Hot tub base/footing

[J-hop]

Looking to put in a 4-5 person hot tub in my backyard and wondering what my options are for bases. The spot I'd like to put it currently has nice patio bricks that seem pretty level and solid, I'd rather not pour a cement pad if possible so I'm looking for other options.

On kijiji western pool and spa advertises "spa pads". I'm not 100% sure what these are even made of but was thinking I could put these on top of the patio stones?

Are these a decent option or am I being stupid trying to avoid pouring a pad?

[NewLextasy]

Tamped Crushed gravel and concrete paving blocks is totally fine. Especially with a hot tub that size . A poured pad is overkill.

[roopi]

Skip the pad. Like NewLextasy said packed gravel and paving blocks. I've done it twice now and never had an issue.

[ercchry]

4x4 perimeter filled with gavel... that's what I did, took about an hour... it's been dead level for about 3 years now

It's also what paradise bay recommended

[Mitsu3000gt]

We used a home-made pallet out of 4X4 pressure treated wood for our 8 person tub which was also on patio bricks. Super easy to make, cheap, and worked perfectly for many years. No need to go nuts with concrete.

They look like this, or similar (you can configure the supports however you want):

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jJujE6VvyLQ/maxresdefault.jpg

[J-hop]

Thanks for the ideas everyone. Glad I'm not out to lunch thinking I can do this without pouring a pad

Mitsu, I'm definitely thinking something like that so I can put it over the patio stones. I'd like the option to move the tub with me when we buy a bigger house in the next 2-3 years and not have to do a bunch of reclaimation work.

Going to see this weekend how level the patio stones actually are

[Mitsu3000gt]

Thanks for the ideas everyone. Glad I'm not out to lunch thinking I can do this without pouring a pad

Mitsu, I'm definitely thinking something like that so I can put it over the patio stones. I'd like the option to move the tub with me when we buy a bigger house in the next 2-3 years and not have to do a bunch of reclaimation work.

Going to see this weekend how level the patio stones actually are

Yeah it works great for that. We sold our tub, and all we had to do was sweep up under the base, terminate the wiring and put it back under the bricks, and you would never know we had a hot tub there for ~10 years.

[GOnSHO]

fyi, hottubs require an electrical permit and a "building" permit..

Just jumped through hoops to get mine all done because I had AC installed and city inspector saw the hottub.

[bjstare]

+1 for the gravel+patio stones. Worked for me.

[J-hop]

fyi, hottubs require an electrical permit and a "building" permit..

Just jumped through hoops to get mine all done because I had AC installed and city inspector saw the hottub.

Good reminder as I am lucky enough to have two electrician neighbors and both have offered to wire it up for me for next to nothing so I'll have to get in the permitting side of things.



Edit: actually gonsho, what kind of things do they look for on the building side? Hard to know exact dimensions before I buy but I can probably get pretty close. Would like to get the permit looked at before I buy so I know im not going to run into any problems

[suntan]

If you have it on a deck (that is, a raised surface that has joists, footings, etc), that structure must be able to support the weight of the hot tub + water + people.

[J-hop]

If you have it on a deck (that is, a raised surface that has joists, footings, etc), that structure must be able to support the weight of the hot tub + water + people.

Yea that's what makes me want to put it on our patio bricks instead of our deck. I took at look at our neighbors and they had to reinforce the hell out of their deck. 4 people =6-800lbs, tub dry =600 (?) lbs 500 gallons = 4150 so yea looking at something that needs to support around 5500 pounds.

[GOnSHO]

Electrical side of things is the most annoying part..

- has to be 3M away from electrical meter
- has to be at least 5M from overhanging power lines (which i have)
- Proper wiring to spa buddy then to panel (with all proper bends)

The Inspector was even trying to tell me that my OUTDOOR INDECK lighting was not permitted, even though they are meant to be outside, waterproof and have their own safety fault block. Guy was an idiot, wasted so much of my time.


