Official Genesis thread. WAS:2019 Hyundai G70

[94boosted]

Does anyone else think that the upcoming G70 could be pretty cool? TTV6 365HP/376TQ, Torque Vectoring AWD with a heavy rear bias, Brembo's, Electronically Adjustable Shocks. Former VP of Eng @ BMW M helped develop the chassis and suspension on the car.

If this car undercuts the Germans by 15% or more it could be a pretty good buy. Big question for me is who made the tranny and if that'll be any good and also what the final curb weight shakes out to.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/first-drive-2019-genesis-g70

https://i.imgur.com/5Bfl8uI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1kdFsoa.jpg

[Mitsu3000gt]

Looks pretty sweet. Also they have nicer interiors even than some of the Germans assuming it's the same as the current Genesis'. They need to undercut the Germans by a lot for people to give up that badge pride though. I suspect these will be a hell of a deal on the used market. I also think transmission tuning could make or break the car and they don't mention rev matching.

[realazy]

There's also the Kia stinger which is kinda the "sport" cousin of this car. or maybe the G80 since the Stinger seems bigger.

It's definitely interesting, The G70's interior actually looks very nice and Audi-ish.

[88CRX]

Side profile is very BMW-ish… with a little Acura TLX window trim line mixed in. Rear end is Mercedes-ish. Front is no good haha.

[94boosted]

Looks pretty sweet. Also they have nicer interiors even than some of the Germans assuming it's the same as the current Genesis'. They need to undercut the Germans by a lot for people to give up that badge pride though. I suspect these will be a hell of a deal on the used market. I also think transmission tuning could make or break the car and they don't mention rev matching.

Agreed, if this thing is over 50-55K I don't think it will sell.

Transmission appears to have rev matching "The eight-speed automatic shifts quickly and smartly, and it rev matches its downshifts, giving the G70’s powertrain that extra layer of smoothness." - http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genesis/g70/2019/2019-genesis-g70-first-drive-seoul-soul/


There's also the Kia stinger which is kinda the "sport" cousin of this car. or maybe the G80 since the Stinger seems bigger.

It's definitely interesting, The G70's interior actually looks very nice and Audi-ish.

I think it's actually the opposite, this is the sport cousin to the Stinger if anything, it's got a smaller wheelbase and should be lighter.




Side profile is very BMW-ish… with a little Acura TLX window trim line mixed in. Rear end is Mercedes-ish. Front is no good haha.

I think the front actually looks better than the side profile.

[Buster]

I don't think the Germans need to be too worried. I would cross-shop one with a german, because I'm not a brand whore. But most people wouldn't.

The guys who REALLY need to be worried, are the Japanese wannabe brands like Infiniti and Acura. Would i buy this over a C class? Probably not. Would I buy it over a Infinit Q-whatever? Hell ya.

I presume it will have the ZF in it for the tranny?

[Toms-SC]

The Kia Stinger is coming first.

[corsvette]

Zero originality in the design, it a mish-mash of everyone else's styling traits. It would have to be boatloads cheaper than the german competitors, and at the end of the day its a Hyundai, no matter how nice its still a discount car brand with horrible resale value. My cousin is a sales manager at a import dealer (toyota/lexus) in Portland Or, the number on car traded in? Late model Hyundai's/Kia's, these owners are almost always terribly upside down on their loans too because of the resale. The cars are a hard sell used and owners tend not to like them much after 2 years. Hyundai/Kia is a starter car, a great "first" new car for under 20 grand for a college/uni grad. There's a long road ahead of them before their a considered worthy luxury alternative to BMW, Lexus, etc....

[88CRX]

Zero originality in the design, it a mish-mash of everyone else's styling traits. It would have to be boatloads cheaper than the german competitors, and at the end of the day its a KIA, no matter how nice its still a discount car brand with horrible resale value. My cousin is a sales manager at a import dealer (toyota/lexus) in Portland Or, the number on car traded in? Late model Hyundai's/Kia's, these owners are almost always terribly upside down on their loans too because of the resale. The cars are a hard sell used and owners tend not to like them much after 2 years. Kia is a starter car, a great "first" new car for under 20 grand for a college/uni grad. There's a long road ahead of them before their a considered worthy luxury alternative to BMW, Lexus, etc....

This is a Hyundai... not a Kia haha.

But understandable how you can mix them up, they both have the same damn strategy.

[heavyD]

These are the types of cars that are great deals for the 2nd owners who end up with a nice car for a great price after depreciation.

[dirtsniffer]

I know of a few people with genesis sedans and they are both unreliable. I would pay the Lexus or acura premium for sure. infiniti, maybe not.

[Tik-Tok]

I know of a few people with genesis dedans and they are bot reliable.

You also know a Beyonder that would say quite the opposite, lol.

[BokCh0y]

Have to admit, I am impressed.

[rx7boi]

You also know a Beyonder that would say quite the opposite, lol.

First thing I thought of when I saw this thread :rofl:
Phenix

[vengie]

These are the types of cars that are great deals for the 2nd owners who end up with a nice car for a great price after depreciation.

