Savings - replacing furnace

[Impreza]

Considering replacing my 2 old clunker furnaces (they are at least 20 years old) with 2 new high efficiency furnaces. Has anyone replaced their furnaces recently? Have the savings in utilities been significant? How much did you pay for the furnace + installation? Just want to get an idea of what to expect.

[spike98]

Honestly, if your current units are still working i wouldn't look at replacing until a large repair is needed.

Run the numbers

http://www.lennox.com/buyers-guide/tools/energy-savings-calculator

[dirtsniffer]

my parents replaced their 25 year old furnance while it was still functioning. The new HE one breaks down every year.

I would leave it the fuck alone until it breaks.

[ExtraSlow]

You won't save money replacing a unit that is functioning. Also, our comrades in the provincial capitol will be paying for a big chunk of more efficient furnaces soon,, if they aren't already, so don't even think about it unless you are getting this adventure at least partially funded by the taxpayer.

[revelations]

You will likely never recoup the parts and install costs of 2 HE furnaces unless you live in the house for 30 years and Nat Gas prices skyrocket.

We did our windows, not because of savings but because they all looked like shit (10,000$ for entire home). We MAY recoup ~500$ in savings over the next 10 years due to decreased heat loss, but thats probably on the high side.

[rx7_turbo2]

If they're running leave them alone. You probably wont recoup the cost and the new units will have a shorter lifespan than you expect.

[Thaco]

yeah what they said, mine is original with my place built in 79, i'll consider it depending on the rebates offered from the govt in the near future.

But i have only had to repair my current unit one in the past 10 years, new ones i hear breaking down all the time, cost savings on HE will be eaten up by repairs.

[mr2mike]

Let me know if you're doing this.
I'll pick up those old furnaces.

[Xtrema]

Don't replace old shit until they fully shit the bed.

Anything built in the last decade are garbage, regardless the brand. Too many points of failures and electronics.

You want to save energy, spend it on windows and doors and get a programmable thermostat. So your furnace doesn't need to come on as much.

[Thaco]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Don't replace old shit until they fully shit the bed.

Anything built in the last decade are garbage, regardless the brand. Too many points of failures and electronics.

You want to save energy, spend it on windows and doors and get a programmable thermostat. So your furnace doesn't need to come on as much. dont spend money on a thermostat get it from the govt for free :D

[ercchry]

Few variables for cost... but for a pair installed it's going to be around the $10k mark... nat gas usage is such a small percentage of your bill that you'd probably not notice it...

[killramos]

It's pretty easy to estimate the savings based on current usage and the difference between efficiency ratings. Even if you double the difference the numbers won't add up.

New homes are efficient for so many different ways than their furnaces.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Don't replace old shit until they fully shit the bed.

Anything built in the last decade are garbage, regardless the brand. Too many points of failures and electronics.

I've heard that a lot.

Does it refer to just the high efficiency models or is that all you can get? And yes, I understand that a HE model won't make shit of difference on your bill.

[firebane]

I have been watching the comments here because surely updating a low efficient furnace to something more efficient would make a difference.

The furnace in our place had the energy guide sticker and it was at the lowest point for efficiency and with a programmable thermostat the gas usage is crazy high and makes up for the majority of our bill.

[speedog]

Originally posted by firebane
I have been watching the comments here because surely updating a low efficient furnace to something more efficient would make a difference.

The furnace in our place had the energy guide sticker and it was at the lowest point for efficiency and with a programmable thermostat the gas usage is crazy high and makes up for the majority of our bill.

But will your actual natural gas savings make up for the cost of that new furnace if your old furnace kept going for another 10 years. I also have to wonder if the new HE furnaces use more electricity as they do seem to run a lot more than he older furnaces.

[ZenOps]

Coldest winter month (January) for a large house is somewhere on the order of 23GJ , going from a 60% to a 90% will probably save you about 8GJ on that month.

If natgas is around $3 per GJ, you probably didn't burn the extra $24. Realistically its probably around a $120 difference per year.

Add in that HE furnaces usually need some sort of maintenance every other year that usually costs around that much - it pretty much nullifies any savings.

But.. You can feel a little better about having a smaller carbon footprint.

[Maxt]

I get HE furnaces and parts wholesale and can install it myself, I am keeping my standard efficiency furnace for as long as it lasts. It has generic non proprietary controls and fan motor. The way the warranty service is going on the HE furnaces, and the heat exchanger/electronics issues, I want no part of it in my own home.
If you have a HE, especially one with modulating blower, put in on a circuit with surge protection.

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by Maxt
I get HE furnaces and parts wholesale and can install it myself, I am keeping my standard efficiency furnace for as long as it lasts. It has generic non proprietary controls and fan motor. The way the warranty service is going on the HE furnaces, and the heat exchanger/electronics issues, I want no part of it in my own home.
If you have a HE, especially one with modulating blower, put in on a circuit with surge protection.

