Is this a good deal for a 2013 A5?

[rx7boi]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to run a financing scenario by you and see if the numbers are reasonable or if there's wiggle room.

I'm looking at an 2013 Audi S-line A5 with 69,000km's and comes with a set of 17" winters. I am also open to getting an S4 as well.

The breakdown is as follows:

Car - $31400
New summer tires - $1800
2 yr CPO until Feb 2018 or 160k km's - $1700
-------------------------
Total - $34900

I told them to take the summers off and they said they would knock off $1800. I can source a set of 19's with tires for less than that.

The 2 yr CPO for $1700 seems like a very reasonable price. I'll be financing this vehicle for 5 years as well @ 2.9% for $2710 in interest which can change if I decide to pay it off earlier.

Other charges include:

Finance Acquisition Fee - $595
Vehicle Preparation - $395

I asked the rep why the vehicle preparation cost was being passed on to the consumer. I would imagine that prepping the vehicle comes at the cost of doing business.

In the end, I'm looking at

A5 - $33100 with 2yr CPO
Fees - $990
Tax - $1704.50
-----------------------------
Total - $35794.50 OTD

What do you guys think? What would be a fair offer on this A5 with a 2yr CPO?

By comparison, there is a 2011 A5 (66,000km) for $28,988 in Vernon VW, a 2011 S4 (74,000km) for $29,889, and a 2012 S4 (56,000km) for $31,995.

I feel like I can get them to toss the fees, but $31400 for the car seems quite high. I never found out what they bought it back for and it isn't a number I would expect them to tell me.

Any help would be appreciated!

[italianstylez]

Seems reasonable too me, being s line with CPO,
You found one couple years older and couple grand less probably no warranty, those are all things to consider.

[speedog]

Why $595 for the finance acquisition fee? It's been a long time since I financed a vehicle but I do not remember such a high fee or even such a fee for financing - do banks charge fees this high for financing a vehicle?

[Xtrema]

Unless you have an hard on for A5, 2012 S4 for $32k is far superior.

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by italianstylez
Seems reasonable too me, being s line with CPO,
You found one couple years older and couple grand less probably no warranty, those are all things to consider.

I agree. The 2011 A5 in Vernon is not CPO and the warranty will have long run out.

That said, $28, 889 is their asking price and the profit margin they want to be operating at. Likewise, $31, 400 is what they want for the 2013 with no negotiating.

Used cars have more margin than new, so I am trying to determine, if possible, what their profit margins on this sale will be and how much negotiating room I have.

The rep mentioned something about the dealership purchasing the car back at a residual rate (he wasn't very clear), so I took a look online and I believe the residual rate for a 2013 A5 is roughly 51% of the MSRP. Since the MSRP for this car was $49500, I imagine they would have purchased it for around 25000 to 26000, minus their cost to recondition and prep it for a sale.

Assuming my math is accurate (if I missed something please mention it), they would be looking at

1700 CPO warranty profit
~5000 profit on the car itself
~2700 financing interest for 5 years

All of which goes into their pockets.


Originally posted by speedog
Why $595 for the finance acquisition fee? It's been a long time since I financed a vehicle but I do not remember such a high fee or even such a fee for financing - do banks charge fees this high for financing a vehicle?

That's what I thought as well. I asked him which bank he is doing the 2.9% financing through and he said that financing is through Audi Canada.

If anyone here does financing that could provide insight, that'd be helpful.


Originally posted by Xtrema
Unless you have an hard on for A5, 2012 S4 for $32k is far superior.

I do like the A5 coupe styling but the S4 is alot more car for the money. If I get a 4-door it'd have to be an S4 for sure.

I'll call today and find out some more info about this car.

What do you guys think about the 2yr CPO for $1700? If I go with the S4 from an independent dealership, it won't be CPO and I'm sure a 2yr warranty from a 3rd party would be more than $1700.

[Mitsu3000gt]

$990 in moneygrab fees? No way would I pay that, especially the "vehicle prep" which is what you do before you sell a vehicle...for free. I've also never seen anyone pay a "finance acquisition" fee in my life - you're already paying them over $2700 in interest and have to pay GST on the vehicle for the second (or third or fourth) time in its life.

MB has a 2012 A5 S-Line Premium for $24,900 with 85Km. This car doesn't seem like it's worth ~10K more unless there are some huge model changes between 2012 - 2013.

