Amazon looking to expand. $5B investment.

[rage2]

If Alberta wants to diversify and Calgary wants to be Silicon Valley North, they better be working on the Amazon RFP.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf

Roll out the red carpet, throw silly tax breaks, there's going to be 50k employees with 6 figure salaries. This is literally an opportunity to quickly cut the cord on Calgary and Alberta's reliance on the energy sector. They need 8m sqft of space? We have 11m sqft of vacancy downtown right fucking now haha.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-wants-new-amazon-headquarters-1.4279852

[adam c]

Vancouver doesn't make a lot of sense since Seattle is so close yet at the same time it would cut down on alot of travel, I don't see Halifax being a viable option so it's really down to Calgary vs Toronto

[civicHB]

I wonder if any non- US city has any actual hope in landing this.

[cyra1ax]

Calling it now, it won't be Calgary. Relatively too close to Seattle and Amazon will probably want something East coast.

[HiTempguy1]

Calling it now, it won't be Calgary. Relatively too close to Seattle and Amazon will probably want something East coast.

Skimming through the RFP, Calgary hits all the marks. Who gives a shit east or west coast, its a global business. Calgary is ranked as a pretty damn decent city, only real downside is the winter, but maybe that will attract a different type of employee than Seattle. It rains half the god damn year in Seattle anyways, so at least you can go snowboarding/snowmobiling in the winter months. Cost of living in Calgary is one of the lowest for metropolitan areas in Canada, and as far as I can tell ranks pretty good compared to a lot in the USA.

Fuck it, diversify up in this bitch. Do your pandering magic Nenshi!

[RealJimmyJames]

If the Seattle executives are tired of winter rains Calgary has a very sunny climate all winter.

[Disoblige]

I wonder if any non- US city has any actual hope in landing this.
This.

[rage2]

Cost of living in Calgary is one of the lowest for metropolitan areas in Canada, and as far as I can tell ranks pretty good compared to a lot in the USA.
Cost of living will go through the roof if this actually happens. Slumlords will have fuck you money. Gonna suck for renters haha.


I wonder if any non- US city has any actual hope in landing this.
Hard to say but I think we have a small advantage in that Bezos hates Trump. But Trump will do anything possible to punish Amazon for investing outside US, but as we've all seen, it's easier said than done, and would be short term until Trump is out of office.

[Manhattan]

Canadian city would be a dark horse pick. They announced it would be in NA and not just US because they had Canada on the radar. Amazon still has a relatively small presence in Canada so it would be a great way to break into the market.

Calgary has office space but I don't think old empty oil towers will appeal to the people they're trying to attract. Weather is too damn cold here. And the biggest obstacle would be the bad publicity and shaming they'd get for not giving those jobs to Americans.

My bet would be somewhere in Texas or Florida. Geographically diversified and tons of cheap land and no state taxes.

[ercchry]

Calling it now, it won't be Calgary. Relatively too close to Seattle and Amazon will probably want something East coast.

If it was a logistics hub... you might be onto something, but as a "head office" I would argue that close proximity would be a good thing for employee travel... for logistics, Winnipeg would be a great pick, cheap everything, and such a good hub even organized crime likes it for distribution




My bet would be somewhere in Texas or Florida. Geographically diversified and tons of cheap land and no state taxes.

I dunno... current events would say that would be a little costly in interruption of business :rofl:

[D'z Nutz]

Cost of living will go through the roof if this actually happens. Slumlords will have fuck you money. Gonna suck for renters haha.

That's the first thing that came to my mind too. I was in Seattle in July for the first time since 2010 and they were saying the price of real estate has skyrocketed in the last few years just cause of Google, Amazon, etc being in Seattle. Anyone who owned property there is laughing now.

[max_boost]

Lol a spike in real estate prices would send my folks into retirement nicely or just benefit the casinos.

[HiTempguy1]

Cost of living will go through the roof if this actually happens. Slumlords will have fuck you money. Gonna suck for renters haha.



I don't know about that, hasn't Calgary alone lost something like 60k office employees?

It's not like the 50k jobs are instant. It could be exactly what the province needs to put the tilting economy back on track.

I can also see the NDP working with Calgary to do something for the company. And clearly they are not against building the facilities they need. Could be a perfect opportunity to get funding to remediate that land they wanted to build the arena on. Get the provincial gov to chip in, Calgary chips in, BOOM, instant campus sized area to build a world class downtown facility on. In the meantime, easy to rent office space downtown while its under construction, can start up operations and getting people and resources moved before needing the facilities to be finished.

I dunno, I'm just spitballing, but van, toronto, montreal, ottawa, quebec city, ALL will be crazy expensive compared to Calgary. The maritimes are too back water (and having just shipped a pallet by freight and flown there a lot, are harder to get to and manage logistics than most realize, and the 3 hour time zone change sucks).

