Driving Tesla in winter cold conditions

[Nebor]

Hi all !

Thinking of electric vehicle, Tesla in particular.
How is it driving in real Alberta winter conditions ? Holding a charge ? Driving less distance than in summer ?

Thanks !

[Mitsu3000gt]

I wondered how they did in -30 temps as well, since that is hell on batteries, but I was told they have battery warmers.

[Nebor]

If they do then those warmers must be eating up the same battery energy, which in turn should have reduce the overall charge. I'm really interested, since none of my friends could really answer to that.
this is a topic I'm somewhat skeptical about. if it all worth it to get an electric vehicle.

[Seth1968]

I'm really interested, since none of my friends could really answer to that.
this is a topic I'm somewhat skeptical about. if it all worth it to get an electric vehicle.

I would eat such friends. /end thread troll.

[J-hop]

If they do then those warmers must be eating up the same battery energy, which in turn should have reduce the overall charge. I'm really interested, since none of my friends could really answer to that.
this is a topic I'm somewhat skeptical about. if it all worth it to get an electric vehicle.

Not only battery warmers but people warmers too. I think a car mag recently printed a cross American tour, they had to drive the whole way with no cabin heat as it decreased the range too much.

[Xtrema]

https://youtu.be/CGtts3K_Rdg


https://youtu.be/hvv0PegLIZE

Rule of thumb, treat your EV range to be 1/2 in winter. Charge accordingly.

Also people usually only charged to 80% full except for long trips to preserve life of battery pack.

There will be temperature control for battery to keep it in -10C to 30C range. Warm and cooled. Battery life suffers outside of this range. When you supercharge your Tesla, it's fine in Winter but in summer, it will heat up to 44c and air conditioner will join in to keep it cool.

[black300]

I heard also the range is 1/2 in winter, a friend borrowed a Tesla Model X back end of December 2017/January 2018 for a week or so.

[rage2]

1/2 range loss in cold weather is normal, but it rarely matters unless you need to drive 200km daily regularly. When you get home you’re charging anyways at night so you’re topped up. Long distance trips are more challenging.

As explained above, range loss is from powering heaters inside the car as well as batteries.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Xtrema]

Probably don't go with Tesla either; financially they probably won't make it through the year and there goes your warranty whenever that happens

But you get a collector car!

[Sugarphreak]

...

[VWEvo]

Perhaps as an actual Tesla owner I can chime in. There is a loss of range in colder climates, I don’t think it is half unless it’s super cold (-30) which isn’t really all that often. Even then, for city that still isn’t an issue. As for driving in the winter, it’s easily the best winter car I’ve ever driven. You notice a huge difference with the center of gravity so low how incredibly well it handles in snow and ice. Our Model X with decent winter tires easily beats anything I’ve owned. Over the last 15 years I’ve owned 22 various vehicles so I can say that statement with reasonable experience.

[VWEvo]

Probably don't go with Tesla either; financially they probably won't make it through the year and there goes your warranty whenever that happens

Blah blah blah, you’ve been saying that for years now. The stock actually went up $11/share today. But I guess you must be right and millions of investors dead wrong.

[Nebor]

Perhaps as an actual Tesla owner I can chime in. There is a loss of range in colder climates, I don’t think it is half unless it’s super cold (-30) which isn’t really all that often. Even theni for city that still isn’t an issue. As for driving in the winter, it’s easily the best winter car I’ve ever driven. You notice a huge difference with the center of gravity so low how incredibly well it handles in snow and ice. Our Model X with decent winter tires easily beats anything I’ve owned. Over the last 15 years I’ve owned 22 various vehicles so I can say that statement with reasonable experience.

Agree, for the city daily drive it is actually nice. My wife really likes and want it.
Though, I doubt I could make a trip Edmonton-Jasper and back. That is holding me up from making that purchase decision.
Looks we will have one more car than a replacement to existing SUV.

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nice videos, thanks !
I wish I could live in Calgary closer to Sunshine -)

[ExtraSlow]

How's the torque at light throttle in slippery conditions? My only reference point is a Prius I drove at work and between the garbage low rolling resistance tires and the twitchy torque it was terrible in snow. Obviously snow tires and awd helps a lot.

Thanks for sharing.

