Fair Alberta Roads - Lobby group.

[16hypen3sp]

Lobby group for 3 key issues:

Photo enforcement
Low speed limits
Left lane bandits

This group wants to lobby the government for positive changes.

I'm posting for exposure.
They are also on facebook.

https://fairalbertaroads.ca/

[jacky4566]

Good. I'm almost inclined to fund them!

But I don't really understand the argument on photo enforcement. If that's the law it should be enforceable under any reasonable circumstance no?

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by jacky4566
Good. I'm almost inclined to fund them!

But I don't really understand the argument on photo enforcement. If that's the law it should be enforceable under any reasonable circumstance no?

If I understand it correctly, it sounds as if they want to do away with the hiding behind walls and bushes and what not.

Not to do away with PE entirely, just the hiding crap.

[max_boost]

Good. Follow BC

[dubhead]

Originally posted by jacky4566
Good. I'm almost inclined to fund them!

But I don't really understand the argument on photo enforcement. If that's the law it should be enforceable under any reasonable circumstance no?

At the end of the day don't speed don't get photo radar tickets, seems like a nice revenue generated for those who feel they are above the rules the revenue lost will just end up being bled from us another way.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by dubhead


At the end of the day don't speed don't get photo radar tickets, seems like a nice revenue generated for those who feel they are above the rules the revenue lost will just end up being bled from us another way.
It's not always as nicely cut and dried as that. There are times where you have to use the pedal, and the CPS has been camping out in these spots, where you really have no choice. I took the time the other day to phone the CPS for that exact reason and they really didn't seem to care, so I would support a pressure group like the above.
The photo radar van was on the South Barlow trail heading north right after the 60 sign on the right, where the 2 deerfoot ramps merge together. I had to cross the lanes of traffic in rush hour from the southbound deerfoot ramp, I was coming off northbound deerfoot and trying to turn right on 114 th ave. The limit on deerfoot is 100, the ramp is yellow'ed at 80, the speed limit right before the 114th drops to 60, then immediately rises to 70 right after the light, to merge to make 114th ave, you have to match the speed of the ramp traffic which is 80+, and do it right in front of the Van. I saw the van, had to keep one eyeball on the speedo to try to keep to 60, move the other eyball to merge, pushed my way through traffic, almost got rear ended by people who didn't see the van, got horn honked and the finger. It would have been much safer without the photo radar there enforcing that silly drop to 60. I think the only reason its there is for the camera, much like 16th ave and 68 st ne, just a speed capture zone.
I had to laugh at the CPS Chief saying its impossible to get a clear story and context out of an incident when 2 officers are on full color video with audio beating someones head in for 45 seconds, but hey they get the full context of your driving situation in a still black and white photo.
As for the taxation, when is government ever satisfied with what they get, even if you let Photo radar proliferation go unabated, they are still coming with the next tax idea... Its not like they are satisfied with the revenue now.

[Thaco]

if they just upped the speed limit there wouldn't be need for wasting police resources on the highways... montana has a 130 limit most places, and you never see cops, it self regulates, those who have deep pockets for gas, are the only ones who can speed anyway, the fuel economy tanks above 110, and it helps our economy with more fuel sales.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
It has become all about profits in Alberta, they are dependent on them for revenue now. There is just no way the province or the cities will be interested in safety over profits at this point :dunno:
Precisely. I believe it was this summer that city council approved 50 new CPS jobs due to an unexpected rise from ticket revenue when the fines were increased. I get that we need more cops, but relying on ticket revenue to pay for them now means we have to rely on that same revenue next year to pay for those jobs.

Oh yea, city council unanimously voted for that.

[killramos]

Not sure what people expect when every year they expect more infrastructure, more services, more funding for this, more art for that. Oh yea and please don't raise my taxes to pay for it.

Albertans are, always have been, and always will be their own worst enemies.

