Teach me about the Audi A4/S4

[FraserB]

Been thinking about a new car for a while now and I really like the look of the 2015/2016 Audis. It looks like an A4 can be had for around $35k and the S4 for about $12k more.

Looking for some insight on cost of maintenance that one of these with 30000km on it will need, both at the dealer and DIY. Are there any major issues that the engines or body can develop?

Also a bit confused about the trim packages. I’ve been looking at Technik and S-Line, but both seem somewhat similar. Anything specific to stay away from?

Will be just used for driving around town, would take my truck skiing/hiking etc...

[schocker]

S-Line is an appearance package and technik is a trim level. Komfort, Progressive and Technik are the trim levels of the A4, S4 would only have Progressive and Technik. Those are in order of fully loadedness.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Around 2013 and up you are OK with an S4 from an issues standpoint. I have been looking into them heavily lately and have test driven several (father is looking for a new car and that's on his list). The biggest issue with those cars is finding one that hasn't been beat on - I think a lot of people lease them, bag them, and return them. I personally would not buy a lease-back S4 unless I could be thoroughly convinced of its history. Case in point Glenmore Audi has a blue one right now, 2015 with 24,000 km and I'd never buy it because it's obvious the thing has had an extremely rough life. I don't even know how you can put that kind of wear & tear on a car in such a short time. This has been fairly common while looking. Are they ever fun though - tons of power, great exhaust note, and lightning fast DSG is a recipe for smiles the whole time. If you can find a 6MT that will be the most bulletproof, but the later DSGs are fine too as long as they have been treated well and unmodified.

With A4's you have a different customer, and it's probably a lot easier to find a good sample. If you can squeak into a 2017 (Can be had in the $40K range) they got an enormous update (2016 and earlier they were basically unchanged in any major way since 2010). They are also a 5.0sec 0-60 car with the base 2.0T for 2017. I have driven the 2017 A4 a few times now and it's just a great car all round, hard to find anything wrong with it.

Technic is what you want, that is the highest level trim package and will come with all the tech goodies. As mentioned above, S-line is primarily an appearance package and separate from Progressiv/Technik.

The other car you can get for a surprisingly good price is an Audi A6 3.0T. 0-60 times in the 4's and lots of luxury options.

[mzdspd]

I think the 2017 is worth the extra money because the tech is pretty outdated in the 16 and the price difference is not that far off.

Also, if you are just driving around town, the A4 should be plenty. I would try to get the S line to get the sportier look and nicer seats.

[FraserB]

Mitsu, what have the finance rates been like when you’re looking?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Mitsu, what have the finance rates been like when you’re looking?

They are all here, it depends on the year and model though:

https://www.audi.ca/ca/web/en/cpo/offers.html#

Scroll down a bit and click on A4.

[rx7boi]

Following this thread; would like to know more about the A4's as well.

I've been extremely wishy washy on which car to get. My budget is ideally a used A4 under $25000 but the thing that worries me the most is potentially expensive repair bill.

I see a ton of A4's past the 80k km mark. I can only imagine that no one wants to own a german car past initial warranty period which further gives me anxiety haha.

I was thinking that since I'm more budget-minded, even the A3 could be a potential vehicle but I hate the interior.

[Xtrema]

Been thinking about a new car for a while now and I really like the look of the 2015/2016 Audis. It looks like an A4 can be had for around $35k and the S4 for about $12k more.

Looking for some insight on cost of maintenance that one of these with 30000km on it will need, both at the dealer and DIY. Are there any major issues that the engines or body can develop?

Also a bit confused about the trim packages. I’ve been looking at Technik and S-Line, but both seem somewhat similar. Anything specific to stay away from?

Will be just used for driving around town, would take my truck skiing/hiking etc...

If you are looking 2015/16, you should have a bit of factory warranty left and potential to pay for 2 more years with Audi Aftercare.

By 2015/16, all bugs should have been ironed out with with S4/A4. When I had mine (2010), thermostat went out 3 times in 6 years. 1st one caused an engine replacement (failed without warning). 2nd and 3rd time is the replacement that either failed open and failed closed. Lucky I had Aftercare so it costed me nothing. Each failure apparently require 10hrs of tech time to replace thermostat.

