$400 camera and lens recommendation

[rizfarmer]

Looking for a Black Friday deal Christmas gift. What would you camera gurus recommend for a $400 range camera + lens combo? Don't need a hardcore separate body/lens setup for this one.

[Mitsu3000gt]

When you say camera + lens combo, it sounds like you want a DSLR, but you also say you don't want a separate body/lens. Are you just looking for a point & shoot or are you open to a small DSLR or MILC? $400 is kind of in the "everything's the same" range for point & shoots - if that was my budget I'd just use my smartphone since the quality is the same if not better. For another $50 you can buy a full blown entry level DSLR that is 1000 times better, unless the size/style is a deal breaker for the gift recipient. $649 buys you a DSLR with 2 lens kit, bag, memory card bundle, etc. $499 gets you a Sony A5100 with lens (MILC). The value you're getting there compared to a similarly priced P&S is off the charts. All the decent point & shoots worth buying (i.e. would be better than a smartphone) are $700+. If the recipient doesn't have a smartphone and just wants a small P&S, anything will do and you don't need to spend $400, such as this: http://www.thecamerastore.com/9600-Canon-Powershot-Elph-190-IS.aspx or if they need lots of zoom, something like this: http://www.thecamerastore.com/10318-Canon-Powershot-SX620-HS.aspx

It's kind of a weird market right now. Smartphones have almost entirely killed off the need for small sensor entry level P&S cameras, and all the large sensor P&S cameras worth buying are more expensive than entry level DSLRs and still not that good until you get into the $800-$1000+ range :nut:

What do they take pictures of? Maybe that's a better question.

[rizfarmer]

Very helpful. Sounds like I'm looking for a small dslr or milc. I'm not familiar with milc cameras. I don't mind bumping the budget a bit but don't really want to go far beyond $500. She just wants a camera, no particular use, but I realize how good iPhone cameras are so I'm not going to bother blowing a few hundred on a camera no better than a cell phone.

The compactness of the Sony A5100 seems kind of appealing, how are milc cameras for durability compared to dslr? At 500 bucks any small dslr's I should consider?

[Mitsu3000gt]

MILC cameras are mirrorless, so they lack the mirror box that a DSLR has. It makes the bodies shallower front-to-back, but there are other performance and ergonomic tradeoffs. A casual shooter probably won't care too much either way.

Best deals I have seen closest to your price range is a Canon T6 w/18-55 lens for $449 (London Drugs Black Friday flyer) and Best Buy has the A5100 with 16-50mm lens for $499 (Black Friday Flyer). This way you can get something way better than a P&S but close to your budget. These are definitely larger than a P&S though, so you would know best whether or not the gift recipient would be OK with that, but you are getting far more camera for the dollar.

[Danish]

My wife had a Cannon Rebel T2i DSLR and it was a great camera, I recently bought a Rebel T6 from Visions and echo Mitsu's comments above. They've got a killer deal if this camera sounds good for you:

https://www.visions.ca/catalogue/category/Details.aspx?categoryId=0&productId=38927&sku=PKG001501

[schurchill39]

Just to hijack this a little bit because it sounds like OP and I are on the same page. What would beyond do if we upped the budget to around $600?

That seems to cover a bit of a bigger spread of mirrorless camera + lens combos. The Sony a5100 and the Canon EOS M10 are within that range as is Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II.

[Mitsu3000gt]

If I were you I would wait for Boxing Day, possibly up the budget to ~$699, and grab one of the DSLR deals (I think you could get a Nikon D3400 with 2 lens kit for $699 or a D5300 with 1 lens for $699, Canon T6 with lens for $449 - something along those lines). The deals will all be exactly the same as Black Friday if the last 2-3 years are any indication. That will get you the most camera for the dollar unless you are looking for something more specific.

The Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II, other than having an unnecessarily long name, is a micro four thirds camera which means it has a smaller sensor than most of the other cameras discussed here. It is smaller than the APS-C sensor found in most entry level DSLRs and Sony/Canon mirrorless. The camera also only has contrast-detect AF, and it's not great for anything that moves. For casual shots here & there though, it would be just fine. It has in-body image stabilization as well which works with any lens.

The EOS M10 in my opinion is a hard pass. It has almost no external control, a dated sensor, awful autofocus, tiny buffer, slow FPS, and no viewfinder. Again it's fine for casual snaps or for someone who doesn't really care too much about photography though. Image quality is still a lot better than the small sensor point & shoots. It's a very basic camera that does the bare minimum in most categories.

The other thing I suggest you do is make sure you actually want a mirrorless camera. I'd head down to the camera store and play with a few mirrorless cams, and a few entry level DSLRs just to get the feel of size, viewfinders, etc. I personally cannot stand electronic viewfinders - I was playing with Sony's $6000 A9 for a while the other day and it gave me the impression of a toy while I looked through the viewfinder that immediately reminded me of a 1980's CRT Television. Other's don't mind them or aren't as picky, so I think you should make that decision for yourself.

That price range is the hardest to shop in. Everything kind of overlaps - entry level DSLRS, entry level Mirrorless, and mid-range small sensor P&S. $1000-$1500 or so is the sweet spot for bang for the buck.

I'd also look at refurbs, something like this is actually a really good deal right now for a beginner/intermediate camera and should carry a 90 day warranty:

https://www.henrys.com/93398-REFURBISHED-NIKON-D5300-BLACK-W-18-55MM-VR-II-1-BX.aspx

[schurchill39]

I can't speak for OP but I guess I had never looked into DSLR cameras because it seemed a little much for entry level photography where most of my pictures would be of our soon to be newborn. But maybe for the price of a refurbed unit I should be reconsidering it.

Hey OP, what did you end up doing?

