Are dealership shop supplies required by law?

[Mar]

I got some major service done at my favourite dealership today and was told it would be $650 for the service. Great. When I went to pay the bill, they told me they couldn't do the wheel alignment due to their equipment failing so they dropped the price accordingly and gave me the invoice. At the very end of the invoice is "Customer pay env/disposal fee for repair order." for $49.92. I complained about the fee on top of what I was told for the service and I was told it was for shop supplies, regardless that it's listed on my invoice as a disposal fee.

I was also told they're required by law to charge shop supplies on all jobs and that, according to a sign on the wall, it's 16% of all labour charges. Is it actually required by law? I tried finding it online, including the AMVIC site but couldn't find it.

The work done was:
- service 3: $377
- cabin filter: $25.5
- engine filter: $31.88
- brake cleaning: $10.95
- cleaner: $25.37
- HE enviro fee: $0
- EV enviro levy: $0
- synthetic oil: $54.4
- EV enviro levy: $0.4
- replace spark plugs: $204.45
- VI-400 inspection: $0
- passenger wiper blade: $16
- driver wiper blade: $20
- wash: $0
- env/disposal fee for repair order: $49.92

I don't see $50 worth of shop supplies here. I also paid the environment fee 5 times.

[KPHMPH]

They need to use things like rags, brake clean, paper towels and grease.... do you think they should front for that?

[Mar]

Not at all. Is it $50 worth of rags?

[speedog]

Well let's open up this can of worms as every business has consumables they'll use in the process of providing a service to their customers. Why then has the automotive repair business model evolved to be able to include chargebacks to their customers while most other businesses do or can not?

Your hair stylist/barber - what if they were to start including shop supplies in the bill they present to you? Your dog's groomer? The place I take my blades to get sharpened and repaired? Your dry cleaning place?

I do not question that an automotive repair place might use shop supplies but I do think the amount they charge is often inflated and is an easy cash grab.

[max_boost]

I have always wanted to charge a doc fee when I take orders lol

Awesome stuff Mar. It has been awhile haha

[Seth1968]

Well let's open up this can of worms as every business has consumables they'll use in the process of providing a service to their customers. Why then has the automotive repair business model evolved to be able to include chargebacks to their customers while most other businesses do or can not?



That's kind of like asking, "Why do food servers expect extra money, when all other service providers do not"?

It's because people are an odd sort:)

[RealJimmyJames]

Airline pricing model. Advertise one cost and charge another

[revelations]

Haha, this reminds me of the one time I went to CT Marlborough and asked for some takeoffs to be mounted on wheels (thats about the only thing I trusted them with) and they tried to charge me all kinds of BS fees, including "environment fee" and "disposal fee" on tires which I brought in .... LOL

[Mitsu3000gt]

7% of the total bill in shop fees isn't unreasonable, but I would agree that depending on what they're doing, it can be a disproportionate amount of the bill. Doesn't look too bad based on what they did, but dealerships always gouge.

TIL Velosters are expensive to maintain

[Hallowed_point]

Not at all. Is it $50 worth of rags?
How about next time, bring a tote bin containing gloves, liquid wrench, grease, anti seize and so on. I’ve gotBins full of all sorts of that stuff and I’m sure you do too. Tell the service advisor “no shop supplies fee needed good sir, I brought my own!” Much like how grocery stores charge 5 cents for plastic bags so the workaround is to bring your own.

[dirtsniffer]

16% of invoice? Damn. How would a synthetic oil change use more materials that a regular oil change? Sounds scammy

[KPHMPH]

My father in law owns a shop and people complained about him adding shop supplies to his bill. In turn if his bill was $100 with a $5 shop supply he turned it into a $0 shop supply and $105 bill. At the end of the day most companies either show it while charge it or hide it and charge it.

[Maxt]

In my industry, the shop supply charge doesn't go over well with customers. Some shops do it, but I also hear about it a lot as a customer complaint. Probably the reason is the vagueness of it. People don't mind paying marked up prices as long as they know what it is and what it's for. Getting a shop supplies bill for a wiper blade change and ecu flash makes the customer think they just got taken for extra percentage. As a shop, it's far wiser just to build it into your mark-up, or actually list what it was and have a charge per item. I usually list mine out in one invoice line or individually if it's a big customer and I can leave the extra of whatever I used with them.

