US to impose tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber

[J-D]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/24/us-to-impose-20-pct-duties-on-canadian-softwood-lumber-ross.html

And it begins!

[spikerS]

funny, late last year, Canada imposed some huge tariffs on drywall (up to 276%! :eek: )imported from the states, almost doubled the prices here because of it. Wanted people to shop locally sourced, but the problem is, it is hard to come by.

The beginning was a long time ago, and before Trump, so you can't blame him.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3160923/canadian-trade-tribunal-backs-276-tarriff-on-u-s-drywall/

[jacky4566]

On the bright side new homes should become more affordable.

[My_name_is_Rob]

Originally posted by Article
Canada says will contest any tariff move

I'm interested to see what they mean by this. I personally don't think Canada has the capabilities to negotiate much of anything. I wonder how much lower this Canadian Peso will go?

[spikerS]

Originally posted by My_name_is_Rob


I'm interested to see what they mean by this. I personally don't think Canada has the capabilities to negotiate much of anything. I wonder how much lower this Canadian Peso will go?

obviously, you don't remember the $0.65 days...

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by My_name_is_Rob


I'm interested to see what they mean by this. I personally don't think Canada has the capabilities to negotiate much of anything. I wonder how much lower this Canadian Peso will go?

Well, the last time it happened, we took them to court, fought for a decade or so, won, and then received no compensation.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by spikerS
funny, late last year, Canada imposed some huge tariffs on drywall (up to 276%! :eek: )imported from the states, almost doubled the prices here because of it. Wanted people to shop locally sourced, but the problem is, it is hard to come by.

The beginning was a long time ago, and before Trump, so you can't blame him.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3160923/canadian-trade-tribunal-backs-276-tarriff-on-u-s-drywall/

Those tariffs were overturned, price stayed high.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

The dispute started in 2002, and by 2006 a NAFTA panel ruled in favor of Canada and a settlement was reached for the US to pay back 4 billion of the 5.3 billion dollars it had illegally collected.

Which was a bull shit deal IMO, the US basically got away with cheating Canada out of 1.3 Billion dollars and it cost the province tens of thousands of jobs.


Softwood dispute has been going on since the 80's, not 2002. Did we actually get that 4 billion though? The last time I paid any attention the US was refusing to give it back. That was a decade ago though.

[My_name_is_Rob]

Originally posted by spikerS


obviously, you don't remember the $0.65 days...

Nope, that was probably before my days of buying stuff from the states, and travelling much. But I see your point.


Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Well, the last time it happened, we took them to court, fought for a decade or so, won, and then received no compensation.

So, besides the BC wood that the US is imposing these tariffs on, and the oil that Canada is essentially phasing out, what industries are left to negotiate with?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[sexualbanana]

Isn't Trump also considering an import tax on oil?

[ZenOps]

Softwood has been a trade bargaining chip since I was born.

Canada has always used it as "well, if you let us trade this for this price, then we will throw some wood in for free" Its kind of like the fortune cookie that way.

Makes it very hard to determine actual market price when you do it like that.

Wood is kind of a byproduct of natural progress in North America. I mean you have to clear land to do anything anyways. Its sort of like how you get drywall as a byproduct of copper mining - Everybody and their Queen will step over you for the copper penny, but along the way you get a side product that you can build houses out of.

[ZenOps]

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes/natural-resource-taxes/forestry/stumpage

This, like dairy becomes an issue for Canada as paying double. One to the Crown for stumpage fees, and one to the US to sell it to them.

Will production suffer? Probably. One can only pay so many taxmen waiting for their cut before 100% of the profit disappears.

Being taxed on both production and consumption is rough though, not many industries survive that type of punishment. If lumber suffers, so too will progress in Canada, I mean - we haven't even doubled up the highway yet.

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by My_name_is_Rob
I'm interested to see what they mean by this. I personally don't think Canada has the capabilities to negotiate much of anything. I wonder how much lower this Canadian Peso will go?

