YYC 5 autox?

[reijo]

Weather is looking good.

You interested? Let us know: Poll is here:

http://forums.sascsolo.com/index.php/topic,575.msg4645/topicseen.html#new

[rage2]

I'd love to, but damn already have plans that's too late to change. :(

[reijo]

Neither weekend? Oct 23/30?

[zieg]

I'm game, long as it's ok with the boss.

[NRGie]

I should be good with both weekends

[A2VR6]

Ffuuuuuuu already on winters...

[georgemagana]

I don't have an account but I vote yes :)

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

I do have an account, but I vote no, because my car is already put away.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I'm already on winters as well :(

[rage2]

30th I could do. While the GLA is on winters, the RC-F is just parked, and I can take that out for an event. Assuming its not like YYC4 weather... RCF wouldn't have been happy driving there haha.

[reijo]

haha.....with YYC4 snow tires were almost as good as other tires (I drove on old snows on the BMW). In the afternoon my times were slightly slower than the morning even though I drove better contrary to the others. Guess I crossed the line where the snows worked better ... interesting.

With newer snows, the results might have been better.

Reijo

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

1) Not studded winters
2) Wasn't that you that posted even in the cold weather the summer performance tires still outperformed the all seaons? Either you or Murray.

[reijo]

Murray ... think I was ahead of him in the morning ... on old snows that were several years old (they did not work on Ghost Lake last winter ... gone hard/cycled out). So with newer snows ...

R

[Murray Peterson]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf
1) Not studded winters
2) Wasn't that you that posted even in the cold weather the summer performance tires still outperformed the all seaons? Either you or Murray.

That was me, although I was called to task for making conclusions based on minimal evidence :)

I think it's a close thing when the temps get down low. If the next event is below 0 degrees, I'll be on studded winters. Otherwise, I'll try some of my old summers -- I have a set of 3 year old Rivals that need to slide around some more.

[reijo]

Agree .... Note that the summer tires still heat up even under those conditions and they are not all the same. Some are better in cool/cold conditions than others ... and then there are blankets you can use to hold the heat ... never mind if it is sunny and/or windy ... all of which make a difference.

But I agree that this was near a transition temperature for some tires ... and there were others on snows as well.

Of course all brands of snow tires are not the same as well.

Lots of factors ... bit of a guessing game when it comes to all out performance vs. just street driving.

R

[v2kai]

i voted for 30th but only just got my helmet in the mail so this would be my first event. Was planning to get on board for next season but if there's one or two more squeezing in that would be awesome

[reijo]

We just added another solo event this coming Sunday, October 30, 2016. It will happen at the YYC/Budget lot just north of the Calgary International Airport. It is the 5th event of the year there.

Register here:

http://msreg.com/YYC5...

See here for more information and discussions at the SASC forum:

http://forums.sascsolo.com/index.php/topic,579.msg4685/topicseen.html#new

R

[LUDELVR]

Thinking about doing this on Sunday but don't have a helmet. Anyone have a spare? Also, what class and group would my car fit into?

[zieg]

the club has loaner helmets. As for your car... What is it, and what mods does it have? Need a complete list down to wheel size/offset If not stock, anything changed or removed etc.

https://www.scca.com/pages/solo-cars-and-rules

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by zieg
the club has loaner helmets. As for your car... What is it, and what mods does it have? Need a complete list down to wheel size/offset If not stock, anything changed or removed etc.

https://www.scca.com/pages/solo-cars-and-rules

I might have found a motorcycle helmet but it's not full faced. It's just the brain bucket style. Also, how sticky are they with expiration dates?

As for the car, it's a Honda S2000 and the mods are that it's turbocharged, lowering springs, 18" wheels aftermarket car seats and steering wheel, strut bar, lower x brace... and I think that's about it.

EDIT* Well, I started reading that link and WOW!! So many bloody categories!! I guess I can mention that I have hood vents, a rear diffuser and front lower lip diffusers/splitters. I don't know if this makes much of a difference as they are more cosmetic but hey...they listed it as a mod. I still have no idea as to which category I would fit in to.:dunno: I guess I can add that the injectors have been modified too as well as the block...what else...do catch cans and gauges count too? I think I read something about that.