This is exactly my thought.

I plan on a new vehicle in a couple years and this will likely be on my list.

[A790]

I like it, though if I'm going to buy this car, it'd be the Stinger (love me a hatch).

[benyl]

It sounds like the Stinger has a shitty tranny if MT is to be believed.

[A790]

It sounds like the Stinger has a shitty tranny if MT is to be believed.

Aww, there it is: the Kia Kompromise.

[Tik-Tok]

It sounds like the Stinger has a shitty tranny if MT is to be believed.

:confused:


The final piece of the puzzle is an in-house-designed and built eight-speed automatic transmission, the only option. It’s an excellent gearbox, performing as well on the track as the industry standard ZF eight-speed found in many European sport sedans. It changes gears quickly and smoothly, and the Sport mode programming is almost good enough not to need the paddles on track. I’d make it a little more aggressive myself, but it’s close. As for the paddles, their response is a bit slow and inconsistent, and the gearbox will automatically upshift at redline, which always seems to arrive more quickly than anticipated.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/kia/stinger/2018/2018-kia-stinger-gt-track-drive-review/

[dirtsniffer]

You also know a Beyonder that would say quite the opposite, lol.


I meant to say the opposite. Haha. Hopefully the car is more reliable than my typing skills.

[bjstare]

There's no way this is going to take sales away from the germans. Might steal some from the Acura/Infiniti crowd, like Buster said.

Also agree that it will depreciate like a rock and be a great used buy, assuming the quality is there and it doesn't fall apart after 50k.

[benyl]

:confused:

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/kia/stinger/2018/2018-kia-stinger-gt-track-drive-review/


https://youtu.be/tSWQTkbTYIQ?t=544

https://youtu.be/tSWQTkbTYIQ?t=544

"Even in sport mode, the 8-speed Automatic is not smart enough or calibrated for track work."

Not a true manual mode that will upshift at redline. Takes the fun out of the car IMO.

[Disoblige]

The criss-cross grill looks tacky. I think it would look a whole lot better if it had a nice subtle satin horizontal grill marks.

[dj_patm]

This has the tail lights the Merc's should have had and the Merc's have the tail lights that look like they're from a kia or hyundai.

[Disoblige]

That's like a 2012-2015 Civic coupe taillight.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Agreed, if this thing is over 50-55K I don't think it will sell.

Transmission appears to have rev matching "The eight-speed automatic shifts quickly and smartly, and it rev matches its downshifts, giving the G70’s powertrain that extra layer of smoothness." - http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genesis/g70/2019/2019-genesis-g70-first-drive-seoul-soul/


Good catch, that is encouraging.

Again I think they need to price these further below the Germans than they want to take many customers, but time will tell. I don't think many buyers are going to give up the badge for $5K or even $10K+ on a more expensive model. As silly as it sounds, people still don't want to go to work and tell their coworkers they bought a Hyundai haha. I work with a bunch of guys who would never even consider this car for no other reason than that. They might have more luck pulling people away from Japanese and American competition. Also people love to lease cars they can't afford - especially in the luxury segment. If the residuals are crap, people may not want to do that either. You also have cars like the Infinity Red Sport that after incentives could be had for barely over $50K already undercutting the Germans by $10K+...it needs to be at least that low if not lower, I would think.

Personally I love everything about this thing - the looks, the interior/options, and the engine. I couldn't care less about brand and would love to own something like this at a significant discount to the competition. After the Genesis thread though, I think I'd prefer to lease haha.

[dj_patm]

That's like a 2012-2015 Civic coupe taillight.

I see it.

But man the new Mercedes tail lights are the worst.

[94boosted]

Again I think they need to price these further below the Germans than they want to take many customers, but time will tell. I don't think many buyers are going to give up the badge for $5K or even $10K+ on a more expensive model. As silly as it sounds, people still don't want to go to work and tell their coworkers they bought a Hyundai haha. I work with a bunch of guys who would never even consider this car for no other reason than that. They might have more luck pulling people away from Japanese and American competition. Also people love to lease cars they can't afford - especially in the luxury segment. If the residuals are crap, people may not want to do that either. You also have cars like the Infinity Red Sport that after incentives could be had for barely over $50K already undercutting the Germans by $10K+...it needs to be at least that low if not lower, I would think.



I had no idea you could get a Red Sport for just over 50K if that's the case then yah this thing needs to be in the 40's at most.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I had no idea you could get a Red Sport for just over 50K if that's the case then yah this thing needs to be in the 40's at most.

Yeah Infinity was offering ~$7500-$8500 off MSRP depending on the month. No idea if those promos are still on or not, but my dad almost bought one so we were very familiar with the pricing. They were around $52K with the options most people would want. The G70 probably has a better interior but the rest is pretty similar between the two. The G70 in the $40's with the big motor would be crazy good value, but I don't think it will be that cheap even if it needs to be. That is Acura TL territory and I'm sure it's 10X more fun.

[dj_patm]

When I talked to the guy at Kia at the last car show he said that the faster Stinger was starting over $50 K which seemed absolutely insane to me. Over 50K for Kia?

