Teacher Fired for Having Opinion

[HiTempguy1]

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-b-c-teacher-fired-for-having-the-wrong-opinion&pubdate=2016-12-08

Lets see if we can go 3 for 3 with A790 :p

Schools of people are being taught to stifle not only freedom of speech, but freedom of thought as well. Economic devastation is the name of of the game for not accepting current liberalism in all its fucked-upness.

People always go "everyone said this about society hundreds of years ago" but this time is different. The regressive left is most certainly pushing us backwards as a society, utilizing tactics that would make the thought police of Hitler and Stalin envious.

[J-hop]

lol, they are kids at a high school with a 30k/year tuition. Of course they've been brought up in a world where everything and everyone should align with them.

[killramos]

Except that apparently most people in said class did not agree with what this stupid girl was getting upset about.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of, I hope that teacher sues and takes the school for every brick and stone in the place.

[spikerS]

Emotionally, I agree Killramos, and as a knee jerk reaction, I am on your side...and then I remembered something...

Teachers should not be teaching their opinion, and instead should be presenting facts. My daughter came home in tears a few weeks back, and when I asked why, she said she was afraid of Donald Trump becoming president. When, pressed, she told me her teacher said a bunch of things and why it would be bad for Trump to be elected. This was to an 11 year old. It pissed me right off.

1, A teacher should not be teaching their political opinions to kids of that age
2, This wasn't part of the curriculum, but fear mongering and presented without much thought.

so yes, I understand the concern around him presenting his opinion on such a hot button topic like abortion, and I would have supported a private reprimand. However, anything more, and a public apology like that is over the top. I would have walked before it got to that step if I were in his shoes.

[kertejud2]

I for one respect this private businesses' right to conduct their business the way they see fit, as any business owner would be. If their customers don't like it they will vote with their wallets and other schools will benefit. If this is what their customers want, then it is their best interest to give them what they want. After all the customers are paying for a product and this rogue employee has potentially jeopardized that product.

Of course it seems like beyond wants Union protection for this guy, who holds none of the risk involved in operating this business, and wants to handcuff the entrepreneurs from managing their own enterprise. Fucking socialists.



This is the kind of private school that gives the people at the Fraser Institute a real crisis of faith.

[J-hop]

I see what you are saying spikers but these are 17/18 year olds. By that age you are thinking about post secondary and/or starting a career, moving out, you can drink if you go one province east and in some cases you're starting a family.

Plus if the national post reported it correctly (High uncertainty there) he was presenting the fact that as you go through life the laws of the land aren't going to necessarily agree with your personal opinions. That is unquestionably a fact.

[Type_S1]

This school sounds like everything I hate about this country in one place. Retarded leftist bs. Despite that, the teacher should not be talking about his personal opinions in a high school class. Teach the facts and move on.

[A790]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-b-c-teacher-fired-for-having-the-wrong-opinion&pubdate=2016-12-08

Honestly, I'm not surprised. It was getting bad when I was in uni (my English prof once said that if you support equal rights, you're a feminist whether you like it or not).

What I find scary is that these students are going to go into the workforce and get jobs. Not only that, but they'll start companies and manage people.

Either we (the world) are in for a shock, or they are. Either way, articles like this remind me of why I'm glad I'm done with post secondary (and school in general).


Originally posted by kertejud2

Of course it seems like beyond wants Union protection for this guy, who holds none of the risk involved in operating this business, and wants to handcuff the entrepreneurs from managing their own enterprise. Fucking socialists.
You got that from the four whole posts above you, eh? That's amazing, especially since spikerS posted a pretty good post that appears be in line with your thinking.

I don't care one way or the other. I just find it hilarious how quickly you got salty over nothing. :drama:

[kertejud2]

^^^

I'm just busting chops.

I also wanted to post this

n1tFbZ5kaY8


If that makes you less triggered. Lol, don't care one way or the other. Then why bring it up and offer your take one way? Yeah.

[A790]

Originally posted by kertejud2
^^^

I'm just busting chops.

I also wanted to post this

If that makes you less triggered. Lol, don't care one way or the other. Then why bring it up and offer your take one way? Yeah.
Me calling out your saltiness is the equivalent of me getting triggered?

You sure you didn't attend that school? ;)

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by A790

Me calling out your saltiness is the equivalent of me getting triggered?

You sure you didn't attend that school? ;)

I attended a private school with proper right wing values, thank you very much. the only thing my school and this one have in common would be grade inflation.

But you don't care, you just can't bear to have something not go pointed out, even though it totally doesn't bother you.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by A790

Me calling out your saltiness is the equivalent of me getting triggered?

You sure you didn't attend that school? ;)

I think triggered is just a buzz word you use when someone doesn't agree with your opinion. That and 'fucking socialist'.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by J-hop


I think triggered is just a buzz word you use when someone doesn't agree with your opinion. That and 'fucking socialist'.

Or regressive left, or SJW, or thought police, or Hitler and Stalin...

[A790]

Originally posted by kertejud2


I attended a private school with proper right wing values, thank you very much. the only thing my school and this one have in common would be grade inflation.

