Computer programming is hard (H1B India)

[ZenOps]

http://www.gadgetsnow.com/jobs/95-engineers-in-india-unfit-for-software-development-jobs-claims-report/articleshow/58278224.cms

Trump seems to be revoking H1B for computer programmers.

I totally believe the numbers, only about 4.77% of current India graduates can create functional compilable usable code. Of that 1.4% can actually create optimized code that is any better than any other programmer.

BUT

Noone is really willing to give out the US numbers on programming competency either. Its also heavily skewed toward English and traditional programming, which just like basic math they teach nowadays might not be all that useful in the long run.

I learned programming back in the COMAL and Fortran 77 days, when English had nothing to do with programming other than you had to remove it to optimize it, lol.

[Alterac]

From my experience with our in house vs outsourced programmers, this article is fairly accurate.

You get what you pay for.

[rage2]

From my experiencing interviewing hundreds to thousands of Indian grads, this article is 100% accurate.

The key is finding the diamond in the rough when it comes to new grads, which is insanely difficult.

[ee2k]

But here's the thing: they can have 20 stabs at the same problem and finally resolve it, and still cost 1/5th of the US based programmer.

I heard that engineering firms here are also sending work out to Egypt with each work taking multiple tries and still getting done for a lot cheaper.

I am sure that Microsoft and them who advocate for H1B would know what the quality levels are and still go for it.

[rage2]

The article has nothing to do with H1B. H1B's are the top guys out of India who make it onto US soil. Once they're in the US, they're getting paid just as well as a US programmer.

The savings isn't bringing people to the US. It's keeping the people overseas and paying them overseas wages.

[phreezee]

The ones that make it over usually have a Masters degree at least.

[suntan]

ROFL a Masters' Degree makes one a better programmer.

I think I would be the best programmer on the U of C campus if I worked there. :rofl:

[01RedDX]

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[Xtrema]

Originally posted by ee2k
But here's the thing: they can have 20 stabs at the same problem and finally resolve it, and still cost 1/5th of the US based programmer.

Not for long. Kular Lumpur wages doubled after a decade of offshoring. So they used to cost 1/3 of Canadians, now they are 2/3.

Eventually India will go thru the same inflation, although given India's size, they may have more people to chew through to keep prices low. But Rage can correct me if I'm wrong, the market is so cutthroat and move so fast that nobody good will be staying in one company/spot for long.


Originally posted by 01RedDX
Could it be that a huge IT boom and the promise of easy money caused a boom in shitty tech colleges as well?

Possibly. But the way I see on coding is that you either have it or you don't. School is only good enough to teach you basic concepts. Most graduate will only be smart enough to go thru prepackaged dev kits instead of truly understand what they are building/writing.

And reading the comment thread, sounds like school admission system/standard is to blame as well. But just think of all those MCSE and CCNA we have in the 90s and 00s. I would say only 1/2 really know their shit, the rest is just looking for a paycheck.


Originally posted by rage2
The article has nothing to do with H1B. H1B's are the top guys out of India who make it onto US soil. Once they're in the US, they're getting paid just as well as a US programmer.

The savings isn't bringing people to the US. It's keeping the people overseas and paying them overseas wages.

I think ZenOps H1B comment is more about the Disney case.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/14/us/judge-says-disney-didnt-violate-visa-laws-in-layoffs.html

You are right, if you are using Wipro's pricing as indication, once you need one of they Indian staff on site in Canada, they charge like Canadians. The cost saving of offshoring is gone.

But that's how these companies work. They use low offshoring prices to get your business and once you figure out it doesn't work or can't change your business to adapt, you pay more to get them back onshore. Until the next CIO comes in and say they are going to insource to save money. Wait 6 years, everyone forgot what happen before and cycle starts again. :rofl:

[rage2]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Eventually India will go thru the same inflation, although given India's size, they may have more people to chew through to keep prices low. But Rage can correct me if I'm wrong, the market is so cutthroat and move so fast that nobody good will be staying in one company/spot for long.
The inflation is already happening, especially in the last 3 years. It's definitely challenging to keep good people from leaving, but Replicon haven't had a huge ton of good people turnover. People seem to like working for us because of new challenges everyday.

The big turnover are the average employees. They make their living jumping from company to company yearly and take in 20% jumps in salary every change. No different than the original tech boom in NA.