Whether its ticket revenue, taxes for carbons coming out of your car, hidden taxes on the gas you use, whatever until people stop asking for shit they don't want to pay for the government will keep finding creative "revenue tools" to pay for their stupid election promises that people lap up like rabid dogs.

Even the "fiscal conservative" WR are guilty of it, just the other day I saw them putting together a proposal to make parking at hospitals free for everyone. Who is going to pay for that? I guarantee it costs the average albertan far more than the amount they pay in day to day parking fees to visit sick loved ones.

Speeding ticket revenue is just the tip of the iceberg, I hope we see a breakdown next year on how much money is collected from car registration delinquency after nerfing the reminders.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by dubhead
At the end of the day don't speed don't get photo radar tickets, seems like a nice revenue generated for those who feel they are above the rules the revenue lost will just end up being bled from us another way.

What exactly prevents the city from setting the speed limit to 60km/h on Deerfoot? If the city did that and set up photo radar everywhere on Deerfoot, would your attitude still be the same? The attitude of "it's the law, so obey it" is a little oversimplified as we are (in theory) the ones that help make those laws.

[schocker]

Originally posted by Feruk
What exactly prevents the city from setting the speed limit to 60km/h on Deerfoot? If the city did that and set up photo radar everywhere on Deerfoot, would your attitude still be the same? The attitude of "it's the law, so obey it" is a little oversimplified as we are (in theory) the ones that help make those laws.

We already have ridiculous speed limits all over. When you have roads like crowchild/stoney/deerfoot where the majority of drivers are doing more than the limit, its not the drivers that are wrong, it is the speed limit.

[killramos]

The problem is we have our limits based on the lowest common denominator on the worst day of winter all year. With that criteria they are all completely reasonable. Variable speed limits and perhaps restricting vehicles over a certain weight to the right lane ( would be pure lulz if that weight was set to be just under what most 1 tons come in at ) would allow greater safety, and much better speed and traffic flow.

[blindsight]

.

[lasimmon]

I was surprised when driving in BC the last 2 weeks that I was on two (TWO!) highways that had maximum speeds of 120 km/h.

[blindsight]

.

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by killramos
The problem is we have our limits based on the lowest common denominator on the worst day of winter all year.

If weather is bad, people will drive as fast (ie slow) as they feel comfortable. It hasn't been an issue in Colorado, and if I recall last time I drove there, it was 120kph and their weather is very similar to ours.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by blindsight
After driving to Phoenix last year, and driving to Mexico etc from there, I noticed that Calgary drivers are extremely aggressive compared to every city on our route.

I don't doubt there are areas in the city where speed limits are too low (I got nailed at the Bow Trail stretch by Crowchild weeks before they switched it from 60 to 80) but Calgary drivers are assholes. Period.

Speeding, blocking merges, blocking lane changes, zippering (both the lack of it as well as blocking people that try to do it), racing...

If they raise every speed limit in the city by 10km/hr people would still be drag racing in front of my house and through the playground zone. People would still be swerving 160km/hr on Deerfoot to get around the guy that beelined it for the left lane still doing 60.

There's no fix for this city, not with the way people drive here.
Can you blame me for being an asshole when the guy in the left lane going 60* is never told by anyone that his driving is not ok?
And then he'll see his exit coming up and brake down to 20* trying to get into the far right lane; and he continues to do this having driven this route every day in the same manner for the last 10 years.

*extreme values used as it feels like that's the speed he's going, but you all know exactly what I'm talking about.

[rage2]

Originally posted by lasimmon
I was surprised when driving in BC the last 2 weeks that I was on two (TWO!) highways that had maximum speeds of 120 km/h.
Yea, even some of their twisty highways had limits of 100km/h where I didn't feel comfortable driving at anything over that in a rented minivan.

[JustinL]

Originally posted by killramos
The problem is we have our limits based on the lowest common denominator on the worst day of winter all year.

That is actually incorrect. Our speed limits are for ideal conditions.

