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birdman86
10-13-2016, 02:48 PM
Hoping some of the beyond ballers can help out here.

My dad is at the point of retirement and has built a pretty comfy nest egg for himself, but has no interest in managing his investments anymore. Also, none of us kids want to take over the farm so he also has big tax and estate things to worry about too.

Does anyone use a private wealth manager? What kind of track records do these guys have? Who are you using? I sent a cold-email to McLean & Partners, but there's got to be tons of other offices in town that do it.

Short of it is I'm shopping around, looking for someone who will put in the time to build dad a solid retirement portfolio, work out a plan to liquidate the farm assets as retirement progresses, and most of all not eat up my inheritance in fees and losses. The typical mutual fund salesman won't cut it at this point. I'd like to collect info for a bunch of offices to feel out the track records and fee structures. Reputable names only of course. Last thing I want is for the family to blame me if we get ripped off by some Bernie Maddoff...

R-Audi
10-13-2016, 05:01 PM
I believe all major banks have a 'Private Wealth management' or Private Banker sector... you just have to qualify (>$$)

Im with CIBC, but my CIBC Wood Gundy account and Investment broker is separate, not sure that helps.

Xtrema
10-13-2016, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by birdman86
Also, none of us kids want to take over the farm so he also has big tax and estate things to worry about too.

Sell the farm.

Put all asset in trust.

Put kids in trust and set up will.

Go live it up in retirement.

HomespunLobster
10-13-2016, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Xtrema


Sell the farm.

Put all asset in trust.

Put kids in trust and set up will.

Go live it up in retirement.

Stardew valley it, wait for one day you hate your job and open that envelope that is left for you. Go to farm, remove weeds, rocks, trees, and then profit and marry

revelations
10-13-2016, 08:28 PM
Depends on your fathers net worth.

I know several, specialized (non-bank) advisers, who only work with mid 7 to high 9 figure clients to optimize investment returns, CRA dealings, holdings, offshore, etc.

There are levels of net worth where going this route makes sense and where it doesn't.

sneek
10-13-2016, 08:34 PM
I used to work a group that did this (overseas). Private Wealth usually involves having quite a bit of cash on hand. The firm I worked for had Private banking for people with 30+M invest-able but from what I hear most banks in Canada are around the 1-10M threshold. There is usually one point of contact and then a team of folks that work to invest (protect) the money in the most tax efficient manner. I know some folks at TD that specialize in this but I can't vouch for how good they are ...because I am poor :cry: :(

krazykhoja
10-13-2016, 08:40 PM
As some stated above a lot of it will be based on your father's net worth, as that will determine what type of advisor he will deal with.

Depending on the total assets/net worth as someone in the thread stated most banks have a Private Banking side that deals with the investment assets, will/estate planning, tax planning etc (this will help save on costs and fees). I work for a big 5 bank and have partners in the Private Banking side if you or your dad wanted to speak to someone in more detail.

Typically the best thing is for you or your dad to let them know what you are looking for, as everything is tailored to the individual client needs. If your dad already deals with a bank, they can refer him within the same company.

Hope that helps!

blownz
10-14-2016, 12:19 PM
Check out Royal Bank, you get awesome black Visa and Debit cards:

https://www.visainfinite.ca/privilege/img/issuer-cards/bank-rbc-infinite-privilege-pb-en.png

:bigpimp:

Dycker
10-14-2016, 02:01 PM
Do not go with any of the banks or generic Wealth Management Firms. Akin to telling someone to take their high-clearance sprayer to a Mr. Lube for servicing...

Find a company that specializes in Agriculture Estate Planning. Even the large accounting firms (ex. KPMG) will know how to sell and transfer assets better than any person from a bank.

Good luck, but you could always buy it off your father and build a private race track...

GOnSHO
10-14-2016, 03:25 PM
pm'd

Marsh
10-15-2016, 10:57 AM
Might sound odd, but ATB Financial actually has a dedicated service branch for Business & Agriculture, catering exactly to people like your dad. They may be worth checking out

91_Integz
10-20-2016, 09:49 AM
Sent you a PM!

91_Integz
10-20-2016, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Marsh
Might sound odd, but ATB Financial actually has a dedicated service branch for Business & Agriculture, catering exactly to people like your dad. They may be worth checking out

I work in the Private Investment Counsel area that deals with clients exactly like the OP has described.

But you're right, not many know that ATB offers all services another big bank can offer, with an entire group dedicated to the area of Business and Agriculture. While that group isn't responsible for Investment Management, they work closely together.

