Thinking about starting a craft brewery

[BavarianBeast]

Hey All,

Just thought I would post to get some input and pick a couple brains.

I recently left my job a few months ago after I realized I hated where I was, who I was working with and what I was doing. I've taken some time off and figured out that I would like to do something on my own when I return to work. Having a major passion for beer and after countless nights of thinking how awesome it would be to create a brewery, I am starting to become more serious about this endeavour.

I've got my equipment and bottling set-up picked out, and am now looking for a location. My initial plan is to begin brewing and selling beer only, and then perhaps to branch off into a brew pub on 4th/17th or another similar location.

Just wondering if anyone has ever considered doing this, and knows the hoops to jump through or just has any suggestions in general.

Cheers!

[Dave P]

It appears it is time to initiate Operation Recipe Retrieve.

I wouldn't get past the planning stage until you have a rock solid beer down. Probably a few good ones (obviously said without knowing what you brew)

Its probably just me, but I wouldn't open one in Calgary. I would start with somewhere out of town, and build on small local support. Make it a destination. Im thinking like Eau Clair Distillery in Turner Valley. Would be to hard to jump in to Calgary and mix it up with the big dogs.

Again, not knowing your skills, it seems like all the start ups that make it somewhat big start off small (as a hobby, or side gig) and gain local support, then expand.

[HiTempguy1]

You and about a thousand other people in this province.

Definitely have hit "peak micro brew", I think you are too late to the game.

You must have significant financial backing? And you've read up on the alcohol sales and distribution rules for Alberta (aka convoluted)?

Dunno, just some thoughts. I think its awesome that you want to try, but there is no point in stacking the odds against yourself. Maybe buy in to an already operating brewery?

[mr2mike]

Step 1: Grow a hipster moustache
Step 2: Develop differentiating taste buds that can tell low end vs high end worth of beer.
Step 3: Profit

[dj_rice]

I wish you good luck in your endeavour. That industry is so competitive and niche, its gonna be hard to gain a following this late in the game.


I think you should do a test batch, and let your friends/family sample first, and see what their opinions are before going all gung ho business wise.

[GTR_Auto]

I will sample for you :P

[roopi]

Drop off a keg at my place and I'll decide if it's worth pursuing.

[Kloubek]

I don't know much about the industry, but as far as I know, due to law, regulation, and competition, this is a very difficult business to be successful at.

Buuuutttt, if you decide to do it, good luck.

[TheOldSkipper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI3_w4NBvWg

Figured it was relevant. :D

[ExtraSlow]

Profit form selling your beer in your pub/restaurant is insane on a per-glass basis, but overall profit from the operation is much more modest. Profit from selling your product to other establishments are not that high either, so being a brew-only operation is kind of tough.

Have you talked to any of the existing operators about mentoring you? Most of them are pretty chill guys, and there aren't really any secrets.

[ercchry]

I think if I was to do it I would first nail down some recipes, then see how they scale... brew at an existing brewery and see how just trying to market your beer and get it to market goes... if it takes off then start hunting for a home of your own and investment in all the equipment... and of course a trendy brew pub

[blitz]

It seems like one of those things you should become good at first, then start a business.

[BavarianBeast]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

I have inquired with a couple breweries in town about becoming a partner or purchasing an existing brewery but have not had any luck so far. I'm meeting with one of them next week to pick his brain on starting the business.

In terms of the product and brewing knowledge - I have very little and have selected a system that eliminates the need for a brewmaster. It's called Smartbrew and more can be found out here; http://www.smartbrew.com.
It is a cheap way of brewing beer, but I have had the results at various establishments around the world and the beer is always extremely top quality and each brewer can modify the recipes as seen fit.

In terms of capital, I would be willing to dump close to $1m into everything.

I do understand it is a niche market and may be hard to penetrate, most of you are probably right and I should probably invest my time and money elsewhere..But, the thought of owning and operating a brewery would be a true dream come true.

[spikerS]

yeah, echoing what others have said, you need to know what you are doing first.

having no information on your background or even if you have ever done brewing in the past, I would suggest at a bare minimum taking this course:
https://www.oldscollege.ca/programs/hospitality-food-services/brewmaster-brewery-operations-management/index.html

once you have taken that course, I would suggest working for a brewery, and getting to know the business, make sure you would enjoy doing this. This is an easy kind of apprenticeship program that will fill your head with knowledge.

Once you have a solid foundation under your belt, start with the basics and create a bunch of recipes, and brew them all. Find what works, what doesn't, and what hits home runs. If you can get 4 or 5 home runs, you have a chance.

Start brewing that stuff like crazy, pass it out to your friends, their friends, whatever, create a buzz about it. Even bring it to other craft places and get them to try it, see if you get any kind of offers to have it on tap...