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/1951.htm


Speed limits do not indicate the maximum speed drivers should travel. They are the maximum speed permitted when conditions are ideal. Any speed that is unsafe for the current conditions is illegal.

[killramos]

lol there you go drinking the government koolaid.

Still has nothing to do with how they come up with the speed limits in the first place, just that they can still ticket you for going slower than that if they deem your rate of travel "unsafe".

Basically the whole point of this thread is that the laws have pretty well no basis in reality and should be changed in order to make more sense.

Can't cite a law as an argument when the debate is over whether the laws make sense in the first place.

[rage2]

Originally posted by JustinL
That is actually incorrect. Our speed limits are for ideal conditions.

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/1951.htm
Legally, sure. In practice, probably not. Then again, we're all car guys that run R compounds in the summer and the best studded winter tires money can buy, so maybe our metrics are a bit skewed. I mean, I've driven some shitboxes that shouldn't drive 80km/h on an icy day on Crowchild. :D

[ercchry]

Does anyone else notice that drivers are getting slower in Alberta? It feels like speeding is so taboo now... Till you travel outside the province. Ontario, rush hour on the 400 (100km/h speed limit) between Toronto and Barrie the average speed across all 3 lanes is 130, with opp sitting on the side of the hwy NOT pulling people over

Here? Well, just try and do more than 60 down Anderson :nut:

[JustinL]

Originally posted by killramos
lol there you go drinking the government koolaid.

Still has nothing to do with how they come up with the speed limits in the first place, just that they can still ticket you for going slower than that if they deem your rate of travel "unsafe".

Basically the whole point of this thread is that the laws have pretty well no basis in reality and should be changed in order to make more sense.

Can't cite a law as an argument when the debate is over whether the laws make sense in the first place.

Government koolaid? I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying. The government sets the speed limit for ideal conditions. So 100kph is what the government says is the maximum safe speed on a clear sunny day. If they set if for the "lowest common denominator" it would be much lower.

[rage2]

I've noticed that South Calgary drivers are way slower than North Calgary drivers lately. Weird because 5 years ago it was the other way around and I hated how slow people drove on Crowchild north of the Bow River.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by rage2
I've noticed that South Calgary drivers are way slower than North Calgary drivers lately. Weird because 5 years ago it was the other way around and I hated how slow people drove on Crowchild north of the Bow River.

I think it spreads much further than that, even ripping out to the interior it feels like the red plates are much slower than before. It's been a while since I've been in a pack of cars all doing 150+ coming up 6 mile hill :rofl:

Then again, with the higher BC limits its pretty common to come up on some local who refuses to drive over 90

[killramos]

Originally posted by JustinL


Government koolaid? I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying. The government sets the speed limit for ideal conditions. So 100kph is what the government says is the maximum safe speed on a clear sunny day. If they set if for the "lowest common denominator" it would be much lower.

So you are saying that 100kph is the maximum safe speed on an alberta highway on a perfect day? Do you even think the government thinks that?

Because the whole point of all this is that we inherently disagree and think the limits should be raised, potentially with the accommodation of variable limits..

Because i do agree that 100 is probably a pretty good bet for a c train taking a sharp ( for a highway ) corner on a nice day. Or a shitbox half falling apart with 10 year old bald tires and brakes full of air. But i would call that the lowest common denominator.

Beyond that I would say there is nothing automatically dangerous about travelling 100 even when its moderately snowing in January, when it is much more dangerous ( though still in my opinion not unsafe to be clear) to be driving than sunny clear day in July. But according to the law you are quoting as gospel I should really be driving much slower than that as its in less than ideal conditions. And if I am going 100 i should be fined.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by killramos
So you are saying that 100kph is the maximum safe speed on an alberta highway on a perfect day? Do you even think the government thinks that?
Of course they do... There is already a link where they state it for everyone to read. And that's the problem.

[JustinL]

Originally posted by killramos


So you are saying that 100kph is the maximum safe speed on an alberta highway on a perfect day? Do you even think the government thinks that?

