Developed basement cold

[craigcd]

In general the basement is always about 5 degrees cooler than the rest of the house. It isn't unusable but it sure makes the bonus room upstairs more appealing.

Our house is about 8 years old and the basement was developed by the builder. I had my furnace checked over when I was having AC issues and he mentioned the furnace is "just" big enough and that the basement ducting isn't the best. He attributed this to the cool temperatures.

We will not live in this house forever so installing a direct vent gas fireplace is likely not worth it.

Is there and economical solution out there? I was looking at wall mounted electrical heaters but was thinking the operating costs would be high.

Suggestions?

[superflychief]

Have you tried closing some of your vents upstairs?

[Darell_n]

You should have a large return air grill in the basement at floor level as well as the heat registers. Your furnace and hot water tank should also be in a sealed mechanical room and the cement floor insulated one way or another.

[craigcd]

Originally posted by superflychief
Have you tried closing some of your vents upstairs?

I have, if I close the upstairs vents then the rest of the house ends up being cold. Really think i could benefit from a larger furnace.....

[craigcd]

Originally posted by Darell_n
You should have a large return air grill in the basement at floor level as well as the heat registers. Your furnace and hot water tank should also be in a sealed mechanical room and the cement floor insulated one way or another.

I have a large return at floor level. The mechanical room is sealed and actually stays about the same temp as the rest of the basement. The cement floor in that area isnt insulated or covered in anyway..... not sure how much of a difference that would make?

[jeffh]

There should also be some additional ducted supply lines installed(or upsized from the original 5"lines they usually install). Hard to tell way after the they developed the basement, but itd help explain some of the temp diffential. Are any of the supply lines in the exterior walls?

[rage2]

Originally posted by craigcd
I have, if I close the upstairs vents then the rest of the house ends up being cold. Really think i could benefit from a larger furnace.....
Where's your thermostat located? Upgrade to one with remote temperature sensor(s) and that'll partially solve the problem by triggering the furnace based on basement temperatures. Then adjust the vents throughout the house to balance.

[craigcd]

Originally posted by jeffh
There should also be some additional ducted supply lines installed(or upsized from the original 5"lines they usually install). Hard to tell way after the they developed the basement, but itd help explain some of the temp diffential. Are any of the supply lines in the exterior walls?

Nope the supply lines are all in the ceiling- pretty sure part of the problem is there simply isnt enough. There are 4 in total. I would guess the space is 800 sq feet?

I need to supplement with something, I dont think there is much I can do with what has been installed already.......

[craigcd]

Originally posted by rage2

Where's your thermostat located? Upgrade to one with remote temperature sensor(s) and that'll partially solve the problem by triggering the furnace based on basement temperatures. Then adjust the vents throughout the house to balance.

T-stat is on the main level.

This might help though. I will try messing around with the vents bit more.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by craigcd


I have, if I close the upstairs vents then the rest of the house ends up being cold. Really think i could benefit from a larger furnace.....

That doesn't make any sense...if you close off the vents and it's "colder" upstairs then that should trigger the furnace to turn on to make it the temperature that you set the thermostat to, which is what the temperature should of originally been upstairs to begin with :dunno:

Unless you mean the top floor of a two story home, but either way I think you gave up on vent management too soon

Heat rises, cold falls... thermostat will always try to keep that room the temperature you set it to. So to balance your home you have to try and even out the rooms. Closing vents in the warmer parts of the house and opening them in cooler parts. Say all closed on the top floor, also make sure the return isn't blocked by a dresser or something as you want to pull the hot air back down to the furnace. Main floor, close off say half the vents. Mostly near the thermostat and perhaps leave them open where the air would rise best to the top floor. After that maybe measure the different temperatures in each area of the house and see what needs adjusting from there

[craigcd]

^^^ yes I meant the top level....

OK back onto vent management for a bit, will report back;)

[rage2]

My house used to have that problem too but I fixed it using my described method.

http://i.imgur.com/3moz4TC.jpg

Using an Ecobee thermostat with 3 remote sensors. The Follow Me feature is awesome because it detects which rooms are active and uses those sensors in an average to determine what temperature the thermostat uses to run the furnace/AC.

[craigcd]

Ok I will give it a shot- thanks. Looking into ecobee also.

