Euro suv comparison/opinions

[asp integra]

Hey gang, I am considering selling the avant and getting something a bit big that also has some towing capacity.
I am looking to spend around the 15-20k range. Looking at the Q7, Touareg and Cayenne. Any thoughts on any of these suv's? My wife has the Q5 and we love it, but I want something a bit bigger, ability to tow a boat is nice too. All opinions, comments, concerns welcome!

[JustinL]

I cross shopped those three when I was looking for an SUV as well. For some reason the Q7 has a lower towing capacity than the Cayenne or the Treg. The Q7 is also set apart by having an extra row of seating. I wanted it for towing and have never had a need for that many passengers, so narrowed the search for Cayennes or Tregs. The differences between them are price and engine options. The chassis are very similar. They use the same AWD system, but the touareg uses the electronics to get 50/50 whereas the Cayenne sticks to the rear bias the differential outputs. The Treg has a bit softer suspension designed a bit more around comfort and off road than the Cayenne which is supposed to be a sportier drive on pavement. Our VW VR6 pulls the car on the trailer pretty well; it's not the fastest accelerating, but does ok on fuel while towing. The car weighs about 2400lbs and the trailer about 1300lbs for a total of 3700lbs.

http://blogs.youwheel.com/2015/02/14/volkswagen-touareg-4motion-awd-system-comprehensive-review/

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/justinl1979/Racing/IMG_20160506_203344.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/justinl1979/media/Racing/IMG_20160506_203344.jpg.html)

[bjstare]

A purchase similar to OP will be on the horizon(similar budget as well), but I'm keeping options open to the smaller class as well (GLK, Q5, X3). I've done a bit of googling, but is there anyone that can comment on reliability, and/or models to avoid? I've heard horror stories of tregs, and apparently the transfer case/tranny on early 4motion GLKs is bad... and X3 is well...bmw? haha.

TIA. And sorry (thanks?) for the piggyback on your thread OP!

[asp integra]

Originally posted by cjblair
A purchase similar to OP will be on the horizon(similar budget as well), but I'm keeping options open to the smaller class as well (GLK, Q5, X3). I've done a bit of googling, but is there anyone that can comment on reliability, and/or models to avoid? I've heard horror stories of tregs, and apparently the transfer case/tranny on early 4motion GLKs is bad... and X3 is well...bmw? haha.

TIA. And sorry (thanks?) for the piggyback on your thread OP!

No worries, I am looking for stories/reliability on the 3 I am looking at a well. I already have a Q5 and its amazing, but I want something bit bigger. Q7 and Q5 in the garage would look good though

[JustinL]

The only big thing that broke on the Treg is the center drive shaft bearing carrier, which is common across all three. The rubber gives up and lets the driveshaft bang around. It was a pretty easy fix if you don't mind spending a couple hours under the car. Changing the oil filter on the VR6 makes you want to slit your wrists. It's impossible to do it and not get soaked. The CEL is on every once and a while now for a cat that's slowly dying. The VR6 we have is a pretty well developed engine and doesn't have any big problems I've come across.

[soloracer]

I just bought a 2008 Cayenne Turbo with 121k on the odometer. Runs great, looks great. Paid $25k with a second set of wheels. Was $158k new according to the build sheet that I got with it.

In researching Cayenne's here is what I was told:

Avoid the 2004-2007 models if you can. They are cheap for a reason. They had issues with the water lines under the intake manifold that when they fail cause engine damage. The 2008 redesign fixed this flaw. The NA models in general had issues with driveshafts and engine cylinder scoring. I was told a good thing to do when buying is get a bore check done on the PPI. The thought was that the long oil change intervals and poor oiling might be the cause of this scoring. Apparently it happens less to the turbo models - possibly because of better oiling. I have heard of air suspension issues on them too. If you are towing the air suspension and PDCC are nice - self leveling and anti-sway are the benefits.

