"All in" pricing isn't really all in.

[Crazyjoker77]

I've been tossing around the idea of purchasing a truck because there is some nice mfr incentives going on right now. Browsing autotrader, I found a truck I like and the ad goes out of its way to advertise as ALL in+Gst and that they are a amvic dealer. Truck is listed as 39,065 which should work out to 41,018. I fire off a email inquiry(I only deal through email so there is record of correspondence) and they come back saying 44,405 of course with no breakdown. AMVIC website says they can only add licensing and financing fees and having bought lots of new vehicles finance fees are between 350-700$ and I will register it myself.

http://www.amvic.org/consumer/all-inpricingisthelaw/

Example of their adds.
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Chevrolet/Silverado+1500/Edmonton/Alberta/5_34197896_20160616133716332/?orup=85_15_1359

http://www.westgatechev.com/en/new/vehicle-inventory/chevrolet/silverado-1500/2017/?trim=LT&cid=568501

Whats beyonds thoughts? Am I missing something that they are can add on? dealership gonna dealership? Any point in making a complaint to amvic(I'm sure there legally covered because they follow it up with "All prices, specifications and availability subject to change without notice").? Its a chevy truck so its in no shape or form unique and there are literally 100s of others that meet my criteria from other dealers that I will take my business to as having worked in a dealership previously I really cant stand the unethical and shady business practices such as these but if they are going to pull this crap they should expect some bad press.

[J-hop]

All dealerships are like this from what I've found. I shook hands with a sales rep at a Subaru dealer, looked him in the eye and asked if this was the out the door price and he said yes. I go to pay and the end price was $495 above what we shook on........

It's a fucking piss off but not much you can do

[max_boost]

lol all dealerships add things like etch, doc fee, or some sort of in house package that's mandatory (floor mats, wheel locks, splash guards) etc. this is all on top of the usual freight, pdi, ac, amvic, tire tax etc.

It does get a bit confusing for the average consumer but seeing how most people just focus on the payment (what they can afford) they don't really care and ask for the full itemized breakdown.

Anyway, IMO. If you know what the pricing is and what you want to pay, just offer that and not a cent more. Good luck.

[speedog]

All dealerships are like this from what I've found. I shook hands with a sales rep at a Subaru dealer, looked him in the eye and asked if this was the out the door price and he said yes. I go to pay and the end price was $495 above what we shook on........

It's a fucking piss off but not much you can do

For $495, I would've had quite a serious discussion with that sales rep - eat the $495 or deal is off.

[J-hop]

For $495, I would've had quite a serious discussion with that sales rep - eat the $495 or deal is off.

Funny the sales rep ghosted when we went to pay for the car and they "couldn't find him". If it weren't for the fact it was the best condition lowest mileage Impreza of that age we had found and we already negotiated 5% off the price including a couple extras I would have 100% walked.

[spike98]

All dealerships are like this from what I've found. I shook hands with a sales rep at a Subaru dealer, looked him in the eye and asked if this was the out the door price and he said yes. I go to pay and the end price was $495 above what we shook on........

It's a fucking piss off but not much you can do

You can walk. I do every single time. They don't expect it and it almost always ends up with them chasing me down.

[Buster]

Get them to send you the sales contract ahead of time

[J-D]

This drives me absolutely nuts, and AMVIC is useless. Pretty much makes me stereotype all car dealers as scum when I want to buy something.

I think they get around it because they always have a higher sticker price, so when you negotiate lower they aren't really "exceeding the advertised price"

[dj_rice]

There was a news segment on CTV or Global that did this exact thing undercover pricing. But in their segment, dealerships would advertise an amazing car for a great price, and when you go in to inquire, suddenly its sold but they have this exact same model with a 3000kms more and more options that they can sell for same price etc etc.. and then a few weeks later, the same amazing car is in the newspaper again for same price. Bait and switch


But yes, ETCH is a scam. $399 for some stickers. They advertise if car gets stolen, they pay your deductible and $5000 to you. The chances of your car getting jacked are very slim. Do not opt for it. I work at a dealer and its a scam. Easy money for Finance Dept.