But you don't care, you just can't bear to have something not go pointed out, even though it totally doesn't bother you.
:rofl: Some people's kids, I swear...


Originally posted by J-hop
I think triggered is just a buzz word you use when someone doesn't agree with your opinion. That and 'fucking socialist'.
Same with "salty". ;)

[timdog]

so fucking gold:
"among them a popular young woman who had gone to an administrator to complain that what the teacher said had “triggered” her such that she felt “unsafe” and that, in any case, he had no right to an opinion on the subject of abortion because he was a man"

there are like 3 or 4 different things in that one single sentence that TRIGGER me into pure rage.

[rage2]

Originally posted by kertejud2
I attended a private school with proper right wing values, thank you very much.
Explains so much. :rofl:

[speedog]

Originally posted by timdog
so fucking gold:
"among them a popular young woman who had gone to an administrator to complain that what the teacher said had “triggered” her such that she felt “unsafe” and that, in any case, he had no right to an opinion on the subject of abortion because he was a man"

there are like 3 or 4 different things in that one single sentence that TRIGGER me into pure rage.

It would probably be quite an experience to meet the parents of that special snowflake.

[Masked Bandit]

So if the article is 100% accurate and complete (which I doubt, but that's another issue), if he simply would have said "some people find abortion wrong", instead of "I find abortion wrong", this never would have received a moments thought?

It is beyond comprehension how one little change of a phrase is the difference between having your job or being fired. Who could work in such an environment?

[sputnik]

Q-CJ-oHs4SU

[klumsy_tumbler]

:drama:

I understand that we don't necessarily want teachers imposing their own bias on children, but I don't see how him using his views as an EXAMPLE constitute that in any way.

Society just keeps favoring these Sensitive Sally types because if we dont, we're going to have a whole new social justice group to contend with. :banghead:

Leaving this here because it's relevant. Yes, it's quite long, but I quite enjoyed listening to it.

http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/jordan-peterson

[killramos]

Originally posted by spikerS
Emotionally, I agree Killramos, and as a knee jerk reaction, I am on your side...and then I remembered something...

Teachers should not be teaching their opinion, and instead should be presenting facts. My daughter came home in tears a few weeks back, and when I asked why, she said she was afraid of Donald Trump becoming president. When, pressed, she told me her teacher said a bunch of things and why it would be bad for Trump to be elected. This was to an 11 year old. It pissed me right off.

1, A teacher should not be teaching their political opinions to kids of that age
2, This wasn't part of the curriculum, but fear mongering and presented without much thought.

so yes, I understand the concern around him presenting his opinion on such a hot button topic like abortion, and I would have supported a private reprimand. However, anything more, and a public apology like that is over the top. I would have walked before it got to that step if I were in his shoes.

The biggest problem with the whole situation is the class was on the topic of morals and ethics. The very nature of which makes presenting pure facts pretty well impossible. At the end of the day I bet he regrets stating his opinion, but practically speaking there is literally no difference between saying " for example I find abortion morally wrong " and " Some people find abortion morally wrong". He was literally fired for replacing the word Some People and I.

Mind boggling.

Also:

There is an enormous difference between wanting union protection for someone, and saying someone should sue when they are VERY clearly wrongly dismissed.

Absolutely a private businesses right to fire anyone they want, but its still his right to sue them for firing him illegally. Seems open and shut to me. Certainly hope that school thinks that girls 30k a year is worth the settlement.

[A790]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Who could work in such an environment?
Well, not him (anymore).

[BrknFngrs]

Most importantly, how dare this student say that the teacher was a "man"!

It's unreasonable for them to assign a gender identity to the teacher; countless other students in the class could have been triggered by this spiteful and callous act!

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by killramos


Also:

There is an enormous difference between wanting union protection for someone, and saying someone should sue when they are VERY clearly wrongly dismissed.

Absolutely a private businesses right to fire anyone they want, but its still his right to sue them for firing him illegally. Seems open and shut to me. Certainly hope that school thinks that girls 30k a year is worth the settlement.

What's illegal about it, exactly?

[sputnik]

Anyone else watch the Nosedive episode of Black Mirror?

Perhaps we should just live in a society where whenever someone says something you don't like you down vote them until they become irrelevant and unemployable?

R32qWdOWrTo

[max_boost]

Holy fk me lol

I find abortion to be wrong

Student Triggered

Apology too personal

Now unless this guy looked like rage2 movember + cul de sac A+ creepy lol what in the actual fk is going on lol

[01RedDX]

.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by max_boost
what in the actual fk is going on lol

Simple.

We currently are moving from an autonomous society (where we are allowed to determine for ourselves own moral perogatives) to a heteronomous society where the opinions of the few are dictated to the masses. An example of this would be Nazi fascism or an Islamic country like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

However we are currently in this transitional period where everyone still wants to believe that we have freedom of speech and even thought.

However that all quickly falls apart once you say something that someone else doesn't like or agree with. Then you get immediately labelled as hateful or as a bigot which can lead you to be fired from your job, arrested or publicly shamed to the point where you no longer can do anything without it hanging over your head.