[tirebob]

For most shops (I say most... Not all) it isn't about squeezing more money from you as much as it is about trying to accurately track where expenses are going. I personally do not bill shop supplies out, but absolutely it is factored into what my true final profit margins are at the end of the year and how much I finally make determines what my sales costs will be on specific things the next season. Some companies prefer to mine that information down per invoice and make ajustments with a bit more fine tuned information.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[killramos]

For most shops (I say most... Not all) it isn't about squeezing more money from you as much as it is about trying to accurately track where expenses are going. I personally do not bill shop supplies out, but absolutely it is factored into what my true final profit margins are at the end of the year and how much I finally make determines what my sales costs will be on specific things the next season. Some companies prefer to mine that information down per invoice and make ajustments with a bit more fine tuned information.

I don’t see how a shops accounting practices should affect how much I am charged for service.

What’s next, a supplementary shelf stocking fee at the grocery store to appropriate account for the minimum worker who put the items on the shelves?

Enviro levy’s are one thing when they are legislated political extra costs that have nothing to do with the shop. But rags and cleaner? Cost of doing business that can be accounted for behind the scenes.

Just seems to be a lazy, predatory, and out of date practice.

[tirebob]

I don’t see how a shops accounting practices should affect how much I am charged for service.

What’s next, a supplementary shelf stocking fee at the grocery store to appropriate account for the minimum worker who put the items on the shelves?

Enviro levy’s are one thing when they are legislated political extra costs that have nothing to do with the shop. But rags and cleaner? Cost of doing business that can be accounted for behind the scenes.

Just seems to be a lazy, predatory, and out of date practice.my point being you are paying for it no matter whether it is on the invoice or not. It is just on the invoice you are seeing the charge rather than it being built on on the back end.

Look, I agree that for the most part people do not like thinking they are being nickled and dimed hence the reason I do not bill shop supplies myself, but if you think you are not paying shop supplies everywhere that doesn't put them on the invoice you are wrong.

[killramos]

The issue is when you are quoted X for a service and later find out you are tacked on another half dozen such items that increase the price. See this all the time with promotional service specials etc. If they are included in the quoted price then idgaf thats the shops problem.

100 dollar Alignment*, with anther 50 dollars of fees and supplies that you find out about when you pick up the car.

Not a personal attack on you, but i think I can find these items on every single vehicle service invoice I have ever received across every type of maker or independent shop. In some way shape or form.

Its the same as how airlines got their pee pee's slapped a few years back for exactly the same practice :dunno:

[tirebob]

The issue is when you are quoted X for a service and later find out you are tacked on another half dozen such items that increase the price. See this all the time with promotional service specials etc

100 dollar Alignment*, with anther 50 dollars of fees and supplies that you find out about when you pick up the car.

Not a personal attack on you, but i think I can find these items on every single vehicle service invoice I have ever received across every type of maker or independent shop. In some way shape or form.

:dunno:
No you are absolutely correct in that. I hate "extra" charges after a quote price which is why I personally quote all in, out the door, driving away prices so there is zero guess work for the client, but even then it surprises me how many people still want and exact breakdown of what every little cost is. I always tell them no problem but to understand it does not matter the individual costs because you can only compare the cost on the completed job. So what if my labour is $5 more if my tire is $5 less or as in the case being discussed here, my labour is $20 more but I have no shop supplies added...

My point being people should always be asking what the drive away total is in a quote, and not the individual prices if they want to have more peace of mind.

I can't believe more shops just don't do this by rule. It saves so many headaches.and arguments! At the end of the day though, it is their business and if they do this and you still support them, you are just as much of the issue because you accept it and still pay their bill and they will continue to work this way.

[Seth1968]

The issue is when you are quoted X for a service and later find out you are tacked on another half dozen such items that increase the price.

:werd:

It's a shitty business tactic that needs to go away.

Funny thing is, the worst offenders (stealerships) seem to be getting the point. That is, I've been seeing the "all in" ads. Unless at time of payment it really means, "It's all in, but there is still an extra charge for x and x".

Or, how "unlimited" data isn't really unlimited. (Telus did that).

It's legal false advertising. It's rampant, pathetic, and of course generally tolerated.

[01RedDX]

.