$35,000 buys you a lot of nice cars...this seems like a pretty average deal IMHO, just after a quick look.

S4 would be much more fun and much more practical if that's also on your radar for similar price. If you are also looking at an S4 I wouldn't even be considering A5's but that's just me.

$1700 isn't bad for 2-years warranty, then again I have never had a single problem with either one of my Audi's over approximately a decade of combined ownership. On a simple car like the A5 with the 2.0T which is quite reliable I probably wouldn't buy it on a relatively new car, but it's a gamble no matter what you do.

[delco21]

Agreed negotiate the fees and price as a 2013 S4 with lower then that KM's can be had for 34-35 so that a lot for an A5 with higher KM

[Tenkara Way]

Five year old Audi + CPO = Worry free.

Have you looked on LeaseBusters for a better deal? Plenty of desperate owners needing to dump their lease.

S4 for the win IMO, more car for the money and the ever practical four doors.

You gotta get what you gotta get.

[italianstylez]

I'd negotiate at least 1000$ off, and drop the prep fee it's ridiculous, everyone financing pays the finance fee, lots of them just word it or break it down differently. But 95% of the consumers pay it.

I can tell you first hand used cars almost always have more profit in them, based on what I see at work, makes me wanna switch to used sales vs new.

[sexualbanana]

CPO is a warranty?

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by sexualbanana
CPO is a warranty?

Yes when a car is Certified Pre Owned it's basically qualified for a extension of most of its factory warranty so to say if sold from a registered dealer.

[rx7boi]

Yeah, so I'd get warranty until Feb 2019 or 160,000km whichever comes first.

[SkiBum5.0]

Then it's a one year CPO if it expires in 2018 - you are paying $1700 for a one year warranty. Do you mean 2019?

[rx7boi]

Ah sorry, my bad. I meant Feb 2019 :)

Will go back and edit my post.

[bh87]

Banks (the big 5 anyways) don't charge a fee to set up financing. However the rate is not always as favorable as the dealership depending on the year of the vehicle, the price and the persons's credit score and beacon score. Like others have said, the prep fee is total BS, you should not pay for that.

Based on a rough calculation, looks like the monthly cost for the 5 year financing would be right around $620.00 (based on 2.9% interest) on a price of $35,400. Have you considered leasing or financing a new one?
Looks like their current lease rates and financing rates are 0.90%-1.90% depending on time frame and "Audi Select". For around $100-$150 more per month (depending on trim and options) with $0.00 down, on the 5 year Audi Select scenario you could have a new vehicle. Audi Payment Calculator (http://www.audipaymentestimator.ca/en/main/calc?PROV=AB&MODELID=8T3XG9-2017)

[rx7boi]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, it's been very helpful.

A new finance/lease wouldn't be an option for me as I can't justify the cost of a new A5 or S4.

The plan was to trade in my current car (2012 Genesis Coupe), put an additional $4000 down and finance the remaining 16-18g's.

Assuming that they're going to make ~$9000 (I could be overestimating as I don't know their costs) between the CPO, car, and financing back end, I'd be tempted to offer them $29700 with the 2yr CPO and if they took off the dealer prep and finance fee.

The car just came in 2 days ago. I could sign for it tomorrow and it'd be a quick profit for them or they can take their chances and wait for the next buyer.

[riander5]

Not sure how you can consider an a5 when an s4 is similar in price... twice the car, plus i think s4's look just as nice as their two door brethren

[Mitsu3000gt]

You have nothing to lose by trying. It's amazing what can happen to things like the 100% money-grab fees when they think they have a sale and you walk out. You'll probably get a call the next day with an acceptance or before you even get to the door, so long as you guess right and they are still making money. They probably gave the previous owner around $23K for that trade in.

I wouldn't pull the trigger unless you think you're getting an outstanding deal, not just a normal price. Especially when you have to pay GST and possibly more on top.

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
You have nothing to lose by trying. It's amazing what can happen to things like the 100% money-grab fees when they think they have a sale and you walk out. You'll probably get a call the next day with an acceptance or before you even get to the door, so long as you guess right and they are still making money. They probably gave the previous owner around $23K for that trade in.

I wouldn't pull the trigger unless you think you're getting an outstanding deal, not just a normal price. Especially when you have to pay GST and possibly more on top.

It was a lease-back that they purchased from Audi Canada.