So much for autonomy.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by spikerS
Emotionally, I agree Killramos, and as a knee jerk reaction, I am on your side...and then I remembered something...

Teachers should not be teaching their opinion, and instead should be presenting facts. My daughter came home in tears a few weeks back, and when I asked why, she said she was afraid of Donald Trump becoming president. When, pressed, she told me her teacher said a bunch of things and why it would be bad for Trump to be elected. This was to an 11 year old. It pissed me right off.

1, A teacher should not be teaching their political opinions to kids of that age
2, This wasn't part of the curriculum, but fear mongering and presented without much thought.

so yes, I understand the concern around him presenting his opinion on such a hot button topic like abortion, and I would have supported a private reprimand. However, anything more, and a public apology like that is over the top. I would have walked before it got to that step if I were in his shoes.

He was presenting a fact. "I disagree with abortion laws" is a pretty good ethics discussion, no?

People let their opinions transfer to laws/rules all the time. Drugs, speeding, abortion, etc.

[killramos]

Originally posted by kertejud2


What's illegal about it, exactly?

Lets try Discrimination for a start? :nut:

Being a male with an opinion on abortion?

You know, any of those ridiculous things cited in the article which were implicit in his termination.

Oh right you are a member of that part of society who doesn't believe that while males can be discriminated against. My mistake...

[ickyflex]

Reminds me of this chick

C5sosSHLt_c

[FraserB]

I'd be very confident in saying that she has a prior problem with this teacher and she was just using what society and our government have taught her about dealing with issues to her advantage.

Kids are being taught that if they want to shut down any discussion they don't agree with, all they need to do is claim they are "triggered" and run off to a higher authority. Since you can now apparently be dragged in front of the HRC for calling someone who looks like a man a man, instead of whatever nonsense they have mad up in their head that day, management is going to try and keep themselves out of that position by indulging the "triggered" people.

These people are soon going to be entering the workforce in larger numbers and this nonsense is to come with them. It will be near impossible to conduct a performance review, discuss poor performance or implement corrective actions. All someone would have to do is scream they were "triggered" by your refusal to treat and address them as the bi-gendered mailbox they identify as and you'll get tossed on your ass, if not dragged in front of the HRC.

I'd bet that a huge majority of people didn't give a shit about pronouns or anything like that before the whole PC/SJW/Tumblr/Identity Alphabet revolution. After seeing that it's now being taken to ridiculous extremes, most of those people are probably upset and against something they didn't really care about before. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole movement is like an elastic band, once people stretch it enough, it will snap back on them hard.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


He was presenting a fact. "I disagree with abortion laws" is a pretty good ethics discussion, no?

People let their opinions transfer to laws/rules all the time. Drugs, speeding, abortion, etc.

No, I see a problem with that. A person in authority whose sole objective in their role is to teach people knowledge. And an opinion does not equal a fact. Ever. An opinion can be based on facts, or beliefs.

When a person whose role is to teach, when they present opinion, many will believe that they should think the same way, which may or may not align with many things that the family or culture believe in.

Opinions are not fact, and as such, should not be presented in a place where they can be confused with facts. Nor should such hot button topics be presented as opinion. There would be much better examples to use in the case of this teacher than abortion. It started with a stop sign, and then made an incredible leap to abortion.

I think the biggest issue was that he used abortion as the example. had he used something less emotionally charged, like say, city bike lanes, this would not be an issue.

And before this goes off any worse for the kid who complained, I would imagine that something significant may have happened in her past (Read she was preggo and aborted for whatever reason), in which case I fully understand her reaction to it. Having said that, if she was just being a special snowflake, then, yes, she should be thawed out.

[max_boost]

do they have this type of problem in asia? i guess i can always go back to where i came from lol

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by spikerS
No, I see a problem with that. A person in authority whose sole objective in their role is to teach people knowledge. And an opinion does not equal a fact. Ever. An opinion can be based on facts, or beliefs.

So now I am quite curious how you plan on teaching anything related to law and morals? There's no "facts" when discussing law and morality... It's all value based judgements.

There's no such thing as true facts in most topics unless you are talking hard sciences or mathematics. Social studies being a prime example where lots of things are not necessarily factual but based on things being most likely true. Are Jesus Christ and Mohammed historically real figures? Maybe... They have lots of things written about them and attributed to them. Can we say that it is a fact they existed? No, not in the classical sense of the word...

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by spikerS


I think the biggest issue was that he used abortion as the example. had he used something less emotionally charged, like say, city bike lanes, this would not be an issue.



Have you ever been to a bike lane debate? Basically people kind of wanting a few kids to die to justify building them yelling with people who would rather let a few kids die than put in a bike lane.

Suburban highways is where you don't get any pushback. Even in the GVA. A place where the latte sippers and yop gobblers don't intersect.

[speedog]

yop gobblers - love it.

[A790]

I think that there's a substantial difference between "I think abortion is wrong" and "abortion is wrong and here are the reasons why".

[HuMz]

Originally posted by spikerS


No, I see a problem with that. A person in authority whose sole objective in their role is to teach people knowledge. And an opinion does not equal a fact. Ever. An opinion can be based on facts, or beliefs.