X2. Plus I have the inexpensive spare parts sitting next to my furnace to keep it running until I retire. (and move)

[eblend]

As everyone else said, the simpler the better. Sure it may use up a bit more gas, but gas is cheap, you won't make up the cost anytime soon, and I hear lots of people with HE furnace issues, seems like a pain.

I had a gas valve issue with my mid-efficiency furnace just this past winter (there is a thread about it), and it took me a while to troubleshoot, but in the end a $125 gas valve replacement is all it took to fix. At one point I was thinking of just saying fuck it and get an HE furnace, but then I read a bunch of horror stories and realized I better get this thing fixed.

Everything nowadays is build to be replaced, so if your current stuff is still good, just let it be.

[ercchry]

The hardest part about this disposable society is trying to find a good furnace company to service the old stuff if you can't do it yourself... had someone working on a house for me and the heat went out, couldn't get there myself so told him just to call some companies... both quotes were basically "not worth to fix, get a new furnace" uhhh... nope, that weekend called a buddy I use to work with and $20 in parts later it was up and running again

[speedog]

My furnace is 30+ years old, efficiency probably probably wasn't even a consideration when it as built but I suspect it's still worth it to keep it going. To date, I've replaced one motor in the past 20 years and a belt at the same time just because.

[eblend]

Originally posted by speedog
My furnace is 30+ years old, efficiency probably probably wasn't even a consideration when it as built but I suspect it's still worth it to keep it going. To date, I've replaced one motor in the past 20 years and a belt at the same time just because.

My parents old house was like that as well. Replace the motor and they were good to go again. Hell those were so simple back then, you didn't even need to have the exact same motor or anything like that, just find the proper voltage and amp rating and you are good to go. Now everything is proprietary.

[relyt92]

Originally posted by speedog
My furnace is 30+ years old, efficiency probably probably wasn't even a consideration when it as built but I suspect it's still worth it to keep it going. To date, I've replaced one motor in the past 20 years and a belt at the same time just because. My parents house has the original furnace from ~1985. Hasn't had any major services in the last 20 years. I doubt it's efficient at all but it seems to work fairly well.

[Impreza]

Thanks! Tons of great info here. I guess I will be hanging onto my existing furnaces for as long as possible.

[speedog]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Coldest winter month (January) for a large house is somewhere on the order of 23GJ , going from a 60% to a 90% will probably save you about 8GJ on that month.

If natgas is around $3 per GJ, you probably didn't burn the extra $24. Realistically its probably around a $120 difference per year.

Add in that HE furnaces usually need some sort of maintenance every other year that usually costs around that much - it pretty much nullifies any savings.

But.. You can feel a little better about having a smaller carbon footprint.

This thread got me a thinking and so I looked back at a year's worth of my natural gas bills and the scenario you describe pretty much nails my house to a tee.

I did comparisons between what a 60% efficiency furnace (what mine probably is) and a 90% model and my savings on natural gas costs would have been whopping $118.21 and in reality it would've been a few dollars less because I did not remove any numbers for my water heater.

Now considering that we just had a 90% efficiency furnace installed at my uncle's place and the cost for that was around $3,500 (if I recall correctly), it would take me almost 30 years at current natural gas prices to recoup my outlay for a new furnace.

And like others have pointed out, maintenance costs on a new furnace are probably quite a bit more than my old clunker so that payback period stretches out even further.

So the math just isn't there as I most likely won't be in this home at the end of those 30 years and I would dare say that that $3,500 invested wisely elsewhere will provide better returns at the end of those 30 years.

The marth, it really does work out this time.

[mr2mike]

Old "clunker" furnaces are easy to maintain and fix.
Speedog, no one runs the #s. They're sold on the fact it's a new technology heating apparatus.


I still reiterate, anyone getting rid of their old furnace PM me. I'll come pick it up.

[speedog]

If I factor in $50 a year for the water heater then the furnace payback period pushes out to just over 50 years and that's still not counting in any increased maintenance costs.

Man, am I ever going to have fun with those door to door and call center furnace people.

[Darell_n]

The cost of a new 90%+ unit plus service is greatly outpacing the cost of fuel, compared to when high efficiency units came on the market. In 10 years it could very well be a 100 year ROI to upgrade a furnace, if the government doesn't interfere further. But if they do, the cost is just hidden in your taxes anyway.

[Darell_n]

Right from the Alberta energy efficiency news letter I just received:

"A good definition of energy efficiency is, “using less energy to provide the same benefit.” Essentially, being energy efficient means our lives run the same way—but more affordably."

It's nice they are flat out lieing right to our faces.

[ExtraSlow]

I try to live my life so that I'm being dollar-efficient, which occasionally means being energy efficient, but not always.