If I'm correct with my numbers, the residual for this car is ~50% of its MSRP ($49,500) so they would have paid roughly $25k for it. It could have been more or less, but I have no way of verifying haha.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by riander5
Not sure how you can consider an a5 when an s4 is similar in price... twice the car, plus i think s4's look just as nice as their two door brethren

A5 is one of the better looking coupe out there. And S4 with DSG may have higher potential repair bills.


Originally posted by rx7boi


It was a lease-back that they purchased from Audi Canada.

If I'm correct with my numbers, the residual for this car is ~50% of its MSRP ($49,500) so they would have paid roughly $25k for it. It could have been more or less, but I have no way of verifying haha.

4 year residual is around 40% for Audi. That said, CBB say it is still worth $23-$28K depends on condition. So probably retail for $25-$30 which make the asking price on par on the 2013 A5.

[Tenkara Way]

Side note, man those S4 are not cheap and rather rare to find.

Autotrader, use as leverage at a minimum:

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Audi/A5/North+Vancouver/British+Columbia/5_29998129_20100630140931262/?ursrc=pl&urp=2&urm=4&showcpo=ShowCPO


And more: http://www.autotrader.ca/cars/audi/a5/ab/calgary/?kwd=s+line&prx=1000&prv=Alberta&loc=calgary&sts=New-Used&yRng=2012%2c2014&hprc=True&wcp=True&inMarket=advancedSearch

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by rx7boi


It was a lease-back that they purchased from Audi Canada.

If I'm correct with my numbers, the residual for this car is ~50% of its MSRP ($49,500) so they would have paid roughly $25k for it. It could have been more or less, but I have no way of verifying haha.

So they are into it for say $25,000 (possibly less) + anything it needed to bring it "up to spec", if you can get that information, you can probably make a well educated offer. Give them $500-$1000 profit tops if you think you can calculate it accurately, don't pay any fees (other than GST), that's what I've always done anyways and it's worked well for me.

A good salesman should be showing you all that for a completely transparent quick sale and a guaranteed profit for them.

[Tenkara Way]

Mitsu3000gt is available for half day consultations at his current market rate. Right there by your side saving you thousands. I get my commission from Mitsu3000gt for putting you two together.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Tenkara Way
Side note, man those S4 are not cheap and rather rare to find.
[/url]

http://www.autotrader.ca/cars/audi/s4/ab/calgary/?prx=100&prv=Alberta&loc=calgary&sts=New-Used&yRng=2010%2c&hprc=True&wcp=True&inMarket=advancedSearch&srt=4

18 in Calgary and area, as cheap as $26K.

[redblack]

See if they can toss in Audicare for free.

[rx7boi]

You guys are awesome :love: :love: Thanks so much for everyone's help so far.

There certainly are alot of choices out there but I'm specifically looking for a low-mileage car. I'm happy to walk away from this A5 if it's not a great deal.


Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


So they are into it for say $25,000 (possibly less) + anything it needed to bring it "up to spec", if you can get that information, you can probably make a well educated offer. Give them $500-$1000 profit tops if you think you can calculate it accurately, don't pay any fees (other than GST), that's what I've always done anyways and it's worked well for me.

A good salesman should be showing you all that for a completely transparent quick sale and a guaranteed profit for them.

I've only ever purchased one car, and that was my 2012 Genesis Coupe when it was new.

Are you guys saying I could potentially get away with this A5 for ~$27000? Is $1000 profit even something that an Audi dealership would bother with?

I just got a text from the Audi rep as well. They've finished the CPO inspection. All brakes are practically brand new so there was nothing for them to replace there.


Originally posted by Tenkara Way
Side note, man those S4 are not cheap and rather rare to find.

Autotrader, use as leverage at a minimum:

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Audi/A5/North+Vancouver/British+Columbia/5_29998129_20100630140931262/?ursrc=pl&urp=2&urm=4&showcpo=ShowCPO


And more: http://www.autotrader.ca/cars/audi/a5/ab/calgary/?kwd=s+line&prx=1000&prv=Alberta&loc=calgary&sts=New-Used&yRng=2012%2c2014&hprc=True&wcp=True&inMarket=advancedSearch

Thanks for posting that. I actually missed that ad so perhaps I wasn't searching BC enough.

