More police issues with CPS this time from the Police Watchdog ASIRT

[gwill]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-police-asirt-officers-investigation-chaffin-hughson-1.4005029

Police watchdog ASIRT accuses Calgary force of protecting its own with 'unprincipled' practices

Interesting to see the police watchdog put CPS on blast for many major concerns. Of course we only see this because the media did a bunch of FOIP requests.

Interesting to note ASIRT being concerned about:
CPS disclosing evidence gathered against the subject officer to his or her lawyer while the investigation is still underway and before the Crown has decided whether to recommend charges.

I actually had this exact issue come up during a 3 year long complaint i had filed with the professional standards branch. Our resident cop downplayed the fact all of my interviews, recordings and evidence were provided to the police officers i made a complaint against even though my complaint was still being investigated.

The article states CPS was providing this data to officers well before they had provided their own statements. From the article:

"I am unaware of any other type of investigation where the fruits of the investigation are shared with the subject of that investigation before it has even concluded," wrote Hughson.

"Furthermore, I cannot imagine a more unprincipled practice that has the obvious potential outcome of tainting any statement the subject officer could provide and leaving it fraught with the possibility of tailoring to be consistent with the evidence of other witnesses."

But CPS admits this is common practice.

In my case I had my investigator completely avoid speaking to my witness, asked another to lie for him and told this witness he would make me go away once she provided him what he wanted. They also provided everything to the lawyers very early into the investigation(of which phil blasted me for it being normal). It took me multiple appeals and requests for information to see all the non sense that was happening. But the officers get everything and everything before their statements are even taken...

Good to see the watchdog is aware and trying to change the issues. We may actually get real impartial investigations done that aren't spent protecting their own.

[Gestalt]

So the only write their own statement of events, after they have everyone elses? This is so they cant get caught in a lie. That's completely unethical and inappropriate.

A lot of accountability should be present and trasnparancy in anyone serving the public.

[gwill]

I know its mind boggling. It makes no sense as to why they do that unless their intention was to help the police officers. I said before that the investigations arent very fare and are very biased. Phil called me all sorts of names as he defended the investigatory process.

Phil actually said its normal to hand over everything to the officers.. which cps does but the police watchdog doesnt agree.

Can anyone give a good reason for why the police should be allowed to do this?

[Buster]

Law enforcement has made protecting its own interest a priority over public safety since the dawn of time. It's probably way better now, than it ever has been.

But it will ALWAYS be that way.

[sr20s14zenki]

Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

[Feruk]

We give government employees (cops, soldiers, politicians to some extent, etc) powers above and beyond any average citizen, and yet the penalties for fucking up are the same or more minor ("protecting their own"). That's insanely unbalanced. I believe that if a cop is caught breaking the law with intent and pre-planning while on duty (or using the fact that he's a cop), the maximum possible penalty should instantly double.

[RickDaTuner]

Not that I'm defending this practice.

But...

Can you imagine how many dirty, dishonest, and manipulative cops there actually are in the CPS?
I'd imagine about 60% of the force would be in jail.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Feruk
We give government employees (cops, soldiers, politicians to some extent, etc) powers above and beyond any average citizen, and yet the penalties for fucking up are the same or more minor ("protecting their own"). That's insanely unbalanced. I believe that if a cop is caught breaking the law with intent and pre-planning while on duty (or using the fact that he's a cop), the maximum possible penalty should instantly double.

Look at all the political, corporate, banking, etc, scandals and crimes. Usually no one gets charged let alone convicted, or if some are convicted, they get a slap on the wrist.

The rest of us peasants? GUILTY until proven innocent, and you can be damned sure your life will forever be fucked up.

This vast and encompassing injustice has occurred since day one, and will continue until we put an end to self righteousness (elitism) and a judicial system that heavily favors monetary value instead of human value.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
Not that I'm defending this practice.

But...

Can you imagine how many dirty, dishonest, and manipulative cops there actually are in the CPS?
I'd imagine about 60% of the force would be in jail.

So this is basically just a big anti-cop fest. I get it. Yes, there are issues with what they can do and what we cannot. Yes, clearly there are issues inside the department which need to be addressed. I'm absolutely not downplaying these things nor do I believe they are acceptable, but I would imagine most forces deal with the inequality to a large degree, as well as questionable practices.... perhaps to a smaller degree.

However, making statements like 60% of the force being in jail is not even remotely close to real numbers. Now, should 60% of the force have been reprimanded for actions they took at some point in their careers, but it was instead conveniently "overlooked"? Very possibly - I honestly couldn't say either way, but making statements like this is similar to what we are seeing in the USA from Trump. Suggestions without any realistic backing, and fear mongering. It doesn't help anyone.

[gwill]

Its interesting to note that cps isnt on record yet saying theyll change their practices. As of now they are looking into things for ASIRT.