When a person whose role is to teach, when they present opinion, many will believe that they should think the same way, which may or may not align with many things that the family or culture believe in.

Opinions are not fact, and as such, should not be presented in a place where they can be confused with facts. Nor should such hot button topics be presented as opinion. There would be much better examples to use in the case of this teacher than abortion. It started with a stop sign, and then made an incredible leap to abortion.

I think the biggest issue was that he used abortion as the example. had he used something less emotionally charged, like say, city bike lanes, this would not be an issue.

And before this goes off any worse for the kid who complained, I would imagine that something significant may have happened in her past (Read she was preggo and aborted for whatever reason), in which case I fully understand her reaction to it. Having said that, if she was just being a special snowflake, then, yes, she should be thawed out.

If educators are only left to teach brute facts, what do we do with all of the non-science and math courses that bring in subjective interpretation?

I also don't follow how an opinion can't ever equal a fact, yet you acknowledge that an opinion can be based on a fact. Stating that teachers ought to only teach facts and leave out opinions is an opinion in itself.

I think what your failing to recognize is that all statements have truth value, regardless of what someone's opinion is.

[dirtsniffer]

an opinion may be that earth is 10,000 years old, ain't no truth in that.

[msommers]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
an opinion may be that earth is 10,000 years old, ain't no truth in that.

In my opinion, my truck came FULLY LOADED.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
an opinion may be that earth is 10,000 years old, ain't no truth in that.

Or 'I believe that black people are inherently inferior than white people but the law disagrees.'

If this school is sending you through Alphabet training, you better believe that 'I think abortion is wrong' isn't an opinion you shoukd be expressing.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by sputnik


Simple.

We currently are moving from an autonomous society (where we are allowed to determine for ourselves own moral perogatives) to a heteronomous society where the opinions of the few are dictated to the masses. An example of this would be Nazi fascism or an Islamic country like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

However we are currently in this transitional period where everyone still wants to believe that we have freedom of speech and even thought.

However that all quickly falls apart once you say something that someone else doesn't like or agree with. Then you get immediately labelled as hateful or as a bigot which can lead you to be fired from your job, arrested or publicly shamed to the point where you no longer can do anything without it hanging over your head.

So much for autonomy. Its never been an autonomous society, it just went from McCarthyism, daily prayers, Jim Crow, etc to this SJW shit. It's a massive overcorrection that needs to be reigned in, but this bullshit about how people are being oppressed for differing views is some new phenomenon is dumb.

Hopefully all this toxic garbage going around will get the majority of people that are sane to finally agree that even though we might not like each other, these raging assholes on both sides need to be sent packing. Sure doesn't seem like it's going to happen though

Edit: while I agree that it's probably best not to bring up personal views on abortion, how can that warrant being fired? How about saying "don't do that again?"

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Antonito
These raging assholes on both sides need to be sent packing. Sure doesn't seem like it's going to happen though

It will never happen if things continue like this.

Society will just get further divided as one side mocks the other for their beliefs. Calm peaceful dialog cannot happen if the one side always accuses the other as being crazy/bigoted/hateful/stupid/greedy etc.

At the end of the day people are just sticking with their like-minded counterparts as there is strength in numbers which will really only result in North American society being divided into two or more factions that are unable to reasonably get along with each other.

The end resulting in President Donald Trump... and eventually worse. It wouldn't surprise me to see the left rise up out of the ashes and find an even more despicable candidate to represent them next time around.

Dialogue and reason have been replaced with rhetoric and hyperbole.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Antonito
while I agree that it's probably best not to bring up personal views on abortion, how can that warrant being fired? How about saying "don't do that again?"

I would rather see teachers facilitate discussion about the topic and let students determine their own personal feelings on the matter through meaningful and respectful dialogue.

Firing the teacher just gives students the wrong message about having an opinion about something.

[revelations]

Fuck, in my day (private christian school) the Math teacher once said this to one whiny student in class:

"OH QUIT YOUR BITCHING, YOU'RE A BIG GIRL NOW"



This was in the 90s.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


So now I am quite curious how you plan on teaching anything related to law and morals? There's no "facts" when discussing law and morality... It's all value based judgements.

There's no such thing as true facts in most topics unless you are talking hard sciences or mathematics. Social studies being a prime example where lots of things are not necessarily factual but based on things being most likely true. Are Jesus Christ and Mohammed historically real figures? Maybe... They have lots of things written about them and attributed to them. Can we say that it is a fact they existed? No, not in the classical sense of the word...

I think you are taking that way past the literal meaning of the point I was making.

A teacher should not be subjecting their pupils to their own personal morals, or belief structure. Full stop.

A teacher should be imparting the knowledge of the curriculum. I know that when I was in High School, there was an option to take a law class, which I did, but I still don't think there is a "morals" course being offered. Again, using your example of most likely true for social studies, does not afford the teacher to say "I know the textbooks and such say that the native americans were the original inhabitants of North America, but I saw this documentary on netflix, and now my opinion is that it was actually the Chinese..."

And again, religion should not be offered in a school setting, and why there is a completely separate branch of the school system for those parents that want their child in that setting.