[reijo]

Likely your S2000 is in SSM class-wise. Basically the charger puts you there and all the other stuff you mentioned is allowed there. Your interior needs to be intact (seats are ok) incl. carpets since it is a `Street`class.

Your helmet needs to be Snell-approved (DOT approved is not adequate according to our insurance). M2005 or SA2005 or newer. There are a couple of European helmet stds that are also acceptable in case you happen to have one of them (rare) ... There is a list of those acceptable stds in the rules btw.

The club has 4 loaner helmets.

Reijo

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by reijo
Likely your S2000 is in SSM class-wise. Basically the charger puts you there and all the other stuff you mentioned is allowed there. Your interior needs to be intact (seats are ok) incl. carpets since it is a `Street`class.

Your helmet needs to be Snell-approved (DOT approved is not adequate according to our insurance). M2005 or SA2005 or newer. There are a couple of European helmet stds that are also acceptable in case you happen to have one of them (rare) ... There is a list of those acceptable stds in the rules btw.

The club has 4 loaner helmets.

Reijo

So if I roll up with an M2000 helmet, will I not be allowed to use it? I'm assuming that this is the date of production.

[reijo]

Originally posted by LUDELVR


So if I roll up with an M2000 helmet, will I not be allowed to use it? I'm assuming that this is the date of production.

That is a 2000 year rating and it is no longer usable for our events ... too old. Date of production can be up to 2005 when the next standard came out ... so it could have been manufactured anytime between about 2000-2005.

Basically it is more than 10 years old ... materials break down over time so it is time to replace it ... even if it appears to be in good condition.

In any case, like I mentioned, we have some loaner helmets if you cannot find another one. It is, of course, more convenient to have your own helmet to use since you may have to share the loaner helmets with others.

Reijo

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by reijo


That is a 2000 year rating and it is no longer usable for our events ... too old. Date of production can be up to 2005 when the next standard came out ... so it could have been manufactured anytime between about 2000-2005.

Basically it is more than 10 years old ... materials break down over time so it is time to replace it ... even if it appears to be in good condition.

In any case, like I mentioned, we have some loaner helmets if you cannot find another one. It is, of course, more convenient to have your own helmet to use since you may have to share the loaner helmets with others.

Reijo

Gotcha. I just have a massive cranium so hopefully they have a big enough size!

In any case, I'm all registered and I think all I have left is this self-declaration form to fill out.

This is my first event and I'm pretty excited! So is there anything else I need to do?

[reijo]

haha.... cool!

Here`s a link that gives you an introduction to autox from the LA region:

http://solo2.com/newcomerInfo.htm

Just take a look at the novice guide pdf file link there ... lots of good info. There are a few differences in the way we run things since we are not as big but more or less the same.

Also get on the SASC Forum and dig through that. There are some novice materials and video links there for when you are starting out. If you have any questions, you can ask there ... lots of helpful and experienced people on there.

www.sascsolo.com

Reijo

[JustinMCS]

Are spectators allowed?

[reijo]

Yes, spectators are allowed ... just make sure you sign the waiver at the gate (there should be someone there but just in case).

You gain access to the site from the north along 22nd St NE off of 100 Avenue NE ... which is basically one block north of Airport Trail ... just go north on 19th St. NE and then turn east on 100th Avenue NE.

The actual address of the site is 220 Airport Trail NE but the gate is on 22nd St NE on the north side.

You are also allowed to ride along (waiver signed?) ... just borrow one of the loaner helmets.

Reijo

[JustinMCS]

cool! any costs for spectating

[reijo]

No cost for spectating ... just sign the general waiver ...

[zieg]

I should also point out that open face helmets with snell rating are perfectly fine. That's exactly what I run. Mopac has them at a great price.

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by zieg
I should also point out that open face helmets with snell rating are perfectly fine. That's exactly what I run. Mopac has them at a great price.