Sure, I'm probably biased, but I see very few downsides to Calgary besides 1) Winter and 2) The actual physical location may not be ideal for SOME reason I'm not aware of

[rage2]

I don't know about that, hasn't Calgary alone lost something like 60k office employees?
If Amazon does comes here, it'll take 10-15 years (as per their RFP) to hire 50k employees, but you're missing the big picture. The trickle down effect is that other tech companies would consider coming here, more startups would thrive here because of the advantages of having a strategic partner so close to home, as well as a wealth of tech talent coming here increasing the local talent pool, increasing much more than Amazon's 50k employees. These are all high skilled high paying jobs, spiking up household income, which in turn spikes up cost of living.

[Disoblige]

The transit system ALONE is enough for Amazon not to consider Calgary. Not trying to be pessimistic, but I can't see this happening compared to so many other choices in the States.

[Neil4Speed]

such a good hub even organized crime likes it for distribution


:rofl: I hope Winnipeg works that into the RFP.

[R-Audi]

Key point many are missing is that Amazon wants a campus like their Seattle office, not to be spread out among 5-10 buildings downtown. This does nothing for our DT issues, as they would most likely be out in Suburbia somewhere as they need a large plot of land to make this work. On top of that, any of the developers that own this land certainly arent giving it away to make the rent work... then add in the transit issues.. and close proximity to Seattle... Id say its an extreme long shot.

[jwslam]

close proximity to Seattle... Id say its an extreme long shot.
Am I the only one who finds this advantageous on the aspect of working office hours? If they go east coast, the only feasible times people would be able to conference call is limited to less than half the work day.

[Manhattan]

I hope cities resort to smear campaigns like during elections and trash each other lol. Personally I'm not that fond of Amazon - seems like an awfully stressful place to work but I can understand how it can revitalize a city with the new businesses and talent it would attract. Don't like shopping on Amazon either. :dunno:

[jwslam]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-wants-new-amazon-headquarters-1.4279852

Mayor Naheed Nenshi says Calgary has 'serious advantages' to race to host new Amazon headquarters

[dj_patm]

Calgary is probably the front runner out of Canadian cities? Only issue I can see is the proximity to Seattle but that could also be an advantage depending on what their priorities are.

We have a lot of Commercial vacancy outside of Downtown too. They could consolidate some of the larger suburban office spaces and build a quarry park like space.
With that many people they could build their own Amazon suburb and have it be green and walkable and urban and all that bullshit without homeless people pissing everywhere....

Also which transit system are you guys comparing Calgary to??? Outside of the major hubs that are going to be a lot more expensive than Calgary, you'll be hard pressed to find a more developed transit system in a city of a million and a half people.

That article really does make Calgary seem like a great choice.

[88CRX]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-wants-new-amazon-headquarters-1.4279852

Mayor Naheed Nenshi says Calgary has 'serious advantages' to race to host new Amazon headquarters

Dont fuck this up Nenshi.

Would be huge for the City!

[D'z Nutz]

[Every] Mayor says [their city] has 'serious advantages' to race to host new Amazon headquarters

FTFY.

Time for Nenshi to do some major dick sucking.

After that, I hope he puts in some serious effort to kiss some Amazon ass :rofl:


With that many people they could build their own Amazon suburb and have it be green and walkable and urban and all that bullshit without homeless people pissing everywhere....

https://media.giphy.com/media/XcFf9XhE5ALXa/giphy.gif

[mr2mike]

DE-TROIT. Cheapest option to get Eastern. Just concrete structure, no windows and razor wire fence.

[revelations]

From a quick look at the RFP, a Malzac sized campus with office buildings (think another Quarry Park) and warehouses - would be perfectly suitable for an area just outside Stoney Trail NE or SE.

- close to the Airport
- have (almost) unlimited space (buy outs)
- close to existing major corridors
- easy for new bus routes, hell perhaps even a new LRT !
- great renewable energy potential (wind and solar)
- tons of potential IT or CompSci staff
- good educational system that would acclamate new pupils for required courses

I think this has a realistic chance of happening.

[suntan]

IT people in Calgary are terrible. Getting 100 good local people is going to be tough. Solium can't do it, neither will Amazon. So just new people to Calgary.

Not sure Nenshi's attitude is actually going to help. He doesn't really know how to sell, he has the resilience of a wet Dollarama paper towel. Hopefully he just shuts the hell up and doesn't try anything stupid like talk to a decision maker at Amazon.

[dj_patm]

IT people in Calgary are terrible. Getting 100 good local people is going to be tough. Solium can't do it, neither will Amazon. So just new people to Calgary.

Not sure Nenshi's attitude is actually going to help. He doesn't really know how to sell, he has the resilience of a wet Dollarama paper towel. Hopefully he just shuts the hell up and doesn't try anything stupid like talk to a decision maker at Amazon.

lol probably the most educated, charismatic mayor Calgary has had, who has made news around the world for his public persona. I seriously doubt there is a better mayor to pitch a liberal, youthful, diverse tech company....

I really wish Rob Ford was still around to run Toronto's bid into the ground though...

[JustinL]

Having a strong AI faculty and DeepMind up here in Edmonton is probably a helpful thing for Calgary's bid. Amazon's future plays continue to move towards artificial intelligence tech.

[phreezee]

IT people in Calgary are terrible. Getting 100 good local people is going to be tough. Solium can't do it, neither will Amazon. So just new people to Calgary.