[roll_over]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
$990 in moneygrab fees? No way would I pay that, especially the "vehicle prep" which is what you do before you sell a vehicle...for free. I've also never seen anyone pay a "finance acquisition" fee in my life - you're already paying them over $2700 in interest and have to pay GST on the vehicle for the second (or third or fourth) time in its life.


I’d definitely negotiate a bit more but the finance acquisition fee is completely fair and normal IMO.

The dealer doesn’t see the interest, the lender does. They get paid to set you up with financing, if you don’t want to pay this fee then go to your financial institution and get it yourself. Also, there’s a chance you won’t get approved or they have to shop you around to a half dozen different lenders before you do get approved, all while they pull the car off the market and lose potential sales from other clients.

[rx7boi]

I texted the guy and offered $27,500 on the car if they remove the finance acquisition fee and vehicle prep fee. Worst they can say is no.

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by roll_over


I’d definitely negotiate a bit more but the finance acquisition fee is completely fair and normal IMO.

The dealer doesn’t see the interest, the lender does. They get paid to set you up with financing, if you don’t want to pay this fee then go to your financial institution and get it yourself. Also, there’s a chance you won’t get approved or they have to shop you around to a half dozen different lenders before you do get approved, all while they pull the car off the market and lose potential sales from other clients.

If the lender in this case is Audi Canada, Royal Oak Audi doesn't see any of this money, right?

[roll_over]

Originally posted by rx7boi


If the lender in this case is Audi Canada, Royal Oak Audi doesn't see any of this money, right?

I didn’t know it was Audi Canada, I just assumed you were going through a bank or some other lender.

[rx7boi]

I offered them $27500 for the car.

Sales rep was quick to tell me that they don't have $7000 margin on this car and that it costs them half a mil a month just to run this building.

I asked them to give me a number but they refused and offered to "take my credit card number" and asked me to make another offer instead.

[SkiBum5.0]

Originally posted by roll_over


I’d definitely negotiate a bit more but the finance acquisition fee is completely fair and normal IMO.

The dealer doesn’t see the interest, the lender does. They get paid to set you up with financing, if you don’t want to pay this fee then go to your financial institution and get it yourself. Also, there’s a chance you won’t get approved or they have to shop you around to a half dozen different lenders before you do get approved, all while they pull the car off the market and lose potential sales from other clients.

Cost of doing business - and the dealer makes a holdback on the finance or lease deal. The fee they are charging is pure margin.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by rx7boi
I offered them $27500 for the car.

Sales rep was quick to tell me that they don't have $7000 margin on this car and that it costs them half a mil a month just to run this building.

I asked them to give me a number but they refused and offered to "take my credit card number" and asked me to make another offer instead.

So you should have to pay an inflated price because their building is too nice? :rofl: That's a new one.

They may not have $7K margin but I bet there is plenty there. Did they tell you what they had to do to bring it "up to spec"? If not much, then they probably have high margin. If they did a lot (Like say a full brake job, tires, etc) then they probably don't have as much wiggle room.

They should show you what they paid for the car and how much money they have into it - a good salesman should be totally transparent. Give them their $1000 profit for a quick buck and it's an easy deal for everyone.

Sounds like you're doing the sales dance with them at this point - the worst part of car shopping IMO. I'd probably walk away and wait for them to call you back but it's up to you. If this particular sample isn't your dream car or you aren't getting it for the price you want just walk away and give yourself at least a day to think about it - it's a lot of money (at least it would be to me haha). It's easy enough to get a good deal with no fees on a used car, there's no reason why you shouldn't be getting that.

It's also nearing month end and it costs the dealer money the longer that car is on the lot, so you might find they get more willing to deal closer to the end of the month. They also like to pad their monthly sales numbers by cramming in as many sales as possible before the month closes. You could try make your offer again at the end of the month, and in the meantime wait to see if they call you back.

[rx7boi]

I respectfully told him that I felt $31,400 was an average market price.

Friends in the industry also told me that if a dealership does not respond with a counteroffer, then typically I started too low.

As for bringing it up to spec, I think I mentioned back a couple of posts that the Audi guy texted me saying the CPO inspection was done and that the brakes were pretty much brand new all-around. When I had test driven the vehicle as well, the winter tires came back brand new from the lease. He did not mention anything else that needed to be replaced but I haven't seen the CPO report myself.

I asked him how much they're into the car for when we first met. He was reluctant to tell me and said that he doesn't find out what they bought the car for until after I sign and close the deal (????).