Thermostat issue are very common on the supercharged V6 from 2009 (A6) all the way to mid to late 2011 model year.

I believe they had 2.0L issue as well in those years but again solved by 2012/13.

The other issue would be the DSG gear box on the S4. I don't know how well they have lasted as they aged as I have not roam around Audi forums for awhile. But at 30,000km, you should be ok. The only major item coming up would be the DSG fluid change at 50K that would cost you around $250 DIY and dealer will charge anywhere from $700-$1000.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I see a ton of A4's past the 80k km mark. I can only imagine that no one wants to own a german car past initial warranty period which further gives me anxiety haha.



Keep in mind a TON of people lease higher end German cars (especially ones they can't afford) and 4-years is the go-to lease term. That is the most likely reason why you see a lot of them at 80K, they are probably lease backs with average usage (20km/yr X 4 year term).

They are solid cars, but like any car, I wouldn't go too old. Eventually any car will start to have issues, and cars with more features will naturally have more sensors and other things that can fail after a long time. The other option is to pay a bit more and buy a certified used car so you get any balance of the factory warranty still + 2 years along with the balance of the 12yr corrosion warranty.

You also have shops like Tune Dub which will service Audi's for a reasonable price should you ever need it. I've owned two S4's (one modified 2000 with the TTV6 and a stock 2006 with the 4.2 V8) and both of them were just as reliable as both my Civics for the ~6-7 years I owned them as my daily drivers. Zero problems outside routine maintenance. I think a lot of these cars get beat on (Mostly the S4's), and those particular ones are the ones that are likely to have problems.

- - - Updated - - -




The other issue would be the DSG gear box on the S4. I don't know how well they have lasted as they aged as I have not roam around Audi forums for awhile. But at 30,000km, you should be ok. The only major item coming up would be the DSG fluid change at 50K that would cost you around $250 DIY and dealer will charge anywhere from $700-$1000.

After 2013 you're mostly in the clear with the DSG, and assuming it's unmodified and maintained properly. A stage one software upgrade gets you 430HP / 370TQ and I wouldn't want to own a used DSG after someone has beat on that for a while, so IMO you need to put more effort into picking the individual sample.

[JustinL]

I've done a couple jobs on my 2013 B8.5 S4, so I can speak about that. I chose the S4 because it shares so many parts with all kinds of cars in the audi, VAG cars. Parts are pretty reasonable online and insane from the dealer. What I've done so far is changing the fluids, including the DSG fluid and a wheel bearing. Working on the car is not too bad, but like any modern car there's a ton of plastic covers on everything.

[thinmyster]

We purchased a new A4 in 2015 w/ audi care and we just hit ~48K on the odo. We love it so far. No issues. We got the progressive trim with the sport package (all the A4's in Canada are equipped with the S-line appearance package so that's a non issue)

Sport package has the upgraded sport steering wheel and seats (which I like the most) It also included the black optics which added a black headliner, black accents around the cabin and nicer metal trim.
It also lowers the suspension, includes nicer wheels and paddle shifters.

The base Audi is pretty weak. No navigation, no back up camera etc. We rented one for a weekend and it was a little disappointing.

My advice, Progressive or Technik and really look for the sports package.

Also we do have 2 child car seats in there full time. Its a little tight but manageable.

[FraserB]

They are all here, it depends on the year and model though:

https://www.audi.ca/ca/web/en/cpo/offers.html#

Scroll down a bit and click on A4.

Thanks.

The rates seem pretty nice and the price on a new A4 is pretty competitive with used. Maybe wait until March-ish and hope the 2017s drop in price a bit.

For the new to luxury buyer, what models of BMW and Mercedes are cross shopped with the A4?

[s2k_boi]

Thanks.

The rates seem pretty nice and the price on a new A4 is pretty competitive with used. Maybe wait until March-ish and hope the 2017s drop in price a bit.

For the new to luxury buyer, what models of BMW and Mercedes are cross shopped with the A4?