Can't imagine this will be any cheaper than that, which is stupid on their part.

I have a Genesis Coupe, I love it, but I love it because I got it for $27 K as there are definitely some fit and finish issues with it (only one failed sensor so far in over 100K km though). I would never consider spending over $40 K for a Hyundai unless it was a fully loaded Santa Fe XL or something, definitely not a small sedan/coupe.

The G70 looks great but unless it starts in the 40's, it's a non-starter to me. Maybe if it offered a normal stick shift, I'd take it over an Acura TLX Sh-awd.

[94boosted]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a12482585/kia-stinger-price/

The 3.3-liter twin-turbo 365-horsepower V6 model will cost you $39,895. That car comes standard with LED headlights and a flat-bottom steering wheel, but if you want any of that other premium trim stuff, you'll have to option the GT1 trim, which starts at $44,395.

The top-tier GT2 starts at $50,395, and is the only trim to include a 16-way power driver's seat and a limited-slip differential. The GT2 trim also gets a a head-up display, lane departure warning, and adaptive cruise control standard. Any Stinger model can be equipped with all-wheel drive for $2200.

So $52,595USD MSRP for a fully loaded AWD Kia Stinger GT :rofl::rofl::rofl: What have these guys been smoking.

I take it a G70 would be similar in pricing.

[rx7boi]

Kia and Genesis both elicited chuckles from me at the auto show this past April.

Fully loaded G80 for 95k? Who do you think you are?

[dj_patm]

That 40 Grand base price in that road and track article is american.

It'll start well above 50K here by the looks of it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Kia and Genesis both elicited chuckles from me at the auto show this past April.

Fully loaded G80 for 95k? Who do you think you are?

The way they see it, they are competing with the $150K Germans, so in their eyes they are offering you an absolute bargain. The problem is that nobody with $95K to spend is buying a Hyundai/Kia even if they can offer a similar value proposition. That's one reason why they spun off the Genesis brand. People care about brand way too much, even though Hyundai/Kia has come a ridiculously long way from when they were truly making garbage. Honda was there too back in the day, but they seemed to have an easier time changing people's opinions. For whatever reason, people just can't seem to get over the brand once price crosses a certain threshold and I think that threshold is lower in sports/prestige/luxury cars than it is with SUV's like the Santa Fe.

I'm guessing they won't sell well only due to price and they will be heavily discounted like the original Genesis' were, but we'll see. Or, if Hyundai subsidizes the used value and offers high residual leases (like Cadillac does) I could see them doing OK, but that's not a great business plan.

[realazy]

When I talked to the guy at Kia at the last car show he said that the faster Stinger was starting over $50 K which seemed absolutely insane to me. Over 50K for Kia?



The Stinger ballpark msrp prices are already on the kia website. http://www.kia.ca/stinger2018

"Under $50,000" for the top model GT Limited and "Under $45,000" for the regular GT

The 2.0T models could be in the high 30s.

[94boosted]

The Stinger ballpark msrp prices are already on the kia website. http://www.kia.ca/stinger2018

"Under $50,000" for the top model GT Limited and "Under $45,000" for the regular GT

The 2.0T models could be in the high 30s.

If they actually end up keeping the GT Limited "Starting Under 50" like that link says then it looks like they'd be cheaper here than in the US.

[Xtrema]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a12482585/kia-stinger-price/
So $52,595USD MSRP for a fully loaded AWD Kia Stinger GT :rofl::rofl::rofl: What have these guys been smoking.

I take it a G70 would be similar in pricing.

I think they need to revisit their strategy. How long did Hyundai suffered selling luxury cars until they try spinning Genesis off to it's own brand? Kia is repeating the same mistakes?

If the Stinger is going against E/5/A6 class, it's a bargain at $52K. But still that badge still doesn't command that kind of price.

[A790]

I think they need to revisit their strategy. How long did Hyundai suffered selling luxury cars until they try spinning Genesis off to it's own brand? Kia is repeating the same mistakes?

If the Stinger is going against E/5/A6 class, it's a bargain at $52K. But still that badge still doesn't command that kind of price.

But they'll sell a few (heavily discounted), and then those will hit the used market with awesome depreciation, and then folks like me will pick them up 2 years later for half what they were new and laugh all the way to the track.

Works for me. IDGAF about brand. 365hp TT AWD fastback? Fuck yea.

[Buster]

The way they see it, they are competing with the $150K Germans, so in their eyes they are offering you an absolute bargain. The problem is that nobody with $95K to spend is buying a Hyundai/Kia even if they can offer a similar value proposition. That's one reason why they spun off the Genesis brand. People care about brand way too much, even though Hyundai/Kia has come a ridiculously long way from when they were truly making garbage. Honda was there too back in the day, but they seemed to have an easier time changing people's opinions. For whatever reason, people just can't seem to get over the brand once price crosses a certain threshold and I think that threshold is lower in sports/prestige/luxury cars than it is with SUV's like the Santa Fe.

I'm guessing they won't sell well only due to price and they will be heavily discounted like the original Genesis' were, but we'll see. Or, if Hyundai subsidizes the used value and offers high residual leases (like Cadillac does) I could see them doing OK, but that's not a great business plan.

