Brian Burke thinks NHL players should get tax breaks

[Buster]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/flames-president-brian-burke-calgary-next-1.4150420


The higher taxation rates in Canada are also unfair for NHL players on Canadian teams. Burke said he believes athletes should be eligible for some sort of tax break.

"These guys make big money but they have short careers," Burke said. "If you're a doctor, you might make a good living for 45 years.… We're going to have to figure out how to tax the athletes equitably for the Canadian teams to be able to compete.


Also, this bit of arrogance:


When pressed ... on why public dollars should be used to finance an arena for the team, Burke said, "I think most intelligent people get this, sorry …."

nice work.

Making it really hard to be fans of these assholes.

[Maxx Mazda]

Did you actually watch the whole video? He made some extremely valid points. While the delivery may not have been perfect, he was spot on with much of what he was saying with regards to revenues not just from the Flames, but concerts, etc.

[JaffX]

You forgot the part where someone said "intelligent people know how to tie their own tie" :rofl:

[ExtraSlow]

Burke is correct about that taxation thing from a player or team perspective too. If the guys pay more taxes, they keep fewer dollars, and if they have choices about where to play their short career, that absolutely factors into their decision making process. The average player is only int eh league for five years, and tons of "lower end" guy play one or two seasons only. That money needs to last.

Now does that mean it's our job as Canadians to "fix" this problem? No. It would be career suicide for any politician to suggest special tax breaks for players.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
That money needs to last.

But it's not like they're complete invalids and incapable of working any job after their NHL career is over.

[ExtraSlow]

No, that's true, but your average NHL player can expect to earn a lower salary for the rest of their working days. A lot of the "utility" players have no special skills, and unlike most other adults their age, haven't spent a decade or more gaining those skills. Don't get me wrong, I'm not feeling sorry for them.

The issue I think is that the NHL players we all remember and think about are the top 10% of the players in terms of salary and career length. Those guys are set for life, plus they have very marketable names for a second career.

[CompletelyNumb]

Sure. But jobs end. Should oil workers get tax breaks due to market crashes? These players know they have a short career, and as adults they should be planning on that. If the NHL cared they'd make a player's pension.

[riander5]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
Sure. But jobs end. Should oil workers get tax breaks due to market crashes? These players know they have a short career, and as adults they should be planning on that. If the NHL cared they'd make a player's pension.

Well we make less than our counterparts in US o&g, maybe it just stretches across all industries haha.

I can agree with Burkes point on players though. Short career, no plans after, tough to want to come back home to make less money. Im not saying NHL players are underpaid but his point makes sense.

As far as the rink, I live downtown and use it quite often so I'm all for using public money. But I am definitely the minority it seems (at least on beyond, my hockey teams all seem in favor haha)

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
These players know they have a short career, and as adults they should be planning on that.

That's a pretty short-sighted way of seeing things.

Most of these players are thrown on the ice almost as soon as they can walk and are brought up to not focus on anything but hockey. We have the luxury of learning these life skills at our own pace while most players don't. During the regular season, just focus on playing. Season's over? Train for the next season. Worse are the guys who put their trust in the wrong people, like Jack Johnson whose parents who blew all his savings.

I'm not saying athletes should get a tax break (because they shouldn't), but for many of them, it's not like they've won the jackpot like the general public thinks it is.

[SOAB]

Originally posted by riander5


Well we make less than our counterparts in US o&g, maybe it just stretches across all industries haha.

I can agree with Burkes point on players though. Short career, no plans after, tough to want to come back home to make less money. Im not saying NHL players are underpaid but his point makes sense.

As far as the rink, I live downtown and use it quite often so I'm all for using public money. But I am definitely the minority it seems (at least on beyond, my hockey teams all seem in favor haha)

and yet everyone is screaming for a race track that would cost hundreds of millions yet be used by significantly less people in the area...

i also found it funny that people are saying that Calgary already has a vibrant downtown. :rofl: go down there on a weeknight and 70% of the stores have no customers or are closed for the day.