[ercchry]

Also the nice thing about closing off vents is that you will increase flow in the open vents... so those 4 basement vents, being the shortest runs should have hot air BLOWING into the basement, if it's beyond comfortable temperature wise, and the noise is too much then maybe open up a couple more vents on the other floors... key to warming up the house though is to keep the thermostat room as cool as possible. Also if the room with the thermostat is where you spend most of your time (perhaps family room with a big tv and home theatre) all that heat generated by the equipment and the bodies will make the rest of your home cooler than you want and moving it to a less used room might also be beneficial

Edit: also lighting choices could help too.. if you have pot lights that give off tons of heat and you often have them on in that room... that's going to really raise the temperature in that room too... I am kind of leaning towards the excess heat in the thermostat room from your comments on your original experience on vent management

[speedog]

Originally posted by rage2
My house used to have that problem too but I fixed it using my described method.

http://i.imgur.com/3moz4TC.jpg

Using an Ecobee thermostat with 3 remote sensors. The Follow Me feature is awesome because it detects which rooms are active and uses those sensors in an average to determine what temperature the thermostat uses to run the furnace/AC.

You, sir, are the ultimate nerd (meant as a compliment).

[rage2]

Just a problem solver. :thumbsup:

[Tik-Tok]

No, you're a electronics nerd :rofl: I solved the same problem with a $20 relay.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
No, you're a electronics nerd :rofl: I solved the same problem with a $20 relay.

Agreed, nerd. Shit, rage2 probably has some fancy Bluetooth/wifi toilet paper dispenser that automatically dispenses the appropriate amount of squares based upon the mess it detects as needing to be wiped away. Hell, there's the wifi lights, the remote blinds, the 100% LED lighting - shit, reading rage2's nerd boy posts is like reading the Popular Science magazines when I was a kid. Good on him though but he really needs to fully embrace his nerdiness, it ain't a badge of dishonor rage2, really it isn't - I'm a nerd at heart too but the couch is often too inviting and I just say fuck it. Case in point, who else but a nerd would have 2.5 ounces of mercury displayed in a small glass bottle on their entertainment center?

[botox]

We don't use our basement very often and we have baseboard heaters that take like 10 minutes to get to a decent temp. I also have a dyson hot/cold fan that works amazingly well to heat up the area quickly.


Originally posted by rage2
My house used to have that problem too but I fixed it using my described method.

http://i.imgur.com/3moz4TC.jpg

Using an Ecobee thermostat with 3 remote sensors. The Follow Me feature is awesome because it detects which rooms are active and uses those sensors in an average to determine what temperature the thermostat uses to run the furnace/AC.
Does this mean your furnace is blowing hot air more often since the basement would cool off quicker and require more heat to stay at your desired temp? Any noticeable increase in heating costs?

[pheoxs]

Just to clarify when you said you closed the vents on the top floor, you meant like 75% closed right, not completely blocked them?

I found I needed to balance all my vents to get my house happy. In winter it was basically: basement full open, main floor maybe a little less than half, and top floor like a quarter open to still get a bit of airflow.

[rage2]

Originally posted by speedog
Shit, rage2 probably has some fancy Bluetooth/wifi toilet paper dispenser that automatically dispenses the appropriate amount of squares based upon the mess it detects as needing to be wiped away.
Time to get a kickstarter campaign going with that idea haha.


Originally posted by botox
Does this mean your furnace is blowing hot air more often since the basement would cool off quicker and require more heat to stay at your desired temp? Any noticeable increase in heating costs?
I don't have enough data to compare since I've only had this thing for a year and the weather was completely different last year, but the closest months I have to compare is March 2016 vs Oct 2016 with average outside temps for both months at around 0C. In March, I didn't have the remote sensors installed yet so it was still operating as a normal thermostat. The average heat run time in March was roughly 3.5 hours per day. For October, the average heat run time was 2.5 hours per day, so for whatever reason, it became more efficient by adjusting the vents and getting even temperatures in the house. Oddly enough, March actually saw tons of cool A/C events, while October had none (this could be due to the blinds though).

Analyzing A/C and Furnace usage, now that's nerdy. :rofl:


Originally posted by pheoxs
Just to clarify when you said you closed the vents on the top floor, you meant like 75% closed right, not completely blocked them?
Depends on the area. Some areas such as walk in closet, I close off completely. I find partially closing doesn't really do much, need to close that shit down to say 90% closed to really make a difference.

[J-hop]

Our basement is freezing in the winter as well. Can't imagine increasing the upstairs temp though. Even if the thermostat area is warm, cooling it would make the rest of the house way to hot.