Building side,

If its on a deck, it has to be able to hold the weight of the tub, water and suggested people, if the inspector doesnt think it will, they will require an engineering report (your dime)... has to be over a certain distance AWAY from the property line (2M if i remember correctly)

Each permit is in the neighbourhood of $120-150/ea

[bjstare]

Electrical side of things is the most annoying part..

- has to be 3M away from electrical meter
- has to be at least 5M from overhanging power lines (which i have)
- Proper wiring to spa buddy then to panel (with all proper bends)

Building side, if its on a deck, it has to be able to hold the weight of the tub, water and suggested people, if the inspector doesnt think it will, they will require an engineering report (your dime)... has to be over a certain distance AWAY from the property line (2M if i remember correctly)

Each permit is in the neighbourhood of $120-150/ea

Putting it on the deck is often not worth it. My parents decided to, because my dad was very particular about the location, and they used a bunch of engineered steel underneath it. Obviously costly.

Also, when I put mine in, I just used it as an excuse to trench in the power to get rid of my o/h line. A little more costly, but greatly improved the aesthetics of the back yard. Dug the trench myself to save a few pennies.

[GOnSHO]

Putting it on the deck is often not worth it. My parents decided to, because my dad was very particular about the location, and they used a bunch of engineered steel underneath it. Obviously costly.

Also, when I put mine in, I just used it as an excuse to trench in the power to get rid of my o/h line. A little more costly, but greatly improved the aesthetics of the back yard. Dug the trench myself to save a few pennies.

I wouldve done that, but my back yard is about 4' above grade in the alley (i have a retaining wall), so it wouldve been digging 6-8' to trench it.

[J-hop]

Electrical side of things is the most annoying part..

- has to be 3M away from electrical meter
- has to be at least 5M from overhanging power lines (which i have)
- Proper wiring to spa buddy then to panel (with all proper bends)

The Inspector was even trying to tell me that my OUTDOOR INDECK lighting was not permitted, even though they are meant to be outside, waterproof and have their own safety fault block. Guy was an idiot, wasted so much of my time.


Building side,

If its on a deck, it has to be able to hold the weight of the tub, water and suggested people, if the inspector doesnt think it will, they will require an engineering report (your dime)... has to be over a certain distance AWAY from the property line (2M if i remember correctly)

Each permit is in the neighbourhood of $120-150/ea


Thanks, yea I'm lucky most of that will be ok, I'll have to measure from the property line as I think 2m would put it in a slightly less ideal spot, I was going to put it in line with my house which is just over a meter from the fence. I'll see if I can pull the application and check that before I get too mentally invested.

Here's hoping the previous owners did all of their additions to code. I could be opening a can of worms getting an inspector in haha

[GOnSHO]

Good luck man!

I opened can of worms..

Had to move my tub OFF my deck away from my meter and OH lines(was over 10 feet away).. so now i have it INDECK instead of ontop.. but not an ideal placement.

[Tik-Tok]

Also, when I put mine in, I just used it as an excuse to trench in the power to get rid of my o/h line. A little more costly, but greatly improved the aesthetics of the back yard. Dug the trench myself to save a few pennies.

What was the process for that, and how much did it cost? Ive been thinking of doing the same.

[bjstare]

What was the process for that, and how much did it cost? Ive been thinking of doing the same.

My family runs a home building company and one of their electrical contractors gave me a bit of a break on the price. I think I paid around $1k all in for rerouting from o/h to a sub panel they installed in my detached garage, wiring the spa buddy to that, and also wiring the main feed from the subpanel in the garage through the trench to the house. I'd expect it'd be more than that if I didn't get a break, but who knows. Sorry, but probably not much help to you haha.

[Tik-Tok]

So Enmax wasn't involved at all then? I thought maybe they would have to do it. You just had it all installed and set up and inspected, then coordinated with them for the swap at the very end?