Canada doesn't have much say in lumber pricing. What primarily drives it is the Crown and Crown stumpage fees. Arguably, its the Queen that should be getting mad if she starts to get less revenue because Trump is asking more.

The trees are right beside us, but its the Queen that will suffer most if production stops.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by spikerS
funny, late last year, Canada imposed some huge tariffs on drywall (up to 276%! :eek: )imported from the states, almost doubled the prices here because of it. Wanted people to shop locally sourced, but the problem is, it is hard to come by.

The beginning was a long time ago, and before Trump, so you can't blame him.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3160923/canadian-trade-tribunal-backs-276-tarriff-on-u-s-drywall/

I remember this and heard about it from people in the industry... The Canadian Gov wanted western provinces to purchase from Quebec instead of cheaper product from the USA.

This boiled my blood when I heard about it, but didn't get much news coverage.

Made me think, if they can impose those tariffs to make us buy eastern product, why don't we charge tariffs on oil to stop the eastern provinces from buying foreign oil when they can buy western Canadian oil.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Fucking Trump



The dispute started in 2002, and by 2006 a NAFTA panel ruled in favor of Canada and a settlement was reached for the US to pay back 4 billion of the 5.3 billion dollars it had illegally collected.

Which was a bull shit deal IMO, the US basically got away with cheating Canada out of 1.3 Billion dollars and it cost the province tens of thousands of jobs.

I don't think the threat has as many teeth as it used to; coastal areas of BC don't send anything to the US anymore. The BC interior will get hit, but it has been depressed ever since the last softwood lumber dispute.

:werd:

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Zhariak


I remember this and heard about it from people in the industry... The Canadian Gov wanted western provinces to purchase from Quebec instead of cheaper product from the USA.

This boiled my blood when I heard about it, but didn't get much news coverage.

Made me think, if they can impose those tariffs to make us buy eastern product, why don't we charge tariffs on oil to stop the eastern provinces from buying foreign oil when they can buy western Canadian oil.

It was an eastern owned company, but, the manufacturing of the drywall happened in BC, AB and MB iirc. So it wasn't such a bad thing.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Zhariak


I remember this and heard about it from people in the industry... The Canadian Gov wanted western provinces to purchase from Quebec instead of cheaper product from the USA.

This boiled my blood when I heard about it, but didn't get much news coverage.

Made me think, if they can impose those tariffs to make us buy eastern product, why don't we charge tariffs on oil to stop the eastern provinces from buying foreign oil when they can buy western Canadian oil.

Eh, there was some defendable reasoning behind it, depending on your views on free trade. The US drywall companies were dumping their overstock into Canada at below-US-market prices because they'd oversaturated their local markets. Dumping in that manner is prohibited under NAFTA, so the Canadian gov't was entirely within its right to put tariffs on it until prices normalized.

[ZenOps]

Drywall is messed up too.

But in Canada, we ship out our gypsum along with copper in the form of copper concentrate. If we ever decided to refine copper in Canada, we would literally have drywall coming out of our ears.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by jacky4566
On the bright side new homes should become more profitable for builders.

FTFY

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Hallowed_point]

^ Wow ..Christy Clark :eek:

(I'm agreeing with her while trying to not to black out.)

[ExtraSlow]

Jesus. Canada isn't going to win a trade war, but it sure would be satisfying for the short term...

[Sugarphreak]

...

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I bet if we got into a trade war with the US, the rest of the world would take our side and we could probably build a far better global trade network... then when Trump is out, resume regular trade with the US

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/white-house-readies-order-to-quit-nafta-administration-official/article34818889/

Uh oh :(

[Sugarphreak]

....

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I bet if we got into a trade war with the US, the rest of the world would take our side and we could probably build a far better global trade network... then when Trump is out, resume regular trade with the US I know that Trudeau will puss out, but wouldn't this be grand?