[Aleks]

I've been tossing around the idea of purchasing a truck because there is some nice mfr incentives going on right now. Browsing autotrader, I found a truck I like and the ad goes out of its way to advertise as ALL in+Gst and that they are a amvic dealer. Truck is listed as 39,065 which should work out to 41,018. I fire off a email inquiry(I only deal through email so there is record of correspondence) and they come back saying 44,405 of course with no breakdown. AMVIC website says they can only add licensing and financing fees and having bought lots of new vehicles finance fees are between 350-700$ and I will register it myself.

http://www.amvic.org/consumer/all-inpricingisthelaw/

Example of their adds.
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Chevrolet/Silverado+1500/Edmonton/Alberta/5_34197896_20160616133716332/?orup=85_15_1359

http://www.westgatechev.com/en/new/vehicle-inventory/chevrolet/silverado-1500/2017/?trim=LT&cid=568501

Whats beyonds thoughts? Am I missing something that they are can add on? dealership gonna dealership? Any point in making a complaint to amvic(I'm sure there legally covered because they follow it up with "All prices, specifications and availability subject to change without notice").? Its a chevy truck so its in no shape or form unique and there are literally 100s of others that meet my criteria from other dealers that I will take my business to as having worked in a dealership previously I really cant stand the unethical and shady business practices such as these but if they are going to pull this crap they should expect some bad press.

Most dealers don't like the email approach. Their model works on you coming in. Once you're in the door that's more than half the battle won for them. That's why you're not going to get good answers on email at majority of dealers.

Having bought many cars and helped friends and family I've run into all sorts of fees and tactics. To me it's fun to deal with it and negotiate. I know what I want to pay and if I can't get it I move on. There are a handful of dealers that are willing to do everything over email/text and have no hidden fees of items you don't want on each vehicle. Unfortunately I don't know anyone at any Chevy dealer but maybe someone else on here could give you a good contact to deal with.

[G-ZUS]

I've bought a couple used vehicles at dealerships. I would make my offer all-in. This is my out-the-door offer, factor your taxes, BS fees or whatever into this price but I am paying a penny more. Get a sales contract before paying.

[ndhal417]

There was a news segment on CTV or Global that did this exact thing undercover pricing. But in their segment, dealerships would advertise an amazing car for a great price, and when you go in to inquire, suddenly its sold but they have this exact same model with a 3000kms more and more options that they can sell for same price etc etc.. and then a few weeks later, the same amazing car is in the newspaper again for same price. Bait and switch



http://www.apa.ca/2017-apa-w5-investigation-calgary.asp

Most dealerships failed the test, shocked.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I've never paid more than the "all-in" price agreed on when buying a vehicle. If it's any more than what you agreed upon, just get up and walk out - magically, the price lowers to what you agreed upon. Some dealers are REALLY bad about this (like Honda West) others are a lot more reasonable and up front about everything. If you are clear about "all-in", and they still try to screw you, then fuck them go find a new salesman or a new dealership - they shouldn't get rewarded for tactics like that.

This is very common. You agree to a price, then when you go to sign, there are fees never discussed that they try to shrug off as above and beyond "all-in".

By agreeing to an all-in price, it still lets them attach whatever fees or BS administration add-ons they want for optics, but it comes out of their end.

Careful with the admin fees too, they like to disguise them as other things such as:
- Glass etching
- Key replacement
- Various 'protection' services

The last two cars I bought I also only dealt with dealers who would talk to me over email and not feed me the greasy "why don't you come down and see what we can do" sales lines. You're obviously going to shop it around, so if they think your time is worthless, they don't deserve the sale IMO. It was pretty bad actually, even direct referrals from beyond members led me to people who couldn't even be bothered to take 30 seconds and reply to an email.

What actually annoys me the most is the salespeople that AFTER they try and screw you over, they are all buddy-buddy again and think they still deserve the sale. Just remember that you have all the power if you haven't signed yet, and they are 100% commission based, so don't let them use any greasy tactics on you.

I know I complain a lot about them, but there are good dealerships and salespeople too - I have had some great experiences, but that isn't the norm in this city unfortunately. In fact both dealerships that have been the nicest to deal with (for me) were not in Calgary.

[rx7boi]

I would have to echo Mitsu's sentiments about an OTD price. It sucks that J-Hop ended up eating the extra $495 that wasn't agreed upon but if you feel like you won't find another similar vehicle, you could be taking a risk if neither party agrees to budge.

That's the one thing that I hate about dealerships is all the disguising of profit. Perhaps it's common business practice that profit margins remain hidden from consumers but it drives me nuts when they shrug off fees that are "mandatory." You gotta love the Autotrader ad descriptions that have that final disclaimer "final price is subject to a $400 administration fee." In the end, everything is up for negotiation which is where the OTD pricing tactic is helpful. Do the math yourself, no break down needed.

I bought my first car through email, negotiated an OTD that I was willing to pay and then drove up to Edmonton several days later to sign the paperwork. I'm lucky that when I got there the numbers didn't magically change considering I'll be out 6 hours of my time if they decided to change things at the last minute.

[TomcoPDR]

I've gotten otd prices before

[A790]

When I was buying '14 Lexus they added a $600 3M package I didn't ask for. I told them to either take it off the car, take it off the invoice, or stick to their guns and watch me walk.