Not sure Nenshi's attitude is actually going to help. He doesn't really know how to sell, he has the resilience of a wet Dollarama paper towel. Hopefully he just shuts the hell up and doesn't try anything stupid like talk to a decision maker at Amazon.

Haha, Solium is shit java shop, might as well ship in a bunch of Indians with their masters degrees... just drop by any number of call centers.

[suntan]

Haha, Solium is shit java shop, might as well ship in a bunch of Indians with their masters degrees... just drop by any number of call centers.

Think about that... If they're shit, how's the rest of Calgary's IT employees?

I am probably the best systems engineer I've met in Calgary. Do you know how horrible that is?

[suntan]

lol probably the most educated, charismatic mayor Calgary has had, who has made news around the world for his public persona. I seriously doubt there is a better mayor to pitch a liberal, youthful, diverse tech company....

I really wish Rob Ford was still around to run Toronto's bid into the ground though...

LOL, you've never dealt with him. The moment someone questions him on a topic he gets really, really angry, condescending and defensive. He's a fucking blowhard.

The dipshit's been trying FOR YEARS to attract new businesses here, and the ONE TECHNOLOGY COMPANY that decided to set up shop here was someone that already had connections to the city. Yippee!

[phreezee]

Think about that... If they're shit, how's the rest of Calgary's IT employees?

I am probably the best systems engineer I've met in Calgary. Do you know how horrible that is?


Haha. There are plenty of good IT people in Calgary, just your example of Solium is poor. The good ones just don't want to work at places like Smart or Solium.

What I will agree is that every place has their 2-3 people who could run the whole department.

[HiTempguy1]

The transit system ALONE is enough for Amazon not to consider Calgary. Not trying to be pessimistic, but I can't see this happening compared to so many other choices in the States.

Er, Calgary is considered to have one of the best LRT systems in North America, with some of the highest ridership per capita. I thought people knew that?

That doesn't mean it doesn't suck, it just means its better than a LOT of others. And with this kind of cash, money could be allocated towards LRT improvements if the province and city got on board


If Amazon does comes here, it'll take 10-15 years (as per their RFP) to hire 50k employees, but you're missing the big picture. The trickle down effect is that other tech companies would consider coming here, more startups would thrive here because of the advantages of having a strategic partner so close to home, as well as a wealth of tech talent coming here increasing the local talent pool, increasing much more than Amazon's 50k employees. These are all high skilled high paying jobs, spiking up household income, which in turn spikes up cost of living.

I think I do see the big picture. I think you are missing the fact this already happened with O&G. Those 60k job lost all were high paying O&G and related jobs. Jobs that paid even more than the highly paid tech industry gets. So my viewpoint is that this would cushion the blow of those lost jobs, in a practical way that ramped up versus oil booming to $150/barrel and everybody and their mother moving here for $150k+/year. On top of it, it would diversify the economy as you have pointed out.

There are very few downsides to this, and it should not have a drastic effect on COL as it was already being pushed up by the astounding O&G salaries being paid here. Overall, it would be an amazing way for the Alberta economy to recover as we only have 4mil people in the province. For once, I am fully in support of the province and city doing WHATEVER is necessary to get this opportunity.

Edit-
Here is another twist, does Amazon have massive cash piles outside the USA so they don't get taxed? Could use those funds in Canada. Additionally, they basically would be getting a 25% discount on everything due to the exchange rate.

[rage2]

Key point many are missing is that Amazon wants a campus like their Seattle office, not to be spread out among 5-10 buildings downtown. This does nothing for our DT issues, as they would most likely be out in Suburbia somewhere as they need a large plot of land to make this work. On top of that, any of the developers that own this land certainly arent giving it away to make the rent work... then add in the transit issues.. and close proximity to Seattle... Id say its an extreme long shot.
Amazon campus consists of multiple buildings in downtown Seattle. They are anti suburb and prefer their employees to walk/bike/transit to work from downtown and surrounding "inner city" communities. With such a long timeline (10-15 years) it would not be difficult to relocate tenants and repurpose/rebuild in the downtown core. With the +15 system, they could even spread buildings out further and still maintain connectivity.

One of the major selling points that everyone will miss is network connectivity. Calgary is a major Internet backbone hub acting as a bridge to both coasts, and as such our downtown is designed with a ridiculous amount of fiber infrastructure. Cell coverage is another one, again, with how dense our downtown becomes during workday during the O&G peak, we have very dense cell coverage here that can sustain their 15 year growth today.

[mr2mike]

Calgary's future is pot greenhouses. Not a future Amazon center. Case closed.

[suntan]

Haha. There are plenty of good IT people in Calgary, just your example of Solium is poor. The good ones just don't want to work at places like Smart or Solium.

What I will agree is that every place has their 2-3 people who could run the whole department.

Didn't I just say it's going to be hard for Amazon to get even 100 good people? If you're saying there's 2-3 good people, so maybe 3% of people who work in IT in Calgary aren't complete fucking idiots?

[adamc]

Toronto can make an excellent case for being the perfect fit for Amazon. As much as I would love to see Calgary pulled back from the brink with a deal like this, it seems very unlikely.