Because the whole point of all this is that we inherently disagree and think the limits should be raised, potentially with the accommodation of variable limits..

Because i do agree that 100 is probably a pretty good bet for a c train taking a sharp ( for a highway ) corner on a nice day. Or a shitbox half falling apart with 10 year old bald tires and brakes full of air. But i would call that the lowest common denominator.

Beyond that I would say there is nothing automatically dangerous about travelling 100 even when its moderately snowing in January, when it is much more dangerous ( though still in my opinion not unsafe to be clear) to be driving than sunny clear day in July. But according to the law you are quoting as gospel I should really be driving much slower than that as its in less than ideal conditions. And if I am going 100 i should be fined.

I'll use bullet points because you seem intent on trying to argue.

-I'm trying to agree with you.

-I do think the speed limits in the province are ludicrously low.

-You said the government sets the limit for the worst day of the year. I corrected you and provided evidence that the government sets them for ideal conditions.

-This reinforces the fact that the limits are way too low because the government is not compensating for less than ideal conditions.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by Feruk

Of course they do... There is already a link where they state it for everyone to read. And that's the problem.

I think the distinction killramos might be trying to make is between the government actually thinking the speed limits are the maximum safe speed and just saying that to justify low speed limits to ensure revenue.

[max_boost]

the speed limits have been the same forever lol technology in cars have improved so much but nooooo it's for safety, don't speed! stfu gov't. it's all about the $$$$

[blindsight]

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[rage2]

Originally posted by blindsight
Get the 95 year olds off the road and maybe higher speeds will work.

Every time I see some skeleton swerving, doing 50 in an 80 zone because their reactions aren't good enough, I just want to run into something.

Technology in cars isn't going to help Skeletor see any better.
Old people: http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/fast-and-furious-anniversary-showing-meet-sunridge-edition/showthread.php?s=&postid=4577900#post4577900

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by ercchry
Does anyone else notice that drivers are getting slower in Alberta? It feels like speeding is so taboo now... Till you travel outside the province. Ontario, rush hour on the 400 (100km/h speed limit) between Toronto and Barrie the average speed across all 3 lanes is 130, with opp sitting on the side of the hwy NOT pulling people over

Here? Well, just try and do more than 60 down Anderson :nut:

I've noticed more people on Macleod going 50 lately. I don't know if I'm just noticing it more or if there actually is some substance to it.

[Calgaryscot]

Seems like the "unofficial speed" on Deerfoot and Stoney is 110 anyway, has anyone ever been issued a ticket for 110?

[rage2]

The unofficial speed on Stoney is 120-130. I got a ticket at 130 in the spring. First ticket in 5 years.

[Calgaryscot]

Originally posted by rage2
The unofficial speed on Stoney is 120-130. I got a ticket at 130 in the spring. First ticket in 5 years.

I mean the speed you can drive without fear of a ticket, I think you would get ticketed for 20 or 30 over on both roads?

[rage2]

I'm just talking about the flow of traffic.

[lilmira]

I find myself not driving over the speed limit by much on open highway with little traffic. On busy road like crowchild I'll do whatever to stay ahead of the lemmings. Once I find my buffer zone I'll slow down again. If everyone is driving good in a good pace, I'm happy to stay where I am. Half of time in the morning on crowchild, everyone is flowing pretty good. After work, the traffic on crowchild never disappoint to frustrate me.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by blindsight
Get the 95 year olds off the road and maybe higher speeds will work.

Every time I see some skeleton swerving, doing 50 in an 80 zone because their reactions aren't good enough, I just want to run into something.

Technology in cars isn't going to help Skeletor see any better.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37292951

[HiTempguy1]

Both accidents I've been involved with had old people (60+) as the offenders.

Does the data show old drivers causing accidents for others? Its not the old people getting in accidents, its them blindly dog fucking down the road so everyone has to avoid them.

[jwslam]

^

The same data probably shows that cabbies are amazing drivers too!