Diverging Diamond Interchanges (DDI)

[spikerS]

Just saw this, and I am actually really liking the idea. A lot more than traffic circles since so few people know how to use them properly..

https://www.gwinnettcounty.com/static/departments/transportation/images/DDI_rendering.jpg
5gLxlXamhgY

Are there any of these in Canada? I wouldn't mind checking out their effectiveness here.

[speedog]

162nd Avenue and Macleod I believe is the first one in Calgary. First in Canada as well.

[HiTempguy1]

The only way this makes sense is with upper and lower overpasses to allow free flow through the diamond. Otherwise, I don't see it making much difference overall.

[dirtsniffer]

? One of the roads will be completely free flowing. And most of the traffic in the case of 162 and macleod will not stop and only a portion would stop at a light. 2 light stops won't e common. Great idea.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
The only way this makes sense is with upper and lower overpasses to allow free flow through the diamond. Otherwise, I don't see it making much difference overall.

It reduces the number of lights from 4 to 2 and it also eliminates the problem of left turning traffic backing up against the third light.

Lets take 16th ave and deerfoot as an example. Coming westbound trying to turn south onto deerfoot, often you sit at a green light unable to turn left because traffic is waiting for the red light to cross the eastbound lane.

With this traffic can flow freely directly onto the ramp and no backlog.

[Gestalt]

City is not interested in traffic flow, only traffic easement

[max_boost]

Really cool. When is 162 expected to be done?

[speedog]

lmgtf...

Oh never mind.

[eglove]

Jeez... isn't there a thread talking about this for the last two years or so??

[HiTempguy1]

I now see that and you guys are right. Ma bad!

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I now see that and you guys are right. Ma bad! I think this may be the first time you've ever admitted to being wrong. Such personal growth, sniff, makes me proud . . .

[bjstare]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I now see that and you guys are right. Ma bad!

:eek:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I think this may be the first time you've ever admitted to being wrong. Such personal growth, sniff, makes me proud . . .


Originally posted by cjblair


:eek:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/28/99/f2/2899f2b344016dd4295db08e2020bc7c.jpg

:love:

[ExtraSlow]

:love: :love: :love: :love:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by speedog
162nd Avenue and Macleod I believe is the first one in Calgary. First in Canada as well.

Fysoikeky8M

Suppose to be done this month?

NVM, Fall 2017.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Pages/Road-projects/Macleod-Trail-162-Avenue-S-Interchange.aspx

[asp integra]

interesting

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Xtrema
video What is the cross traffic car (GMC Jimmy?) doing at 2:41... Assuming it ran a red?

Also, 162 WB to Shawville South (4:45). Imagine how many people don't know to get into that barriered left turn lane, and try to force their way into a left turn from the through lane :banghead:

[Masked Bandit]

Because I live & work in this area we use this intersection all the time. I'm looking forward to the new configuration coming online.

[NoPulp]

hmm interesting.


I'm probably the only one that noticed a sn95 at the 2:40 point
:rofl:

[bjstare]

That intersection looks fantastic.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by cjblair
That intersection looks fantastic.

Well, as long as the artists rendition video isn't to be trusted.

https://youtu.be/Fysoikeky8M?t=162

Otherwise, its scary as f*&k :eek:

[Aaaaaron]

I wonder if this could work at CrossIron. Nobody uses Dwight McLellan Trail and when that new mall opens it could get ugly.

[jwslam]

https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/401157-Diverging-Diamond-Interchanges-(DDI)?highlight=diverging


“Please don’t be on your phone or texting when you’re going through here the first time,” said Mac Logan, General Manger of Transportation for the City of Calgary. “Watch the road markings, pay close attention to the traffic lights and you’ll start to get to flow.”
So being on your phone the second time is fine... as with driving anywhere else that you're familiar with :facepalm::facepalm:

[jampack]

DDI in 162nd had the cutting of ribbon yesterday but there are still constructions around the area. The way going from northbound Macleod Trail, exit for 162nd/Sunvalley is still closed and under construction. Kind of disappointed for that part of the intersection but area looks good.

[benyl]

https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/401157-Diverging-Diamond-Interchanges-(DDI)?highlight=diverging


So being on your phone the second time is fine... as with driving anywhere else that you're familiar with [/FONT][/COLOR]:facepalm::facepalm:

People are on their phone anyway. Might as well be realistic.

[Xtrema]

People are on their phone anyway. Might as well be realistic.