[rage2]

Perhaps as an actual Tesla owner I can chime in. There is a loss of range in colder climates, I don’t think it is half unless it’s super cold (-30) which isn’t really all that often. Even then, for city that still isn’t an issue. As for driving in the winter, it’s easily the best winter car I’ve ever driven. You notice a huge difference with the center of gravity so low how incredibly well it handles in snow and ice. Our Model X with decent winter tires easily beats anything I’ve owned. Over the last 15 years I’ve owned 22 various vehicles so I can say that statement with reasonable experience.
You probably don't park outdoors much (and neither do I mostly), but any ideas how parking outside in the winter affects range? Say -15C weather, what's the range impact over 3 hours (ie dinner at resturant) or overnight?

[J-hop]

How's the torque at light throttle in slippery conditions? My only reference point is a Prius I drove at work and between the garbage low rolling resistance tires and the twitchy torque it was terrible in snow. Obviously snow tires and awd helps a lot.

Thanks for sharing.

lol reminds me of that psycho that posted the viral video of how he was selling his Tesla because it was extremely dangerous in the snow.

Also said he goes through tires like crazy in the summer. Basically sounded like an idiot that punched it everywhere he went.

[ExtraSlow]

an idiot that punched it everywhere he went. That's me! But was wondering VWEvo's thoughts. He's probably smarter and a better driver than me.

[J-hop]

That's me! But was wondering VWEvo's thoughts. He's probably smarter and a better driver than me.

Haha yea sorry that might have come across insulting towards you but wasn’t meant to be, this guy sounded like he was going to try to sue Tesla for ‘trying to kill him’

[VWEvo]

That's me! But was wondering VWEvo's thoughts. He's probably smarter and a better driver than me.

Honestly, I haven't had anything like that happen. Its as simple as just don't pin the gas pedal down, just be a little easy on it. Mind you , I don't have a "P" model, but the torque only really shows itself when you lay hard on the pedal.

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You probably don't park outdoors much (and neither do I mostly), but any ideas how parking outside in the winter affects range? Say -15C weather, what's the range impact over 3 hours (ie dinner at resturant) or overnight?

During the day, the car is parked outside all the time. There is definately a decline in range, but honestly its so weird, not enough that I actually notice it. Plus, I love shopping at CrossIron Mills where there is Primo parking and free supercharging!!!

[Hallowed_point]

Tesla's are basically the car for a rich snooty dude who didn't want to step down to a prius. But can still claim he's saving the environment*.



(* way faster/more expensive than any of my cars :devil:)

[roopi]

Probably don't go with Tesla either; financially they probably won't make it through the year and there goes your warranty whenever that happens

:rofl: If you say something enough times it becomes true right?

[blownz]

So I was just talking about this with someone I know that owns a 75D. During the last 2 months with the really cold weather in Edmonton he did some testing, and while far from scientific, can give you a bit of an idea on the extreme cold and battery life.

1. From his warm garage to a warm parkade downtown (just under 20km and takes about 25 min) - doing that in around -20 only cuts his ideal range about 15%.

2. From his warm garage (overnight) to a cold parking lot on the west end (just under 25km and takes about 25 min) and sitting there cold for 8-10 hours in around -20-25 cuts his range by close to 50% - but that is only in the extreme cold

Now he is constantly back and forth between those two locations and his weeks are seldom ever identical and the weather obviously isn't and there are constantly other side trips, but this shows that the sitting in the cold seems to be significantly worse than just driving in the cold.

[C4S]

Um .. it may be difference ..

But for my Hybrid, from ~ 7.5L/100 to 8L/100 during warm/warm day (say 0c) to 9L-9.5L/100km during cold cold day ... so easy 20% difference! (well.. some warm up time ..) So may well drive ICE when -25c and colder ..

[killramos]

My mustang I have been driving this winter goes from ~11l/100 city to reliably over 17 when it’s cold.

Not like this isn’t a phenomenon that ice cars are exempt from is all I’m saying :dunno:

It’s all a moot point really, it’s feb 2018 and I still couldn’t go out and buy a pseudo reasonably priced Tesla if I wanted to. Being a Tesla owner is a lifestyle and an experience at this point and is far from being ready for everyone for lots of reasons. Cold weather range seems like a very minor reason in the grand scheme.

[Hallowed_point]

My mustang I have been driving this winter goes from ~11l/100 city to reliably over 17 when it’s cold.