[sexualbanana]

Professionals get paid in USD so they already get about a 25-30% bump in pay just by exchange.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by SOAB


and yet everyone is screaming for a race track that would cost hundreds of millions yet be used by significantly less people in the area...

i also found it funny that people are saying that Calgary already has a vibrant downtown. :rofl: go down there on a weeknight and 70% of the stores have no customers or are closed for the day.

That's true and it is quite the double standard. I'd dare say a hockey arena is a better use of tax dollars vs a race track with regards to the benefit to the average Calgarian.

A vibrant downtown? In Calgary? No..that would be in Vancouver/Toronto. Our downtown "nightlife" is absolutely pathetic for a big city.

[ExtraSlow]

I agree a hockey arena is a better use than a race track, for sure.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point


That's true and it is quite the double standard. I'd dare say a hockey arena is a better use of tax dollars vs a race track with regards to the benefit to the average Calgarian.

A vibrant downtown? In Calgary? No..that would be in Vancouver/Toronto. Our downtown "nightlife" is absolutely pathetic for a big city.

Not pathetic; non-existent. 1AM and everyone is home.

[D'z Nutz]

Downtown Calgary is vibrant only if your sample data is collected on a Saturday afternoon in +20 weather at Prince's Island Park. Outside of that, it's a freaking ghost town.

[soloracer]

Originally posted by SOAB


and yet everyone is screaming for a race track that would cost hundreds of millions yet be used by significantly less people in the area...

i also found it funny that people are saying that Calgary already has a vibrant downtown. :rofl: go down there on a weeknight and 70% of the stores have no customers or are closed for the day.

I must have missed the memo, when has any proposed race track in the Calgary area demanded hundreds of millions of dollars from government? All the proposals I have seen have financing from investors and stakeholders to build a track. I'm pretty sure if the Flames organization said "we will fund Calgary NEXT entirely with our own money" it would be built. At issue is how much public money should go into it - something that has never been considered for a race track. And your inclusion of race tracks in the discussion is offensive to those who are putting their own money towards getting one built.

[SOAB]

Originally posted by soloracer


I must have missed the memo, when has any proposed race track in the Calgary area demanded hundreds of millions of dollars from government? All the proposals I have seen have financing from investors and stakeholders to build a track. I'm pretty sure if the Flames organization said "we will fund Calgary NEXT entirely with our own money" it would be built. At issue is how much public money should go into it - something that has never been considered for a race track. And your inclusion of race tracks in the discussion is offensive to those who are putting their own money towards getting one built.

i was mainly talking about people on beyond getting pissed when the city decided to close Race City. people wanted the city to invest lots of money into it so that they wouldn't have to drive 3 hours north to edmonton for a track day.

folks here want to live in a world class city with world class amenities but don't want to help fund them. they would rather see their tax dollars go towards more roads.

[max_boost]

Hard to feel sorry for pro athletes. Even if buddy only played 3-4 years and was only making $500k that's $2mill gross and way more than I make haha

They can always go overseas too where they can make a reasonable living playing in those leagues.

Not being able to manage money is on them. Everyone has to be responsible for their own stuff

[rage2]

Originally posted by SOAB
i was mainly talking about people on beyond getting pissed when the city decided to close Race City. people wanted the city to invest lots of money into it so that they wouldn't have to drive 3 hours north to edmonton for a track day.
That's not what happened. At all. The city didn't decide to close race city. They just priced ownership out of race city. Nobody wanted the city to build us a race track. See for yourself:

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?threadid=286138

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by max_boost
Hard to feel sorry for pro athletes. Even if buddy only played 3-4 years and was only making $500k that's $2mill gross and way more than I make haha

They can always go overseas too where they can make a reasonable living playing in those leagues.

Not being able to manage money is on them. Everyone has to be responsible for their own stuff

You're also forgetting a lot of things like expenses, taxes, agent's commision etc. I've had a few buddies bounces around the NHL system or more so the AHL then off to Europe. Its pretty crazy how much of the money disappears for those guys who are the no bodies.

At best if you're lucky you played in college, go a degree, signed your 3-4 year entry deal and took all that money and put it on a house/invested it then went off to work. But in the case that you didn't or keep pursuing hockey you'll go through a stretch of bouncing around AHL/Europe for less than 100k hoping to get back. It's a tough road.