Is it that hard to have an unbiased investigation, Whats their to look into?

[revelations]

Im sure the CPS is hoping that this will just go away. I dont believe ASIRT has any power to actually recommend changes to the Police Act.

As for 60% of the force in jail? No way - maybe 40% :nut: (jk) ....

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Kloubek
However, making statements like 60% /snip/.

Whatever the number, you can be darn sure for that every 1 such instance, there's a hell of a lot more that the public will never know about.

[gwill]

Originally posted by revelations
Im sure the CPS is hoping that this will just go away. I dont believe ASIRT has any power to actually recommend changes to the Police Act.

As for 60% of the force in jail? No way - maybe 40% :nut: (jk) ....

Im not sure asking for proper protocols to avoid tainting an internal investigation has anything to do with the police act. These are police officers who deal with investigations on a daily basis. They know exactly what they are doing but dont care.

They dont treat criminals the same way so why are we treating potential crimes by the police differently.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by Feruk
We give government employees (cops, soldiers, politicians to some extent, etc) powers above and beyond any average citizen, and yet the penalties for fucking up are the same or more minor ("protecting their own"). That's insanely unbalanced. I believe that if a cop is caught breaking the law with intent and pre-planning while on duty (or using the fact that he's a cop), the maximum possible penalty should instantly double.

I absolutely agree. Violating your power or trust or whatever should automatically earn a stiffer penalty. Also because more than that, you are a role model.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by Kloubek


So this is basically just a big anti-cop fest. I get it. Yes, there are issues with what they can do and what we cannot. Yes, clearly there are issues inside the department which need to be addressed. I'm absolutely not downplaying these things nor do I believe they are acceptable, but I would imagine most forces deal with the inequality to a large degree, as well as questionable practices.... perhaps to a smaller degree.

However, making statements like 60% of the force being in jail is not even remotely close to real numbers. Now, should 60% of the force have been reprimanded for actions they took at some point in their careers, but it was instead conveniently "overlooked"? Very possibly - I honestly couldn't say either way, but making statements like this is similar to what we are seeing in the USA from Trump. Suggestions without any realistic backing, and fear mongering. It doesn't help anyone.

This is a serious matter. We need to nip this in the butt before it turns into what we see in the US where a traffic stop for a tail light can end a person's life without consequences.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Gestalt


We need to nip this in the butt ....
You ARE joking here, right?
I've never actually seen anyone do this.

:rofl:

If not: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dailymuse/2015/06/04/its-not-nip-it-in-the-butt-and-other-idioms-you-might-be-getting-wrong/#6defa7e950c0

[revelations]

Originally posted by gwill


Im not sure asking for proper protocols to avoid tainting an internal investigation has anything to do with the police act. These are police officers who deal with investigations on a daily basis. They know exactly what they are doing but dont care.

They dont treat criminals the same way so why are we treating potential crimes by the police differently.

Yea I am not up on the Police Act and how it works in AB regarding this matter.

ASIRT is just a group of people (my limited understanding) that can point things out and MAKE suggestions, but have very little to do with actually pushing forward legislation.

Thats up to the public to request and the elected officials to enact.

[RickDaTuner]

Originally posted by Kloubek


So this is basically just a big anti-cop fest. I get it. Yes, there are issues with what they can do and what we cannot. Yes, clearly there are issues inside the department which need to be addressed. I'm absolutely not downplaying these things nor do I believe they are acceptable, but I would imagine most forces deal with the inequality to a large degree, as well as questionable practices.... perhaps to a smaller degree.

However, making statements like 60% of the force being in jail is not even remotely close to real numbers. Now, should 60% of the force have been reprimanded for actions they took at some point in their careers, but it was instead conveniently "overlooked"? Very possibly - I honestly couldn't say either way, but making statements like this is similar to what we are seeing in the USA from Trump. Suggestions without any realistic backing, and fear mongering. It doesn't help anyone.

I guess I misstated my point.

It was more an exaggeration to the previous comment.

The fact of the matter is that cops are human, and even the most honourable of us has messed up once or twice, and with that statistic in mind, no one is really safe from the true letter of the law.

I personally don't hate law enforcement, I just dislike the good ole boys club that is evidently still in practice.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

You ARE joking here, right?
I've never actually seen anyone do this.

:rofl:

If not: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dailymuse/2015/06/04/its-not-nip-it-in-the-butt-and-other-idioms-you-might-be-getting-wrong/#6defa7e950c0

Its like duck tape. Everyone thinks they are being clever correcting me, calling it duct tape. They are wrong. Before I became a mechanic, I did HVAC, and no one uses duct tape on ducts. But duck tape is a brand of the cloth tape we love to use on everything else. For ducts, we have sealants and foil tape. Duck tape was invented in ww2 for the military.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by Gestalt


Its like duck tape. Everyone thinks they are being clever correcting me, calling it duct tape. They are wrong. Before I became a mechanic, I did HVAC, and no one uses duct tape on ducts. But duck tape is a brand of the cloth tape we love to use on everything else. For ducts, we have sealants and foil tape. Duck tape was invented in ww2 for the military.
How would duct vs duck tape be anything like what you made a mistake on?