If it is good, the demand will be there, but the hardest part is getting it known. It is a good time to do this, especially in Alberta. The NDP government is instituting a $1.25 / litre on beer that is imported from out of province, so right off the bat you will have a HUGE pricing advantage, and getting a business licence and whatever for opening a brewery is pretty easy in Alberta, there are not too many hoops to jump through. Your biggest hurdle will be health inspections and such and making sure everything is kept spotless. Keeping the equipment clean will be your number one priority as any contaminates left in lines and kettles and such will throw off a batch of beer pretty quick.

Also, craft brewing and brewing at home are two completely different beasts, and there isn't much that is cross platform so to speak.

It is doable, and you can have a lot of fun doing it. But if you are expecting that you will be a social butterfly and having fun in the pub side, well, lets just say, you probably won't have much time for that.

[rx7_turbo2]

It might be the pessimist in me but I think it's too late to be getting into the industry. It just seems so saturated at this point. My Facebook has no less than 3 friends trying to make a go of it.

If you're looking for a return on a million dollar investment I have to think there's much better places to put you're money. If this is a passion, a love, a dream then maybe the risk is worth it.

[Marsh]

Lot of good advice here already. $1mm in a brewery cause you have nothing else to do isn't a great idea. Work for another brewery and see how you actually like it...most people that have started breweries are obsessed with the science behind beer, not just beer guzzlers on the weekend. I also happen to think the micro brew/ craft beer thing is way overdone here, but good luck if you do go ahead with it.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Not quite the same but my friend started a micro distillery a few years ago and it's been the best decision he ever made but he already had a significant passion for whiskey and his end goal is to make that (first batch comes of age next month after 6 years).

The micro breweries here have not seen the same level of growth and success.

It's interesting though, if you actually try to make an attempt I'd try it out. Good luck.

As far as this:


But if you are expecting that you will be a social butterfly and having fun in the pub side, well, lets just say, you probably won't have much time for that.

I completely disagree. The fun factor and the requiset social butterfly aspect of the industry is part of what my friend loves and, especially in the early days, was absolutely critical to establishing the brand. I'd say expect the exact opposite and plan to live the role, a strong public presence is everything.

[jdmXSI]

First off i commend you on looking at something new, no better time to look at something different than in a down market imo.

Second, i am a huge fan of local-ish beer for a few reasons. I personally can not drink the trash that gmbig breweries produce because of all the additives give me horrible hang overs after a few beers (2-3 pints). I alsowouldrather suport a local business than a massive corporation just seems to be a lot more care in the craft. My go for the past 6 or 7 years has been tree brewing for that reason. Especially after visiting thier brewery. They send their reps to the bars theys supply their beer to and if ut doesn't meet their standard, they pull their product because they dont want to tarnish their brand.

Another good brewery is in penticton and is called bad tattoo, great food, great service and beer was tasty. I know Calgary is a different City however after visiting a few different breweries those stand out more than local ones.

[bjstare]

Brewery is not a bad idea if it's something you're really passionate about. If it's something you love, the success will come.. and if it doesn't come, you'll still probably enjoy it. Opening a pub is an entirely different ball of wax, you couldn't pay me enough to do that.

[T-Dubbs]

if you want some real estate space for the brewery, msg me.
I'm an industrial real estate broker.

[Pacman]

What if you went "underground" first and build up a name for yourself. Set up an illegal brewery in your garage/basement and start selling. Once you have the hipsters raving about your beer, go legit and set up shop.

It would make for a good marketing story, assuming you don't get caught and can stay out of jail.

[NoPulp]

Build up clientele by giving away samples to beyond members.:drool:

[NoPulp]

Double post.

[roopi]

Originally posted by BavarianBeast
Thanks for all the replies so far.

I have inquired with a couple breweries in town about becoming a partner or purchasing an existing brewery but have not had any luck so far. I'm meeting with one of them next week to pick his brain on starting the business.

In terms of the product and brewing knowledge - I have very little and have selected a system that eliminates the need for a brewmaster. It's called Smartbrew and more can be found out here; http://www.smartbrew.com.
It is a cheap way of brewing beer, but I have had the results at various establishments around the world and the beer is always extremely top quality and each brewer can modify the recipes as seen fit.

In terms of capital, I would be willing to dump close to $1m into everything.

I do understand it is a niche market and may be hard to penetrate, most of you are probably right and I should probably invest my time and money elsewhere..But, the thought of owning and operating a brewery would be a true dream come true.

Just checked out that smartbrew. I never knew something like this existed. I could put this in my basement. :drool:

What's the cost of a smartbrew system?

[mr2mike]

Got a better idea.