But there is nothing in the statement made by the teacher that could even be construed as "most likely true". It was an opinion based on his own personal beliefs, just like those that believe in some flying spaghetti monster, allah, or god.


***EDIT*** and I feel like I should add that he is free to have his personal beliefs, and I do not think he should be fired over what he said. I think anything more than a private reprimand is far to excessive, and a public apology like that just puts him in fear of his students for the rest of his career.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by sputnik


It will never happen if things continue like this.

Society will just get further divided as one side mocks the other for their beliefs. Calm peaceful dialog cannot happen if the one side always accuses the other as being crazy/bigoted/hateful/stupid/greedy etc.

I can't agree more. The problem is that the outspoken few on both sides consist of 95% of media/discussion happening on topics with often extreme views that the general public does not agree with. The "average" person is focusing on more important things then arguing with extremist's so all you end up hearing is the same extreme views over and over and over while the average person stays silent. Repetition results in people believing a certain viewpoint is more common then it truly is. Most people by nature are reasonable but a lot of decisions are made because the "average" person doesn't have time to combat extreme views and is focusing on things more important to them.

A perfect example in Calgary is Bike Lanes where the masses are being negatively impacted for the few. The city has gone full retard with this and I truly believe the average person hates what the city has done with bike lanes. However, normal people, including myself, have 10,000 other more important things to focus on and nobody really takes the time to fight the city/extremist groups. The extremist bicycle riders on the other hand will go to every single meeting held and set up groups to rally decision makers. Have you seen anyone in these bike lanes downtown this week?

Another example is Eastern Canada's view of the oil industry. So much extremist BS is in the news constantly in Quebec/Ontario with lies regarding the O&G sector that its citizens start to believe it and will not take the time to do the research themselves. Alberta/Sask has done a terrible job spreading truths about the industry in general and ongoing projects that only one side of the story is heard. Law maker's and people start to believe the extremist views constantly spewed and we end up where we are today in Calgary where it is AB/Sask and the "others".

[Swank]

Ah the real world will be humbling for those kids where real people with real opinions are every-fucking-where. Try pulling that move on your boss by running to HR; the boss will get a talking-to and you end up at the top of his/her shit list.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Type_S1

A perfect example in Calgary is Bike Lanes where the masses are being negatively impacted for the few.

The masses are an unsustainable system that cannot support any growth, so the system needs to change. They can't add more lanes in the inner city, it isn't fiscally irresponsible to support the car as anything other than the least efficient (economically) mode of transportation in the inner city. The masses NEED to be negatively impacted for any hope at a sustainable future because the masses have been supported by an unsustainable mode of transportation.

Simple as that. Any other opinion is basically like not supporting abortion. Sure it's your right to have it, but fuck you.


The city has gone full retard with this and I truly believe the average person hates what the city has done with bike lanes. However, normal people, including myself, have 10,000 other more important things to focus on and nobody really takes the time to fight the city/extremist groups.

Hate is a strong word, but you have clearly never been to one of these meetings (they had more meetings for the $7M cycle track than hey did for the $5B SW ring road.

And if something is 10,001 on your priority list, it isn't a fucking problem to worry about. If you're willing to 'fight' enough at every meeting so that others give up, then obviously it's one of the important things in your life. So for normal people it isn't even a minor issue (not even in the top .00001%) and for others it takes up a significant portion of their time. Why should we care about the normal people then?

Plus there's a difference between advocacy groups and "extremist" groups when it comes to cycling. The advocacy groups are the ones saying "you know what, it would be nice to not have close calls with cars every fucking day and be expected to pedal at 50km/h to not 'hinder traffic' so it would be nice to have some infrastructure' and he extremist "I Should be allowed to bike on fucking Deerfoot" extremist crowd. The latter exists, they avoid the bike lanes out of principle, nobody likes them. The advocacy groups actually use the data and realities presented to them like "people want to bike but don't feel safe. How can we make them feel safe? And when measures are taken and they see positive trends in every single metric they predicted, then they're probably a group to pay attention to. And then you can have your own pro-car advocacy group, collect data and present it against them.

If you're the kind of person who has 10,000 things to worry about and doesn't care about (never mind want to use) data to make decisions, maybe you should stop trying to bleed the city dry and just accept that multi-modal is the only sustainable way to move forward.



Have you seen anyone in these bike lanes downtown this week?


Aside from that one guy tripping the counters over and over, you mean?

Oh right, data can't be trusted. It's all rigged.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by spikerS


No, I see a problem with that. A person in authority whose sole objective in their role is to teach people knowledge. And an opinion does not equal a fact. Ever. An opinion can be based on facts, or beliefs.

But he didn't say abortion is wrong. He said "I find abortion wrong, but the law is different from my opinion." That's an OPINION based on a FACT.

And a teacher's sole role isn't to teach knowledge. Or it shouldn't be. It's to prepare students for challenges and life situations they'll find themselves in later in life.


When a person whose role is to teach, when they present opinion, many will believe that they should think the same way, which may or may not align with many things that the family or culture believe in.