[bjstare]

It was a few years back, so I don't remember everything 100%, but that sounds about right. There was super minimal involvement by enmax, I only recall letting the lady into my basement and she checked/put a new wire seal thing on the power meter. FWIW Endure is the company I used, I'm sure if you gave them a call they'd tell you whats up. Don't trust a shmuck like me with a bad memory. haha

[J-hop]

Electrical side of things is the most annoying part..

- has to be 3M away from electrical meter
- has to be at least 5M from overhanging power lines (which i have)
- Proper wiring to spa buddy then to panel (with all proper bends)

The Inspector was even trying to tell me that my OUTDOOR INDECK lighting was not permitted, even though they are meant to be outside, waterproof and have their own safety fault block. Guy was an idiot, wasted so much of my time.


Building side,

If its on a deck, it has to be able to hold the weight of the tub, water and suggested people, if the inspector doesnt think it will, they will require an engineering report (your dime)... has to be over a certain distance AWAY from the property line (2M if i remember correctly)

Each permit is in the neighbourhood of $120-150/ea

Luckily looks like it's 1.2m to the property line which puts it pretty much where I want it.

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Pages/Home-building-and-renovations/Swimming-pools.aspx

Edit: found the real property report from my purchase and looks like the house is 1.22m from the property so I can put it exactly where I want it


One thing it notes is if you put it on a Structure that elevates the floor above grade it requires engineer sign off. I'm guessing the 4x4 base would require engineering sign off?

[suntan]

Damn I'll see if I can find the electrician that did mine, he does a ton of them and he's well known and trusted by the city inspectors.

[GOnSHO]

Luckily looks like it's 1.2m to the property line which puts it pretty much where I want it.

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Pages/Home-building-and-renovations/Swimming-pools.aspx

Edit: found the real property report from my purchase and looks like the house is 1.22m from the property so I can put it exactly where I want it


One thing it notes is if you put it on a Structure that elevates the floor above grade it requires engineer sign off. I'm guessing the 4x4 base would require engineering sign off?

I wouldnt worry too much about that, if you are, dig out the 4-6" at the bottom and counter sink the 4x4 structure. They really are only worried about "decks" really.

- - - Updated - - -


It was a few years back, so I don't remember everything 100%, but that sounds about right. There was super minimal involvement by enmax, I only recall letting the lady into my basement and she checked/put a new wire seal thing on the power meter. FWIW Endure is the company I used, I'm sure if you gave them a call they'd tell you whats up. Don't trust a shmuck like me with a bad memory. haha

Enmax needs to come out and disconnect the mainline.. you do the work and then they have to come out again to reconnect and approve the move. something like almost 200/ea time they come out (~$400)...

[J-hop]

I wouldnt worry too much about that, if you are, dig out the 4-6" at the bottom and counter sink the 4x4 structure. They really are only worried about "decks" really.


Yea from the wording I get the same impression. I might call the city number just to be sure though!

Next thing on my list is to look at where to put the electrical line through, did you have to drill out the cement foundation to put a line through or did you find somewhere clever to run it?

[GOnSHO]

Yea from the wording I get the same impression. I might call the city number just to be sure though!

Next thing on my list is to look at where to put the electrical line through, did you have to drill out the cement foundation to put a line through or did you find somewhere clever to run it?

My electrician drilled a hole through the foundation, then filled with epoxy.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Electrical side of things is the most annoying part..

- has to be 3M away from electrical meter
- has to be at least 5M from overhanging power lines (which i have)
- Proper wiring to spa buddy then to panel (with all proper bends)

The Inspector was even trying to tell me that my OUTDOOR INDECK lighting was not permitted, even though they are meant to be outside, waterproof and have their own safety fault block. Guy was an idiot, wasted so much of my time.



My inspector was a real hardass on the 5m thing. Made me remove/block off a GFCI outdoor covered plug that was 3m away from the tub, and also made me put the outdoor light fixture on the side of my house (6 feet up the wall) on a GFCI breaker for some reason.

This is for a tub that had been in place for 15 years but got spotted while doing the inspection for my basement finishing work.