Everything I've read is that amazon is trying to move away from the campus model, in Seattle they're deeply integrated into the downtown core, and as such have managed to help revive a huge swath of the inner city there. Giant suburban campuses are isolating and require too much in terms of transportation infrastructure.

Toronto is almost tailor made for this RFP:

- massive portlands area right inside the downtown core that is waiting to be developed, complete with a building already meeting the 1mm sq. ft phase 1 requirements
- transit to that area already in place or in the planning stages
- two airports less than 45 minutes with daily flights to cities required in the RFP (city centre airport for flights to NYC & DC, Pearson 30 minutes with daily flights all over the world)
- massive university system in the area, several with renowned STEM programming
- highly educated labour pool
- already home to countless multinational companies & head offices
- fibre infrastructure already in place
- low corporate taxes
- simplified visa system compared to the U.S. for engineering & other professionals
- excellent connections via ground (highway systems to the U.S.)
- housing in place (cityplace) with a gazillion more condos and other developments planned
- most importantly for a young monied labour force, simply outstanding food/drink/nightlife/cultural opportunities

Also personally I think Toronto is the ideal place to build to begin erasing the borders between North American commerce. Would help bridge the U.S. and Canada perfectly IMHO.

[sexualbanana]

I wonder if any non- US city has any actual hope in landing this.

I thought the RFP called for non-US cities anyways? At least, that was my impression. From my limited knowledge, Calgary seems like the best choice.

[sabad66]

Didn't I just say it's going to be hard for Amazon to get even 100 good people? If you're saying there's 2-3 good people, so maybe 3% of people who work in IT in Calgary aren't complete fucking idiots?

i'd say you're really underestimating the talent available in Calgary. You probably have your examples of shitty IT people but there are just as many examples of good people.

I could also see a lot of Chem/Mech/Automation/Electrical engineers who are currently laid off/looking for new careers that could easily transition into systems/software engineering.

[dj_patm]

Toronto can make an excellent case for being the perfect fit for Amazon. As much as I would love to see Calgary pulled back from the brink with a deal like this, it seems very unlikely.

Everything I've read is that amazon is trying to move away from the campus model, in Seattle they're deeply integrated into the downtown core, and as such have managed to help revive a huge swath of the inner city there. Giant suburban campuses are isolating and require too much in terms of transportation infrastructure.

Toronto is almost tailor made for this RFP:

- massive portlands area right inside the downtown core that is waiting to be developed, complete with a building already meeting the 1mm sq. ft phase 1 requirements
- transit to that area already in place or in the planning stages
- two airports less than 45 minutes with daily flights to cities required in the RFP (city centre airport for flights to NYC & DC, Pearson 30 minutes with daily flights all over the world)
- massive university system in the area, several with renowned STEM programming
- highly educated labour pool
- already home to countless multinational companies & head offices
- fibre infrastructure already in place
- low corporate taxes
- simplified visa system compared to the U.S. for engineering & other professionals
- excellent connections via ground (highway systems to the U.S.)
- housing in place (cityplace) with a gazillion more condos and other developments planned
- most importantly for a young monied labour force, simply outstanding food/drink/nightlife/cultural opportunities

Also personally I think Toronto is the ideal place to build to begin erasing the borders between North American commerce. Would help bridge the U.S. and Canada perfectly IMHO.

Giant suburban complexes is exactly what they all build though? If they said that then that goes against all of the others which is interesting. Toronto is obviously the leading candidate from Canada if money is no object, I just don't see what the point of opening the bid to smaller cities if that was the case. Obviously no small city will be able to compete.

[tonytiger55]

If Amazon does comes here, it'll take 10-15 years (as per their RFP) to hire 50k employees, but you're missing the big picture. The trickle down effect is that other tech companies would consider coming here, more startups would thrive here because of the advantages of having a strategic partner so close to home, as well as a wealth of tech talent coming here increasing the local talent pool, increasing much more than Amazon's 50k employees. These are all high skilled high paying jobs, spiking up household income, which in turn spikes up cost of living.

Im not sure others would move.
I was talking to one of the Directors of Smart a few years back. He said the biggest problems they have is finding actual talent.

[HiTempguy1]

Toronto is obviously the leading candidate from Canada if money is no object

This is business. No matter how Amazon wraps it all up, money IS the object.


Im not sure others would move.
I was talking to one of the Directors of Smart a few years back. He said the biggest problems they have is finding actual talent.

Crazy. Goes to show what easy money does to the workforce I guess?

[hampstor]

The investment, focus, and attention I have been seeing in the last year from technology companies in the AI/machine learning/IoT space to partner with the energy industry is quite impressive...

It would be in the city's interests to consider a bid that leverages that unique opportunity that Calgary offers in being a major North American hub for an industry that Amazon and their competitors are fiercely competing over.

[Neil4Speed]

Haha, Solium is shit java shop, might as well ship in a bunch of Indians with their masters degrees... just drop by any number of call centers.

Their product is very well regarded in the Equity compensation world so I find that surprising.

[phreezee]

Their product is very well regarded in the Equity compensation world so I find that surprising.

I know a manager there who's team is bunch of junior java developers. If you have anything in Solium, I'd recommend to sell to cover and opt to receive a certificate and deposit into TFSA.

