_3666778306124409112_n_zpswhxgdy2f.jpg
Why does that seem so brutal even for towing.

[codetrap]

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[03ozwhip]

thanks guys. I don't know what my gearing is tbh, the truck came with a tow package so I can only assume it came with the proper gearing for towing.

I have averaged around the 21-22 Mark before, but this was just a ridiculous amount so it made me really think about getting rid of it.

I think you guys have swayed my decision, I think I'm going to keep what I have.

[Maxt]

What it looks like to me is the trade off for better mileage empty with a smaller engined truck, is way worse loaded mileage when you work it hard. So as others said before, it pays to really look at what the intended purpose is for the majority of its use.

It reminds me of my old Dodge w-150 on 35's with steel heavy bumpers/nerf bars etc, going from a mild 318 to a built 440 resulted in a gas mileage increase.

[legendboy]

I have a 6.7 cummins ram that is my daily driver and tow machine.
normally I average around 14l/100 in the city and around 19-20 towing 9700lb dry 30' bumper pull trailer

and the diesel is fun to drive with some mods and a tuner. I have a minimaxx

[Maxt]

^ that's more in line with my srt10 than my 5.9 cummins.

[codetrap]

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[Darell_n]

My new '16 F-150 5.0 is making around 17.0 L/100km. Can't wait to see how good it is with a trailer behind it. My same setup with a Chev 6.0 and Spacekap was at 23.0 L/100 km.

[AndyL]

Have a good read through of this
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/programs/environment-etv-menu-eng-2939.html

Drafting - they call it platooning - works great even on other RVs - lead vehicle even saves on fuel...

Aussies have some good info on VGs on trailers, one of the RV.net folks has some pseudo scientific testing of his brand-name VGs on his tonneau cover - don't remember if it helped or not though.

[AndyL]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i277/cgyreefer/FB_IMG_1472395584533_zpsietbuozf.jpg

That was pulling a ~5000lb 5th down 22 during a wind warning down to kookanusa. (12 ram 1500 4.7/6spd)

Yeah first 3 trips were in the 20s - homemade VGs on trailer TE, deflector mounted behind cab to fill air gap- 5th pulled forward as far as possible (couldn't swing past 45° without contact), plywood covers to fill areas beside and behind hitch...

There is a lot you can do if you're willing to put the time into it.

[ExtraSlow]

28 l/100km isn't unusual when towing through wind and rain. Calm, dry conditions could save you a four or five from that number.

My opinion is that because I two less than 10% of my yearly mileage, I buy a truck that is capable of towing, and worry more about unloaded mileage.

If you are towing a higher percentage of the time, diesel starts to make sense. But if this is a one time thing, don't freak out and spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to save ten bucks in fuel.

[spikerS]

^^ Exactly.

Savings by virtue oh how many KMs you drive daily will more than offset the towing numbers.

if your mileage increases by 10l/100k, for a standard 3 hour drive, you are gonna pay about $60 in extra fuel. do that trip 5 times a summer, you spend an extra $300.

The added costs to get a replacement truck with a diesel to save that $300 is going to be a lot more than $300.

If you want to save some money for towing, put a full size topper on your truck and put a small wind deflector on it.

[AndyL]

Depends how you run - guarantee the mods I did - might have run 50$ scrap pile was well raided though ;)

For me it was a technical challenge - extend vacation distance by cheap / easy mods. There was C$ in bank for fuel on vacation, I like to roam and explore, farther I can roam - happier I am.

And now with carbon tax - fuel costs about to spike, it'll make a bigger difference going forward.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by spikerS
^^ Exactly.

Savings by virtue oh how many KMs you drive daily will more than offset the towing numbers.

if your mileage increases by 10l/100k, for a standard 3 hour drive, you are gonna pay about $60 in extra fuel. do that trip 5 times a summer, you spend an extra $300.

The added costs to get a replacement truck with a diesel to save that $300 is going to be a lot more than $300.

If you want to save some money for towing, put a full size topper on your truck and put a small wind deflector on it.

I know people say the ecoboost is awful on mileage when towing, but with just the regular P rated SRA's... I think I averaged somewhere around 24-25l/100 with a 8k trailer (no water) and full occupants.

My buddy's similarly sized 8 foot Cummins was averaging like 19-20... so IMO I'm not doing so bad.

Once you put on the eply tires, lift etc.. kiss the mileage goodbye

[Masked Bandit]

I find that speed and wind make the biggest difference. We were out last week and 1000 KM going one way with a bit of a tail wind got me 22 L / 100 KM. Coming back, moderate head wind, 33 L / 100 KM. Both directions were at 110 KPH. If I'm somewhere that I'm pulling at 90 KPH, I can get 21 - 22 with no wind. This is pulling a 28 ft. trailer, guessing about 8000 LBS loaded with a 2010 Ram 1500 5.7L with tow package.

[italianstylez]

Just come see me I'll give you a good deal on a duramax haha

dodge trans suck. They don't like tuners. I've gone through 4 total, my 14 1500s is going too warranty ftw.

[TurboMedic]

My Jeep Ecodiesel towing about 6500lbs will do 16.5 l/100km towing, regardless of where typically. Thats into BC through the passes, etc, at 110-120km/h. It pulls it fairly effortlessly as well. I towed the same trailer with my Sport trac with the 4.6V8 and it got 27 l/100km, barely 300km to a tank. I can get 600km to a tank easy now.

The bonus is the unloaded economy, I road tripped and made it to Comox on a single tank! Even with 4 adults, 7 cases of wine and luggage, it still did 8.7 l/100km all through the okanagen loop road trip. These are all calculated values as well, not EVIC reporting

Example, I fill up here, can tow to kelowna without filling, although I'll usually just stop in sicamous or vernon for ease of access.

Now, to wait for the lineup of haters talking about pulling 23ft and 6500lbs with a grand cherokee

[codetrap]

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