So? What about how the President or Prime Minister thinks? Or your MPs? Should President's base their decisions solely on FACTS and not how they feel about them? Never happen, and it's impossible. Do you think that students should be exposed to a border wall based on ZERO facts that it'll do anything? Of course they should be. It's called learning, and forming an opinion on a piece of information.

Even this forum can't agree on a fact, like climate change, or whatever.


Opinions are not fact, and as such, should not be presented in a place where they can be confused with facts. Nor should such hot button topics be presented as opinion. There would be much better examples to use in the case of this teacher than abortion. It started with a stop sign, and then made an incredible leap to abortion.

Except his opinion wasn't a fact, and was in fact, the direct opposite of it. I disagree with a LOT of laws, but I still enforce them. My opinion sure does drive my discretion though, and nothing is blanket or black and white.


I think the biggest issue was that he used abortion as the example. had he used something less emotionally charged, like say, city bike lanes, this would not be an issue.

Boo-fucking-hoo. Welcome to life, where people will talk about shit that you don't agree with, care about, and probably everything else.


And before this goes off any worse for the kid who complained, I would imagine that something significant may have happened in her past (Read she was preggo and aborted for whatever reason), in which case I fully understand her reaction to it. Having said that, if she was just being a special snowflake, then, yes, she should be thawed out.

If she had an abortion, and is angry that someone thinks abortion is wrong, that's her problem. Not his. Plenty of people think abortion is wrong. Plenty of people think gays shouldn't marry. Women shouldn't be in the army, or firefighters. She's NOT special, sorry. She has an opinion, she has a sensitivity issue, and she's a whiny bitch who should apologize to her ex-teacher for ruining his career because he said "abortion" and she got mad.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by Swank
Ah the real world will be humbling for those kids where real people with real opinions are every-fucking-where. Try pulling that move on your boss by running to HR; the boss will get a talking-to and you end up at the top of his/her shit list.

Or you will be politely fired because you don't "fit in". Bosses don't give a fuck if you disagree with their opinions; you're there to work.

[A790]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


Or you will be politely fired because you don't "fit in". Bosses don't give a fuck if you disagree with their opinions; you're there to work.
The potential that these people will start business or advance to management positions is very real. It's not unlikely that corporate culture as we know it will change.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


Or you will be politely fired because you don't "fit in". Bosses don't give a fuck if you disagree with their opinions; you're there to work.

Unless you work at a private school with $30K a year tuition then you'll sue for discrimination.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


But he didn't say abortion is wrong. He said "I find abortion wrong, but the law is different from my opinion." That's an OPINION based on a FACT.

And a teacher's sole role isn't to teach knowledge. Or it shouldn't be. It's to prepare students for challenges and life situations they'll find themselves in later in life.



So? What about how the President or Prime Minister thinks? Or your MPs? Should President's base their decisions solely on FACTS and not how they feel about them? Never happen, and it's impossible. Do you think that students should be exposed to a border wall based on ZERO facts that it'll do anything? Of course they should be. It's called learning, and forming an opinion on a piece of information.

Even this forum can't agree on a fact, like climate change, or whatever.



Except his opinion wasn't a fact, and was in fact, the direct opposite of it. I disagree with a LOT of laws, but I still enforce them. My opinion sure does drive my discretion though, and nothing is blanket or black and white.



Boo-fucking-hoo. Welcome to life, where people will talk about shit that you don't agree with, care about, and probably everything else.



If she had an abortion, and is angry that someone thinks abortion is wrong, that's her problem. Not his. Plenty of people think abortion is wrong. Plenty of people think gays shouldn't marry. Women shouldn't be in the army, or firefighters. She's NOT special, sorry. She has an opinion, she has a sensitivity issue, and she's a whiny bitch who should apologize to her ex-teacher for ruining his career because he said "abortion" and she got mad.

wow, i sense a lot of hostility.

But you are right. You do have discretion. You can choose to arrest that person who is over the legal limit and blows 0.10 BAC, or you might take sympathy on them for whatever reason and let them drive the last block home. That is your discretion. Your superiors may find out about it a month later, and you might get fired for it, because, your discretion moved you outside the box you are allowed to operate in.

IMO, the teacher left his box by stating his opinion and influencing his charges to a way of thinking. Not based on fact, but his beliefs, and he did so on a topic that gets EVERYONE fired up on both sides of the argument.

in my opinion, do I think he should be fired? no. However, if I were in his shoes, I would have told them all to fuck off as soon as it was mentioned I had to apologize to her in front of the class.

"I find abortion wrong, but the law is different from my opinion." and the only fact in that statement is that his opinion and the law differs, not that his opinion is based on fact.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by kertejud2


The masses are an unsustainable system that cannot support any growth, so the system needs to change. They can't add more lanes in the inner city, it isn't fiscally irresponsible to support the car as anything other than the least efficient (economically) mode of transportation in the inner city. The masses NEED to be negatively impacted for any hope at a sustainable future because the masses have been supported by an unsustainable mode of transportation.

Simple as that. Any other opinion is basically like not supporting abortion. Sure it's your right to have it, but fuck you.



Hate is a strong word, but you have clearly never been to one of these meetings (they had more meetings for the $7M cycle track than hey did for the $5B SW ring road.