Almost got ran over today at crosswalk by one of these idiots. Love to see how many head on collisions we see with this DDI.

[sexualbanana]

I thought weaves were bad?

EDIT: Nevermind. There are still lights. I get it now.

[Xtrema]

Someone need to install a web cam to watch the carnage.

[ExtraSlow]

That's a big benefit to roundabouts, lower severity collisions.

[Masked Bandit]

I think this is going to be a fantastic solution for the area. I live and work in the area and I can see the benefits to the traffic flow.

[Thaco]

i think its going to be great, takes up a whole lot less land space (than a clover), and its much more efficient (than the typical lights on interchanges) for everybody, less collision points, less light phases... great theory, the US first built one in 2009 and has 88 of them now so they must work relatively well... way better than having 4 sets of lights on an interchange... would be a lot more work, but they can even be made with zero lights, in a very compact footprint

79717

[carson blocks]

I say remove the lights and get some figure-8 racing style thrills going.

[jwslam]

I say remove the lights and get some figure-8 racing style thrills going.
Like this mess?
79718
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/flanders-avenue-interchange-open-1.3827500

[tonytiger55]

Like this mess?
79718
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/flanders-avenue-interchange-open-1.3827500

What I don't underastand is how a simple concept is made so complicated? It works fine in the UK. Its the planners are doing it on purpose here to give drivers something to do.
The traffic circles are too big for that type of road. You almost would not need three for that type of intersection.

[Mitsu3000gt]

The average Calgary driver cannot merge, observe speed limits, or use a traffic circle without causing problems - this is going to be a disaster.

[ExtraSlow]

All the driver needs to do is follow the lines on the road and the overhead lights. Can't see how that would cause more problems than other traffic light intersections.

[Thaco]

i dont really understand why people think this will be such a disaster, its so much easier than your standard interchange... its 2 sets of one way intersections... and actually has practically no merging, its almost all freeflow lanes...

[Crazyjoker77]

While its an improvement over conventional diamond interchanges its still far inferior to traffic circles and clover leafs which require no traffic lights and have even less conflict points. I think these are going to be a issue because its just not common place enough and after one winter all the lane markings are going to be scraped/corroded away and people are not accustomed to having traffic on their right...

I am curious though why you never see DDI with the lanes woven to eliminate the traffic lights altogether which brings the conflict points down to match that of a cloverleaf. There is no need other than costs that I can see.

After driving in Europe I'm convinced that traffic circles are superior(and RHD). Another benifit to traffic circles is they can be adapted to interchange any number of lanes where as with most other interchanges your stuck with your 4lanes.

They even did a mythbusters episode comparing a traffic circle to a 4way stop and concluded that the traffic circle was a much better way, granting people know how to use it properly(which everyone should since its in the learners handbook)

Play some City Skylines and you'll quickly realize what intersections work and which don't and a traffic circle always ends up being the answer. Simplicity is key

[danno]

There is some poor design flaws, you will not be able to turn south on to shawville if you are heading south on Macleod. They aren't allowing access to the turn lane.

Right now they need to fix the protruding manholes as they have been blowing tires. I think specifically on the ramp going on to north bound Macleod.

[dirtsniffer]

that was done intentionally to prevent people from backing up significant traffic trying to cross several lanes of traffic.

[speedog]

While its an improvement over conventional diamond interchanges its still far inferior to traffic circles and clover leafs which require no traffic lights and have even less conflict points. I think these are going to be a issue because its just not common place enough and after one winter all the lane markings are going to be scraped/corroded away and people are not accustomed to having traffic on their right...

I am curious though why you never see DDI with the lanes woven to eliminate the traffic lights altogether which brings the conflict points down to match that of a cloverleaf. There is no need other than costs that I can see.

After driving in Europe I'm convinced that traffic circles are superior(and RHD). Another benifit to traffic circles is they can be adapted to interchange any number of lanes where as with most other interchanges your stuck with your 4lanes.

They even did a mythbusters episode comparing a traffic circle to a 4way stop and concluded that the traffic circle was a much better way, granting people know how to use it properly(which everyone should since its in the learners handbook)

Play some City Skylines and you'll quickly realize what intersections work and which don't and a traffic circle always ends up being the answer. Simplicity is key

Aren't all mainland European countries LHD?

As for the learner's handbook, really? Shit, then what of all the people out there not signalling lane changes or turns or the myriad of other things they do that they're not supposed to as per the learner's handbook.