My recommendation then is a 2008 or newer Turbo model and get the best condition one you can find. Also get a proper PDI and check the cylinder bores. Then when you own one get the oil changed every 7000 km or so instead of the 15,000 km recommended intervals.

Edit: Just saw your price range. Might be wise to avoid a Cayenne in that price range. Might be cheap to get one but cost a bunch in repairs.

[LUV2REV]

Originally posted by soloracer
I just bought a 2008 Cayenne Turbo with 121k on the odometer. Runs great, looks great. Paid $25k with a second set of wheels. Was $158k new according to the build sheet that I got with it.

In researching Cayenne's here is what I was told:

Avoid the 2004-2007 models if you can. They are cheap for a reason. They had issues with the water lines under the intake manifold that when they fail cause engine damage. The 2008 redesign fixed this flaw. The NA models in general had issues with driveshafts and engine cylinder scoring. I was told a good thing to do when buying is get a bore check done on the PPI. The thought was that the long oil change intervals and poor oiling might be the cause of this scoring. Apparently it happens less to the turbo models - possibly because of better oiling. I have heard of air suspension issues on them too. If you are towing the air suspension and PDCC are nice - self leveling and anti-sway are the benefits.

My recommendation then is a 2008 or newer Turbo model and get the best condition one you can find. Also get a proper PDI and check the cylinder bores. Then when you own one get the oil changed every 7000 km or so instead of the 15,000 km recommended intervals.

Edit: Just saw your price range. Might be wise to avoid a Cayenne in that price range. Might be cheap to get one but cost a bunch in repairs.

Cylinder wall scoring is a very real issue with all Gen 1 Cayenne's regardless of vintage as well as some Gen 2's. I had a 2009 GTS and moved on from it 2 years ago when this problem was becoming more prevalent and I was out of warranty. It also seems to afflict more Cayenne's that live in colder climates. As Solo said, the Turbo's are less prone but certainly not immune even with the Nikasil liners. I have been told the issue stems from too tight factory tolerances and the DI washing lubricating oil film from cylinder walls. A new 4.8L V8 for the GTS was around $26K (a few years ago) from PCC without labour to remove the old or install the new, simply ridiculous and why most walk away when they lose compression, simply not worth fixing.

The Cardan shaft is essentially a maintenance item now and expect to replace it regularly, poor bearing design. Expect coolant leaks from various sources.

Check out flat6innovations.com for information on Cayenne engine failures due to cylinder wall scoring. Jake is a great guy and immensely knowledgeable, he has rebuilt many Cayenne engines.

IMO the Gen 1 Cayenne has obligingly earned it's nickname 'The Pig'.

[R-Audi]

When I started looking at SUV's, all of the Euros scared me in that price range. I ended up with a Lexus GX470 and couldnt be happier. Very reliable, if something does go or you upgrade parts are very accesible (Toyota Parts bin, shares frame with 4runner and FJ) comfy, can go anywhere, and can certainly tow whatever you throw at it.
The one drawback that some people see is the entertainment.. the non-nav versions are more sought after as the Nav system is a little outdated. (You can replace the non-nav headunit with any new double din, while the nav cant be removed as it includes climate etc.) That being said Grom just released an Android interface that makes the nav better as well.
I got my 2007 with 110km for 19k.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by R-Audi
When I started looking at SUV's, all of the Euros scared me in that price range. I ended up with a Lexus GX470 and couldnt be happier. Very reliable, if something does go or you upgrade parts are very accesible (Toyota Parts bin, shares frame with 4runner and FJ) comfy, can go anywhere, and can certainly tow whatever you throw at it.
The one drawback that some people see is the entertainment.. the non-nav versions are more sought after as the Nav system is a little outdated. (You can replace the non-nav headunit with any new double din, while the nav cant be removed as it includes climate etc.) That being said Grom just released an Android interface that makes the nav better as well.
I got my 2007 with 110km for 19k.