They took it off the invoice.

[lasimmon]

I would have to echo Mitsu's sentiments about an OTD price. It sucks that J-Hop ended up eating the extra $495 that wasn't agreed upon but if you feel like you won't find another similar vehicle, you could be taking a risk if neither party agrees to budge.

That's the one thing that I hate about dealerships is all the disguising of profit. Perhaps it's common business practice that profit margins remain hidden from consumers but it drives me nuts when they shrug off fees that are "mandatory." You gotta love the Autotrader ad descriptions that have that final disclaimer "final price is subject to a $400 administration fee." In the end, everything is up for negotiation which is where the OTD pricing tactic is helpful. Do the math yourself, no break down needed.

I bought my first car through email, negotiated an OTD that I was willing to pay and then drove up to Edmonton several days later to sign the paperwork. I'm lucky that when I got there the numbers didn't magically change considering I'll be out 6 hours of my time if they decided to change things at the last minute.

I actually find it funny that people think dealers should inform you of their profit. I mean if you can figure it out other ways its fine, but to expect them to share it? What sort of business does that?

[Mitsu3000gt]

I actually find it funny that people think dealers should inform you of their profit. I mean if you can figure it out other ways its fine, but to expect them to share it? What sort of business does that?

Anyone can pay $30 to find out their profit, so if they can't offer me that extremely minor courtesy, why would I want to deal with them? It's not like it's a difficult or time consuming exercise that few people know how to do. And if they tell me to GFY when I ask, and I get a CCC report on my phone 2 minutes later, they will want to be your best friend again, still expecting the business - why should it be such a one-way street? I'm going to get it regardless, so if they make me pay for it purely out of spite, why on earth would I give someone like that my business? Just imagine how crappy post-purchase service is likely going to be like if that's their attitude.

I've had no trouble getting reputable dealers to show me their cost, negotiate a fair profit as seen by both sides, and be done with it. It also saves the dealership (and me) a lot of time because there is zero back & forth, and no "let me go ask my manager" dance for 2 hours, all while you get their "guaranteed lowest possible below-cost one time only special price" magically lowered 5 more times before signing. Then after ALL that you *still* don't know if you are getting ripped off or not because they have lied to you so many times already. It is an enormous waste of time for both parties.

[94boosted]

lol all dealerships add things like etch, doc fee, or some sort of in house package that's mandatory (floor mats, wheel locks, splash guards) etc. this is all on top of the usual freight, pdi, ac, amvic, tire tax etc.



:werd: assuming this thing is new (which it looks to be) $39K plus freight/pdi, doc fee, amvic, ac, tire tax & gst should put you around that 44K mark.

[rx7boi]

I actually find it funny that people think dealers should inform you of their profit. I mean if you can figure it out other ways its fine, but to expect them to share it? What sort of business does that?

Actually, my point isn't that dealerships should inform you of their profit margins but that they frequently use unsavoury tactics to create profit. Why do you think people despise fees/additions that are marked up or not asked for when they purchase a vehicle?

Of course there is consumer ignorance as some things do have an overhead cost but it's no secret that dealerships would charge you for the air you breathe and tell you it's mandatory.

Again, that's why OTD approach is simplest but you'd still need to do some math to figure out if the final price is a good deal.

[Aleks]

I think the Genesis brand is the only one right now that has an all in price. Just add GST.

[max_boost]

And it also depends if the vehicle is a hot seller or not lol because dealers are also PFY.

Pay it or leave it. haha

[SKR]

I was dealing on a new Olds Cutlass Ciera once, and we agreed on $19,500. Then the salesman tried to tack on Truecoat after the fact, telling me I'd have oxidation problems, despite the fact that we'd been over that before. He knocked $100 off the Truecoat, and I told him he was a fucking liar, but in the end I decided to get it over with and asked my wife where's my goddamn checkbook.

[ExtraSlow]

That's a fine automobile.

[Aleks]

I was dealing on a new Olds Cutlass Ciera once, and we agreed on $19,500. Then the salesman tried to tack on Truecoat after the fact, telling me I'd have oxidation problems, despite the fact that we'd been over that before. He knocked $100 off the Truecoat, and I told him he was a fucking liar, but in the end I decided to get it over with and asked my wife where's my goddamn checkbook.

Ya, but that Truecoat, you don't get it, you get oxidation problems, cost you heck of a more than $500.

[J-hop]

Ya, but that Truecoat, you don't get it, you get oxidation problems, cost you heck of a more than $500.

You're sitting there, you're talking in circles, you're talking like we didn't go over this already

[SKR]

These guys, here. These guys. It's always the same. It's always more.