Honda created its name for quality during a time when the Big3 were making truly atrocious product. Hyundai was making its name during a time when the Japanese were making decent cars, and the Americans were starting to figure it out.

[Aleks]

The Stinger ballpark msrp prices are already on the kia website. http://www.kia.ca/stinger2018

"Under $50,000" for the top model GT Limited and "Under $45,000" for the regular GT

The 2.0T models could be in the high 30s.

Is Canada even getting the smaller engine?

People are always shocked by new car prices. We live in a world where a new Camry V6 is close to $45,000 otd. Low 50k for these sedans is good pricing still.

[blownz]

People are always shocked by new car prices. We live in a world where a new Camry V6 is close to $45,000 otd. Low 50k for these sedans is good pricing still.

I agree with this. If the G70 or Stinger are close in price to the TSX (low 50's loaded) then they will be a great deal. And I would buy the G70 or Stinger over a TSX anyday.

[civic_stylez]

I agree with this. If the G70 or Stinger are close in price to the TSX (low 50's loaded) then they will be a great deal. And I would buy the G70 or Stinger over a TSX anyday.

agreed. A lot of the sedans that used to be sports themed look really tired now. I think that Stinger looks amazing.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[mzdspd]

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genesis/g70/2019/2019-genesis-g70-first-drive-seoul-soul/

Starting to look like this car will be pretty good!

[flipstah]

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/genesis/g70/2019/2019-genesis-g70-first-drive-seoul-soul/

Starting to look like this car will be pretty good!

Man, it's hard to make a car stand out nowadays.

Looking through the gallery gave me reminders of:

- Mazda (front)
- Infiniti (side 3/4 view from the front)
- BMW (rear)

Those quilted seats though... HNGH

[Xtrema]

I agree with this. If the G70 or Stinger are close in price to the TSX (low 50's loaded) then they will be a great deal. And I would buy the G70 or Stinger over a TSX anyday.

Stinger price announced for Canada:

GT $44,195
GT Limited $49,995

[rx7boi]

I wonder how the Stinger will be for second hand pricing. I imagine it'll probably drop a lot unless for some reason owners all of a sudden think their Kia shouldn't depreciate moreso than most brands.

[flipstah]

I wonder how the Stinger will be for second hand pricing. I imagine it'll probably drop a lot unless for some reason owners all of a sudden think their Kia shouldn't depreciate moreso than most brands.

Depends on how market perception is. If it's good enough that people won't re-sell, and is reliable enough, then I can see it keeping their value.

[civicHB]

Stinger price announced for Canada:

GT $44,195
GT Limited $49,995

The pricing is almost identical to the infiniti Q50. I think the Q50 would be a safer longer term alternative, especially at similar initial pricing

http://www.infiniti.ca/buildyourinfiniti/retailerLocator/results

[dimi]

As with all Korean vehicles, they sound like a great idea on paper, but then once you get into the details it’s not as compelling. In real life the engine won’t be as powerful as the German rivals. The transmission won’t be as smooth. It’ll be a bit heavier. It won’t sound as good. It won’t handle as well. The interior won’t be as polished. And it will obviously depreciate much faster.

Add it all up, it’s an inferior vehicle and it feels compromised. That’s why you are paying less, not because it’s a bargain.

For me the choice is easy. Save another $7-8g and buy a base S4/340/c43. It might not have all the options, but I’ll take that simplicity over a bunch of tacky bullshit that I’ll never use. Or a Q50. Or you could just wait 2 years and buy one for $25g.

[Tik-Tok]

As with all Korean vehicles, they sound like a great idea on paper, but then once you get into the details it’s not as compelling. In real life the engine won’t be as powerful as the German rivals. The transmission won’t be as smooth. It’ll be a bit heavier. It won’t sound as good. It won’t handle as well. The interior won’t be as polished. And it will obviously depreciate much faster.


Even if it was identically comparable in all those ways, it'll take years to build up a reputation enough for it not to depreciate quickly.

[blownz]

Stinger price announced for Canada:

GT $44,195
GT Limited $49,995

Definitely impressive pricing considering all the standard features.


The pricing is almost identical to the infiniti Q50. I think the Q50 would be a safer longer term alternative, especially at similar initial pricing
[/URL]

Not even close to similar pricing when you add options to the Infiniti. You are looking at $57K for the 300hp Q50 and $61K for the 400hp Q50. Plus there are things like the HUD and wireless phone charging that Infiniti doesn't even have available. The Stinger is closer in price to the Nissan Maxima than it is to the Infiniti Q50 yet I think most people will compare it to the Q50 long before they compare it to the Maxima.


Based on the few reviews out there so far, I still think the Stinger (and the G70 will likely be similar) will be a great option compared to a TSX (~$53K loaded) or Q50. It may still be a step below the German's, but you are paying more like mid 70's for a comparably equipped S4/340/C43. That is close to 50% more money. Not sure if you can even compare that.