[HiTempguy1]

For most shops (I say most... Not all) it isn't about squeezing more money from you as much as it is about trying to accurately track where expenses are going. I personally do not bill shop supplies out, but absolutely it is factored into what my true final profit margins are at the end of the year and how much I finally make determines what my sales costs will be on specific things the next season. Some companies prefer to mine that information down per invoice and make ajustments with a bit more fine tuned information.

Edit

Read more comments, you guys already discussed my issues :)

[AndyL]

I used to use shop supplies

It sure beat
38 5/16" x 2½" lags
76 #8 white head self drilling screws
1/12th of a can of lube
2 shop rags
1pr latex gloves
3 grey wire nuts

I could do a whole page invoice on the misc little stuff that wasn't included on any job. Shop supplies used correctly - went into a separate account for the purchase of the consumable items that I didn't want to inventory.

[top_speed]

The only thing they should be charging for is brake clean which the already charge doube, a tube of brake lube, anti seize last around more then 20 cars and most of the time if you are replacing pads is come with the anti seize. Some shop don't even supply the tech with gloves and what is liquid wrench?

[dirtsniffer]

Just had an oil change at capital chev . Listed price was $105. I paid 105+gst. Sounds good to me.

[Darkane]

I’d like to hear Gestalt’s viewpoint. He works in a shop that pays big bonuses.

+25% shop fees??

[max_boost]

Welcome to Porsche service where they will nickel and dime you for everything! lol

]

[KPHMPH]

Let me ask you the real question though....

Are you legally allowed to be forced to take your car there or can you do the work yourself ?

[rage2]

This is the least entertaining Mar thread ever.

[schocker]

This is the least entertaining Mar thread ever.
The real joke's in the maintenance schedule (Or add up his total bill $815.87) :rofl:
http://www.calgaryhyundai.com/service/maintenance-schedule.htm

[Mitsu3000gt]

The real joke's in the maintenance schedule (Or add up his total bill $815.87) :rofl:
http://www.calgaryhyundai.com/service/maintenance-schedule.htm

My thoughts exactly - that is just nuts for a presumably scheduled econo-box service.

[ExtraSlow]

Guys, would you skip recommend maintenance on a Ferrari? Veloster = same deal.

[Xtrema]

Not sure I'm allow to say it, I heard an outfit in Airdrie (I think they are in Calgary too but I have no word of mouth on that one) that do excellent work on typical scheduled maintenance work compared to dealers.

I believe they do all makes except Mercedes and BMW.

[klumsy_tumbler]

Welcome to Porsche service where they will nickel and dime you for everything! lol



I definitely didn't have the same experience haha. My last service was nowhere NEAR as far as bad as I was expecting.


Also, Mar, you could've saved yourself some money by just replacing your own wiper blades... they can't be that hard to do on a Veloster, can they???

[max_boost]

I definitely didn't have the same experience haha. My last service was nowhere NEAR as far as bad as I was expecting.


Also, Mar, you could've saved yourself some money by just replacing your own wiper blades... they can't be that hard to do on a Veloster, can they???

Chandie Fox - I liked her at Porsche

[Disoblige]

Chandie Fox - I liked her at Porsche
Yeah, Chandie is great.

[Mar]

This is the least entertaining Mar thread ever.
I know, my bad. I have other more interesting things I could post about like when I drove over a hole in the earth so huge it destroyed my wheel, my tire exploded and the City Of Calgary told me to get fucked. Or a surgeon I went to see that kicked me out of his practice when I told him I would prefer not to provide my telephone number. Or when I was recently diagnosed with ASD (is anyone surprised?). I promise there will be more hilarity later.


The real joke's in the maintenance schedule (Or add up his total bill $815.87) :rofl:
http://www.calgaryhyundai.com/service/maintenance-schedule.htm
If you expand the maintenance schedule at the bottom, you see the service I got. The pricing matches perfectly.