[jwslam]

that was done intentionally to prevent people from backing up significant traffic trying to cross several lanes of traffic.
i.e. Bow Trail West to Crowchild South to Memorial West? Worst. Idea. Ever.

[Tik-Tok]

All the driver needs to do is follow the lines on the road and the overhead lights.

That's assuming you can see the lines and arrows on the road, which you know, doesn't happen in Calgary for 8 months of the year. Either it's covered in snow and ice, or it's faded so badly you can't see them until they're painted again in October. I just want to know how I'm supposed to go up the off-ramp and then down the on-ramp so I can skip a bunch of backed up traffic?

[Thaco]

While its an improvement over conventional diamond interchanges its still far inferior to traffic circles and clover leafs which require no traffic lights and have even less conflict points. I think these are going to be a issue because its just not common place enough and after one winter all the lane markings are going to be scraped/corroded away and people are not accustomed to having traffic on their right...

I am curious though why you never see DDI with the lanes woven to eliminate the traffic lights altogether which brings the conflict points down to match that of a cloverleaf. There is no need other than costs that I can see.

you said it, cost... look up a few posts, i posted an image of a properly done DDI, requires 4-5 more bridges, its going to be a significant price difference.


After driving in Europe I'm convinced that traffic circles are superior(and RHD). Another benifit to traffic circles is they can be adapted to interchange any number of lanes where as with most other interchanges your stuck with your 4lanes.

They even did a mythbusters episode comparing a traffic circle to a 4way stop and concluded that the traffic circle was a much better way, granting people know how to use it properly(which everyone should since its in the learners handbook)

tell that to the city, i don't think i have seen a single 2 lane traffic circle in this city that follows the standard traffic circle rules, and some they like to change every 6 months just to fuck with people.


There is some poor design flaws, you will not be able to turn south on to shawville if you are heading south on Macleod. They aren't allowing access to the turn lane.



there are 3 different ways to access southbound shawville from south mcleod, take the first exit by superstore/hudsons, take the 3rd dedicated shopping center entrance at the south end, or go off on 162 and turn left at the next intersection and go in behind by the train tracks... its really not that difficult to find an alternate route.

[Masked Bandit]

There is some poor design flaws, you will not be able to turn south on to shawville if you are heading south on Macleod. They aren't allowing access to the turn lane.

Right now they need to fix the protruding manholes as they have been blowing tires. I think specifically on the ramp going on to north bound Macleod.

Coming South on Macleod you'll need to either exit at Shawnessy Blvd, Superstore (if that's still going to be open), or loop around the South end of all the shopping and come back in Northbound on Shawville. This has the potential of turning the North & South ends of Shawville Blvd (Superstore lights and Home Depot lights) into a complete shit-show.

[killramos]

I can't wait until the first blizzard this winter when the signs are frosted and the road is covered :rofl:

Still think its a good idea just an admission that Calgarians are retarded.

[dj_patm]

Coming South on Macleod you'll need to either exit at Shawnessy Blvd, Superstore (if that's still going to be open), or loop around the South end of all the shopping and come back in Northbound on Shawville. This has the potential of turning the North & South ends of Shawville Blvd (Superstore lights and Home Depot lights) into a complete shit-show.

As opposed to 162nd and Shawville being a total shit show the way it was before?

Everyone trying to get from Macleod South to Shawville blvd south is why they needed to get rid of this. Wouldn't have worked with faster flowing traffic from the overpass.

As for the snow, we'll get used to it. Glad I don't live there anymore though. That will be a gong show for the first few snowfalls. That combined with the 22X construction? Oh man. Avoid like the plague.

[16hypen3sp]

This DDI looks amazing! I'm really hoping that AB Trans puts one of these at 67th Street/QEII Red Deer when the time comes.

[beyond_ban]

i.e. Bow Trail West to Crowchild South to Memorial West? Worst. Idea. Ever.

You mean crowchild north, but yes, worst ever. That whole setup is a clusterfuck.

[spikerS]

You mean crowchild north, but yes, worst ever. That whole setup is a clusterfuck.

yes but it was designed in what? the 60's? when rush hour was 30 mins long and consisted of 200 cars? It was never designed to handle the flow it does today, but the city should have revamped that a LONG time ago.

[M.alex]

I can't wait until the first blizzard this winter when the signs are frosted and the road is covered :rofl:

Still think its a good idea just an admission that Calgarians are retarded.

that's what i'm wondering - there is no way this is going to work in the middle of winter :nut:

[speedog]

Went through this diverging diamond interchange twice yesterday afternoon and it functioned quite well IMO..