I personally think the styling is a bit much for me, and the interior doesn't look as premium as some of the other cars it wants to compete with. But I love the body style (hatch) and the specs are impressive and same with the reviews so far. I actually plan on buying a new daily driver this coming spring and I will definitely take a close look at one of these.

[BokCh0y]

I saw the G80 earlier this week driving around....jesus fuck that is hot looking car. Not sure how it'll be from a reliability standpoint though, but fuck still a really hot looking car.

[Aleks]

Definitely impressive pricing considering all the standard features.




It looks like MSRP is actually less in Canada than USA on the Limited model.

[mzdspd]

Not sure how it'll be from a reliability standpoint though, but fuck still a really hot looking car.

Hyundai and Kia tend to be at the upper end of reliability from the JD power studies... Whereas infiniti is at the bottom.

I would definitely consider this car (Stinger) if I was in that market for a larger sedan. IMO I would put the Q50 on the bottom of the list for cars in this segment, the transmission and steering just ruin the car.

[Xtrema]

I wonder how the Stinger will be for second hand pricing. I imagine it'll probably drop a lot unless for some reason owners all of a sudden think their Kia shouldn't depreciate moreso than most brands.

https://jalopnik.com/kia-is-offering-up-to-6-800-off-the-sticker-price-if-y-1820848361

Kia already put $7K on the hood on a GT2 if you lease one in US. Resell is going to be BAD.

If Kia put $9K CAD on the hood in Canada, I will definitely get one! lol.

[Mitsu3000gt]

That's got to be the only way a lease would ever make sense on that car given the rock-bottom residual it must have. Cadillac does the same thing all the time here too. They just can't shake that stigma I guess.

[94boosted]

http://www.autotrader.ca/newsfeatures/20180402/genesis-prices-g70-sports-sedan/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Display&utm_content=Native-NF-20180402_N_G70_Pricing&utm_campaign=CA-DSP-DM-EN-CONTENT

52K to start for the 3.3TT Dynamic and 57.5K for the 3.3TT Sport. With freight/pdi/tax that's 60K I no longer see the value in this thing at that price point. It's direct competitor (on paper) the Initini red sport starts at 52.6K.

[Mys73ri0]

111

[zhao]

Ya no thx, I'll take a Bmw/merc/Lexus for about the same price and avoid having to spend 10 minutes explaining why I spent 60g on a Hyundai no ones ever heard of.

[dirtsniffer]

It's not a Hyundai right.

[mzdspd]

http://www.autotrader.ca/newsfeatures/20180402/genesis-prices-g70-sports-sedan/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Display&utm_content=Native-NF-20180402_N_G70_Pricing&utm_campaign=CA-DSP-DM-EN-CONTENT

52K to start for the 3.3TT Dynamic and 57.5K for the 3.3TT Sport. With freight/pdi/tax that's 60K I no longer see the value in this thing at that price point. It's direct competitor (on paper) the Initini red sport starts at 52.6K.

So essentially its cheaper than the worst car in its class? Doesn't sound like such a bad deal.

The prototype tests seem to show that this car will be pretty amazing. But brand snobs won't take a glance at it.

[npham]

So essentially its cheaper than the worst car in its class? Doesn't sound like such a bad deal.

The prototype tests seem to show that this car will be pretty amazing. But brand snobs won't take a glance at it.

It's just not brand snobs, it's people that care about resale. I'm sure it's a fine car to drive, but give it one year and it will be half off on the secondary market.

[gpomp]

http://www.autotrader.ca/newsfeatures/20180402/genesis-prices-g70-sports-sedan/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Display&utm_content=Native-NF-20180402_N_G70_Pricing&utm_campaign=CA-DSP-DM-EN-CONTENT

52K to start for the 3.3TT Dynamic and 57.5K for the 3.3TT Sport. With freight/pdi/tax that's 60K I no longer see the value in this thing at that price point. It's direct competitor (on paper) the Initini red sport starts at 52.6K.

How much would maintenance cost you on the Q50 over a 5 year period though? On the Hyundai, it would be $0...

[EnRichii]

I had no idea you could get a Red Sport for just over 50K if that's the case then yah this thing needs to be in the 40's at most.

Looking at Auotrader right now. I'm sure I could get a loaded red sport AWD from Infinity for high 40s for sure. Pretty good deal I think. I'm not feeling this G70. The Infinity looks waaaay better inside and out. Plus its Hyundai.... I mean.

EDIT:
http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/infiniti/q50/calgary/alberta/5_37017740_20053211152706/?showcpo=ShowCpo&orup=13_15_47&pc=T3M%200N7&sprx=100
That one I'm sure you can get for 44 - 45k, its brand new and a 2018

[vengie]

Looking at Auotrader right now. I'm sure I could get a loaded red sport AWD from Infinity for high 40s for sure. Pretty good deal I think. I'm not feeling this G70. The Infinity looks waaaay better inside and out. Plus its Hyundai.... I mean.

EDIT:
http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/infiniti/q50/calgary/alberta/5_37017740_20053211152706/?showcpo=ShowCpo&orup=13_15_47&pc=T3M%200N7&sprx=100
That one I'm sure you can get for 44 - 45k, its brand new and a 2018



But is it fully loaded?