The car came in 3 days ago so they definitely are not in a hurry to sell. I imagine that they're probably going to put new summer tires on the rims and take their chances with the next buyer.

[Mitsu3000gt]

So if I understand you correctly, they don't really have any money into it. That means their margin is (probably) on the high side.

He should be telling you all those things, they aren't secrets and if he says he can't access that information that's a red flag. I've had all those things shown to me before with zero resistance.

He told you he can't see the trade in value until after you sign? That is shady AF. Their pricing, and lowest offer they are willing to accept are all based off that info. They for sure know it. In fact he already told you he knows what it is because he said there wasn't $7000 of margin on the car. Only way he'd know that is if he knew exactly what they were into it for, so he lied to your face.

Not a good enough deal to waste further time & effort on in my opinion, and it sounds like they are happy to be screwing you around. You've already caught them in a lie - what else are they lying about? If it's still sitting there in a month they will probably be more willing to deal. Just my opinion based on the info here anyway.

[rx7boi]

I agree. I can't ascertain how much of what he's saying is true or not.

He said that his manager typically won't tell him what the margins are. All he can do is bring an offer to them and see if they say yes or no. Seems like the sales rep are really just a middle man and have no power whatsoever.

I don't care about their overhead costs, I actually don't even care about what their margins are. All I care about is getting a good enough deal and so far their pricing does not reflect that.

Funny enough, we got to a point where he asked me if $31,400 would be enough for me to take the car. I asked him "well...wasn't $31,400 the list price of the car that you were asking to BEGIN with?" but apparently that was only if I took the $1700 CPO warranty as well.

I'll have to think about what my walk-away price is. Perhaps $27,500 for the car is too low. I might offer $29k and leave it at that as neither parties are in a rush.

[852VR6]

PM'd

[Mitsu3000gt]

Haha he asked you is full asking price was good? I'm sure he'd love that.

I wouldn't raise my offer unless I loved the car and didn't think I'd ever find another one. No need to over pay AND pay GST, that makes for a bad deal. Let them sit on your offer for a while, they might give you a call and either accept or magically be able to tell you what their 'bottom' line is (which will give you a new starting point for negotiation) but it it will be further than you've got so far.

If you want to offer $29K maybe do so with all fees & warranty included. Remember you will be pissing away ~$1500 in GST on top for absolutely nothing, which is not an insignificant sum of money and could be going toward a nicer car in a private sale, a new set of rims, etc. Figure out what your absolute bottom end all-in price is, offer them that, and then if they still want to charge you fees and such, that can come out of their end. Either way I would leave them with your current offer and wait though. It sounds like you're even entertaining other models of Audis and you aren't overly attached to this one - I'd sit on it for a while and see what happens. It's hard not to get excited and caught up in the sales pressure but there will always be something better that comes along. You also already know they are lying to you.

[rx7boi]

Thanks! I guess anything is possible but I doubt that I could get $29k OTD. That would mean they'd be selling the car to me for $26,000, even lower than my original offer.

Typically, the list price for a 2013 A5 with similar KM's is around the low-mid 30's before any fees and taxes.

I clarified with him. I think there was some misunderstanding and he meant $31,400 for both the A5 and CPO would be an aggressive offer.

Right now, the rep suggested bringing a $31000 offer (with 2yr CPO) to his manager.

I don't want to say that the sales guy is lying to me. He's been fairly helpful and I'm happy to do business with him even if he doesn't show me all the numbers. Is it possible that salespeople don't actually know the margins on the car?

[Mitsu3000gt]

The reason you know he's lying is that he said there wasn't $7000 of margin on the car. If he knows that, he knows what they paid for it, and he lied to you later.

Go for $31,000 all-in with GST, money-grab fees, warranty, etc. Otherwise you are going to be looking at more like $33,600...which is pretty much their very first offer.

You're trying harder than I would be haha - I'd let them sit on a lower offer for a while. Don't fight for an average deal.

[roopi]

I wouldn't raise the offer either like you are thinking. If they won't give you a counter they will wait for your next offer and then counter. They will squeeze more money out of you.

If you really want the car then decide on your absolute highest price you are willing to pay then either:

1. Offer that price and tell them this is your best offer and there is no room for negotiation. If they don't accept it then just move on. Be prepared to walk using this method. If they come back a day later with a counter just tell them you are already looking at other vehicles and the only way you will consider theirs is if they meet your price. There are plenty of cars out there.