852VR6
10-20-2016, 10:12 AM
PM'd

timdog
10-20-2016, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Dycker
Do not go with any of the banks or generic Wealth Management Firms. Akin to telling someone to take their high-clearance sprayer to a Mr. Lube for servicing...

Find a company that specializes in Agriculture Estate Planning. Even the large accounting firms (ex. KPMG) will know how to sell and transfer assets better than any person from a bank.

Good luck, but you could always buy it off your father and build a private race track...

this. do not go to a bank.

91_Integz
10-20-2016, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by timdog


this. do not go to a bank.

I wouldn't argue that there are accounting firms that can provide fantastic advice around the topic, but I would suggest that a blanket statement like "do not go to a bank" is narrow minded.

While I can't speak for other banks, I can speak for ATB and tell you that we have a position within our company that whose role is to provide clients with tax and business succession planning advice. Rather than joining one of the big accounting firms as a partner, she chose to join us in this role instead.

I hope that highlights to others that this type of expertise does exist in the banking world as well.

timdog
10-21-2016, 09:29 AM
i'm not saying the banks dont have smart people. i'm saying their motivations are in the wrong place. say what you want about ATB but I would never ever go to bank for financial advice or wealth management. in my personal experience and what I have read of many other people's experiences, banks are motivated to sell you mutual funds and investments where they rake in huge management fees. they deter you from low cost ETFs of index funds (which are proven to outperform 98% of mutual funds).
They probably still employ people that know economics and finances but they are strongly encouraged by their employer to sell certain funds.

dezmarez
10-21-2016, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by timdog
i'm not saying the banks dont have smart people. i'm saying their motivations are in the wrong place. say what you want about ATB but I would never ever go to bank for financial advice or wealth management. in my personal experience and what I have read of many other people's experiences, banks are motivated to sell you mutual funds and investments where they rake in huge management fees. they deter you from low cost ETFs of index funds (which are proven to outperform 98% of mutual funds).
They probably still employ people that know economics and finances but they are strongly encouraged by their employer to sell certain funds.

Where do you go for financial advice and how much do you pay for that advice?

91_Integz
10-21-2016, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by dezmarez


Where do you go for financial advice and how much do you pay for that advice?

This would be my question as well. Just because a firm is independent from a bank does not mean they are providing the best advice or products that aren't expensive.

It's important to note there are clear differences between a retail advisor and a high net worth advisor. You cannot paint the entire industry with one brush.

If you are a high net worth investor you should be looking for discretionary investment managers, and particularly one with their CFA designation. The ensures you're getting someone with deep knowledge of investments, and the fiduciary duty (legal obligation) to do what is in the best interests of their client. Also, this service will also be the cheapest. In essence, you get more for less when you have more money to invest.

Marsh
10-21-2016, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by timdog
i'm not saying the banks dont have smart people. i'm saying their motivations are in the wrong place. say what you want about ATB but I would never ever go to bank for financial advice or wealth management. in my personal experience and what I have read of many other people's experiences, banks are motivated to sell you mutual funds and investments where they rake in huge management fees. they deter you from low cost ETFs of index funds (which are proven to outperform 98% of mutual funds).
They probably still employ people that know economics and finances but they are strongly encouraged by their employer to sell certain funds.

This is sort of true. If you are an average joe, with like $20k to invest, the bank will just refer you to a financial advisor who will likely just throw you into some mutual funds.

If your a HNW client or prospective client like the OP, most banks refer you to their high net worth group who work one and one and have customized solutions as well as provide tax and wealth planning solutions...

It depends on how much money you have though. very different outcomes

zhao
10-22-2016, 02:09 PM
Well, I would summarize it like this:

Banks/big firms: Most everyone starts out here, so the best financial planners and investment gurus probably cut their teeth working for a bank, so its not like everyone at a bank is brain dead... and likewise at a big outfit. But there is a metric ton clueless people working at banks imo, especially if you just walk in cold and talk to someone who can see you in 10 minutes. wtf do those people really know about anything (the mortgage person I talked to at one bank 6 months ago didn't even know the process of buying a house...)?

Small guys: Little guys thrive or struggle on their own merits alone. That doesn't mean because someone is an independent or at a small firm that they're going to be a good match for you or do a bang up job though.




It comes down to you need to screen the guy you are trusting with your money yourself.

IMO a good financial planner/investment advisor/money manager/whatever isn't necessarily the one that makes you a bloody fortune, but one that finds the investments that do what what the client wants them to.