I spoke with the service manager last week and what a waste of my life that was. I'm impressed he called me at the next open of business but didn't really seem to understand the concept of highway robbery. Here is a breakdown of how the conversation went:

me - Why did your staff tell me this charge is required by law?
him - She must have been mistaken, that's not true.
me - How do you feel about your staff lying to customers?
him - She didn't lie.
me - She gave me information that wasn't true. That's the literal definition of lying.
him - No, she just gave you some misinformation. She didn't lie.

me - Okay, when I asked the receptionist where she got her information that it's required by law I asked if she could look it up on her computer and she said no, she would feel more comfortable if you did it instead. Your staff is too lazy to even help out a customer.
him - Yes, that's not her job.

me - Why is it listed on the invoice as an environmental fee instead of shop supplies?
him - Look, I'm not going to argue over symantics, it's shop supplies.

me - I checked the AMVIC website and it appears as if I'm entitled to ask for an itemized list of the shop supplies used for my service. Can I please have that?
him - No, I'm not going to do that.
me - You're required to.
him - Nope.

him - I took a look at your bill and agree that $50 is a little steep so I can give a 50% refund for you.
me - So you're going to lower your future shop supply cost by 50% for everyone?
him - No, it doesn't work like that.

me - I was told that if I had a problem with my bill I could leave my car there for Friday night, Saturday, Sunday and talk to you Monday morning about it. Why isn't there anyone there that can deal with this during business hours?
him - I get off at 4, I can't work that much
me - It's your department and your responsibility to make sure the customer is taken care of. Not to leave their car there for 3 days before they can talk to someone.

I forget some of the other things we discussed, it was a 45 minute call and I'm very impressed he hung on the whole time. Maybe I'm just old school and I treat my customers as priority one and I also take every piece of criticism to try and mould my business into everything it can be. Few things annoy me more than someone that just doesn't give enough of a shit about life to try as hard as they can to do the best job they can. I just couldn't get this guy to show me he cared about anything other than giving me $20 to go away.

[J-hop]

Man, I get that it’s shitty and it’s about the principle. But this seems like a hell of a lot of stress over $50.

You’re blacklisted for sure at that dealer. Going to want to take your business elsewhere anyways

[schocker]

If you expand the maintenance schedule at the bottom, you see the service I got. The pricing matches perfectly.

They show service 3 as $299 though, not the $377. Since service 3 includes the oil change you paid an extra $50 for synthetic and then they charged you for the engine air filter I think which would be included in service 3. Just checking the pricing from here: http://www.calgaryhyundai.com/service/maintenance-schedule.htm They also show a $700-1000 service "recommended" every ~24k which seems mighty pricey.

[Mar]

Man, I get that it’s shitty and it’s about the principle. But this seems like a hell of a lot of stress over $50.

You’re blacklisted for sure at that dealer. Going to want to take your business elsewhere anyways

I'm more concerned about what's best for us as a whole, not just myself. I want to change the system for the guy that comes along behind me, something that makes someone else's life better. I would fight the same for 10 cents because the reward isn't about me getting money, it's about helping an infinite number of people from going through the same process in the future and that is enough for me to continue.

Not once in our 45 minute conversation did this guy utter any sort of apology, not even an insincere one to make me go away. When I asked for an apology, he told me I didn't deserve one.

I once got a letter in the mail from TD bank thanking me for being a customer for 15 years but they no longer want me as a customer because I'm too difficult to deal with. They told me if I didn't empty out my accounts within a month, they would send me a cheque. I actually got fired as a customer, that's impressive. I think if I wrote a book of memoirs it would be a best seller. I'd call it Book Of MeMars.

- - - Updated - - -


They show service 3 as $299 though, not the $377. Since service 3 includes the oil change you paid an extra $50 for synthetic and then they charged you for the engine air filter I think which would be included in service 3. Just checking the pricing from here: http://www.calgaryhyundai.com/service/maintenance-schedule.htm They also show a $700-1000 service "recommended" every ~24k which seems mighty pricey.

Plus the $250 spark plug swap that only applies to the turbo model. I have no freaking idea how to swap plugs.
- service 3
- spark plugs
- wiper blades


Oh I forgot one more thing I have to mention when I was talking to the service manager. When I asked which kinds of things are included int he shop supplies he said soap for washing the car. SOAP, THEY CHARGE FOR SOAP! I literally laughed out loud on the phone, it took me by surprise. I wasn't expecting him to say soap.

[J-hop]

Comes with the territory unfortunately. That’s why I do all the maintenance on all but one of our vehicles. Dealerships are expensive and they tend to have these fees. It’s a (relatively) free market so you can pay them or shop elsewhere.