2. Offer lower then your best offer and see if you get a counter and play the stupid negotiation game. Just be prepared to cut it off at some point. They will try and squeeze every cent out of you.

[Tenkara Way]

The dealership has a few plates in the air (CPO, two fees, summer rim/tires, building cost) in order to move them about as they see fit in order to get you to pay as much as possible. At this point, I'd move along knowing the car is not for me. For sure I'd be dropping the salesperson as he is a lying F right from the get-go. It is an Audi, there will another one for sale next week.

You want an S4 anyways. Right?

Watch the movie Fargo, this Audi salesperson is taking his techniques right from Fargo.

B2LLB9CGfLs

[rx7boi]

Okay, sounds good guys.

A Beyond member who works at Glenmore Audi sent me a PM earlier today so I will definitely take some time to reconsider my options if I can't come to a deal with Royal Oak.

I'm open to both an A5 and S4, and the S4 was preferable only if they wouldn't budge on the A5 price. I love the A5 coupe styling but I am not desperate to get into one. An S4 is just as good, if not better.

That said, the 2012 S4 was obtained via ADESA auction and has a 6k claim on it, not to mention that it won't come CPO'd and would cost a small fortune to fix if something happened. Additionally, it's not often that you see a 2012 S4 with only 56,000 on the odometer for the $32k pricetag.

[riander5]

6k was probaby a fender bender. Car probably wasnt hit too hard -

Reference - Iv been creamed twice in two years and am shocked at what it cost to fix the cars

[Mitsu3000gt]

I rear ended someone in my S4 at under 5km/h, minimal cosmetic damage, and it was over $10,000. Over $5000 of that was the headlights. Doesn't take much to get to $6000 but you need to find out exactly what was done. If it was body work, you want to inspect that area and make sure it was good work. You can probably also use that claim to your advantage when negotiating.

[roopi]

Originally posted by rx7boi
Okay, sounds good guys.

A Beyond member who works at Glenmore Audi sent me a PM earlier today so I will definitely take some time to reconsider my options if I can't come to a deal with Royal Oak.

I'm open to both an A5 and S4, and the S4 was preferable only if they wouldn't budge on the A5 price. I love the A5 coupe styling but I am not desperate to get into one. An S4 is just as good, if not better.

That said, the 2012 S4 was obtained via ADESA auction and has a 6k claim on it, not to mention that it won't come CPO'd and would cost a small fortune to fix if something happened. Additionally, it's not often that you see a 2012 S4 with only 56,000 on the odometer for the $32k pricetag.

Is the S4 at Royal Oak as well?

[rx7boi]

Nope, the S4 is an independent dealer.

[theedge111]

Have you driven an S4?

Im not sure how an A5 would even be considered if you have. Sure the A5 looks good, but it's worlds apart from the S4 ....does the S4 have the sport diff, and is it a dsg or manual?

Ive got a pretty serious Audi hookup if you need help...

[roll_over]

Originally posted by SkiBum5.0


Cost of doing business - and the dealer makes a holdback on the finance or lease deal. The fee they are charging is pure margin.

Yeah, it’s a margin for taking time out of your day to help the buyer out. If you don’t want to pay it then you can always get financing yourself.

When you’re trading in a not so desirable car and can’t afford to pay the balance (or entire amount) in cash then you’re not really in a power position and people have got to start realizing that. They’re doing you a service by getting you financing and getting you in that car so either you pay the fees and get the car or save your money and come back with cash then negotiate.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Adesa can have some decent stuff but I've seen a lot of absolute shit passed off as nice come through there as well.

[bbbc]

You know what fam, if you truly want either of these cars, you would have it already.

Just keep the Genny.

[zhao]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


So you should have to pay an inflated price because their building is too nice? :rofl: That's a new one.

They may not have $7K margin but I bet there is plenty there. Did they tell you what they had to do to bring it "up to spec"? If not much, then they probably have high margin. If they did a lot (Like say a full brake job, tires, etc) then they probably don't have as much wiggle room.

They should show you what they paid for the car and how much money they have into it - a good salesman should be totally transparent. Give them their $1000 profit for a quick buck and it's an easy deal for everyone.

