AMG GT Black Series confirmed for 2020

[Buster]

Pretty much an open secret at this point.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/628273/mercedes-amg-gt-black-series-confirmed-for-2020/


http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/03/confirmed-mercedes-amg-gt-black-series-arrive-2020.html

Looks like a power bump to 620-630 is the best guess. The DCT can't handle much more than that. Probably won't be a focus on the power though.

[killramos]

I don’t understand how the dct can continue being the weakest link in the power train for almost 10 years running...

All the R&D and they can’t beef it up?

How do other supercars manage?

Overall I think they are starting to stratify the GT line a bit more than is ideal. Can you even get a Gt-S in Canada anymore or is it just Gt-C? The website has confused me in this regard.

[Buster]

Are there any non-exotics running DCTs with big HP/TQ numbers?

[benyl]

What is brutal is that it probably cost $350k or more and still not have CarPlay Haha

[Buster]

I doubt it would cost $350. The GT platform is good, but even the GTR is starting to get into territory with lots of intersting and legit exotic competition. (Track times aside).

I think Mercedes has android auto (and carplay if you are still using a blackberry...errr iphone).

[killramos]

Are there any non-exotics running DCTs with big HP/TQ numbers?

The new M5 is up there.

But overall, an AMG GT Black Series is pretty damn exotic man, and this transmission is only used in their sports cars so it’s pretty apples to apples.

If this thing wants to run with the big boys it better bring the equipment?

Also can people with Android’s afford a black series amg? ;)

[Buster]

I think the new M5 is not DCT...just an auto.

The problem with the higher level GT variants is that they ultimately share a lot with the poverty spec ones. I love the 4.0 TT V8, but you can find it right up and down the range. If you get into an R8 or a 570 or something, you are then getting a more exclusive platform, mid-engine, etc. The GT on the low end is a no brainer when compared to similarly priced 911s etc.

[killramos]

Hmm didn’t realize the new M5 went slushbox considering the last one had dct. Too bad.

Still the GT is supposedly all AMG designed so that has some credibility. And the engine is sort of bespoke to the lineup with dry sump. I imagine this will get the new twin scroll turbos from the e and s.

I would still take the Mercedes over most exotics personally. I like the idea of standard Mercedes parts and service experience for a car I actually drive. Same reason I liked the sls.

[rage2]

I don’t understand how the dct can continue being the weakest link in the power train for almost 10 years running...

All the R&D and they can’t beef it up?
They don’t make their own DCTs in this segment. Not worth the money for such a small segment. They rely on Getrag DCT, same as Ferrari. McLaren and VAG uses Graziano DCTs. VAG and Mercedes only invests in DCTs for higher volume sellers, although Mercedes is more focused on refining their autos to perform more like DCTs as it offers much more low speed smoothness than DCT can ever manage.

Problem with DCT and big power is packaging, clutches aren’t exactly huge. Underground Racing upgrades these gearboxes to handle much more power, but they have a short lifespan that won’t come close to OEM requirements.

[Buster]

Trying to think of big power DCTs. Bugatti makes one that can handles big power...but I think they said it has the largest clutch currently manufactured for a passenger car. Mclaren has one in the 720s, but IIRC they make it themselves from the ground up.

[killramos]

Is the lifespan just a clutch overhaul every 20k then or something?

“Just”

[Buster]

Ya, I dont know if "Can't handle the power", means little bits of clutch flying everywhere all of a sudden, or if it means premature wear.

[killramos]

Haha totally. Regardless. People would be pissed even if it is just clutch overhaul within a year or 2.

Now a Mclaren? That’s just in there with the oil change :rofl:

[rage2]

McLarens all use Graziano gearboxes. Bugatti uses Ricardo gearboxes. Pretty sure the Bugatti transmissions are overhauled regularly as part of a $100k service or something stupid. :rofl:

Mercedes Project One has a custom built automatic “manual” transmission. Non DCT, no idea wtf it is.

[Buster]

For some reason I thought I read that McLaren built their own... Which was a surprise to everyone at the time.

I think a lot of the big house guys use single clutch. Aventador Pagani etc. When someone says automatic manual I think single clutch.