Before they do anything they should be asking a lot of questions trying to assess what kind of risk you are comfortable with, timelines, what you want to do with the money, are you likely to change your mind rapidly, etc etc etc.

IMO anyone who isn't trying to figure stuff like that out doesn't have your best interests in mind. Getting a 30% ROI is shit if it keeps you awake at night worrying and has you running to the bank the minute it hiccups, so you can take recommendations like crazy, but the onus is still on your Dad to find one that understands what he's expecting to do with his money and not blindly trust anyone.

Minimalist
10-22-2016, 04:09 PM
Keep a firm eye on the management fees and other costs, you'd be shocked at the numbers I've seen and experienced and they really do add up over time. Trust funds are robbery for management fees and with clowns running the show. I'd avoid all the banks in Canada.

I'd call my account manager at RBC four times a year, could never get the same person twice as their staff turnover was so high. Some calls were routed to another employee looking after the file until they hired again. Tax time was a nightmare, they were always late in getting me the paperwork. Very frustrating.

When you interview firms, take note of their offices. See where some of that management fee money goes. I was in a top mutual fund company in Toronto AGF (in a tower), meeting a VP (one of six), his office was bigger than the main floor of my house and he was only a VP. So much dark wood they had to have cleaned out a forest. An example, they had a full-time chef, all meals prepared and served in their own executive dining room. Another meeting at John Templeton's fund, old building in a low rent area, the third floor I think, fluorescent lighting and all the furniture from a local office supply store. The employees were eating out locally, no chef here, no exotic woods, no excess at all.

stillworking
10-22-2016, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Minimalist
When you interview firms, take note of their offices. See where some of that management fee money goes. I was in a top mutual fund company in Toronto AGF (in a tower), meeting a VP (one of six), his office was bigger than the main floor of my house and he was only a VP. So much dark wood they had to have cleaned out a forest. An example, they had a full-time chef, all meals prepared and served in their own executive dining room. Another meeting at John Templeton's fund, old building in a low rent area, the third floor I think, fluorescent lighting and all the furniture from a local office supply store. The employees were eating out locally, no chef here, no exotic woods, no excess at all.

I could be wrong but IMO modest offices doesn't really mean anything as there is still room for excess in areas that can't be seen by clients.

Minimalist
10-22-2016, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by stillworking


I could be wrong but IMO modest offices doesn't really mean anything as there is still room for excess in areas that can't be seen by clients.

I ain't helping.

91_Integz
10-23-2016, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by zhao
Well, I would summarize it like this:

Banks/big firms: Most everyone starts out here, so the best financial planners and investment gurus probably cut their teeth working for a bank, so its not like everyone at a bank is brain dead... and likewise at a big outfit. But there is a metric ton clueless people working at banks imo, especially if you just walk in cold and talk to someone who can see you in 10 minutes. wtf do those people really know about anything (the mortgage person I talked to at one bank 6 months ago didn't even know the process of buying a house...)?

Small guys: Little guys thrive or struggle on their own merits alone. That doesn't mean because someone is an independent or at a small firm that they're going to be a good match for you or do a bang up job though.




It comes down to you need to screen the guy you are trusting with your money yourself.

IMO a good financial planner/investment advisor/money manager/whatever isn't necessarily the one that makes you a bloody fortune, but one that finds the investments that do what what the client wants them to.

Before they do anything they should be asking a lot of questions trying to assess what kind of risk you are comfortable with, timelines, what you want to do with the money, are you likely to change your mind rapidly, etc etc etc.

IMO anyone who isn't trying to figure stuff like that out doesn't have your best interests in mind. Getting a 30% ROI is shit if it keeps you awake at night worrying and has you running to the bank the minute it hiccups, so you can take recommendations like crazy, but the onus is still on your Dad to find one that understands what he's expecting to do with his money and not blindly trust anyone.

This!
A good advisor works to understand your situation and then develops a plan to meet your specific goals. If they start talking about the types of performance they can deliver it should be a warning flag.

Dycker
10-25-2016, 08:52 AM
Thread went a bit off the rails with the whole anti-bank stance.

The main issue that OP is looking to solve is what advice provider should their dad seek out for the best solution to selling the farm.

Trying to find that one agriculture estate expert at a bank (i.e. ATB) who will directly provide a high level of service and advice (without passing off the work to some low-level employee after the first face-to-face meeting) just isn't going to happen.

Accounting firms are one way to go since they are the experts on minimizing taxes.

Estate planning divisions of a wealth planning firm is another option as it's their singular expertise.

Management fees should be an after thought. Dealing with the estate planning is one thing, where the money is invested after is another.