Sounds like you're doing the sales dance with them at this point - the worst part of car shopping IMO. I'd probably walk away and wait for them to call you back but it's up to you. If this particular sample isn't your dream car or you aren't getting it for the price you want just walk away and give yourself at least a day to think about it - it's a lot of money (at least it would be to me haha). It's easy enough to get a good deal with no fees on a used car, there's no reason why you shouldn't be getting that.

It's also nearing month end and it costs the dealer money the longer that car is on the lot, so you might find they get more willing to deal closer to the end of the month. They also like to pad their monthly sales numbers by cramming in as many sales as possible before the month closes. You could try make your offer again at the end of the month, and in the meantime wait to see if they call you back.

few things wrong here:

1) the salesman likely does not have any clue what the margin is, nor will he until he sells the car. A salesmanager will know it roughly, but they absolutely do not want the salesmen to know because if you work on commission all you would sell is the vehicles with 10g profit in them and would never sell something that only has 1g in profit.

2) it is completely possible they traded this badboy in from someone and took a bath on it in service, in the bodyshop, or when negotiating with the customer. it is also possible they bought it from auction and it's sat there for 9 months and have had to discount it down to near what they paid for it from depreciation.

3) good advice on month end, but month end is not hte end of the month usually. month end cut off is in the next couple days most likely, or today actually, but every dealership is different. trying to be a month end volume number is how I have bought every car from a dealership, but I negotiate usually over the course of weeks also.

4) good advice on most everything else. The salesman couldn't give two shits about the cost of the building, or keeping hte heat on. they want sales and would be happy 9/10 times to see the dealership close the doors next month if it means they sold 5 extra cars this month.

OP:

IMO OP's offer and their lack of counter offer is a clear indication he is completely out to lunch. I would completely write this particular car off and negotiating on it. It is likely they have you pegged as an idiot at this point, or there just isn't any room in that. Sales will blow a customer out the door if their offer is out to lunch. It is unlikely they will give you a smoking deal on any other car there as well now that you've stamped the type of customer you are into their brains. IMO who gives a crap, its just business so go find another one at another dealership if you really want one. I was blown out the door this year at one bmw dealership offering 30g on a 335i they were asking 35g for. ya, my offer kinda sucked for them, but I bought the same car a month later (technically it was a newer one actually, with more options, but it did have more km) from another bmw dealership for the same offer. So my offer was fine for the car, just not the first car/first dealership to make it work

OP, are you really sure you want an a5 anyway? They do not make a lot of sense to me personally. It's a big boat of a car without any interior space so i'm not a fan of GT style cars like that. It'll never be worth anything once it gets old because big cars that are not fun to drive are never worth anything; it wont even have value as a commuter car or family car for people because its not a 4 door, and it's an audi so its going to be murder on maintenance someday. But it's so much more then that; an A5 is gutless on top of that all, meaning its not even a good GT car today, so the only value is in it's status, which is a 5 year old 3rd rate German luxury car. If you keep it for awhile you're going to have to find the type of guy who wants to buy a 10 year old gutless useless 3rd rate german car purely as a status symbol...... that translates into you'll be dealing with non stop idiots trying to unload it.

Plus it's not even priced well right now; for the price of an 2013 A5 you can literally get a 2012/2013 C350 coupe 4matic (last style) for less, or for under 30g you can get a 2012/2013 335i (last style also) and both those things have balls at least, and in the case of the 335i it's actually a pretty good drivers car (much better than the new F chassis).

And before you poopoo that those are last gen models, know that your current gen 2013 A5 is going to be a last gen model this year when the 2018s are released and resale is going to tank hard (whereas the other 2 resale already tanked hard).

[rx7boi]

Thanks everyone. I let the Audi guy know during the weekend that I'll continue to look.

Even thought this A5 wasn't bad, I had originally wanted something with less than 50k km's.

@zhao, I agree with you on alot of the points. I didn't feel like this salesperson was trying to lie to me at anytime. He's been great to work with and I've had many other friends in the industry tell me that salespeople in fact do not know the exact margins. They can only guess just like I can. He's been trying to sell me on value of the add-on's in textbook ways (telling me that the winter tire package is worth $3200) but that's all part of the business anyway.

I actually didn't bring an official offer to the salesmanager. I suppose that I had said $27,500 just to try my luck but knowing that it had only been on the lot for 2 days, I knew there was no way they would accept that, let alone $29k all-in. The salesperson wouldn't have bothered to bring that offer to his salesmanager either as he would just look foolish himself. In essence, he was telling me that a $27.5 is a waste of time. I knew it and he knew it, and I appreciate that he was able to say that.