[max_boost]

^

oh for sure without a doubt but I guess that's the risk reward as every career choice has its challenges.

[spikerS]

intelligent people also know that 5 of the 7 Canadian professional NHL teams play in privately owned venues...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/flames-president-brian-burke-calgary-next-1.4150420


Five out of the seven teams in Canada have privately owned rinks, only Edmonton and Calgary are publicly owned,..."

However, BC Place was built with a loan from the provincial government.

[WhippWhapp]

Pro sports arena's are welfare for billionaires.

They always want the risk public and the profits private.

Arenas sit empty over 95% of the time.

https://www.questia.com/magazine/1G1-21043927/public-welfare-for-billionaires

That's all Canada needs is a fucked system like the states has.

Ask Glendale residents how their stadium deals are panning out, or look @ what the Raiders are swindling out of Vegas.

[dj_patm]

No one is forcing them to A) Play hockey and B) Not work after their career.

Essentially he's saying players should get tax breaks cause they don't want to have to worry about a career after they played a childrens game for a living.

Stupidest thing I've ever heard.

NHL Career over? Well you're sitting on millions. Go get a degree, learn a trade, start a business, do something. Don't whine that your millions aren't enough, are you joking.

As for Calgary not having a vibrant downtown, it's a city of 1.4 million people. Wtf do you expect??? Every single person in their 20's and 30's to go out every day? Calgary's nightlife is completely acceptable for a city of 1.4 million. People see our huge skyline and often forget that this is still a small city. A city of our size usually has a downtown half the size or less. It's a lot easier to make it seem like you have a vibrant downtown when you have one strip of bars like you're in Winnipeg or Edmonton. This city has multiple "bar districts" as well as a bunch of pretty successful suburban bars too.

For a city of it's size Calgary has great nightlife. Realize your comparing it to Vancouver and Montreal which are twice and four times the size ffs.

[austic]

So tax breaks for hockey players :rofl:

I guess I would like a tax break too while we are at it....anyone else want one?

[dj_patm]

Don't these guys incorporate anyways?

They're probably already getting tons of tax write offs and have their people doing a bunch of fancy accounting for them.

Add to the fact that they get most meals paid for, per diems, free clothes/equipment, front of the line health care and tons of other perks and you can really see that this statement is outrageous.

[rage2]

Originally posted by dj_patm
No one is forcing them to A) Play hockey and B) Not work after their career.

Essentially he's saying players should get tax breaks cause they don't want to have to worry about a career after they played a childrens game for a living.
That's not what he's saying. He's saying that Canadian teams have an uphill battle against US teams because players are getting taxed higher, and exchange rate gives the team less spending power. The whole tax break for players was an idea of how to level the playing field (vs lowering taxes for everyone, but yea right that will happen).

I don't think many people reported that he was there to talk about the challenges of an NHL team as a business in Canada. That's the missing context to make it seem like he was just there to bitch about the city.

http://canadianclubcalgary.ca/2017/01/14/june-7-2017-brian-burke-president-of-hockey-operations-calgary-flames/


The Canadian Club of Calgary is extremely pleased to welcome_Brian Burke President of Hockey Operations with the Calgary Flames_as our_June 7, 2017 luncheon speaker, whose talk topic is entitled “The Challenges of Competing in the NHL in Canada”.

The whole moving thing was triggered by some guy asking him questions about moving the team and egging him on in the Q&A period. Burke just got baited and went on a bit of a rant haha.

[dj_patm]

Every employeer has to compete with the US and their lower taxes for top talent. Don't see why the government would care about NHL parity of all things.

Besides, the Purchasing Power increase they get from being paid in USD living in Canada evens up the playing field decently well for those that intend to retire in Canada.

[rage2]

Originally posted by dj_patm
Every employeer has to compete with the US and their lower taxes for top talent. Don't see why the government would care about NHL parity of all things.
There's a huge difference in comparison to a hockey team. As a business, I can hire elsewhere, open up a field office somewhere, and be competitive. You can not do that as a hockey team, unless you move elsewhere. There's a reason why big free agents rarely sign on Canadian teams, making it tougher for Canadian teams to be successful on the ice.