That is fantastic to hear. To be honest, I never even considered those, as I thought they would be too expensive unless they had 300k on them.

The trick will be getting the wife to be ok with driving something the size of a small house.

[SR54RNR]

Originally posted by cjblair

The trick will be getting the wife to be ok with driving something the size of a small house.

GX470 = 4.7L V8, chassis is a Toyota 4Runner (mid size SUV)

GX570 = 5.7L V8, chassis is a Toyota Sequoia (Full size SUV)

[R-Audi]

Originally posted by SR54RNR


GX470 = 4.7L V8, chassis is a Toyota 4Runner (mid size SUV)

GX570 = 5.7L V8, chassis is a Toyota Sequoia (Full size SUV)


I think you mean LX470.


This 2008 is priced very well..

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/edmonton/2008-lexus-gx-470-ultra-premium-package/1215931563?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[bjstare]

Originally posted by SR54RNR


GX470 = 4.7L V8, chassis is a Toyota 4Runner (mid size SUV)

GX570 = 5.7L V8, chassis is a Toyota Sequoia (Full size SUV)

oh, duh. Right.

[Redlyne_mr2]

This is a tough one, I love the euro Suvs but in that price point they're all old and require a huge amount of maintenance. The first gen Touareg IMO is not the best vehicle nor is the q7 or x5 of that era. Theyre all super unreliable, the 2nd gen Touaregs are awesome but fetch a lot more money.

Im with R audi, I bought an ultra premium GX470, it drives like new even with 200K, has awesome features and can tow almost anything I throw at it. You could look at an LX470 as well but your dollar goes further on the GX.

If I was ok with something a little more maintenance heavy I'd get a Land Rover LR3.

[asp integra]

Bumping this and adding 2006-09 Range Rover Sport Supercharged to the list along with 2010-11 RR Supercharged. Any experience? I know that they "are the most unreliable vehicles" but I want to heard actual owners experience.

[stealth]

I had a 2010 RR Sport SC and it was pretty reliable for me. No major issues that I remember, maybe one sensor that I had replaced under warranty.

Also had a 2010 Q7 TDI, was pretty reliable minus the adblue pump needing to be replaced and one of the headlights needed replacing as the LED portion died out. Again all under warranty.

[NissanFanBoy]

Euro SUV in the 10-15G range, lol.... Of those three you mentioned, two of them are notorious pieces of shit, if you go Cayenne, the V6 is from the VW, go V8 but make sure the coolant pipe is replaced/upgraded and there is another common problem I forgot that causes failure of the engine. As for the Q7, it has the same engine that randomly dies as they it in the S4s.

Edit: sorry just read got a bunch of good advice already to stay away haha

[TYMSMNY]

Bumping this and adding 2006-09 Range Rover Sport Supercharged to the list along with 2010-11 RR Supercharged. Any experience? I know that they "are the most unreliable vehicles" but I want to heard actual owners experience.

same. RRSS. good size, able to tow. How heavy is your boat? 4500-5000lbs?

real issue being the air suspension was replaced, supercharger was replaced, minor stuff here and there (no biggie). All under warranty.

[asp integra]

Thoughts on this GX?
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2006-lexus-gx/1297020803?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[Tik-Tok]

I had a 2010 RR Sport SC and it was pretty reliable for me. No major issues that I remember, maybe one sensor that I had replaced under warranty.


How long did you own it after warranty was done?

I had a frank talk about Range Rovers with the service advisor at TRS when I was looking at them. He said they're great vehicles to drive, but expect about $3g in annual maintenance for anything older than 7 years.

[R-Audi]

Thoughts on this GX?
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2006-lexus-gx/1297020803?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Looks great if they have service records with everything up to date. (Timing belt, water pump, fluids, etc) I just did my major service (all previously mentioned plus tranny fluid, F&R Diffs, transfer case) and it was just under $2k. Id still get an inspection and quote for fixing rear camera.