BMW 328 and Mercedes c300/350

[roll_over]

I bought a 2015 S4 to use as a daily/winter beater around Calgary a few months ago, was incredibly let down by the performance/driving feel and ended up dumping it off after no time. V6 sounds like shit, there's no way to make it sound good even with exhaust, no interior room and fit/finish is sub par at best. I had a V8 S5 back in the day and it was a better car in almost every way (or maybe I wasn't such a snob back then).

Buy a Merc instead, way better in almost every way even down to the dealers and service.

[Xtrema]

I had a V8 S5 back in the day and it was a better car in almost every way (or maybe I wasn't such a snob back then).

If you had a V8 S5, 2015 S4 is the same B8 generation with the same material. B8 material is lower than B7 but with better design. By B8.5/9, it got blown out by W205 Merc

BMW has always been shit interior wise.

[roll_over]

If you had a V8 S5, 2015 S4 is the same B8 generation with the same material. B8 material is lower than B7 but with better design. By B8.5/9, it got blown out by W205 Merc

BMW has always been shit interior wise.

I sold the S5 many years ago so maybe I was less picky then and my S5 had every available option, besides having bluetooth audio in the b8.5 I can't think of anything that was better.

Either way, for the amount of love these things get and fanboys that preach how amazing they are I was really let down. They're not fast, don't handle that well and interior space is pretty much non existent.

[FraserB]

So I’m going to test out the A4 and the C350 I think. What are the prefer dealerships for each brand and does anyone have a recommendation for a sales guy that will understand that I’m not going to buy for a couple of months?

[Mitsu3000gt]

So I’m going to test out the A4 and the C350 I think. What are the prefer dealerships for each brand and does anyone have a recommendation for a sales guy that will understand that I’m not going to buy for a couple of months?

I've found both Mercedes dealers to be quite bad. Uninterested sales people who knew literally nothing about the cars. On the weekend we went out with a guy who said he's been selling German cars for 15 years and Mercedes for about 5 years. He didn't know the C450 existed, and he thought the "45 AMG" designation was available on a C class, and he told us the "C45 AMG" was a V8 (didn't even seem to be aware of the C63). Had no clue how to operate anything inside the car either (C400). Earlier, we were denied a test drive because we were walk-ins and didn't have an appointment even though they weren't busy.

Fast forward to Glenmore Audi, they literally hand you the keys to anything, are super laid back, and can confidently answer every single question. Zero pushiness, not once were we even asked for purchase timeline. This has been an identical experience with 3 separate salespeople now. Last time they gave us keys, a dealer plate, and the used car list - we roamed the lot and test drove what we wanted. Consistently one of the best dealership experiences at least with regard to what's important to me. We were there for 4 hours too. Ask for Steve Giles, he is the man.

[flipstah]

Glenmore Audi>Royal Oak. Had waaay better service at Glenmore.

[thinmyster]

We purchased from Steve at glenmore audi also. Positive experience

[JustinL]

I sold the S5 many years ago so maybe I was less picky then and my S5 had every available option, besides having bluetooth audio in the b8.5 I can't think of anything that was better.

Either way, for the amount of love these things get and fanboys that preach how amazing they are I was really let down. They're not fast, don't handle that well and interior space is pretty much non existent.

I tend to agree with this. My B8.5 is not what I would call exciting. It's a great winter car and the S-tronic transmission is a nice compromise for me and my wife as I refused a torque converter automatic and she isn't confident with a manual. I think the car looks great and does it's job, but it's not as exciting as a real sports car. The supercharged V6 engine is strong, but it's an appliance. The handling is acceptable for a big heavy 4 door, but again it's not a sports car.

[rx7boi]

Keep in mind a TON of people lease higher end German cars (especially ones they can't afford) and 4-years is the go-to lease term. That is the most likely reason why you see a lot of them at 80K, they are probably lease backs with average usage (20km/yr X 4 year term).

They are solid cars, but like any car, I wouldn't go too old. Eventually any car will start to have issues, and cars with more features will naturally have more sensors and other things that can fail after a long time. The other option is to pay a bit more and buy a certified used car so you get any balance of the factory warranty still + 2 years along with the balance of the 12yr corrosion warranty.