Not like this isn’t a phenomenon that affects ice cars is all I’m saying :dunno:

But how much gas do you save when it's not running? :angel:

[Xtrema]

You probably don't park outdoors much (and neither do I mostly), but any ideas how parking outside in the winter affects range? Say -15C weather, what's the range impact over 3 hours (ie dinner at resturant) or overnight?

I remember reading someone in Ottawa lost 15km of range in 6hr in -24C. Say it's 400km range of 75D, 3% of battery is used for warming it up for 6hrs. So if it's linear, 12% loss per day for a 75D.

But I would say winter driving, you may want to plugged it in if possible (even 120v) so you can leach from it to preheat on the grid before driving away.


Um .. it may be difference ..

But for my Hybrid, from ~ 7.5L/100 to 8L/100 during warm/warm day (say 0c) to 9L-9.5L/100km during cold cold day ... so easy 20% difference! (well.. some warm up time ..) So may well drive ICE when -25c and colder ..

I think the mileage increase in winter is mostly because traffic sux. 0mpg at idle.

And for EVs, since there is no waste heat to warm the carbin, extra energy has to come off the battery.

[Nebor]

Good to know what is really is.
otherwise you get information on the range under 'best conditions'
Besides Tesla, any one has an experience with other electric cars ? would they be similar to that winter conditions ?
Regards,
Nebor

[ExtraSlow]

Not really anything, but figured this crowd would be interested. Saw a BMW i8 at the university this week. Looked good beside a Leaf and an XC90 T8 at the charging station

[Nebor]

watching this closely, my main dilemma if I can have just one vehicle being EV or it has to be an additional vehicle ? i get it, it is great, but then i have to worry about 2 stalls, 8 winter tires, everything is essentially doubles. And I do long trips to the mountains fairly frequently. Still thinking.

[VWEvo]

watching this closely, my main dilemma if I can have just one vehicle being EV or it has to be an additional vehicle ? i get it, it is great, but then i have to worry about 2 stalls, 8 winter tires, everything is essentially doubles. And I do long trips to the mountains fairly frequently. Still thinking.
If your heading to the mountain, (ie. West), then you have nothing to worry about. I have plenty of friends that have only the Tesla as their only vehicle and there is zero issue. Highway 1 has plenty of supercharging stations with more on their way. Make sure you get a 100D, then range wont be an issue.

[Xtrema]

watching this closely, my main dilemma if I can have just one vehicle being EV or it has to be an additional vehicle ? i get it, it is great, but then i have to worry about 2 stalls, 8 winter tires, everything is essentially doubles. And I do long trips to the mountains fairly frequently. Still thinking.

For day trips, Canmore Supercharger will give you all the range you need. And if you do drive more than 200km away from Canmore Supercharger, north or south, just make sure your destination has charging station that you can plug in over night.

https://www.pluglesspower.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Tesla-charge-times.jpg

When you supercharge, don't worry about fully charging it. While it will give you 170 miles in 30min, the next 100 miles will take almost 1hr. Once battery hit 80%, charge rate slows. If you have enough juice to get to the next Supercharger or your destination charger, just leave.

If you are leaving the city, Tesla is probably the only game in town because of the Superchargers availability and longer range models. All other EVs, plugshare is your friend. Most EV charges at pretty much the same rate as Teslas at L1 or L2. L3 charging is where Tesla wins at 135kw while others tops out at 50kw (if you find the rate plug and charger).

Also, if your daily commute is more than 40km, chances are you need to invest on a 240V outlet in the garage or a L2 charger on top of that. 120V outlet just cannot replenish enough KWH in 8-10hrs.

[J-hop]

Probably too early but so they have any data on how much supercharging regularly reduces the lifespan of the battery?

[Nebor]

this is a great question, i did not even think of !
by the way, what is battery life span in Alberta, if some one lived through that ?

[Xtrema]

Probably too early to tell and too many variables.

Like for Leaf owner, early years are really bad and lose 50% range within a few years but new battery technology fixed it later years.

Same with Tesla. Battery management improved over the years that make reliability data kinda useless. But average poll of users is about 10% loss after 250,000km with some extreme cases of 15%.

Not sure age counts but you would have done quite a few supercharger cycles if your Tesla hit 250,000km now.