I’m shocked TD got rid of you. They pretty much beg 99.99% of their customers to use more services.

Your life sounds so stressful man

[schocker]

Plus the $250 spark plug swap that only applies to the turbo model. I have no freaking idea how to swap plugs.
- service 3
- spark plugs
- wiper blades
Oh I forgot one more thing I have to mention when I was talking to the service manager. When I asked which kinds of things are included int he shop supplies he said soap for washing the car. SOAP, THEY CHARGE FOR SOAP! I literally laughed out loud on the phone, it took me by surprise. I wasn't expecting him to say soap.
That was some expensive soap. I checked on acura and they actually charge $500 for spark plugs for my 4cyl! That includes checking of valve clearance though which I don't think they did for that price. Plugs are easy to do as they come pre-gapped (right?) and can be done with just a simple socket set. You shouldn't have to do those again for a while though. I would just follow what the manual says instead of what the dealer proposes. You should be able to handle the air and cabin filter also. Just buy on rock auto, buy a few since you have to pay for shipping anyways. Looks like cabin is around $18 and air filter is around $10. I just do these myself so I feel like I am doing car stuff and the dealer just deducts from my services.

[J-hop]

That was some expensive soap. I checked on acura and they actually charge $500 for spark plugs for my 4cyl! That includes checking of valve clearance though which I don't think they did for that price. Plugs are easy to do as they come pre-gapped (right?) and can be done with just a simple socket set. You shouldn't have to do those again for a while though. I would just follow what the manual says instead of what the dealer proposes. You should be able to handle the air and cabin filter also. Just buy on rock auto, buy a few since you have to pay for shipping anyways. Looks like cabin is around $18 and air filter is around $10. I just do these myself so I feel like I am doing car stuff and the dealer just deducts from my services.

Depends what you mean by pre-gapped. All plugs are pre-gapped to a specific spec for that make/model of plug, but it may not be gapped correctly for your engine (especially when you’re dealing with forced induction).

But yea gapping plugs is dead easy.

[TomcoPDR]

I once got a letter in the mail from TD bank thanking me for being a customer for 15 years but they no longer want me as a customer because I'm too difficult to deal with. They told me if I didn't empty out my accounts within a month, they would send me a cheque. I actually got fired as a customer, that's impressive. I think if I wrote a book of memoirs it would be a best seller. I'd call it Book Of MeMars.



Oh I forgot one more thing I have to mention when I was talking to the service manager. When I asked which kinds of things are included int he shop supplies he said soap for washing the car. SOAP, THEY CHARGE FOR SOAP! I literally laughed out loud on the phone, it took me by surprise. I wasn't expecting him to say soap.

That's impressive getting kicked outta TD, what were the issues?

I laughed at getting charged for soap, that's a bad one.

[Maxx Mazda]

Mar strikes me as the kinda guy that would get kicked out of a volunteer job at a soup kitchen...

[dj_rice]

Mar strikes me as the kinda guy that would get kicked out of a volunteer job at a soup kitchen...

:rofl::rofl:

[Mar]

That's impressive getting kicked outta TD, what were the issues?

I laughed at getting charged for soap, that's a bad one.

They didn't specify in the letter but just prior to this, my last visit involved me arguing with the branch manager for an hour that they are required by law to remove my telephone number from my account if I ask them to. I had been getting too much spam so I decided a few years ago that nobody gets my phone number for any reason. Their system actually doesn't allow them to save the profile without a phone number so they had to call head office, be on hold with them for 30 minutes and finally get some sort of system exception to occur where it removed the number. I got a printout of my profile for proof and shortly after I got the letter.

I ran into a problem a few years ago with Futureshop where I tried to return something and they brought to my attention that their return policy is clearly written that they require a phone number and home address for all returns. I ended up calling head office and telling them I was homeless, they arranged for me to go into the store the next day for my refund, no questions asked.

My life is one big headache sometimes. And it's my own fault.

[speedog]

They didn't specify in the letter but just prior to this, my last visit involved me arguing with the branch manager for an hour that they are required by law to remove my telephone number from my account if I ask them to. I had been getting too much spam so I decided a few years ago that nobody gets my phone number for any reason. Their system actually doesn't allow them to save the profile without a phone number so they had to call head office, be on hold with them for 30 minutes and finally get some sort of system exception to occur where it removed the number. I got a printout of my profile for proof and shortly after I got the letter.