Buy cheap beer in bulk.
Open cans.
Pour into custom labelled bottle.
Seal up.
Place on liquor store shelves with no marketing.
Wait for hipsters to "discover" this new beer that no one knows about.
Profit.

[buh_buh]

I don't know what this smartbrew entails, but it takes normal brewers at least a year or two to get their recipes down. I've got a few buddies (along with everyone else) that have been doing this for a couple years now, and I've had my share of good and bad beers they've brewed.

There's a brew pub that just opened in Inglewood, think it's called Highliner or something. But I'd start with talking to those guys and picking their brain a little.

[Nufy]

Originally posted by mr2mike
Got a better idea.

Buy cheap beer in bulk.
Open cans.
Pour into custom labelled bottle.
Seal up.
Place on liquor store shelves with no marketing.
Wait for hipsters to "discover" this new beer that no one knows about.
Profit.

Orr.....

Wait for a current micro-brewery to go under and sweep in and by the equipment for pennies on the dollar.

You might get a deal on the space as well.

[timdog]

as a brewer, beer traveler and beer aficionado I fully support your dream and share the same dream. However, I think your smartbrew system, without having a brewmaster, and without you having extensive beer knowledge, is a recipe for failure.

First of all, the most complex and difficult part of brewing good beer is yeast management. Teams of people with PhDs in this type of thing work at larger breweries, and I would say that even small craft breweries like Tin Shed and Last Best have people on staff with extensive yeast knowledge. It is a science.

Secondly as a small beer startup, a large part of your demographic is going to be beer nerds. Beer nerds want interesting local beers that can stand up to your international competition, like Stone, Gigantic, Deschutes (first three that popped into my head). Many beer nerds will pick local over those guys, but they have to at least be comparable in taste and quality and they have to be interesting beers. Maybe sour beers, crazy hoppy beers, barrel aged, etc. Your other demographic would be the Bud/Keiths drinkers and I think we know that will be a tough market for you.

This is the equivalent of opening a fine dining restaurant with no professional cooking experience, and saying you dont need to hire a head chef because you found a bunch of easy good recipes online.

[lasimmon]

I think trying to open a successful brewery using smart brew is a terrible idea.

[Minimalist]

Get used to 99% of all people shitting on new ideas. Do what you want, sharing an idea only dilutes your energy and direction. How many here have direct micro brew experience? None. There are only a handful of entrepreneurs on Beyond, as one would expect in a city of corporate workers dependent on O&G for a paycheque*. They are your market, not your board of advisors. The micro beer market is really maybe 10% of total beer sales in Canada?

http://business.financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/the-rise-of-craft-beer-in-canada-an-infographic

I've followed this brewery story since inception and glad they took the risk: http://www.dogfish.com/company


*very aware we all are in some form dependent on the holy O&G industry.

[Marsh]

Originally posted by Minimalist
Get used to 99% of all people shitting on new ideas. Do what you want, sharing an idea only dilutes your energy and direction. How many here have direct micro brew experience? None. There are only a handful of entrepreneurs on Beyond, as one would expect in a city of corporate workers dependent on O&G for a paycheque*. They are your market, not your board of advisors. The micro beer market is really maybe 10% of total beer sales in Canada?

http://business.financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/the-rise-of-craft-beer-in-canada-an-infographic

I've followed this brewery story since inception and glad they took the risk: http://www.dogfish.com/company


*very aware we all are in some form dependent on the holy O&G industry.

I'd disagree with this. Nobody here is shitting on his idea, just bringing up potential issues and challenges. And yes we are his potential market, and in that I think our opinions are more warranted. If your potential customers are telling you that they may not find your brew of good quality/taste/unique etc, and therefore not likely to buy it, why would you go ahead with it and then act surprised if nobody buys the beer?

Its not a bad idea, but not having a brewmaster and some experience in the industry just seems like a recipe for disaster.

[ercchry]

You'd also be surprised to find out what some beyonder do for a living...

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Minimalist
How many here have direct micro brew experience? None.
Incorrect.

[Dave P]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2

Incorrect.

+1

[Dave P]

Originally posted by Marsh


Its not a bad idea, but not having a brewmaster and some experience in the industry just seems like a recipe for disaster.

Its not a bad idea, but not having a brewmaster and some experience in the industry just seems like a recipe for disaster if you are going to put up a potential $1MM too

[Marsh]

Originally posted by Dave P


Its not a bad idea, but not having a brewmaster and some experience in the industry just seems like a recipe for disaster if you are going to put up a potential $1MM too

Absolutely, the $1mm on top of that makes it that much worse.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Marsh
Absolutely, the $1mm on top of that makes it that much worse.
I don't think BB meant he was gonna write a cheque for $1m day 1. It was more like he'd be willing to get in that deep over time. I think it sounded like he was going to start relatively small and ramp up over time if things looked promising.