No drivers seemed to be at all confused by the configuration and it all is laid out in a quite straight forward and logical fashion - not even snow covering lane markings should make this difficult.

[Tik-Tok]

not even snow covering lane markings should make this difficult.

Snow covered lines shouldn't make parking lots difficult either... but every fucking year. The problem is that you are a rational, experienced driver. A lot of people aren't, and it only takes one to ruin a drive home for everybody.

[speedog]

Rational?

The ruse continues.

[Thaco]

i thought nobody posted here because it imploded... at least thats how people made it sounds the day it opened..

[Maxt]

Went through this diverging diamond interchange twice yesterday afternoon and it functioned quite well IMO..

No drivers seemed to be at all confused by the configuration and it all is laid out in a quite straight forward and logical fashion - not even snow covering lane markings should make this difficult.
Maybe depends on your direction of travel, but every one of my trips through it have been a clown show. From experience, I now drive through it with my left hand on the horn pad.
When head west across the overpass, how many f'ing "no left hand turn signs" are up on the straight through lanes, 4,5, or is it 6? Without fail, there is always a couple of nimrods trying to turn left on shawville from the straight through lanes. On Saturday some woman tried it to beat the bus and she ended up on the corner island.. They don't seem to think just go down to the next light and go left there.
Also it's been backed up heading east bound a few times as well.

[speedog]

Went through it again today both directions, no issues at all. Now my sampling size is small and on mid-late weekend afternoons so who knows but if Smith is in the lead than what I've experienced could be the real deal as well.

[ZenOps]

There seems to be some emerging issues as time moves forward.

It can be confusing for those expecting a European roundabout instead of a DDI when incoming on a not divided road. People will tend to accidentally enter the incoming right turn lane while attempting to turn left. In a normal traffic congested scenario, this never is a problem because there is always enough incoming head on traffic for you to know you know not to cross the double solid, but because of covid and sometimes completely empty intersections, people get confused.

The solution is to make sure the road is divided long before the intersection.

[ExtraSlow]

Went and visited Andy643 and enjoyed the DDI as I always do. Good interchange.

[Thaco]

i thought the whole interchange was supposed to implode within weeks...

[ExtraSlow]

i thought the whole interchange was supposed to implode within weeks...

DDI is great. I hope we build many more.

[pheoxs]

i thought the whole interchange was supposed to implode within weeks...

ZenOps hates it so it might be a good intersection. Hopefully they build more.

[suntan]

He was annoying on saved by the bell, good to see he got work as an interchange.

[ExtraSlow]

I compare every interchange to the 16th ave and deerfoot one, and so far, there's not a single one in Calgary that's worse. This DDI has the added bonus of pissing of old folks, which I find amusing, so that improves it's ranking in my mind.

[suntan]

I feel like I mentioned it before but that intersection (16th) had an accident the first day it opened.

[Sentry]

I compare every interchange to the 16th ave and deerfoot one, and so far, there's not a single one in Calgary that's worse. This DDI has the added bonus of pissing of old folks, which I find amusing, so that improves it's ranking in my mind.
I have to stop at 3 reds every day coming home, going from NB Deerfoot to WB 16ave. But at least I get to drive past the daily northbound traffic jam.
101132

[sexualbanana]

He was annoying on saved by the bell, good to see he got work as an interchange.

Wrong one. This is the one from WCW who went on to start his own yoga brand.

[98brg2d]

There seems to be some emerging issues as time moves forward.

It can be confusing for those expecting a European roundabout instead of a DDI when incoming on a not divided road. People will tend to accidentally enter the incoming right turn lane while attempting to turn left. In a normal traffic congested scenario, this never is a problem because there is always enough incoming head on traffic for you to know you know not to cross the double solid, but because of covid and sometimes completely empty intersections, people get confused.

The solution is to make sure the road is divided long before the intersection.

I drive this DDI multiple times a week in multiple directions and have never seen this happen.

What I have seen happen numerous times though are people stopping at the island between the sets of lights when they enter late and think they shouldn't keep going. They end up stopping directly below the second set of lights and then cannot tell when the light changes again. It really isn't a big deal since there is plenty of room for one car to stop there and there are good lines of sight to the incoming traffic. When it's a problem is if multiple cars in the same lane stop in the island, then there isn't enough room for two or more cars in all the lanes. I have seen multiple cars get stopped in the island and it can create gridlock, especially if they stop in the far right lane. I think it is the two sets of lights for one lane crossing/maneuver that confuses people.