One thing I notice with my old family home is the basement had a subfloor which seemed to insulate the basement pretty well.

I was told by a renovator not to do this with ours as it often is just a moisture trap which puts you at risk for mould.


Our vents are also in the ceiling of the basement so I'm wondering if putting a fan in the vents to push the air into the basement better would work? (Yes I realize the furnace itself has a fan)

[ercchry]

Forcing more of the heat into the basement would theoretically be more efficient since the hot air would rise through the rest of the house before escaping through the windows and roof instead of being piped directly to the top floor where it would then escape the same way

[frozenrice]

What about a wall mounted electric fireplace? It may not be the ultimate/ideal fix, but there are some units that will provide decent supplemental heating. A lot less complicated/hassle/costly than installing a gas fireplace. What's nice is that they look nicer than having a stand alone space heater sitting in the middle of the room.
Is the entire 800sq.ft one big open area or is it sectioned off into rooms? Most of the electric ones are rated around the 5000BTU range so roughly good for about 250 sq.ft. There are some units as large as 8200BTU too.

Check out Napoleon Fireplaces as well as Dimplex (typing this on mobile so attaching a link is a bit cumbersome for me) to get some ideas.

[speedog]

How many of you with cold basements live in an open concept type of home with an open stairway that spans all levels? My SIL's place is built with an open stairwell that spans all three levels and the basement is always cold even in the summer while the top floor is way too hot, what adds to the problem is the second (main) floor is all open concept which means no decent heat control on that level because rooms can't be closed off with a door.

[ExtraSlow]

Fun the furnace fan 100% of the time, will help even out temps by distributing heat even when furnace is not firing.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Fun the furnace fan 100% of the time, will help even out temps by distributing heat even when furnace is not firing.

:thumbsup: Exactly what I did with that $20 relay. Set it up so the low speed fan runs all the time (but on a switch conveniently located next to my thermostat), and kicks in the med-high speed when the furnace is running. Basement is far warmer, the cold spots in the bedrooms are gone, no cold drafts at all. If I run it 24/7, it's only $20 a month.

I was thinking of installing a circuit to try and slow down the "low speed" even more though. Not sure if just a resistor will do that or not. Have to look into it more.

[Xtrema]

Is it a walkout? Basement being underground, I usually find it to be warmer than main floor/2nd floor if thermostat is at the mainfloor

If I set thermostat at 21c on main, it'll be 19c on 2nd floor and 23 in basement.

I only have a single furnace and vent strat is fully open for basement in spring/fall and fully close for winter/summer.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


:thumbsup: Exactly what I did with that $20 relay. Set it up so the low speed fan runs all the time (but on a switch conveniently located next to my thermostat), and kicks in the med-high speed when the furnace is running. Basement is far warmer, the cold spots in the bedrooms are gone, no cold drafts at all. If I run it 24/7, it's only $20 a month.

I was thinking of installing a circuit to try and slow down the "low speed" even more though. Not sure if just a resistor will do that or not. Have to look into it more.

This is interesting.... how do you retrofit that after the fact? Or is that not possible.

[kvg]

ercchry has the best and most common solution:clap:

[craigcd]

Thanks for the tips. I closed everything on the main level today to see how that would work for the basement. I am going to work backwards from there.

Result was the 2nd level(upstairs) was smoking hot and the basement was still cold... will mess around with it more over the next couple days and confirm.

I was looking at the dyson heater- they look pretty sweet. Likely more cost effective options out there though haha.

[ercchry]

At least there is no carbon tax on electricity :rofl:

[jwslam]

Originally posted by craigcd
Thanks for the tips. I closed everything on the main level today to see how that would work for the basement. I am going to work backwards from there.

Result was the 2nd level(upstairs) was smoking hot and the basement was still cold... will mess around with it more over the next couple days and confirm.

I was looking at the dyson heater- they look pretty sweet. Likely more cost effective options out there though haha.
I've posted this elsewhere on beyond, your best bet for cheapest cost in electricity usage is getting an oil-filled radiator type.

[ExtraSlow]

Econoheat brand wall heaters are good for stable temps. Those oil heaters are probably faster to warm up a room though.

Or electric fireplace.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 88CRX


This is interesting.... how do you retrofit that after the fact? Or is that not possible.