And if something is 10,001 on your priority list, it isn't a fucking problem to worry about. If you're willing to 'fight' enough at every meeting so that others give up, then obviously it's one of the important things in your life. So for normal people it isn't even a minor issue (not even in the top .00001%) and for others it takes up a significant portion of their time. Why should we care about the normal people then?

Plus there's a difference between advocacy groups and "extremist" groups when it comes to cycling. The advocacy groups are the ones saying "you know what, it would be nice to not have close calls with cars every fucking day and be expected to pedal at 50km/h to not 'hinder traffic' so it would be nice to have some infrastructure' and he extremist "I Should be allowed to bike on fucking Deerfoot" extremist crowd. The latter exists, they avoid the bike lanes out of principle, nobody likes them. The advocacy groups actually use the data and realities presented to them like "people want to bike but don't feel safe. How can we make them feel safe? And when measures are taken and they see positive trends in every single metric they predicted, then they're probably a group to pay attention to. And then you can have your own pro-car advocacy group, collect data and present it against them.

If you're the kind of person who has 10,000 things to worry about and doesn't care about (never mind want to use) data to make decisions, maybe you should stop trying to bleed the city dry and just accept that multi-modal is the only sustainable way to move forward.




Aside from that one guy tripping the counters over and over, you mean?

Oh right, data can't be trusted. It's all rigged.

This post is the poster child for exactly what I am talking about. Extremist views not supported by the general population but anyone who speaks out against it is wrong and uneducated on the topic. The fact is I have more enjoyable things tonight then try to educate someone who is unwilling to listen on a topic because I am not as passionate about it as an extremist.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Type_S1


This post is the poster child for exactly what I am talking about. Extremist views not supported by the general population but anyone who speaks out against it is wrong and uneducated on the topic. The fact is I have more enjoyable things tonight then try to educate someone who is unwilling to listen on a topic because I am not as passionate about it as an extremist.

10,000 things, and you still post about bike lanes.


What more important things are you neglecting?! Can you name 100 (literally 0.1% of things you supposedly care about)?


You actually l have nothing. Literally no data you can put against the bike lanes aside from emotion. That is how empty your position is. So remember that the next time you try to dare claim you're a fiscal conservative. You fucking love wasting money to the point you're willing to ignore all data when it's staring you in the face.

Why can't you just admit you're lazy, and that's why you've never been to a bike lane meeting? Not because you're busy or because of interest groups. But because you're simply lazy. Say it with me: "I'm a fucking lazy ass who doesn't hate bike lanes enough to actually get off my couch but I can still whine about it as long as I can reach my keyboard."

[killramos]

I think you are literally just talking to yourself at this point. Probabaly for the best, I wonder if it's possible to trigger yourself? If so you are making a good go of it.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by killramos
I think you are literally just talking to yourself at this point. Probabaly for the best, I wonder if it's possible to trigger yourself? If so you are making a good go of it.

Why don't you keep whining about public transit bringing criminals to your door and let the big boys talk.

[killramos]

Ahh yes the great regressive left tactic of throwing blind data in people's faces as justification for whatever special interest is their flavour of the month, except when it proves them wrong in which case better demean someone's character as not worthy of being part of their circle jerk.

I can't tell, is it just fucking lollipops and rainbows being in your head or is it just extremely sad and depressing? Because I can't imagine it is anywhere in the middle with you?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by killramos
Ahh yes the great regressive left tactic of throwing blind data in people's faces as justification for whatever special interest is their flavour of the month, except when it proves them wrong in which case better demean someone's character as not worthy of being part of their circle jerk.

I can't tell, is it just fucking lollipops and rainbows being in your head or is it just extremely sad and depressing? Because I can't imagine it is anywhere in the middle with you?

So data is a regressive tactic to you? What do you suppose we base decisions on? Truthiness? That in spite of data because you think it's wrong it must be wrong?
That your day has gotten so much worse because of the bike lanes you even forgot to show up to city hall to argue against them (seriously it's happening right now)?

If the data supports the lakes and the majority doesn't care enough to show up to argue against them, what fucking position do you expect council to take given the information put to them?

[J-hop]

An issue I've always internally quarrelled with is we say it's not appropriate for us to talk about these sensitive issues in school, then you get into the working world and again you're told you shouldn't talk about these issues.

So when are you supposed to talk about it? In private with your friends who probably share the same belief as you? Internet forums where no debate seems to ever stay on point?

When are we supposed to expose ourselves and our children to the processes of thinking about topics critically and being exposed to perspective we may not be able to readily see?

If we never address these topics in a setting where we are thrown in with a wide variety of views points I think we'll end up just getting entrenched in our narrow view of the world.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by J-hop
An issue I've always internally quarrelled with is we say it's not appropriate for us to talk about these sensitive issues in school, then you get into the working world and again you're told you shouldn't talk about these issues.

So when are you supposed to talk about it? In private with your friends who probably share the same belief as you? Internet forums where no debate seems to ever stay on point?

When are we supposed to expose ourselves and our children to the processes of thinking about topics critically and being exposed to perspective we may not be able to readily see?