- - - Updated - - -



I was talking to one of the Directors of Smart a few years back. He said the biggest problems they have is finding actual talent.

That's because they are out of touch with the Calgary market and pay shit. In IT circles it was widely considered as a "sweat shop."

[kertejud2]

Calgary's future is pot greenhouses. Not a future Amazon center. Case closed.

Why not both?

Agri-business and high-tech coming together.

[Xtrema]

Im not sure others would move.
I was talking to one of the Directors of Smart a few years back. He said the biggest problems they have is finding actual talent.

You would think they will hire Calgarians?

They will probably look at immigration policies and do imports from Asia. Something tough to do in Trump's America. Housing is cheaper than Vancouver so salary will be relatively low. The only problem is the risk of energy sector coming back to life, then we become too expensive.

Starting wage for tech sector in Seattle and Silicon Valley is $150-$200US. You can almost do 2:1 in Calgary in term of staff cost alone and not have to worry about housing cost like Vancouver and Toronto.

But let's be serious here, Canada will not be as competitive to the states. Texas can probably promise $1B in tax or land subsidies to have them set up in Austin.


That's because they are out of touch with the Calgary market and pay shit. In IT circles it was widely considered as a "sweat shop."

Amazon will also be a sweat shop. It's hard for Smart to find talent is because we got not much to start with and they would rather go digging holes for $200K than writing code for $100K.

[Tik-Tok]

Why not both?

Agri-business and high-tech coming together.

Exactly. As soon as it's legal (for recreational purposes), who do you think the #1 contender for online distribution is going to be?

[KPHMPH]

Maybe this has something to do with the new 2 hour delivery within Calgary and area....

[dj_patm]

I think people might be looking at this from way too much of a tech angle.

Is Amazon mainly competing with tech companies or the Big Box grocery chains?

Obviously tech is a part of it, but they'll need the entire gauntlet of supply chain people, merchandising people for whole foods, marketing folk and all of the other back office staff besides the people who run their website and apps.

[rage2]

I think people might be looking at this from way too much of a tech angle.

Is Amazon mainly competing with tech companies or the Big Box grocery chains?

Obviously tech is a part of it, but they'll need the entire gauntlet of supply chain people, merchandising people for whole foods, marketing folk and all of the other back office staff besides the people who run their website and apps.
You do realize that Amazon's business isn't any of what you've listed, but automation to remove humans from roles within everything you've listed? If you think they bought Whole Foods because they want to be in the grocery business, you missed the point entirely haha. They're not hiring 50k+ people at 100k+ average salaries for supply chain management.

Humans are inefficient. Amazon removes the human element wherever possible to streamline processes to the point where no amount of humans can be that efficient, from cashiers, to logistics, to purchasers when it comes to retail.

[dj_patm]

You do realize that Amazon's business isn't any of what you've listed, but automation to remove humans from roles within everything you've listed? If you think they bought Whole Foods because they want to be in the grocery business, you missed the point entirely haha. They're not hiring 50k+ people at 100k+ average salaries for supply chain management.

Their main business is selling physical merchandise. That means there is support staff in negotiating, purchasing, planning, marketing, (corporate) development and everything that comes with dealing with thousands of vendors.

This isn't FB, Google or Snapchat. That's what I'm saying.

Obviously tech innovation is a huge part of their business but they're still buying (or carrying) goods to sell to a customer and all of the support that comes with it.

But in the end you never know with these companies I guess. I just doubt they're hiring even 40,000 tech people for this office.

[adamc]

Alberta doesn't have a chance of landing this deal, but I like the chutzpah, and this should motivate government to do everything possible to turn Calgary into a high tech hub. Other silicon valley companies are looking at Canada, and they should definitely be courted in Alberta.

[Prelude_dude]

Their main business is selling physical merchandise. That means there is support staff in negotiating, purchasing, planning, marketing, (corporate) development and everything that comes with dealing with thousands of vendors.

This isn't FB, Google or Snapchat. That's what I'm saying.

Obviously tech innovation is a huge part of their business but they're still buying (or carrying) goods to sell to a customer and all of the support that comes with it.

But in the end you never know with these companies I guess. I just doubt they're hiring even 40,000 tech people for this office.

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazons-cloud-business-hits-over-12-billion-in-revenue-2017-2

Merchandise portion of amazon is peanuts compared to their Amazon Web Service division.

79924

[ercchry]

Im not sure others would move.
I was talking to one of the Directors of Smart a few years back. He said the biggest problems they have is finding actual talent.

Nothing to do with talent pool, all to do with toxic work environment and shit pay... know a few people that gave it a go, no one lasted long. Crazy turnover there

[dj_patm]

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazons-cloud-business-hits-over-12-billion-in-revenue-2017-2

Merchandise portion of amazon is peanuts compared to their Amazon Web Service division.

79924

I stand corrected

[kenny]

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazons-cloud-business-hits-over-12-billion-in-revenue-2017-2

Merchandise portion of amazon is peanuts compared to their Amazon Web Service division.

79924

I wouldn't call it peanuts, retail is their biggest revenue source, probably 10x their AWS revenue. Margin on retail side is probably shit though.