Oh I meant I see alot of private ones in that range as well.

With anything in life, it's pay to play but given my budget being in the low to mid 20g's, would you recommend even going into an A4? What would you define as old and how old would you go?

I expect that the budget likely will not put me into anything better than a 2011 S-line A4 with 65k to 80k km's so I'm wondering if it's even worth the risk at this point.

I don't know much about these cars, particularly when it comes to higher mileage.

You new car buyers are giving me envy :D

[Xtrema]

you new car leasers are giving me envy :d

ftfy.


Keep in mind a TON of people lease higher end German cars (especially ones they can't afford) and 4-years is the go-to lease term. That is the most likely reason why you see a lot of them at 80K, they are probably lease backs with average usage (20km/yr X 4 year term).

Well unless you can find me a car under $100K that appreciate in values or charges more than 10% to lease. Owning or financing a luxury car is stupid especially if you have cash sitting in the bank.

[FraserB]

Glenmore Audi it is haha. Will probably go to Lone Star just because it’s closer to me.

Have to say that the price of the A4/C350 surprises me a bit, I guess it’s just because I’ve never looked into one, but always figured it would be higher

[Mitsu3000gt]

Glenmore Audi it is haha. Will probably go to Lone Star just because it’s closer to me.

Have to say that the price of the A4/C350 surprises me a bit, I guess it’s just because I’ve never looked into one, but always figured it would be higher

The product ranges are so deep that if you're shopping in the lower end of it, the prices are quite reasonable. Once you get into the S4/C450/C43 then you can easily be in the $70K+ range on a car that starts in the 40's or low 50's.

[redblack]

I’ve always used Jason fee or Ian Kay at glenmore, for servicing go to the glenmore satellite service centre.

[relyt92]

Oh I meant I see alot of private ones in that range as well.

With anything in life, it's pay to play but given my budget being in the low to mid 20g's, would you recommend even going into an A4? What would you define as old and how old would you go?

I expect that the budget likely will not put me into anything better than a 2011 S-line A4 with 65k to 80k km's so I'm wondering if it's even worth the risk at this point.

I don't know much about these cars, particularly when it comes to higher mileage.

You new car buyers are giving me envy :D

Personally at that price point I wouldn't be looking for at an out of warranty A4. I'd be looking G37 or Acura TL awd. Make the nice German the next car.

[dubhead]

Glenmore Audi>Royal Oak. Had waaay better service at Glenmore.

I took my S4 for service once at Royal Oak and they suggested i bring it back for somewhere around $1000 in un-needed work and fluid changes. Took their report to my regular service adviser in Edmonton and they confirmed that not one thing Royal Oak suggested needed to get done or should ever need to be done.

I loved my 2010 S4 maintenance bills added up a bit but that was more to do with driving it 40,000+KM a year. The only real issue I had and seems pretty common in the 2010-2012(B8), and somewhat prevalent in 2013-2016 (B8.5) is the front well well do not hold up to our winter's as there is little to no protection from debris from our roads. At minimum you'll want mudguards up there but getting the inner lip rhino line or plastidipping it would be better. Thread about it here (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/586227-Official-b8-s4-front-fender-paint-chip-memo-to-aoc-aoa?highlight=paint+chipping+s4)

[FraserB]

The paint peeling is concerning, did Audi ever fix the issues under warranty or change the design?

[dubhead]

No nothing under warranty not covered "b/c it's caused by road debris". The 2013+ models have more protection but are still not immune.

[colinxx235]

No nothing under warranty not covered "b/c it's caused by road debris". The 2013+ models have more protection but are still not immune.

Weird, Audi repainted both my front fenders that were peeling/rust (2011).

I did not have many positive comments related to the glenmore service department but those can be found in other threads without re-hashing. If I've learned one thing on beyond is that people have widely varying opinions/experiences at each dealership. I personally would avoid Calgary for sales/service if it was me. Buy from Edmonton or BC and service it via tunedub. Yes you won't get the loaner car service but they charge way less and do much better work.

[Xtrema]

Never had that on my S4 and the 120K I put on it. I guess I was lucky?