I ran into a problem a few years ago with Futureshop where I tried to return something and they brought to my attention that their return policy is clearly written that they require a phone number and home address for all returns. I ended up calling head office and telling them I was homeless, they arranged for me to go into the store the next day for my refund, no questions asked.

My life is one big headache sometimes. And it's my own fault.

Have you always been like this, making things more difficult for yourself or have you evolved to this point?

[KPHMPH]

Cue the tin foil hat.

[03ozwhip]

They didn't specify in the letter but just prior to this, my last visit involved me arguing with the branch manager for an hour that they are required by law to remove my telephone number from my account if I ask them to. I had been getting too much spam so I decided a few years ago that nobody gets my phone number for any reason. Their system actually doesn't allow them to save the profile without a phone number so they had to call head office, be on hold with them for 30 minutes and finally get some sort of system exception to occur where it removed the number. I got a printout of my profile for proof and shortly after I got the letter.

I ran into a problem a few years ago with Futureshop where I tried to return something and they brought to my attention that their return policy is clearly written that they require a phone number and home address for all returns. I ended up calling head office and telling them I was homeless, they arranged for me to go into the store the next day for my refund, no questions asked.

My life is one big headache sometimes. And it's my own fault.

Why didn't you give a fake name and number? I would say it would make things 1000x easier

[ExtraSlow]

Use 403-555-5555. I use that one all the time.

[dj_rice]

I would like to see how Mar reacts to when cops pull him over asking for his licence and reg......

[bjstare]

They didn't specify in the letter but just prior to this, my last visit involved me arguing with the branch manager for an hour that they are required by law to remove my telephone number from my account if I ask them to. I had been getting too much spam so I decided a few years ago that nobody gets my phone number for any reason. Their system actually doesn't allow them to save the profile without a phone number so they had to call head office, be on hold with them for 30 minutes and finally get some sort of system exception to occur where it removed the number. I got a printout of my profile for proof and shortly after I got the letter.

I ran into a problem a few years ago with Futureshop where I tried to return something and they brought to my attention that their return policy is clearly written that they require a phone number and home address for all returns. I ended up calling head office and telling them I was homeless, they arranged for me to go into the store the next day for my refund, no questions asked.

My life is one big headache sometimes. And it's my own fault.

Well, at least you recognize that it's your own fault.

I wish I had enough spare time on my hands to just sit around and argue with customer service folks about stupid shit. I'd suggest getting another hobby, but you'd probably mess that up too.

[speedog]

Use 403-555-5555. I use that one all the time.

Easy to know that that one is fake, better to use TELUS' test numbers like 403-282-2307 or 403-282-2304 - the 2307 (2,300 hertz milliwatt) or 2304 (silent termination) should work for almost any 403-NXX number.

[Hallowed_point]

Seems like an odd/petty thing to get worked up about. I'd be more worried about authorizing every brake fluid/throttle body cleaning/injector service that they try to up sell.

[rx7boi]

As he said, he's autistic.

What do you guys expect? Typical social norms?

[bjstare]

As he said, he's autistic.

What do you guys expect? Typical social norms?

Wait, actually?

In that case, disregard my remark about doing this because he has spare time haha.

[sabad66]

of all companies out there that ask for a phone number, my bank would definitely be one that i would want them to have, no questions asked. You can opt out of their marketing calls and have them only call for important stuff (like potential fraud)

[ExtraSlow]

Is there a formal process to opt out? RBC used to call me a lot to "ensure my satisfaction" until I told the guy on the phone that every single phone call reduced my satisfaction and if I could expect multiple calls per month I would be switching banks. However, i still get a few per year.

Good tip on the "fake" phone numbers. I'm writing those down.

[rage2]

Mar should move to the EU. Their new privacy laws would be a dream for him. Anyone that has his personal information, he can request to have it removed, and it needs compliance within 30 days haha.

[max_boost]

Have you always been like this, making things more difficult for yourself or have you evolved to this point?

haha yea Mar is the type of person who would read all the legal fine print when opening up a basic savings account vs 99% of the population would just flip the page and sign away haha lol

[rx7boi]

Wait, actually?