If we never address these topics in a setting where we are thrown in with a wide variety of views points I think we'll end up just getting entrenched in our narrow view of the world.

School is definitely the best place to develop these skills, but when your parents are paying $30K then you're expected to provide results, not thinking. Same goes for the public schools. These are taxpayer dollars you're dealing with, anything other than acceptable test scores is a clear failure of the public school system.

It's a business (or will be compared to one), not a service. So restructure your expectations accordingly.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by kertejud2


10,000 things, and you still post about bike lanes.


What more important things are you neglecting?! Can you name 100 (literally 0.1% of things you supposedly care about)?


You actually l have nothing. Literally no data you can put against the bike lanes aside from emotion. That is how empty your position is. So remember that the next time you try to dare claim you're a fiscal conservative. You fucking love wasting money to the point you're willing to ignore all data when it's staring you in the face.

Why can't you just admit you're lazy, and that's why you've never been to a bike lane meeting? Not because you're busy or because of interest groups. But because you're simply lazy. Say it with me: "I'm a fucking lazy ass who doesn't hate bike lanes enough to actually get off my couch but I can still whine about it as long as I can reach my keyboard."

Well, I just got off working a 12 hour day and now am planning on grabbing a coffee, going to the gym, grabbing a lottery ticket for tomorrow, cooking dinner, taking my dog for a walk and then trying to catch a portion of the flames game. After all that I'll have to show and sleep so I can wake up and work. I would rank those, along with taking a shit, as more important to me then arguing against underemployed losers & hipsters about bike lanes.

This data you speak of...can you please provide some data on a city with comparable average temperatures year round that had poorly designed road systems for the existing population that successfully changed their transportation grid through cutting already congested road ways and replacing them with bike lanes? Also, can you provide some of your real data to show how thsee bike lanes will benefit the masses? Please explain how there is a net benefit added with these lanes based on time saved for people and hours gained through a more efficient system.

I've travelled all over the world for work and pleasure and I can say the most successful system in places with terrible temperatures is having bike lanes on side walks. It doesn't fk with traffic and pedestrians are smart enough not to walk in the designated area. Calgary Downtown side walks have way more then enough space to allow for this.

[codetrap]

.

[A790]

:rofl:

I support measures that reduce congestion and improve our environmental footprint. In my mind, it's myopic not to. The world is clearly moving in a direction- we can get there kicking and screaming, or we can figure out how to benefit from it.

Just my $0.02.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by A790
:rofl:

I support measures that reduce congestion and improve our environmental footprint. In my mind, it's myopic not to. The world is clearly moving in a direction- we can get there kicking and screaming, or we can figure out how to benefit from it.

Just my $0.02.

Yea I think the problem is society hasn't made the shift yet so what it has accomplished is actually increased congestion. I bet it has actually resulted in a net increase in emissions.

[A790]

Originally posted by J-hop


Yea I think the problem is society hasn't made the shift yet so what it has accomplished is actually increased congestion. I bet it has actually resulted in a net increase in emissions.
There are definitely challenges to accomplish our goals, definitely. Dialogue, informed conversations, and measuring/analyzing the data are the best ways to get around them.

We'll get there.

[JRSC00LUDE]

People supporting half assed measures that aren't thought through enough or practical enough to make a positive impact yet are how you get a "Carbon Tax".

[R-Audi]

Im not all together convinced that its worth it... be interesting to see the stats (if possible) of:

# of downtown drivers
# of bus riders
#cyclists
Before cycle track

vs

# of downtown drivers
# of bus riders
# cyclists
With cycle track

With or without the track the bus still has the same route... possibly less riders? Not enough to have less buses on the road... perhaps the buses are on the road longer with less roads available? Really tough to gauge with less jobs downtown too.

[Gestalt]

Private school is private business.

Plus, probably more to the story.

[msommers]

Every time I click on this thread I keep thinking, "what a great click-bait title that is" :rofl:

[J-hop]

Originally posted by msommers
Every time I click on this thread I keep thinking, "what a great click-bait title that is" :rofl:

Sounds like an article title the onion news would use!

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by codetrap
Summarized your argument because I haven't had my coffee yet.



Here's a quick answer for the data I asked for: there is none to support it because it because there is no city similar to calgary that bike lanes have been succesfully installed. Its sweet to have these in major urban centers where the majority of people have no need to drive to work and can use the lanes 95% of the year....that is far from the case here. The data provided in Calgary for bike lanes is gathered and distributed by the same people fighting for bike lanes. Not to say this is a conspiracy but there is an obvious bias in the reporting. The other thing that amazes me is how first hand experience is discounted. Have you driven on downtown roads before and after bike lanes? They completely fked the flow of traffic and I experienced it first hand for months. My regular commute time increased approx. 10 minutes in the summer due to congestion caused by bike lanes. I guess my experience isn't valid though because I'm not a supporter.

So how about you go drink some coffee and stop being and idiot.

[codetrap]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by msommers
Every time I click on this thread I keep thinking, "what a great click-bait title that is" :rofl:

You make it sound like you expect more from me?

But the title is completely accurate :p