[rage2]

Their main business is selling physical merchandise. That means there is support staff in negotiating, purchasing, planning, marketing, (corporate) development and everything that comes with dealing with thousands of vendors.

This isn't FB, Google or Snapchat. That's what I'm saying.

Obviously tech innovation is a huge part of their business but they're still buying (or carrying) goods to sell to a customer and all of the support that comes with it.

But in the end you never know with these companies I guess. I just doubt they're hiring even 40,000 tech people for this office.
You're correct that Amazon does have purchasers, supply chain managers, etc. but what I'm saying is that those numbers pales in comparison to the tech jobs. The automation has streamlined the process so much that 1 supply chain manager at Amazon can handle 10x the work of a traditional supply chain manager at a traditional brick and mortar company because of the automation in place at Amazon. The large # of jobs at Amazon are with data, analytics, and automation to make traditional roles redundant or super efficient.

But if we're talking semantics and optics, sure, Amazon brings in a majority of their revenue from e-commerce. That's a business that's pretty much break even in the last year and a half with a <1% profit margin. What it has done though is help Amazon create infrastructure to run this business, and allow other's to leverage this infrastructure to run their businesses, spun off into AWS years ago. AWS now hosts over 1/3 of internet e-commerce, and an even more ridiculous 70% of NA internet traffic with a 25% profit margin. Nearly all of Amazon's profits are from AWS, which gets reinvested into expansion, such as Whole Foods.

The best comparison I can think of is McDonalds, where it looks like they're a fast food company, but in reality they're a real estate company.

[rage2]

I wouldn't call it peanuts, retail is their biggest revenue source, probably 10x their AWS revenue. Margin on retail side is probably shit though.

2016:

https://revenuesandprofits.com/amazon-revenues-profits-analysis-2017-update/

79926

Retail (International + NA) has a <1% combined profit margin. AWS generates 26% profit margin.

By revenue, AWS is a mere 9%, retail is 91%, but that 91% also includes sales that aren't directly Amazon.

By profit, 75% is AWS, 25% is retail.

AWS is pretty much driving all of Amazon's growth with it's measly 9% revenue.

Stepping back from just financials, the retail side generates a ridiculous amount of data for Amazon that you can't put a price tag on. It's not about profits in that market. That data is what allows Amazon to get rid of humans through automation.

[adamc]

The best comparison I can think of is McDonalds, where it looks like they're a fast food company, but in reality they're a real estate company.


Somebody watched "The Founder"

Great movie btw.

[rage2]

Somebody watched "The Founder"

Great movie btw.
Nah, I've read Ray Kroc's book, and knew about it long ago.

[tonytiger55]

You would think they will hire Calgarians?

They will probably look at immigration policies and do imports from Asia. Something tough to do in Trump's America. Housing is cheaper than Vancouver so salary will be relatively low. The only problem is the risk of energy sector coming back to life, then we become too expensive.

Starting wage for tech sector in Seattle and Silicon Valley is $150-$200US. You can almost do 2:1 in Calgary in term of staff cost alone and not have to worry about housing cost like Vancouver and Toronto.

But let's be serious here, Canada will not be as competitive to the states. Texas can probably promise $1B in tax or land subsidies to have them set up in Austin.



Amazon will also be a sweat shop. It's hard for Smart to find talent is because we got not much to start with and they would rather go digging holes for $200K than writing code for $100K.




I know a manager there who's team is bunch of junior java developers. If you have anything in Solium, I'd recommend to sell to cover and opt to receive a certificate and deposit into TFSA.

- - - Updated - - -

That's because they are out of touch with the Calgary market and pay shit. In IT circles it was widely considered as a "sweat shop."

It probably was (Smart=Sweatshop), and I don't think was was clear in my post.
The Director is from the UK like myself. It was a snip bit of a much indepth conversation wider than SMART itself.
Writing code and talent are two separate things. The issue was talent pool. Go to Silicon valley and you have a big range of talent. Here its not so much, so harder to innovate, it not to say there is no talent, there definitely is. So you have to create the foundation that will attract talent. But yes salary is a factor. Also the population of Calgary is low, like really low. I hear 1 million is a lot, but break that up into the demo graphics of old people, bro dogs, wohoo girls etc. Its not a big population density over a large area of land.

Some of the talented IT people I have met actually left Calgary/north America to London and Asia. That was a interesting insight.

Calgary does have some positives, housing is one, close proximity to the mountains, hardly any traiffc (Deerfoot is like a clear Auto bahn compared to the M25 and north Circular in London)one of the best tasting water in the world (DO NOT JUDGE TILL YOU TASTE LONDON TAP WATER), its one of the reasons why I moved here. But I think the city planning needs to change the way it designs commercial districts. They are waay out of touch.

But Since Amazon are in the Grocery Business now. Calgary is a pretty good gateway to supply the north and Prairies east. The big issue here is transport costs. The population density is really low and may not be worthwhile.

I don't see them coming here unfortunately.

[adamc]

Nah, I've read Ray Kroc's book, and knew about it long ago.