I have an older furnace, so I don't know about new one, but I replaced the SPST blower relay with a SPDT. At some point someone replaced my blower motor with a 4-speed one, but my furnace only uses one speed, so I hooked up the low speed wire to the Normally Closed terminal of the relay, and the med-high wire to the Normally Open terminal.

I also ran wiring/switch to the low speed between the relay and motor, so I can turn it off whenever I want from upstairs, but the furnace still runs the med-high whenever it's running, regardless of the switch.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by craigcd
Thanks for the tips. I closed everything on the main level today to see how that would work for the basement. I am going to work backwards from there.

Result was the 2nd level(upstairs) was smoking hot and the basement was still cold... will mess around with it more over the next couple days and confirm.

I was looking at the dyson heater- they look pretty sweet. Likely more cost effective options out there though haha.

If you buy a dyson heater you've achieve baller status in my books haha.

I think you said your furnace vents for the basement are in the ceiling? Mine are as well and this thread caused me to check them last night. Very poor flow out of them. Might be worth checking yours. I have to now figure out why the flow is so bad on mine and I think it will solve a lot of my cold basement issue.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by J-hop


I think you said your furnace vents for the basement are in the ceiling? Mine are as well and this thread caused me to check them last night. Very poor flow out of them. Might be worth checking yours. I have to now figure out why the flow is so bad on mine and I think it will solve a lot of my cold basement issue.

If you have a drop panel ceiling down there, follow the ducts and look for closed dampers.

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server600/1r2fayi/product_images/uploaded_images/jiffy-damper-sleeve.jpg

[rage2]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I have an older furnace, so I don't know about new one, but I replaced the SPST blower relay with a SPDT. At some point someone replaced my blower motor with a 4-speed one, but my furnace only uses one speed, so I hooked up the low speed wire to the Normally Closed terminal of the relay, and the med-high wire to the Normally Open terminal.

I also ran wiring/switch to the low speed between the relay and motor, so I can turn it off whenever I want from upstairs, but the furnace still runs the med-high whenever it's running, regardless of the switch.
Yea, you need a multi speed motor to pull this off and not just a relay. This is a built in feature in those new fancy DC motor furnaces that can run at variable speeds, basically forces cycling of the air by running at a low speed to ensure even temperature distribution through the house when it's not running heat/cool cycles. You can program what speed that motor runs to suit your home's needs. This was going to be my next upgrade.

Interesting that you can retrofit that into an old furnace tho. That's pretty cool.

[rage2]

Originally posted by speedog
How many of you with cold basements live in an open concept type of home with an open stairway that spans all levels? My SIL's place is built with an open stairwell that spans all three levels and the basement is always cold even in the summer while the top floor is way too hot, what adds to the problem is the second (main) floor is all open concept which means no decent heat control on that level because rooms can't be closed off with a door.
My house is like that. 1/2 my main floor which is living room, stairwell, front door is 2 storey high. The stairwell is 3 story high because it goes to the basement.

[jeffh]

I doubt you will have any of those dampers installed as Tik-tok mentioned earlier. Only place you should find one of those is on your fresh air intake to your return. Basically, the only manual volume dampers are located in your grilles.
Good advice on here, I must say.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


If you have a drop panel ceiling down there, follow the ducts and look for closed dampers.

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server600/1r2fayi/product_images/uploaded_images/jiffy-damper-sleeve.jpg


Thanks, I'll take a look. The PO's fix was installing baseboard heaters but i have no interest in running those consistently.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by jeffh
I doubt you will have any of those dampers installed as Tik-tok mentioned earlier. Only place you should find one of those is on your fresh air intake to your return. Basically, the only manual volume dampers are located in your grilles.
Good advice on here, I must say.

Every duct in my house has them.

[jeffh]

Tik tok, that is a bit surprising, as it's not the norm. That's great for you, are they all fairly accessible? Is it an older home? I will install them in my home when I redo my supply main.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by jwslam

I've posted this elsewhere on beyond, your best bet for cheapest cost in electricity usage is getting an oil-filled radiator type.

Did that at my parents place. Put it in the middle room and it heats the basement up pretty nice.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by jeffh
Tik tok, that is a bit surprising, as it's not the norm. That's great for you, are they all fairly accessible? Is it an older home? I will install them in my home when I redo my supply main.

Yeah, it's a late 50's bungelow. They were all accessible until I drywalled the basement ceiling, but I adjusted them before I did that.... except for one which I forgot to re-open altogether :rofl: (it's inconsequential though, as it's a 3rd duct in the living room that already has two others)