I'm picking up a used motocross helmet and this is what is on it: Snell approved M2010

This should be fine too yes?

[zieg]

Yup.

[Errol.]

Can anyone give me an idea of how loud would get me kicked out. I know the decibel but I have know way to check. If someone has a good comparison that would be great.

[reijo]

Originally posted by Errol.
Can anyone give me an idea of how loud would get me kicked out. I know the decibel but I have know way to check. If someone has a good comparison that would be great.

Are you driving the AP1?

I have an Invidia cat-back single exhaust with stock cat on my AP1, and when I take the rear "cap" off the sound meter typically reads about 92.5-92.6 db depending on atmospheric conditions ... so just about bang on. Air box is stock.

R

[zieg]

https://i.imgur.com/9j0YqDMl.gif

[Murray Peterson]

That's today. Sunday is looking great, with a high of 10 degrees. I expect a bit of wet ground in the morning, with things drying out and being great for the afternoon. Bring your race tires! Plus winter clothing of course :)

[zieg]

Heh yeah I know, I'm just whining. :p
Race tires conveniently already on the car since I couldn't trouble myself to swap.

[v2kai]

For us newbs can we get away with numbering our cars with painters tape this time?

[reijo]

Originally posted by v2kai
For us newbs can we get away with numbering our cars with painters tape this time?

Yep. Usually we have some on-site as well. If you bring your own, you can save yourself a little bit of time, of course.

When you put them on, (yeah, there's even rules for numbers and classes! They need to be visible. :) ). Basically the number should be on either side of the car (not on windows btw), 1" stroke and 8" (200 mm) high minimum. Class lettering can be 4" high as a min.

So if you have thin painters' tape it might even be an idea of making it double wide to make the numbers/letters more readable by corner workers.

Reijo

[LUDELVR]

I'm starting to I worry about the sound level allowance! I feel like my car sounds like an open header V8!

[zieg]

93 is pretty effing loud. Have only seen a couple vehicles end up being over..

[v2kai]

Originally posted by LUDELVR
I'm starting to I worry about the sound level allowance! I feel like my car sounds like an open header V8!

only do half throttle;)

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

A stock Mustang GT-350 blows over but they are damn loud.

[v2kai]

This is a Halloween event right? No costume no run? :poosie:

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by v2kai
This is a Halloween event right? No costume no run? :poosie:
You dressing up as the Stig? Haha and im totally confused nsiferint doing half throttle!

[reijo]

Course is set up and it is looking quick and flows well ... should be fun!

See u tomorrow!

Reijo

[v2kai]

Was nice meeting everyone today and thanks for some awesome ride alongs. Really well put together event.

Obviously my day didn't end as expected. :( Hopefully I was the only incident and the rest of the day went smoothly. Reijo if you need any info from me just shoot me a PM. Decided to call it quits early to get a head start on the accident report and sourcing parts for repairs.

Here's a quick compilation of my rookie driving and subsequent date with the fence.

From what I can see in that fourth run, when I redlined 2nd and shifted the car's weight to get around the next pylon I lost traction in the rear, started rotating and then the rest is history. If I'd hammered on the brakes harder right away instead of hoping the tires would catch for that split second I wonder if the outcome would have been different. Definitely did exactly what youre not supposed to do and fixated on where I didnt want to go... :banghead:

fEctb5y10Tk

[Murray Peterson]

Do you have the OEM front swaybar? If so, you are driving an accident waiting to happen. An S2000 with a big swaybar in the front and some adjustable shocks is a completely docile car -- fun to drive and gives no surprises. Looks like yours is just waiting to snap oversteer on you.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by v2kai
Was nice meeting everyone today and thanks for some awesome ride alongs. Really well put together event.

Obviously my day didn't end as expected. :( Hopefully I was the only incident and the rest of the day went smoothly. Reijo if you need any info from me just shoot me a PM. Decided to call it quits early to get a head start on the accident report and sourcing parts for repairs.

Here's a quick compilation of my rookie driving and subsequent date with the fence.