79927

well la dee dah, look at this guy, reads books

[rage2]

Some of the talented IT people I have met actually left Calgary/north America to London and Asia. That was a interesting insight.
It was impossible to compete with O&G for tech talent in Calgary, until now. We've had so many talented people come through our doors, only to take a bigger offer with O&G. It made tech really tough to hire for in Calgary, so I can see why SMART struggled. It's not that there aren't talented techies in Calgary, it's that they chased money, either with easy work at O&G, or elsewhere.

[rage2]

well la dee dah, look at this guy, reads books
Just autobiographies haha. Gotta learn from successful people. :D

[Tik-Tok]

I was just thinking, you know what a guaranteed way for Amazon to scratch Calgary off the list? Bill 203.

[kertejud2]

Nah, I've read Ray Kroc's book, and knew about it long ago.

Did you do your part to woo Amazon here by at least reading it on a Kindle?

[rage2]

Did you do your part to woo Amazon here by at least reading it on a Kindle?
Sorta, Kindle app on iPad. :thumbsup:

Honestly, even if we are a good fit, there is no way we can beat the US when it comes to handouts to businesses. To get Amazon here, the incentives would make the CalgaryNEXT proposal and "city money to businesses" look like a rounding error lol.

[Buster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

[mrsingh]

As awesome as this would be for the city, they are doing the right thing bidding for it, does anyone actually believe this will happen? As others have mentioned, will the local and provincial government be willing to deal with the political fallout with giving private companies handouts? Additionally with it being a headquarters, are their executives going to even want to travel back and forth to Canada as required along with some likely having to relocate? I do see the attraction for the visa rules bringing in tech workers from overseas compared to all that is happening with the political climate down in the US.

Either way, it is a massive longshot. :dunno:

[kertejud2]

As awesome as this would be for the city, they are doing the right thing bidding for it, does anyone actually believe this will happen?

I'd say we are probably definitely maybe at least the second best Canadian option for it.

So that's something.

[dj_patm]

I dont think there would be any significant political fallout from chasing the best shot of a lifeline Calgary could ever get.

[rage2]

I dont think there would be any significant political fallout from chasing the best shot of a lifeline Calgary could ever get.
75% of Alberta disagrees haha. Regardless, even if we give all we can provincially, hard to say if federal will follow suit, at least from a taxation standpoint.

[dj_rice]

Edmonton's throwing their bid in as well

[HiTempguy1]

75% of Alberta disagrees haha. Regardless, even if we give all we can provincially, hard to say if federal will follow suit, at least from a taxation standpoint.

What? I don't understand, are you referencing the flames arena? Cause that is bullshit and wont bring 50,000 jobs to the city or $5bil in investment.

[kertejud2]

75% of Alberta disagrees haha. Regardless, even if we give all we can provincially, hard to say if federal will follow suit, at least from a taxation standpoint.

Just make the Olympic Village and Media Centre convertible to 8M square feet of space. Fits right on with the timeline and it's finding valuable use for bloated Olympic infrastructure. It's perfect.

The 19,000 arena seats can be 'open-concept work stations' during business hours while all the luxury suites can be flex rooms.

[rage2]

What? I don't understand, are you referencing the flames arena? Cause that is bullshit and wont bring 50,000 jobs to the city or $5bil in investment.
No, I mean Calgary is only 25% of Alberta.

[HiTempguy1]

No, I mean Calgary is only 25% of Alberta.

Man, I'm in Edmonton and I can get behind Calgary getting this. You guys got shitkicked way worse than we did. Ndp is already supporting Edmonton lol.

[mrsingh]

75% of Alberta disagrees haha. Regardless, even if we give all we can provincially, hard to say if federal will follow suit, at least from a taxation standpoint.

Justin Trudeau has talked quite a bit about attracting tech companies to Canada, here is a chance for him to put his money where his mouth is. :rolleyes:

I work in O&G and have stayed employed thankfully - but had to take a role at site to do it. I would fully support whatever incentives it takes to bring this to the city, we as a city and province need to diversify.

CNBC (obviously US biased) ran a couple articles ranking and narrowing the cities down. In the end in one of the articles they chose Denver as the best bet.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/07/here-are-the-cities-that-match-amazons-wish-list-for-its-second-headquarters.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/09/dear-amazon-we-picked-your-second-headquarters-for-you.html

I still just don't see us being all that competitive that is all, I honestly hope I am proved wrong here.

[Tik-Tok]

Justin Trudeau has talked quite a bit about attracting tech companies to Canada, here is a chance for him to put his money where his mouth is. :rolleyes:


When he says Canada, he means Quebec and Ontario, where his voters are.

[rage2]

Justin Trudeau has talked quite a bit about attracting tech companies to Canada, here is a chance for him to put his money where his mouth is. :rolleyes:
Yea, because all this taxing the rich shit is the way to attract investment into Canada that's promising high paying jobs. Guess why Amazon isn't expanding in Seattle anymore?

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-council-to-vote-today-on-income-tax-on-the-wealthy/

[civicHB]

Yea, because all this taxing the rich shit is the way to attract investment into Canada that's promising high paying jobs. Guess why Amazon isn't expanding in Seattle anymore?