Originally posted by dj_patm
Besides, the Purchasing Power increase they get from being paid in USD living in Canada evens up the playing field decently well for those that intend to retire in Canada.
This is not true at all. Aside from maybe housing, things still cost as much in Canada as it does in the US regardless of exchange rate.

[Kloubek]

I have little sympathy. These guys make a shit ton of money.

From an NHL perspective, it makes sense. From a tax dollars perspective, not so much.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I have little sympathy. These guys make a shit ton of money.

From an NHL perspective, it makes sense. From a tax dollars perspective, not so much.
It basically boils down to, do we want to have a NHL team in the city? If so, are we willing to pay for it?

Unfortunately for us, in the US market that our team compete against, cities are willing to give money away, have better tax structures, just to have a shiny NHL team in the city. Economic benefits? Who cares, hockey teams are a business, and like any other business, if some other city is giving a favorable economic environment for the business of hockey to be more successful financially and competitively, they're going to go.

Calgary is in a unique situation in that the ownership group not only owns a NHL team, but also a CFL team, and we have to deal with a much more expensive project than others to make it work here to satisfy both teams. This is why I think the Vic Park project isn't going to go down, it's CalgaryNEXT or nothing for ownership. Otherwise, the Stamps will be playing in McMahon forever staying here.

[ExtraSlow]

True enough. We give big subsidies and non-repayable loans to other industries in this country. If we value hockey as much as bombardier, horse racing, film and tv and other stuff, we'll pay for it.

[rage2]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
True enough. We give big subsidies and non-repayable loans to other industries in this country. If we value hockey as much as bombardier, horse racing, film and tv and other stuff, we'll pay for it.
I think this is what the public doesn't really see, and surely Nenshi continually going off on the no money for rich private business narrative certainly doesn't help. Although Nenshi has softened up a bit lately, it's now no money without public benefit.

[ExtraSlow]

There are even subsidies for my beloved oil and gas industry too. :hitit:

[dezmarez]

Originally posted by rage2

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that Canadian teams have an uphill battle against US teams because players are getting taxed higher, and exchange rate gives the team less spending power. The whole tax break for players was an idea of how to level the playing field (vs lowering taxes for everyone, but yea right that will happen).




Just came across this article....

http://www.taxpayer.com/media/CTF-HomeIceDisadvantage.pdf

Now this is from 2014, pre-tax hikes of Liberal/NDP governments, but it showed Calgary players were taxed the lowest in the NHL.

[rage2]

Alberta is at 47% now for Flames and Oilers. Not the highest, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, California teams are higher.

Current rates: http://gavingroup.ca/personal-income-tax-rates-in-nhl-cities/

US has way more write offs too.

[max_boost]

Interesting but who wouldn't want to play hockey in Cali? Sounds like a good time if you ask me vs Calgary lol

[dirtsniffer]

This is not a problem for canada to fix. It's a problem for the league to fix. Maybe Canadian teams should get a higher cap .

[btimbit]

They're valid points that he made. Nobody is saying to feel bad for the players, but it definitely does suck as a fan of Canadian teams

[rage2]

This is not a problem for canada to fix. It's a problem for the league to fix. Maybe Canadian teams should get a higher cap .
You'd have to ban trades for that to work haha.

[Kloubek]

True enough. We give big subsidies and non-repayable loans to other industries in this country. If we value hockey as much as bombardier, horse racing, film and tv and other stuff, we'll pay for it.

See, that's the problem though. For people such as myself who love hockey, I certainly wouldn't want to lose our teams in Canada. But even as a die-hard fan, I can't really justify giving huge breaks to NHL teams. As Dirtsniffer mentioned, this is for the league to fix... not our private citizens. The NHL is a business and it makes money. Our citizens shouldn't be chipping in to make it more money. It isn't like the NHL is faltering, so it hardly needs a handout to keep operating.

Then take those who couldn't give two shits about hockey, and they CERTAINLY won't be in favour of giving out tax breaks. In the end, you end up up with a pretty polarized public and some pretty pissed off people who go on to anyone who will listen about how the government is spending money on something that doesn't help them whatsoever. And honestly, I can understand their negative position because I'd probably feel the same way if I wasn't a fan.