[zhao]

Not everyone cares about options. My 335 is loaded -minus radar, and I could do without the birds eye cameras, backup camera, cross traffic cameras, million sensors, 40 seat positions, retarded trunk foot access sensor, auto braking cruise (I hate that shit), dual climate, navi, heat wheel, sunroof, garage remote, etc. I got one with all that crap only cuz it already had it for a good price

Nor do I want all the stupid modes and stability control and traction control that is standard

Options I care about: engine, suspension, real leather over fake, trim. Stuff that makes the car driver better or feel better or look better.

[Aleks]

It's just not brand snobs, it's people that care about resale. I'm sure it's a fine car to drive, but give it one year and it will be half off on the secondary market.

While I agree Hyundai aren't resale value champs, do other brands do any better in this segment? Here is a car that was over $50k new, 1 year old selling at a dealer for mid 30s.

http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/bmw/3%20series/calgary/alberta/5_37960399_20041124134452706/

A fully equipped 340 can push $75-80 grand today :dunno:

[Xtrema]

If top model can be leased for $600/mth for 48 months, it is competitive.

Any more than that, smart money will still go to Germans.

[mzdspd]

It's just not brand snobs, it's people that care about resale. I'm sure it's a fine car to drive, but give it one year and it will be half off on the secondary market.

Right. Find me another luxury brand that hasn't lost 50-60% of its MSRP value in 4 years. They all do..

[94boosted]

How much would maintenance cost you on the Q50 over a 5 year period though? On the Hyundai, it would be $0...

Good call, with maintenance included that's a nice bit of savings.

[Aleks]

Genesis also includes all fees in their prices too. So Freight/PDI is already included.

[riander5]

Haven't we already been down this path before with Hyundai
Dear Hyundai,

Fuck off already with copy-cat German cars

Sincerely
-SP



I wouldn't consider a Hyundai over an Acura personally.... maybe over an Infinity or a Lexus, but it would have to be at least half price to even bother cross shopping one

Dont you drive a ford? Lets see some comparable pictures of early 2000 fords... or their new copycat ranger rover explorer. If you can look past your bias these cars actually look decent

[Seth1968]

If you can look past your bias these cars actually look decent

Ya, the bias in this thread is laughable.

Truth is, the South Korean's are making very good vehicles with exceptional value for the money.

[Kloubek]

The real problem with the Genesis sedans is that they are meant to try to compete with the German luxury market. The problem with this is multiple, but I think the two big ones are:
1) While far improved over the old Hyundai, they still tend to not quite be on par with German engineering... both from a physical design/materials standpoint as well as mechanical/driving one.
2) People who are willing to drop 50k on a car are often not THAT concerned about saving 5k, and/or are spending the extra not just for the car itself but for the status. What kind of person wants to say "I'm not QUITE successful"? Hyundai was right to badge it with just Genesis instead of their own logo, but at the end of the day anyone remotely understanding of the market still views it as a Hyundai. Those who don't generally don't care either way.

So really, I'm not sure what market this is meant to cater to. It doesn't cater to the people who expect the very best driving car in the segment. (Though Hyundai is improving). It doesn't cater to the people who want the most luxurious. (Though Hyundai is improving). It doesn't cater to the brand snobs. I guess it caters to someone who doesn't care about brand cache, doesn't care that their car isn't the best in any way, and is willing to pay just a bit less than the competition that DOES tick all the boxes. Pretty narrow market if you ask me.

[schocker]

While I agree Hyundai aren't resale value champs, do other brands do any better in this segment? Here is a car that was over $50k new, 1 year old selling at a dealer for mid 30s.

http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/bmw/3%20series/calgary/alberta/5_37960399_20041124134452706/

A fully equipped 340 can push $75-80 grand today :dunno:
That car was a rental though, so not quite apples to apples.

[FraserB]

Dont you drive a ford? Lets see some comparable pictures of early 2000 fords... or their new copycat ranger rover explorer. If you can look past your bias these cars actually look decent

I think he drives a Q5

[npham]

Right. Find me another luxury brand that hasn't lost 50-60% of its MSRP value in 4 years. They all do..

I said in 1 year. Not in 4.

[mzdspd]

I said in 1 year. Not in 4.

Can you find any examples of hyundais that have lost half in 1 year? I sure can't.

[blownz]

So really, I'm not sure what market this is meant to cater to. It doesn't cater to the people who expect the very best driving car in the segment. (Though Hyundai is improving). It doesn't cater to the people who want the most luxurious. (Though Hyundai is improving). It doesn't cater to the brand snobs. I guess it caters to someone who doesn't care about brand cache, doesn't care that their car isn't the best in any way, and is willing to pay just a bit less than the competition that DOES tick all the boxes. Pretty narrow market if you ask me.

I think there is a middle ground though. Sure they are "aiming" for the Germans, but with the loaded comparable Germans costing mid 70's and this is mid 50's it is around $20K cheaper. That is a huge amount. It may not be as good as the best in the class (C43, S5, 340) but based on early impressions, it sounds like it is ~90% there at ~70% of the price. And it seems way better than cars like the Acura TLX, Volvo S60, Infiniti Q50 which it is priced closer to.