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-council-to-vote-today-on-income-tax-on-the-wealthy/


In 2015, Washington households with incomes below $21,000 paid 16.8 percent of their income in state and local taxes, on average, while households with income above $500,000 paid only 2.4 percent, according to the organization.

Crazy!

[HiTempguy1]

In 2015, Washington households with incomes below $21,000 paid 16.8 percent of their income in state and local taxes, on average, while households with income above $500,000 paid only 2.4 percent, according to the organization.

Crazy!

Ratios can make anything look lopsided. Fact is, those households with incomes below $21k were a net drain on societies resources, while the households with income above $500k were a net benefit.

[sexualbanana]

Ratios can make anything look lopsided. Fact is, those households with incomes below $21k were a net drain on societies resources, while the households with income above $500k were a net benefit.

Isn't that kind of the point? The taxes collected from the average to affluent work to provide the safety net to those who make less?

[rage2]

In 2015, Washington households with incomes below $21,000 paid 16.8 percent of their income in state and local taxes, on average, while households with income above $500,000 paid only 2.4 percent, according to the organization.

Crazy!
This is because Washington State has no income tax, it relies on a consumption/sales tax for revenue. Incomes below $21k (which includes students) gets into debt and spends more than they earn with the 16.8% working out to roughly $30k of spending. On the top end, that 2.4 taxes paid works out to $150k of spending. This is why consumption taxes doesn't work. The rich doesn't spend as much money in proportion to the poor. But it's incentives like this that attracted Amazon's Seattle investment in the first place.

[thetransporter]

its a North American idea not just Canada, could you imagine the what would happen to Calgary?
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/technology/amazon-cities/index.html

no mention of Calgary. no surprise

[sexualbanana]

This is because Washington State has no income tax, it relies on a consumption/sales tax for revenue. Incomes below $21k (which includes students) gets into debt and spends more than they earn with the 16.8% working out to roughly $30k of spending. On the top end, that 2.4 taxes paid works out to $150k of spending. This is why consumption taxes doesn't work. The rich doesn't spend as much money in proportion to the poor. But it's incentives like this that attracted Amazon's Seattle investment in the first place.

Yeah. Studies have shown that regressive taxes (like sales taxes) don't work because the poor basically end up paying more relative to what higher earners do.

[Buster]

Isn't that kind of the point? The taxes collected from the average to affluent work to provide the safety net to those who make less?

A safety net is different than an ongoing subsidy.

[dezmarez]

CNBC says execs want Boston...

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/amazon-execs-want-second-hq-in-boston-says-report.html

[suntan]

That's because they are out of touch with the Calgary market and pay shit. In IT circles it was widely considered as a "sweat shop."Whatever you do, don't type "Amazon IT sweat shop" into Google.

[ExtraSlow]

The new york times used the stated criteria to choose a winning city. interesting read.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/09/upshot/where-should-amazon-new-headquarters-be.html

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

The new york times used the stated criteria to choose a winning city. interesting read.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/09/upshot/where-should-amazon-new-headquarters-be.html

They also state at the beginning that they excluded Canada due to lack of data. That being said, I can't see any Canadian city really competing based on those requirements, within the article itself.

[Manhattan]

The new york times used the stated criteria to choose a winning city. interesting read.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/09/upshot/where-should-amazon-new-headquarters-be.html

Denver is basically the American version of Calgary with slightly better weather and all 4 major sports teams. They're also in the middle of the country so its a quick flight anywhere in the USA. I remember when all the TV infomercials all shipped out of Pueblo Colorado just because it was in the middle of the country and shipping was cheap.

[Xtrema]

The new york times used the stated criteria to choose a winning city. interesting read.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/09/upshot/where-should-amazon-new-headquarters-be.html


So Denver it is. The city’s lifestyle and affordability, coupled with the supply of tech talent from nearby universities, has already helped build a thriving start-up scene in Denver and Boulder, 40 minutes away. Big tech companies, including Google, Twitter, Oracle and I.B.M., have offices in the two cities. Denver has been attracting college graduates at an even faster rate than the largest cities. The region has the benefits of places like San Francisco and Seattle — outdoor recreation, microbreweries, diversity and a culture of inclusion (specifically cited by Amazon) — but the cost of living is still low enough to make it affordable, and lots of big-city refugees have been moving there for this reason. Amazon would be smart to follow them.

Sounds almost like Calgary.

[RealJimmyJames]

Denver, like Calgary except better in every possible way.

[Marsh]

Anyone that thinks Amazon is coming to Canada is kidding themselves.

[adam c]

Denver, like Calgary except better in every possible way.

Except public healthcare

[gatorade]

Anyone that thinks Amazon is coming to Canada is kidding themselves.

I actually haven't even seen Calgary mentioned on any list as a prospective headquarters other than the articles mentioned here.

[Gestalt]

Amazon. Tax payer funded exploiters.

Whoever lets them in tbeir city must never be elected avain.

I wonder if theiyl name the tax payer funded road servicing Amazon innovation way, to add insult to injury for being a iniveristy degreed invneotey clerk being paid $14.60 an hour. Like they did in MA?

[Toms-SC]

It's going to head to Texas.