[mr2mike]

Surprise! All these intersections are experimental means to slow traffic and keep you 50km/h or less.

Nothing was better than the old clover leaf setups. Just needed to build them bigger as the city grew.
Increase speed limits too. This would either intimidate nervous drivers or injure them and they give second thought to the bus pass idea.

[jutes]

The amount of dumbasses out there that slow down in merge lanes onto 100km/h+ roadways has grown exponentially in the past 3-5 years. It's way too easy to get a license these days so we just make things slower and cater to the idiot drivers.

Almost rear ended a GV80 because the old bat STOPPED in the right lane of an added lane intersection.

[jwslam]

Increase speed limits too. This would either intimidate nervous drivers or injure them and they give second thought to the bus pass idea.
Nothing intimidates nervous drivers. There's zero fucks given by the champagne coloured RX350 going 65kph down deerfoot all the way from Beddington Trail to Southland Drive.

[Maxt]

I compare every interchange to the 16th ave and deerfoot one, and so far, there's not a single one in Calgary that's worse. This DDI has the added bonus of pissing of old folks, which I find amusing, so that improves it's ranking in my mind.

The mini version of it a Glenmore Trail/Barlow Trail SE. All that money to get rid of the ogden road lights and jump the railway tracks and they build that clusterfuck of an intersection as part of it.

[ExtraSlow]

The mini version of it a Glenmore Trail/Barlow Trail SE. All that money to get rid of the ogden road lights and jump the railway tracks and they build that clusterfuck of an intersection as part of it.

At least it uses a lot of land!

[ZenOps]

Reasoning seems to be that older drivers are used to polar coordinates, NSEW with more or less locked arms. And then only using gradual movement for turn.

As soon as you add a snake, they don't know what to do.

[Sentry]

The mini version of it a Glenmore Trail/Barlow Trail SE. All that money to get rid of the ogden road lights and jump the railway tracks and they build that clusterfuck of an intersection as part of it.
The biggest atrocity was killing the DQ there that had 69c burger and 99c cheeseburgers. I would load up on those on the way to race city.

[Sentry]

I have to stop at 3 reds every day coming home, going from NB Deerfoot to WB 16ave. But at least I get to drive past the daily northbound traffic jam.
101132
This interchange also has the added excitement of this happening once in a while
101207

[Brent.ff]

https://globalnews.ca/news/9769166/calgary-diverging-diamond-interchange-serious-crash-decline/

Guess it works

[ExtraSlow]

It's a good design. Removes most high consequence collisions.

[gmc72]

https://globalnews.ca/news/9769166/calgary-diverging-diamond-interchange-serious-crash-decline/

Guess it works

I drive this everyday, sometimes twice a day. I like it.

[nismodrifter]

https://globalnews.ca/news/9769166/calgary-diverging-diamond-interchange-serious-crash-decline/

Guess it works

Thats good. Saw many high speed MVA's at 162 and Macleod over the years.

[88CRX]

https://globalnews.ca/news/9769166/calgary-diverging-diamond-interchange-serious-crash-decline/

Guess it works

Its all great... except getting out of Shawnessy and heading south on McLeod Trail is a goat rodeo in the evening.

Also caught a few people not knowing where to stop at red lights. Either stopping way back or half way into an intersection.

[Thaco]

Its all great... except getting out of Shawnessy and heading south on McLeod Trail is a goat rodeo in the evening.

Also caught a few people not knowing where to stop at red lights. Either stopping way back or half way into an intersection.

to be fair, some people can fuck up any traffic signal.

[OTown]

Its all great... except getting out of Shawnessy and heading south on McLeod Trail is a goat rodeo in the evening.

Also caught a few people not knowing where to stop at red lights. Either stopping way back or half way into an intersection.

Yeah from what I saw recently the lines definitely need to be repainted, which would (hopefully) fix this

[gmc72]

Its all great... except getting out of Shawnessy and heading south on McLeod Trail is a goat rodeo in the evening.

Also caught a few people not knowing where to stop at red lights. Either stopping way back or half way into an intersection.

Yeah, my wife complains about that all the time. She usually goes too far forward and feels like an idiot.

[benyl]

Don’t know if this has been mentioned before. Vegas seems to be doing this on bridges over the I-15.

114470