[FixedGear]

I wanted a mirrorless for taking into remote field sites, grabbed an olympus e-m10 mark III (with a couple of lenses) after some pretty thorough research. It's not perfect and mitsu pointed out some drawbacks of the previous gen model, but for me it seemed to be the best value for < $1k usd mirrorless cameras. It's supposed to arrive on Wednesday and I'll try to remember to update this thread with my impressions.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I can't speak for OP but I guess I had never looked into DSLR cameras because it seemed a little much for entry level photography where most of my pictures would be of our soon to be newborn. But maybe for the price of a refurbed unit I should be reconsidering it.


They are great even if you just leave them in auto mode. If you ever want to do more than that, it's there for you too. Tons of people have entry level DSLRs with kit lenses that never leave Auto mode and are basically just really, really good P&S cameras haha. In fact Nikon/Canon make most of their money from the entry level DSLR segment - in Nikon's case it's around 80-85% of their profits. That refurb for $579 is actually a really good deal right now. Nothing in the P&S realm or mirrorless will be able to touch it for the price. As an added bonus, when your son grows up a bit and starts to become a moving target, you will still be able to take good pictures of him :thumbsup:

[rizfarmer]

Just to hijack this a little bit because it sounds like OP and I are on the same page. What would beyond do if we upped the budget to around $600?

That seems to cover a bit of a bigger spread of mirrorless camera + lens combos. The Sony a5100 and the Canon EOS M10 are within that range as is Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II.


The Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II, other than having an unnecessarily long name, is a micro four thirds camera which means it has a smaller sensor than most of the other cameras discussed here. It is smaller than the APS-C sensor found in most entry level DSLRs and Sony/Canon mirrorless. The camera also only has contrast-detect AF, and it's not great for anything that moves. For casual shots here & there though, it would be just fine. It has in-body image stabilization as well which works with any lens.

The EOS M10 in my opinion is a hard pass. It has almost no external control, a dated sensor, awful autofocus, tiny buffer, slow FPS, and no viewfinder. Again it's fine for casual snaps or for someone who doesn't really care too much about photography though. Image quality is still a lot better than the small sensor point & shoots. It's a very basic camera that does the bare minimum in most categories.

The other thing I suggest you do is make sure you actually want a mirrorless camera. I'd head down to the camera store and play with a few mirrorless cams, and a few entry level DSLRs......


I cross shopped all the entry level mirrorless cams fairly intensely for a couple days and found exactly what Mitsu said, everything overlaps at $600, then I went and actually tried a few out. I determined mirrorless was the way to go because they are cool and compact compared to most DSLRs but still superior to an iPhone cam.

Didn’t get to try the Panasonic DC-GX850 or Fuji X-A10 but all the comparos you can read out there, these two get beat out by the EM10 MKII. I actually found the Nikon 1J5 and EOS M10 to be fairly intuitive with decent responsive screens but ultimately lacking the technical specs like Mitsu said.

Then I struggled a bit with whether I wanted a dedicated viewfinder, but that would generally require upping the budget closer to a grand.

I snagged the sony a5100 kit at Bestbuy on bf for 499. i love buying gifts like this for my girlfriend, she gets a “pro” looking camera (she would have thought the Olympus was butt ugly) and the a5100 gives her [me] a decent runway if we ever get more serious into photography with probably one of the better camera bodies in the entry level range, full APS-C sensor etc, plus I liked the power zoom.

[schurchill39]

I ended up picking up the Nikon D5300 that you posted below. Fingers crossed that its a hit on Christmas day!


If I were you I would wait for Boxing Day, possibly up the budget to ~$699, and grab one of the DSLR deals (I think you could get a Nikon D3400 with 2 lens kit for $699 or a D5300 with 1 lens for $699, Canon T6 with lens for $449 - something along those lines). The deals will all be exactly the same as Black Friday if the last 2-3 years are any indication. That will get you the most camera for the dollar unless you are looking for something more specific.

The Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II, other than having an unnecessarily long name, is a micro four thirds camera which means it has a smaller sensor than most of the other cameras discussed here. It is smaller than the APS-C sensor found in most entry level DSLRs and Sony/Canon mirrorless. The camera also only has contrast-detect AF, and it's not great for anything that moves. For casual shots here & there though, it would be just fine. It has in-body image stabilization as well which works with any lens.

The EOS M10 in my opinion is a hard pass. It has almost no external control, a dated sensor, awful autofocus, tiny buffer, slow FPS, and no viewfinder. Again it's fine for casual snaps or for someone who doesn't really care too much about photography though. Image quality is still a lot better than the small sensor point & shoots. It's a very basic camera that does the bare minimum in most categories.

The other thing I suggest you do is make sure you actually want a mirrorless camera. I'd head down to the camera store and play with a few mirrorless cams, and a few entry level DSLRs just to get the feel of size, viewfinders, etc. I personally cannot stand electronic viewfinders - I was playing with Sony's $6000 A9 for a while the other day and it gave me the impression of a toy while I looked through the viewfinder that immediately reminded me of a 1980's CRT Television. Other's don't mind them or aren't as picky, so I think you should make that decision for yourself.

That price range is the hardest to shop in. Everything kind of overlaps - entry level DSLRS, entry level Mirrorless, and mid-range small sensor P&S. $1000-$1500 or so is the sweet spot for bang for the buck.

I'd also look at refurbs, something like this is actually a really good deal right now for a beginner/intermediate camera and should carry a 90 day warranty:

https://www.henrys.com/93398-REFURBISHED-NIKON-D5300-BLACK-W-18-55MM-VR-II-1-BX.aspx

[Mitsu3000gt]

I ended up picking up the Nikon D5300 that you posted below. Fingers crossed that its a hit on Christmas day!

Awesome - hope it works out for you!