[GOnSHO]

My inspector was a real hardass on the 5m thing. Made me remove/block off a GFCI outdoor covered plug that was 3m away from the tub, and also made me put the outdoor light fixture on the side of my house (6 feet up the wall) on a GFCI breaker for some reason.

This is for a tub that had been in place for 15 years but got spotted while doing the inspection for my basement finishing work.

Yea, mine was a complete tool

[Tik-Tok]

My inspector was a real hardass on the 5m thing. Made me remove/block off a GFCI outdoor covered plug that was 3m away from the tub, and also made me put the outdoor light fixture on the side of my house (6 feet up the wall) on a GFCI breaker for some reason.

This is for a tub that had been in place for 15 years but got spotted while doing the inspection for my basement finishing work.

Unless you changed the hottub circuit breaker location in the panel, he had no right to force you to change it. My inspector told me as much. He pointed out what was wrong with the hot tub wiring (wrong brand of circuit breaker for the panel), but said he couldn't technically ding me on it as he was only there to certify the work within the scope of the permit, which was the kitchen.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Unless you changed the hottub circuit breaker location in the panel, he had no right to force you to change it. My inspector told me as much. He pointed out what was wrong with the hot tub wiring (wrong brand of circuit breaker for the panel), but said he couldn't technically ding me on it as he was only there to certify the work within the scope of the permit, which was the kitchen.

Nope, I didn't touch it. My inspector claimed that his inspection was in no way bound by the scope of the permit (which clearly defined only three rooms of the basement) and that he was completely at liberty to inspect anything and everything he felt like. When I mentioned that the CoC permit office had said that only the areas on the permit were being inspected, he claimed the permit office was generally incompetent and didn't understand his job. He made me add a previously-developed bedroom, the hot tub, and the detached garage to the electrical permit before he would sign off on anything, and mandated changes in all three areas. If I didn't agree to add them to the permit, he threatened to cut off power to my garage until such time as it was added to the permit.

To his credit, some of the changes he required did make sense, but others seemed pretty ridiculous and pointless.

[Tik-Tok]

Fuck, what a dick. I've had 3 electrical inspectors for 3 different permit and none of them were that big of assholes. I suspect he's just a power-tripper and most of what he said was bullshit.

[GOnSHO]

Nope, I didn't touch it. My inspector claimed that his inspection was in no way bound by the scope of the permit (which clearly defined only three rooms of the basement) and that he was completely at liberty to inspect anything and everything he felt like. When I mentioned that the CoC permit office had said that only the areas on the permit were being inspected, he claimed the permit office was generally incompetent and didn't understand his job. He made me add a previously-developed bedroom, the hot tub, and the detached garage to the electrical permit before he would sign off on anything, and mandated changes in all three areas. If I didn't agree to add them to the permit, he threatened to cut off power to my garage until such time as it was added to the permit.

To his credit, some of the changes he required did make sense, but others seemed pretty ridiculous and pointless.

Was he can old guy?? ive heard the older guys tend to be more of hardasses and BY THE BOOK type guys who have seen to much BS to be nice...

my electrical guy was old but seemed incompetent as fuck... my building inspector was badass, younger guy, tattooed, said fuck the engineering report, looks fine, just get railings and ill pass the deck/hottub.. cool thanks! HAHA

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Fuck, what a dick. I've had 3 electrical inspectors for 3 different permit and none of them were that big of assholes. I suspect he's just a power-tripper and most of what he said was bullshit.

Yeah, definitely seemed like a power trip. I assumed it was BS but I figured paying a few hundred bucks extra and changing some stuff was an easier path than trying to fight an inspector that could make my whole project hell - that happened to my folks with a plumbing inspector and I didn't want to deal with that level of horseshit.


Was he can old guy?? ive heard the older guys tend to be more of hardasses and BY THE BOOK type guys who have seen to much BS to be nice...


Yeah, older guy.

[J-hop]

Yea I'm just praying I don't get a dick inspector. Had to deal with a ton of BS with the basement and sorting out permits that the previous owner didn't. I'm just waiting to get dinged for something I've missed