In that case, disregard my remark about doing this because he has spare time haha.


Or a surgeon I went to see that kicked me out of his practice when I told him I would prefer not to provide my telephone number. Or when I was recently diagnosed with ASD

There you are, sir. Haha.

[Mar]

Why didn't you give a fake name and number? I would say it would make things 1000x easier
No, see this is the exact mentality I have a problem with, it is easier......for you. Your suggestion simply solves the problem for you but gives everyone else the middle finger. My suggestion, which wastes a huge amount of my time, is hopefully beneficial to a much larger group of people coming through the system behind me that won't run into this problem. If I can get a single dealership to quit running this scam, then it's going to save thousands of dollars for people, or it's at least going to make them more aware of what's happening and their options for going elsewhere in the future. Unfortunately this time I just wasted my time and nothing happened, can't win them all.


Is there a formal process to opt out? RBC used to call me a lot to "ensure my satisfaction" until I told the guy on the phone that every single phone call reduced my satisfaction and if I could expect multiple calls per month I would be switching banks. However, i still get a few per year.

Good tip on the "fake" phone numbers. I'm writing those down.
RBC used to call me all the time when I was with them, they kicked me out too. They used to ask me, "What would you do if you had an extra $5000 to spend?" My first reply was always, "I'd do the same thing I do with the rest of my money, hookers and blow." I stopped getting their calls after that, the best response I got was from some girl that immediately sputtered, "EWWWWWWWW!!!!!!"


Mar should move to the EU. Their new privacy laws would be a dream for him. Anyone that has his personal information, he can request to have it removed, and it needs compliance within 30 days haha.
No way, Microsoft was accused of having a monopoly on web browsers since they only ship their operating system with Internet Explorer. They were forced to ship it without a browser so, I'm assuming, the only way to get a browser on a new computer in Europe is to use FTP. Crazy Europeans. Also London = surveillance hell, I don't even let people take my photo. I once worked at a company that wanted to go out for lunch and do candid photos for the marketing on their website until I refused to release my photo. I worked there for another week after that. But then the board of directors crashed their stock, buying out the executive team's $12,000,000 in stock options for $200,000 and dismantling the company so it was a happy ending.


haha yea Mar is the type of person who would read all the legal fine print when opening up a basic savings account vs 99% of the population would just flip the page and sign away haha lol
I've been told many times I'm the first person they have ever known to read an entire document start to finish, they usually point to the signature line thinking I can't find it or something. When I applied for a new account after getting fired from TD, I had to read all the documentation and when the guy handed it to me I asked him how the USA can run on a Declaration Of Independence that's a single page, yet an application for electronic currency storage can be 13 pages. He looked at me as if I had an extra chromosome.


There you are, sir. Haha.
More likely asperger's, but yes. I have to set up a test in the new year but it's hard to find a psychologist that will test adults. It took dating a doctor to figure this out.

[HiTempguy1]

This Mar is much better than the old one, entertaining, but just the right amount of crazy.

Nothing he has said has been outlandish, good on you Mar for sticking to your principles :thumbsup:

There are people on Beyond who waited hours upon hours on hold to save $30/month on their cellphone bills. What Mar does with his time is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[Hallowed_point]

This Mar is much better than the old one, entertaining, but just the right amount of crazy.

Nothing he has said has been outlandish, good on you Mar for sticking to your principles :thumbsup:

There are people on Beyond who waited hours upon hours on hold to save $30/month on their cellphone bills. What Mar does with his time is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

True. I'd say just find an indy and skip dealers as they play so many games.

[revelations]

I once got a letter in the mail from TD bank thanking me for being a customer for 15 years but they no longer want me as a customer because I'm too difficult to deal with. They told me if I didn't empty out my accounts within a month, they would send me a cheque. I actually got fired as a customer, that's impressive. I think if I wrote a book of memoirs it would be a best seller. I'd call it Book Of MeMars.




Now THATS impressive.

[ExtraSlow]

Absolutely you should be working with an independent shop. Forget shop supplies, the rest of that invoice is atrocious and many of those items are absolutely not required.

[max_boost]

Absolutely you should be working with an independent shop. Forget shop supplies, the rest of that invoice is atrocious and many of those items are absolutely not required.

I love independent shops for that reason. Cash deals too!