From what I can see in that fourth run, when I redlined 2nd and shifted the car's weight to get around the next pylon I lost traction in the rear, started rotating and then the rest is history. If I'd hammered on the brakes harder right away instead of hoping the tires would catch for that split second I wonder if the outcome would have been different. Definitely did exactly what youre not supposed to do and fixated on where I didnt want to go... :banghead:

fEctb5y10Tk I think you generally kept the lines clean and tight for being 100% noob, compared to most people that go out and just roast the shit out of their tires.

From watching the crash, it seems like you spooked partway through the slalom, lifted the throttle, and induced oversteer. I don't think the 2-pedal-stand would have saved you there at all because the vector was already pointed that way. If anything, a bit more countersteer and getting back on the throttle gently to weight the rear again would maybe help you out of it.

Or maybe that stupid orange Fiesta at 2:40 got you shook. :poosie:

[zieg]

Glad you're ok. Try not to get caught up thinking about how it could have gone differently, infinite possibilities and all. Just learn and move on, and hopefully we'll see you next year. :)

One comment, you're definitely yanking on the wheel too abruptly, try to smooth out your steering (and throttle/brake) inputs and the car will reward you. Not saying that's what happened in run 4, but I noticed it while watching the other runs in the back field.

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Watching that vid, I think generally kept the lines clean and tight for being 100% noob, compared to most people that go out and just roast the shit out of their tires.

From watching the crash, it seems like you spooked partway through the slalom, lifted the throttle, and induced oversteer. I don't think the 2-pedal-stand would have saved you there at all because the vector was already pointed that way. If anything, a bit more countersteer and getting back on the throttle gently to weight the rear again would maybe help you out of it.

Or maybe that stupid orange Fiesta at 2:40 got you shook. :poosie:

That fiesta got everyone shook! I reckon that vette was scared too!!

Doug. Such a shitty day and just before you were going to park it! Great video job though but alas, your monosyllabic utterance says it all in the car!

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Unfortunate accident, I agree with above that if you have the stock FSB that probably contributed to the accident.

[v2kai]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm definitely going to look into the front sway bar upgrade. Reijo had the same comment as you Murray. Any specific ones other s2kers would recommend?

I aim to be out again in the future, better prepared and hopefully a little wiser for the wear. Got my eye on some spare parts already, fingers crossed they all pan out!

Truth be told it was the fiesta, got me spooked.

[Zero102]

Originally posted by LUDELVR


That fiesta got everyone shook! I reckon that vette was scared too!!

Doug. Such a shitty day and just before you were going to park it! Great video job though but alas, your monosyllabic utterance says it all in the car!

Sorry I couldn't make this event - what's everybody is referring to about the fiesta?

[Sugarphreak]

....

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by v2kai
Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm definitely going to look into the front sway bar upgrade. Reijo had the same comment as you Murray. Any specific ones other s2kers would recommend?

I aim to be out again in the future, better prepared and hopefully a little wiser for the wear. Got my eye on some spare parts already, fingers crossed they all pan out!

Truth be told it was the fiesta, got me spooked.

Sorry to hear about the incident, good to hear your alright and planning to get the car back together and going again.

When I had my S2K I went with a AKE front sway and was quite happy with it. It was fully adjustable too (uses blades) but I just left it at the stiffest setting. Other ones to consider as well are the Gendron Bar and the Karcepts Bar which are also fully adjustable as well but a little differently than the AKE bar (uses arms vs. blades).

[Murray Peterson]

I recommend the Karcepts bar -- high quality and a good price.

You will want some adjustable shocks to dial out some of the understeer induced by the FSB. Koni single adjustables are what I use.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I went with the Karcepts bar when I had mine.

[Zero102]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


It is the curse of the Orange Fiesta... it shall haunt you in HS forevermore

I thought that at first but then there was a comment about how "That fiesta got everyone shook! I reckon that vette was scared too!!" so I was just curious if there was a problem?

[rage2]

Glad to hear you're OK v2kai. Damage doesn't look too bad.