I think the savings is enough that it almost is in a different class from the Germans. And all though it may seem like it on a site like this, not everyone is a brand snob and cares about the badge on their car.

I am personally surprised that the loaded G70 is about $5K more than a loaded Stinger GT. I thought they would be priced closer. I am interested in looking closer at both of them as imo they are two of the most interesting new cars on the market right now.

[Tik-Tok]

I think he drives a Q5

Also a Fiesta ST (or Focus, can't recall)

[blownz]

Looking at Auotrader right now. I'm sure I could get a loaded red sport AWD from Infinity for high 40s for sure. Pretty good deal I think. I'm not feeling this G70. The Infinity looks waaaay better inside and out. Plus its Hyundai.... I mean.

EDIT:
http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/infiniti/q50/calgary/alberta/5_37017740_20053211152706/?showcpo=ShowCpo&orup=13_15_47&pc=T3M%200N7&sprx=100
That one I'm sure you can get for 44 - 45k, its brand new and a 2018

If you can get a brand new 2018 Infiniti for $11-12K off of MSRP then it is worse than the American manufacturers and must be a POS.

And that is not a "loaded" model. That is the MSRP of a base red sport. Loaded is over $61K

[dirtsniffer]

not having to deal with kia service is worth the $5k, lol.

[Xtrema]

I am personally surprised that the loaded G70 is about $5K more than a loaded Stinger GT. I thought they would be priced closer. I am interested in looking closer at both of them as imo they are two of the most interesting new cars on the market right now.

Consider you have different experience, loaners, and probably at least 5 scheduled services included. That at min should worth able $1500.

I'm willing to give Genesis a try, especially if the Stinger is under the Genesis brand. G70 is too small IMO.

[blownz]

not having to deal with kia service is worth the $5k, lol.

You might very well be right lol

Oddly enough my parents have a ~2012 Kia Forte and they have loved the dealer. Their other car is ~2010 Jetta and they claim the Kia dealer is way better than any VW dealer in the city. Before the Kia they had a subaru and they say Kia dealer is better than subaru too. I have never been to any of those dealers for service so I can't say...

[Mitsu3000gt]

I would lease one of these if Hyundai bolstered the residuals. If they don't, it will be a horrible deal I think (pricing isn't out yet but I will be shocked if you see good 4yr residuals). Awesome car though, the press loves it (so far) and they are built as well as most of the Germans as far as I can tell without actually having driven one.

Kind of like those Cadillac deals - you would have to be out of your mind to lease one at MSRP, so GM always has huge incentives running to move their grossly overpriced models.

Also, for almost all of 2017 you could get a loaded Infiniti Red Sport for $48K (Approx. $14K off). I don't think Infiniti can sell those cars at the numbers they want at par with the S4/C63. I don't know if they are doing the same promotions for 2018 (finally done shopping haha), but if they are, that is probably the closest off-brand competition.

[EnRichii]

check this deal Brand new 2016 ATS V for what you should be able to get around 50 maybe upper 40s
http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/Cadillac/ATS-V/Edmonton/AB/5_32735503_2004331134810706/?loc=T6E3P7&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Display&utm_content=AB-DPV-EN-NEW-RMG-%2450K_%2460K-SEDANS&utm_campaign=CA-DSP-DM-EN-REMARKETING_DPV

[Xtrema]

check this deal Brand new 2016 ATS V for what you should be able to get around 50 maybe upper 40s
http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/Cadillac/ATS-V/Edmonton/AB/5_32735503_2004331134810706/?loc=T6E3P7&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Display&utm_content=AB-DPV-EN-NEW-RMG-%2450K_%2460K-SEDANS&utm_campaign=CA-DSP-DM-EN-REMARKETING_DPV

While it only has 14km. On the book it's only worth $45K. Wonder why they let it sit for that long. And god I still hate that dash layout.

[JRSC00LUDE]

check this deal Brand new 2016 ATS V for what you should be able to get around 50 maybe upper 40s
http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/Cadillac/ATS-V/Edmonton/AB/5_32735503_2004331134810706/?loc=T6E3P7&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Display&utm_content=AB-DPV-EN-NEW-RMG-%2450K_%2460K-SEDANS&utm_campaign=CA-DSP-DM-EN-REMARKETING_DPV

They knock that POS down to 30 and I might think about it. Anyone who pays those prices for a Cadillac is a full bore retard.

[EnRichii]

They knock that POS down to 30 and I might think about it. Anyone who pays those prices for a Cadillac is a full bore retard.

Dude for 30! I'll go buy that right now. Seriously, I'd leave right now and drive up to Edmonton. lol your funny ;)

[npham]

Can you find any examples of hyundais that have lost half in 1 year? I sure can't.