I might have to go back to the drawing board or at least look at other options like a C-class or a 3 series. I really like the A5 for the sleeker coupe styling. I've looked at C250/350 coupes and they don't really look like much to me. I also prefer the Audi MMI and interior but I have to say that it is slightly overpriced in its class.

Just a couple more things, I know that alot of people in this thread have been questioning why I'm not just buying an S4 instead.

As we know, the S4 is a more expensive vehicle with more potential repair/maintenance costs. I can't CPO a used Audi unless I buy it through the dealership and I certainly don't have the funds to foot a $6000 repair bill. I'm not sure if that means that I should probably not own an Audi. Financially, it just makes sense for me to stick with a vehicle in the low 30's. As I mentioned before, it's rare that there's a low mileage 2012 S4 for under $33,000 unless you're looking privately

Secondly, I want a lower mileage vehicle so that there's a lower likelihood of needing repairs down the road, especially if I run out of coverage on it. I think I have more peace of mind owning a simple 2.0T than a 3.0T supercharger.

I test drove the 2012 S4 this weekend. It's optioned with the sports diff and pulled like a beast but looking under the hood, I could see that there was an APR CF intake. I couldn't tell if the car was tuned or not as the last time I drove a stock S4 was over a year ago. The steering wheel was worn all the way down. Despite the $6500 claim on the car, it seems like an AMAZING deal on paper. It's been on their lot for 3 weeks and seeing as there's no shortage of peeps looking for S4's, I really wonder why it hasn't been snatched up at this point.

Again, this has been valuable. I've never bought a used car before so this will give me a basis for comparison as I keep looking.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Make sure to buy one with warranty. We took a 2011 a5 in on trade with only 75 000kms on it. It needed $6000 worth of work in the shop. Turbo wastegate shot, valve cover leaking, needed rear brakes, new pcv system etc.

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Make sure to buy one with warranty. We took a 2011 a5 in on trade with only 75 000kms on it. It needed $6000 worth of work in the shop. Turbo wastegate shot, valve cover leaking, needed rear brakes, new pcv system etc.

Ouch. What could have happened to warrant those kinds of repairs? Was it driven hard or just run-of-the-mill expensive German repairs?

[mo_money2supe]

Lots of talk about the finances side of things, so I don't have much more to add. If you are going through the dealer, at least get them to sneak in the 10-yr/160,000km CPO extension. It's only a $1-2k add-on depending on the car. Well worth it in my opinion. Also, keep in mind the A/S5's new MSRP were ~$5k more than the 4-dr counterpart A/S4's, so that will impact used pricing.

There was an earlier comment about getting the dealer to throw in AudiCare. These packages can only be purchased new, but it does follow the VIN of the car, not the owner. So OP, try to find a used one that already has AudiCare on its VIN for free maintenance, especially on any of the 3.0T models with a DSG; the DSG service is easily a $1k job itself. Keep in mind though that the base AudiCare package was only for 5 years from the in-service date of the vehicle or something like 75k (don't remember the exact kilometerage).

A few comments on your choices of cars themselves:
- 2009-2012 is the B8 generation
- 2013-2016 is the B8.5 gen (mid-model body update)
- While the B8.5 updates were mostly cosmetic, if comparing apples-to-apples (A-models vs the S's), a B8.5 DSG S4/5 also has a centre diff in addition to the optional sports diff; steering changed from hydraulic to electric (pros/cons to each); MMI updates incl. bluetooth streaming that the B8's sorely lacked; flat-bottom & fatter steering wheel (on the S-models); minor interior trim highlights; just to name a few.
- Assuming the A5 is a 2.0T (not the 3.2 V6), even with a Stage 3 upgrade (K04 turbo), it will still be slower than the 3.0T supercharged S4/5's stock. Not to mention, a Stage 2 upgrade on the S4/5's are significantly cheaper than the 2.0T Stg3 and can easily get you into the low 12s in the 1/4 (depending on D/A's, often into the 11s too). Then there's the dual-pulley options on the 3.0T and the so-called APR Ultracharger (to be released in "2-weeks"), each of which under ideal conditions are sneaking the car into the 10s. ;) :burnout:

Let me know if you have any more questions about the cars/models themselves. I would consider myself fairly competent with the A's & S-models, particularly the aftermarket world.