S2K's are a blast to drive, but definitely can be punishing at the limit. Lift throttle at high revs is like pulling the e-brake in that car because of the high amounts of engine braking. Sounded like you got a little bit of wheelspin on power as you started turning left, lifted, and that's it. Don't think there was a whole lot more you could've done once the car rotated out so much. That's purely a guess based on the video alone.

Back when kenny had his S2K and I drove it around a ton, I learnt to never fully lift throttle at high revs when correcting for oversteer, I would counter steer and lift to 1/2 throttle to regain rear traction. A little different than most cars.

[Darkane]

Curse of the AP1. Another beyonder and I rented a tamer (2003) AP1 in vegas 12 years ago and I took it sideways and managed to drift my way through an off ramp to the In and Out burger. Caught me completely by surprise. But it was easy to correct seems older models are worse.

Compare now a days to the GT350, which is predictable and balanced.

[LUDELVR]

I recommend the Karcepts bar -- high quality and a good price.

You will want some adjustable shocks to dial out some of the understeer induced by the FSB. Koni single adjustables are what I use.

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I am hoping to get some info.

Hey Murray,

Looking to upgrade my stock front sway bar and shocks so where do you recommend I get the Karcepts from? What's a good price on one of these bars?

[Cagare]

Holy thread bump.

I have a Karcepts front bar. I would suggest dealing directly with Karcepts. Also, no good price, they are what they are, no one really discounts them, but you can usually turn around and sell it for nearly what you paid for it, depending on currency exchange.

If you plan on shocks, I would suggest going through ProParts in the US and get a custom valved set.

https://propartsusa.com/pages/shock-services

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I am hoping to get some info.

Hey Murray,

Looking to upgrade my stock front sway bar and shocks so where do you recommend I get the Karcepts from? What's a good price on one of these bars?

Hooo boy.

Welcome to the crappy world of S2000 front sway bars. Prepare your wallet!

http://www.karcepts.com/shop/product.php?id_product=81
$725 USD + shipping

http://smallfortuneracing.com/documents/54.html
$699 USD + shipping

Those are pretty much the only front sway bars worth buying. If you're looking for shocks (and not coilovers), your best bet is Koni Yellows.

[LUDELVR]

Hooo boy.

Welcome to the crappy world of S2000 front sway bars. Prepare your wallet!

http://www.karcepts.com/shop/product.php?id_product=81
$725 USD + shipping

http://smallfortuneracing.com/documents/54.html
$699 USD + shipping

Those are pretty much the only front sway bars worth buying. If you're looking for shocks (and not coilovers), your best bet is Koni Yellows.

Holy hell!! I first looked on eBay at front sway bars for s2000s and was like, "This isn't so bad. 100 bux plus shipping." That''ll be like a grand CAD all said and done...for a sway bar! So...I know that this is a must for autocross but how necessary is the upgrade for just driving on the street? I will probably cave and eventually buy one. I am also just thinking of going with Koni yellows to go with my current Espelir springs. I'm not that hardcore and a full coilover set would be overkill for me. I'm just on stock struts which are most likely blown so yeah, baby steps for me.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Holy hell!! I first looked on eBay at front sway bars for s2000s and was like, "This isn't so bad. 100 bux plus shipping." That''ll be like a grand CAD all said and done...for a sway bar! So...I know that this is a must for autocross but how necessary is the upgrade for just driving on the street? I will probably cave and eventually buy one. I am also just thinking of going with Koni yellows to go with my current Espelir springs. I'm not that hardcore and a full coilover set would be overkill for me. I'm just on stock struts which are most likely blown so yeah, baby steps for me.

Yeah, the swaybars for s2000s are pretty massive, and so they tend to cost more. The "cheap" H&R, eibach, etc, are almost identical to stock, so the only decent ones are Gendron or Karcepts. It's been on my "to buy" list for a while. It's more necessary if you're running a square setup, whereas you're staggered, I'd say it's less necessary, but something to still look into. Cagare is right, if you're looking for the best bang for buck, the custom valved ones are ideal. The Koni Yellows are easy toss ins if you're replacing blown shocks, but I wouldn't expect killer performance out of them.