[killramos]

McLarens all use Graziano gearboxes. Bugatti uses Ricardo gearboxes. Pretty sure the Bugatti transmissions are overhauled regularly as part of a $100k service or something stupid. :rofl:

Mercedes Project One has a custom built automatic “manual” transmission. Non DCT, no idea wtf it is.

Probably not far off the F1 transmission in that case?

[Maxx Mazda]

What’s the big deal with DCT gearboxes anyways? The modern automatics can shift almost as quick and hold more power.

[Buster]

Still doesnt have the same snap to it, and you feel a more direct connection through the drivetrain. Better rev mactching too it hink.

[killramos]

I found the difference between the zf8 and the Mercedes MCT to be pretty noticeable. Zf8 is fast, but you notice each shift. MCT you only really notice the kick in the back of the head from the exhaust. Power is continuous.

I think that’s like 200ms shifts vs 100?

Dct is sub 100, sometimes quite significantly though AMG historically hasn’t been great. The only dct AMG I have ever driven was Rage’s gla though as a note. And that thing certainly had its own way of kicking you in the head.

Overall on upsides they are all pretty continuous power. Though dct’s, smg’s, whatever you want to call the automated manuals are all pretty jerky from a start which is what AMG tries to avoid.

I think the main performance benefit going from MCT to dct in the Mercedes lineup is the weight and drivetrain loss savings.

I would love a dct for the racing pedigree bragging rights alone.

[Buster]

I found the difference between the zf8 and the Mercedes MCT to be pretty noticeable. Zf8 is fast, but you notice each shift. MCT you only really notice the kick in the back of the head from the exhaust. Power is continuous.

I think that’s like 200ms shifts vs 100?

Dct is sub 100, sometimes quite significantly though AMG historically hasn’t been great. The only dct AMG I have ever driven was Rage’s gla though as a note. And that thing certainly had its own way of kicking you in the head.

Overall on upsides they are all pretty continuous power. Though dct’s, smg’s, whatever you want to call the automated manuals are all pretty jerky from a start which is what AMG tries to avoid.

I think the main performance benefit going from MCT to dct in the Mercedes lineup is the weight and drivetrain loss savings.

I would love a dct for the racing pedigree bragging rights alone.

The DCT in the GLA and the DCT in the GTS are not even in the same galaxy in terms of performance speed, smothness, etc.

[Buster]

This is cool

https://vimeo.com/152288405

[killramos]

Very cool. I love those kind of videos.

Porsche does a bunch of good ones.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

They really don't

I have the ZF 8HP transmission in my Audi and it is a complete piece of shit when it comes to shifting when I'd like it to. I was trying to pull out from behind a slow semi truck the other day into traffic that was moving about ~40km/h faster. I had more than enough of a gap, but when I stomped it to pull out the transmission decided on some ridiculous gear that nearly got me rear-ended.

I fucking hate automatics
Time for you to get an EV. No need for shifting. I heard Tesla’s are pretty nice.

[Buster]

Time for you to get an EV. No need for shifting. I heard Tesla’s are pretty nice.

Gross

[killramos]

They really don't

I have the ZF 8HP transmission in my Audi and it is a complete piece of shit when it comes to shifting when I'd like it to. I was trying to pull out from behind a slow semi truck the other day into traffic that was moving about ~40km/h faster. I had more than enough of a gap, but when I stomped it to pull out the transmission decided on some ridiculous gear that nearly got me rear-ended.

I fucking hate automatics

Rage's 400 HP rule is no joke.

That being said, there really isnt anything wrong with the ZF8. Its just you lol.

[bjstare]

They really don't

I have the ZF 8HP transmission in my Audi and it is a complete piece of shit when it comes to shifting when I'd like it to. I was trying to pull out from behind a slow semi truck the other day into traffic that was moving about ~40km/h faster. I had more than enough of a gap, but when I stomped it to pull out the transmission decided on some ridiculous gear that nearly got me rear-ended.

I fucking hate automatics

Depends on the car. My ISF has an 8sp slushbox that works great for what it is, IMO. Shifts in 100ms in Manual/sport mode. When in full auto mode, it's silky smooth and doesn't take long at all to do the 8-3rd gear drop for passing. :dunno:

+1 for the 400hp rule. 400hp in an N/A engine isn't that fast at all at our elevation.