In 2017 a G80's MSRP was $65,000 without options or packages. By the time you add in taxes, fees and maybe an option you'd be looking around $75,000 new. Here's a listing for $43000 - 2017 G80 (http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/genesis/g80/montr%c3%a9al/quebec/5_37877740_20101213115149603/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=1&urm=1&pc=T3E%200H8&sprx=-1)

Sure the math isn't quite 50% but isn't it close enough for you to want to stay away?

[ExtraSlow]

Well, every car from every manufacturer loses the taxes and fees portion of the original sale price. So, that's not unique.

[dirtsniffer]

Comparing to msrp will inflate the loss as well. Not mayny people would have paid it.

[zhao]

They knock that POS down to 30 and I might think about it. Anyone who pays those prices for a Cadillac is a full bore retard.

Too rich for my blood, I'd only go as high as maybe 22g only cuz I think I might be able to sell it close to that after a year.

[npham]

Well, every car from every manufacturer loses the taxes and fees portion of the original sale price. So, that's not unique.


Comparing to msrp will inflate the loss as well. Not maybe people would have paid it.

Ok tell me how you'd get a price without using MSRP? I could easily have said the used car is 39K(because I can negotiate a discount) to make my numbers look better, but I knew someone would complain without thinking this through.

Also, why do fees and taxes matter in this scenario? We are comparing a buying a new car(every new car requires fees and taxes) to one that's a year old.

[Mys73ri0]

I would lease one of these if Hyundai bolstered the residuals. If they don't, it will be a horrible deal I think (pricing isn't out yet but I will be shocked if you see good 4yr residuals). Awesome car though, the press loves it (so far) and they are built as well as most of the Germans as far as I can tell without actually having driven one.

Kind of like those Cadillac deals - you would have to be out of your mind to lease one at MSRP, so GM always has huge incentives running to move their grossly overpriced models.

Also, for almost all of 2017 you could get a loaded Infiniti Red Sport for $48K (Approx. $14K off). I don't think Infiniti can sell those cars at the numbers they want at par with the S4/C63. I don't know if they are doing the same promotions for 2018 (finally done shopping haha), but if they are, that is probably the closest off-brand competition.

If you do a pre-order you can see their pricing..

Lease on the 3.3 TT ($52,000) is $650 /month $1k DP
my bad math says the residual is about 48%? How does that compare to the germans? I have no idea...

Also, having sat in all the luxury brands vehicles at the car show -- the G70 is comparable if not better than most...

[Xtrema]

If you do a pre-order you can see their pricing..

Lease on the 3.3 TT ($52,000) is $650 /month $1k DP
my bad math says the residual is about 48%? How does that compare to the germans? I have no idea...

Also, having sat in all the luxury brands vehicles at the car show -- the G70 is comparable if not better than most...

$57K Genesis G70, $1K down, 39 months @ 1.9%, 752/month
$59K C43 base (maintenance/freight included), $1K down, 39 months @ 2.9%, $785/month.

If the interest matches, the payment is the same. So residual is probably the same or close. So I would say it's in the 45-50% range or around 5% off Mercede's.

Seems to me they have done their homework and Kia didn't with Stinger.

[Mitsu3000gt]

check this deal Brand new 2016 ATS V for what you should be able to get around 50 maybe upper 40s
http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/Cadillac/ATS-V/Edmonton/AB/5_32735503_2004331134810706/?loc=T6E3P7&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Display&utm_content=AB-DPV-EN-NEW-RMG-%2450K_%2460K-SEDANS&utm_campaign=CA-DSP-DM-EN-REMARKETING_DPV

$30K off and no buyers in 3 years...lol. And it's still overpriced.

I was very close to leasing an ATS, but only because rates were so heavily discounted. I couldn't imagine walking into a Caddy dealer and handing them anywhere near full price for any of their cars.

[94boosted]

check this deal Brand new 2016 ATS V for what you should be able to get around 50 maybe upper 40s
http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/Cadillac/ATS-V/Edmonton/AB/5_32735503_2004331134810706/?loc=T6E3P7&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Display&utm_content=AB-DPV-EN-NEW-RMG-%2450K_%2460K-SEDANS&utm_campaign=CA-DSP-DM-EN-REMARKETING_DPV

I doubt you'd get an extra 8K plus off this price, it's by far the cheapest ATS-V on sale right now in Canada (when you factor in the mileage) that I can find.

I did email them to see what the price is when you include preferred pricing though. :burnout:


While it only has 14km. On the book it's only worth $45K. Wonder why they let it sit for that long. And god I still hate that dash layout.

How'd you find that? Car Cost Canada?

[Mitsu3000gt]

If you do a pre-order you can see their pricing..

Lease on the 3.3 TT ($52,000) is $650 /month $1k DP
my bad math says the residual is about 48%? How does that compare to the germans? I have no idea...

Also, having sat in all the luxury brands vehicles at the car show -- the G70 is comparable if not better than most...

Interesting. So basically it seems like a loaded G70 roughly equals a base model S4/C43 for lease. Not too bad. I am not sure what the stretch is to a C43/S4 with a few options, but if it was within $100-150/mo I still think thats a tough sell for the G70. I suppose it matters less with leasing, you don't have to worry about reliability, resale, or even how you treat the car.