[Marsh]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2

I don't think BB meant he was gonna write a cheque for $10m day 1. It was more like he'd be willing to get in that deep over time. I think it sounded like he was going to start relatively small and ramp up over time if things looked promising.

Maybe not, but build-out and equipment costs for a brewpub would be in that ballpark anyways.

[blindsight]

.

[Aerobat]

Toolshed puts on a so you want to start a brewery seminar once or twice a year,buy tickets, go ask questions.

[ExtraSlow]

If you are serious about this, go work at one of the breweries for a year to learn some tricks.
Or at least do some "information interviews" with someone who runs one. I might be able to get you a meeting with the last best dudes. They are a pretty cool bunch.

[2Legit2Quit]

Have you talked to anyone from Dandy brewery? Took a tour of their spot, small but working to get bigger. They might be willing to talk to you, wouldn't hurt to try.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 2Legit2Quit
Have you talked to anyone from Dandy brewery? Took a tour of their spot, small but working to get bigger. They might be willing to talk to you, wouldn't hurt to try.
Great little place. When they started I think most of the guys were still working full time(some might still be), brewery was just an on the side type deal. I believe they were considered Albertas first nano-brewery? They seem to be growing and building organically as demand grows. Follow them on Facebook, they have some regular recipes and always have new seasonal small batches. I think they basically sell out of every batch they make.

[The_Penguin]

Originally posted by TheOldSkipper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI3_w4NBvWg

Figured it was relevant. :D

That was friggin aweome!
And probably relevant. :)

[cam_wmh]

Originally posted by BavarianBeast
Hey All,

Just thought I would post to get some input and pick a couple brains.

I recently left my job a few months ago after I realized I hated where I was, who I was working with and what I was doing. I've taken some time off and figured out that I would like to do something on my own when I return to work. Having a major passion for beer and after countless nights of thinking how awesome it would be to create a brewery, I am starting to become more serious about this endeavour.

I've got my equipment and bottling set-up picked out, and am now looking for a location. My initial plan is to begin brewing and selling beer only, and then perhaps to branch off into a brew pub on 4th/17th or another similar location.

Just wondering if anyone has ever considered doing this, and knows the hoops to jump through or just has any suggestions in general.

Cheers!

PM sent.

[SkiBum5.0]

Someone already said it, but you need to be able to brew the beer yourself. Which means you need years of brewing at home or have "studied" at an existing brewery. My BIL has a micro-brew in Saskatoon and his business plan included 18 months of travelling to different breweries and working for almost nothing. I know one of his stops was Parallel 49 in BC. His brewery has followed a strict business plan, and is just now moving into a space of their own, with plans for a brew pub. They've been at it for almost two years.

I also think scaling is a key factor - you can't just jump into retail bottling etc without a distributor agreement. If you have the $$ it will be easier (see Black Bridge Brewery in Swift Current as an example of having $1M+ of seed money).

Your partnership idea is probably the easiest, but you would need to find a dance partner - and if they need the money, it means they didn't have, or couldn't execute on, their business plan.

[SKR]

Originally posted by SkiBum5.0
Someone already said it, but you need to be able to brew the beer yourself. Which means you need years of brewing at home or have "studied" at an existing brewery. My BIL has a micro-brew in Saskatoon and his business plan included 18 months of travelling to different breweries and working for almost nothing. I know one of his stops was Parallel 49 in BC. His brewery has followed a strict business plan, and is just now moving into a space of their own, with plans for a brew pub. They've been at it for almost two years.

I think I know who you're talking about, and that's what I would suggest as well. Go work for someone else for a while, and learn how to do it with their money instead of your own.

[sputnik]

There is an episode of Now or Never on CBC Radio about Little Brown Jug Brewing in Winnipeg. They started with about $500k (for a total of $1.2 mil including the loan from the bank).

Talks about how he started and his business plan considering he had no skills in actual brewing to start.

Worth listening to.

http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/podcasts/nowornever_20161106_67574.mp3 (start at 44:10)

https://www.facebook.com/littlebrownjugbrewing/

[SkiBum5.0]

Originally posted by SKR


I think I know who you're talking about, and that's what I would suggest as well. Go work for someone else for a while, and learn how to do it with their money instead of your own.

Oh ya? I don't mind saying the brewery - It's 9 Mile Legacy. Currently, they're in the Farmers Market until their new spot opens up

[SKR]

Yeah that's the one. I really like the way they've done things. I think they're pretty happy with how it's turned out so far too.

[JRSC00LUDE]

9 Mile?

[adamc]

Check out "Crafting a Nation" on Netflix

[Disoblige]

Any updates to this? Just curious, really lol.