[Murray Peterson]

Avoid the Gendron standard bar - if you look at the mounts, they are just bog standard Energy bushings, and I broke one or two of those every year. Karcepts gives you a quality mount that should last for a long time. Or go with the Gendron monster bar, which uses ball bearing mounts (more money BTW).

Off the shelf Koni shocks are worthless for autox -- you have to get revalved ones from Pro-Parts.

All of this is for autox use (in street class). If you are changing springs, then you don't need a super stiff bar, but can use the springs to do the job. Coilovers would be best here.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Considering that I'm pretty sure his S2000 is turbo, I don't think he'd fit in street anyways.

[Murray Peterson]

In that case, this forum would be a better place for advice (STR setup instead of street classes):
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-racing-competition-11/scca-str-discussion-links-904911/


The monster-sized sway bars are a hack to make up for our inability to change springs in street classes. Oncew you can change springs, then it's a whole new ball game.

[Cagare]

In that case, this forum would be a better place for advice (STR setup instead of street classes):
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-racing-competition-11/scca-str-discussion-links-904911/


The monster-sized sway bars are a hack to make up for our inability to change springs in street classes. Oncew you can change springs, then it's a whole new ball game.

Yeah he is likely modified beyond STR but still a good discussion around struts and coilovers. By the time you pay for a good set of struts you may as well put a little more money down and get a decent set of coilovers.

[LUDELVR]

Quite a bit to consider. I was under the impression it was just some koni yellows and I was good to go! Yeah, the off the shelf ones are about 1000 cad but I've seen some coilovers hi for 3 grand! I am not that hardcore and will do the occasional autocross for fun but not like some if the guys here who practically live on the track.

So what suspension setup or coilover setup would you recommend? A friend just bought the hks set for around 2 grand. I just want something that can hit my current ride height with my espelir sprongs and to replace my more than likely blown stock struts. The car is turbo'd with staggered 18" wheels.and mostly sees everyday summer street driving with maybe 2 to 3 autocross days in the season.

Cheers for all the useful info lads! Totally appreciate It!!

[reijo]

Turbo would be SSM class as a minimum ... where you have to spend a lot of money if you want to be competitive. Or you can also run Open PAX class if you care only about time.

However with that extra power it would be a damned good idea to sort out the suspension because even a stock S2000 can bite you in the ass! (I know, I have had one since 2004 and am part-owner in another one - race car). I have also driven many S2000's (all kinds of various mods) over the years in schools I have taught and they are a fun car but a bit tricky to drive.

As Murray said, if you are keeping the stock springs, you will need a really, really big front sway bar to make up for the very soft front springs. Guy Ankeny in Simi Valley (LA) also makes a FSB for it (My street car and race car has his sway bars ... and his setup of Penske racing shocks ...). They work really well and you can balance the handling with them.

However, if you are changing the springs/coilovers then you should increase the spring rates substantially in the front (waaaay too soft from the factory) compared to the rear. Were they making a FWD? Honda made a mistake here.

If you want a competition car, then that is another story again.

Note that if you go to stiffer and stiffer spring rates, your shocks will have to be re-valved to be able to handle the additional spring rate. A koni yellow off the shelf is not going to do it. Really it is slightly stiffer "street" shock and, in fact, not as good performance as the stock shocks. Guy Ankeny does a great job with this as I mentioned earlier. Proparts in LA is also good for re-valving shocks (get other Konis beyond the yellow ... sort of an introductory shock).

Anyway, realize that books have been written about this subject, so we aren't really scratching the surface here. Good, like really good shocks, cost a lot more (think $3-5k) but they are really amazing.

Guy's web site (you can find ARE on FB as well):

http://www.ankenyracingenterprises.com/

Anyway ...

Reijo

[reijo]

BTW, the STR guys down in the 'States are running rates like 1000 lb/in in the front and 800 lb/in in the rear. Koni yellows off the shelf will not control those springs.

R