You're saying originally it was supposed to be "nip it in the butt?" :rolleyes:

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by Gestalt


Its like duck tape. Everyone thinks they are being clever correcting me, calling it duct tape. They are wrong. Before I became a mechanic, I did HVAC, and no one uses duct tape on ducts. But duck tape is a brand of the cloth tape we love to use on everything else. For ducts, we have sealants and foil tape. Duck tape was invented in ww2 for the military.

except in this case, you were wrong.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by Disoblige

How would duct vs duck tape be anything like what you made a mistake on?

You're saying originally it was supposed to be "nip it in the butt?" :rolleyes:

Yes. Makes more sense.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer


except in this case, you were wrong.

Indeed. "Butt" was never part of the saying in ANY context.

Just man up guy.... you made a grammatical mistake. It's ok - that one is super common.


Originally posted by Gestalt


Yes. Makes more sense.

No it doesn't. Not at all. "Nip it in the bud" refers to cutting it off before it grows. THAT makes perfect sense.


Anyway, I am not suggesting there is not a problem. Nor am I siding with those cops who practice questionable tactics. I fully support an overhaul, more accountability on their part, and less of a double standard that we seem to see a lot of.

With that said, I feel like there is this enormous anti-cop movement right now... both in our city and especially in the United States. While I appreciate the reasoning behind some of these beliefs, I think that simply bitching about it with embellished negative statistics is doing nothing to both solve the problem as well as aid the GOOD cops in doing their jobs.

Want change? Take action together. Don't bitch about it on a forum and then sit back and expect someone else to take care of it for you. Put up a web site demanding change. Protest outside a precinct. Write to officials. CPS is accountable to the citizens of this city, and if the citizens make a big enough public stink about demanding an overhaul, then it will happen.

It is like any relationship of any sort. You can hold it inside, let it fester and get angry about it (which is basically what is happening here), or you can get it out there and work at making it better. All the former is going to accomplish is creating hatred towards all cops - good or bad, and the "system" in general.

[gwill]

The least people can do is write their city councillor... but lets be honest cps isnt doing anything to help their cause. Every week theres a new ridiculous issue popping up.

This post is a perfect example of continued issues. The fact people only hear about it through foip requests should frighten people.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Gestalt
Yes. Makes more sense.

This is the same level of logic you employed in the weed thread, right? :D

[Gestalt]

You don't nip in a bud ask any gardener.

But let's get back to the importance here. Special treatment and lack of accountability for people in power.

[Maxt]

See what happens when education and policing is all mediocore?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Gestalt
You don't nip in a bud ask any gardener.

But let's get back to the importance here. Special treatment and lack of accountability for people in power.

Nope, I think it's healthy for you to admit you're wrong. Even about something so stupid.


Nip in the bud comes from horticulture, where trimming a bud from a plant prevents the bud from becoming a flower or fruit. Used metaphorically, the phrase usually means to stop a potential problem before it develops

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Maxt
See what happens when education and policing is all mediocore?

...add in someone who doesn't realize that trying so hard to save face is just making himself look worse, and you really have the perfect storm....

[you&me]

Originally posted by Kloubek


...add in someone who doesn't realize that trying so hard to save face is just making himself look worse, and you really have the perfect storm....

Now I'm confused... Is this regarding CPS, or Gestalt? :rofl:

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by you&me


Now I'm confused... Is this regarding CPS, or Gestalt? :rofl:

Oh, I thought this thread had been transformed into a Grammer Police thread as opposed to an actual thread about the police.

Carry on, all....

[Gestalt]

It's not even grammar. It's trendy sayings infarctions.

But a derail by those that don't want to talk about how wrong the concept the OP was posting about is.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Gestalt
It's not even grammar. It's trendy sayings infarctions.


This one is.....



Originally posted by Gestalt
But a derail by those that don't want to talk about how wrong the concept the OP was posting about is.

It's kind of a parallel because, much like CPS, you are being shown the error of your ways again but just making excuses instead of accepting it and growing as an entity. :poosie:

[Gestalt]

Such a need to be right about nothing of meening. :closed:

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Gestalt
Such a need to be right about nothing of meeting. :closed:

Is this another mangled catch phrase, or does it just simply not make any sense?

#cannotdecide

#fuckthepolice

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Gestalt
Such a need to be right about nothing of meening. :closed:

Meaning? :confused:

That assessment kind of sounds like you in the weed thread. :rofl: