Anyone driven the Kia Stinger?

[ExtraSlow]

Have seen a few of these around, and had a look at the Auto Show this weekend. For $44k, it looks like a really nice package, decent value and good performance. Not my normal part of the market, but I know a bunch of you beyond folks are into the "four door coupe" style, so what do you say, is this car cool, lame, awesome, or what? I really like the look from the B-pillar forward, but like all cars of this type, the ass end looks weird. I'd prefer it as a wagon.

Pic, just because I like pics, not suspecting anyone hasn't seen one yet.
81503
81504

[killramos]

See I disagree, 44 seems like a lot to me.

For that money you can get a 6 litre Camaro pushing 500 hp?

It’s ok looking but not crazy good value.

[ExtraSlow]

Like I say, it's not my market, but it seems on paper more compelling than a nicely equipped Accord for $35k. Presumably someone on beyond has actually cross-shopped in this segment and can give a more informed answer than I can. Surprised there isn't a thread on this already, but I searched and didn't see one.

[A790]

It’s ok looking but not crazy good value.
Your opinion is contrary to numerous auto magazines/reviewers that feel the Stinger is something the German's ought to be worrying about.

Consider this: a full-load Audi A3 costs more than a full-load Stinger. Stinger has a nicer interior, more zoom zoom.

[killramos]

I just don’t find it very appealing.

44k is a lot of money for any car. A3’s being shit value doesn’t change that.

Overall I think bmw and Audi currently charge crack money for what their cars are.

[A790]

44k is a lot of money for any car. A3’s being shit value doesn’t change that.
I'm not advocating that the Stinger is great (I haven't driven one). I disagree with your sentiments re: value.

$44k is not a lot of money for a car these days. That kind of money gets you a base IS200t, Infiniti, etc. Shit, you can push a Jeep Cherokee to nearly $42k.

On the value play, Kia is doing here what they've always done: pack a bunch of shit into the car and charge way less than what a comparable package from Europe, Japan, or North America would charge. Textbook Kia.

[max_boost]

Looks legit.

[bjstare]

I like that this car exists. Will I buy one? Highly unlikely, but hopefully it encourages more offerings with good looks, good driving dynamics etc. The only reasons I won't consider this is because it will depreciate like a rock, and I have low confidence in build quality and reliability of it (may be unfounded, but it's the way I feel). Aside from that, it checks all the boxes from what I want in a car.

[ExtraSlow]

I think the rest of the KIA lineup is good reliability. Isn't it?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[bjstare]

An Audi A3 starts at ~32K CAD, did you mean the S3?

That starts at around ~47K CAD... which is in between the 44K CAD and 49K CAD trim Kia.

So using these two articles from C&D as a source:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-audi-s3-sedan-first-drive-review
http://www.motortrend.ca/en/news/2018-kia-stinger-gt-first-test-review/

0-60 Performance
S3: 4.4s
Kia: 4.8s

Quarter Mile:
S3: Standing ¼-mile: 12.9 sec
Kia: 13.3 sec @ 106.9 mph

Skidpad:
S3: 0.92g (the 2015 one, the updated one is probably better)
Kia: 0.85 g

Curb Weight:
S3: 3300 lb
Kia: 4,005 lb (52/48%)

City Mileage (From Audi & Kia)
S3: 10.6 l/100km
Kia: 12.7/100km

Highway Mileage (From Audi & Kia)
S3: 8.3 l/100km
Kia: 9.6 l/100km

Basically the Kia is fatter and slower. It is also considerably worse on fuel consumption, but you can put regular in it (decreases the horsepower a bit to 368hp though), so cost wise it comes out in the wash. Did I mention it is a 44K Kia? Hmmmmm

I also kind of doubt it is as nice inside as the virtual cockpit interior which is standard on the S3 now, but I haven't seen them both up close yet so I can't really comment on it too much at this point.

That comparison is ridiculous, the only similar thing about those cars is price. The S3 is smaller in every dimension (except height). The stinger is ~15 inches longer (both body and wheelbase). Cargo volume is double in the stinger than in the S3. If you want to compare the stinger to an Audi, use the A7. Much closer comparison as far as the numbers go. I bet less than 1% of the people spending $45k on a new car would cross shop the stinger with an S3.

[shakalaka]

My brother in law in San Fran picked one up a couple of weeks ago and swears by it. Every video and review I have watched and read can't stop raving about it. I don't think it's necessarily something that the big German's need to worry about per se but I definitely see it as one that catapults Kia onto the next level sort of. I see it pretty much same as my 440 Gran Coupe with M Performance I and II packages in terms of HP numbers etc and the S5 Sportback. It almost costs $30K or more less than both of those but provides similar usability and performance. I will be in SF next month for a few days and will get to drive it around and form actual personal opinions about it at that time.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Spent some time around it at the auto show on Thursday and Friday night. The switchgear and buttons are average in my opinion, some cheap plastics in places like the side seat panels. Panel gaps are alright, not the best not the worst for sure. Alloy spare wheel is a nice touch but it’s not full-size. Overall couldn’t ever see myself buying one over most “competitors” to that car.

[ExtraSlow]

I thought that comparison was odd.

- - - Updated - - -


Overall couldn’t ever see myself buying one over most “competitors” to that car.what do you see as close competitors to this product?

[craigcd]

My main concern would be residual. I think there would be better value in other brands even if this is a great car......

[MR2-3SGTE]

Saw this at the Calgary Auto Show just yesterday. Not a huge fan of the styling but the interior quality is a huge step up. If I had to choose a Korean luxury sports sedan though, I would lean more towards the Genesis G class sedans. They were far more impressive

[NissanFanBoy]

Kia?... Maybe I'll buy one when they depreciate to about 15Gs in a few years... Night not be a bad option.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I thought that comparison was odd.

- - - Updated - - -

what do you see as close competitors to this product?

A4, 3 series, C Class, S60, ATS.

[craigcd]

Kia?... Maybe I'll buy one when they depreciate to about 15Gs in a few years... Night not be a bad option.

Correct. Then 5K a few years later.....

[Shlade]

See I disagree, 44 seems like a lot to me.

For that money you can get a 6 litre Camaro pushing 500 hp?

It’s ok looking but not crazy good value.

Sure, but the demographic looking at this kind of car which is a sedan wouldn’t even consider a camaro...

[Tik-Tok]

Sure, but the demographic looking at this kind of car which is a sedan wouldn’t even consider a camaro...

I can't believe someone is actually making this comparison. Might as well cross-shop both to a Hayabusa while we're at it. Throw in a pair of Nike's too just for good measure.

[ExtraSlow]

Big heavy 4 door car. Yep, cross shop Camaro, amg-wagen, and also a Honda ruckus.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I can't believe someone is actually making this comparison. Might as well cross-shop both to a Hayabusa while we're at it. Throw in a pair of Nike's too just for good measure. Dont forget to compare a bus pass too.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[killramos]

My bad it’s obviously the best car ever.

You guys should buy one, any takers?

Who doesn’t want to drive a Kia sport sedan :rofl:

[Buster]

inb4: camaro and stinger serve the same purpose. if I don't need rear doors to fit my dogs in my camaro, then you don't need rear doors for your kids obviously.

[killramos]

inb4: camaro and stinger serve the same purpose. if I don't need rear doors to fit my dogs in my camaro, then you don't need rear doors for your kids obviously.

Dogs? I was thinking golf clubs.

[ExtraSlow]

In reality though, the Dodge Charger RT is the direct competitor in size, doors, price, and performance.
Maybe the GT AWD? Anyway, this seems like a fair comparison. Anyone driven both? Or even considered both? The charger sells well.

[Aleks]

A4, 3 series, C Class, S60, ATS.

It's bigger than these but priced like base versions of them. It's roughly the size of the A5/A6, I think at $45k it really is a bargain if you can get over the badge. A loaded Camry is ~$41k these days. My guess is Kia will move the price up especially on the GT limited model that's actually priced lower in Canada compared to USA, even before conversion.

[rage2]

Make a 400+ hp version so I can pass on the highway and I would definitely consider it.

I’ve liked this car since the concept came out.

[speedog]

One needs 400+ horsepower to pass on the highway?

[heavyD]

I think it represents solid value consider it's size and performance. I would be a little worried about the reliability considering the major issues Hyundai has had with the Theta II engines. They make the EJ257 look stout and reliable in comparison. Probably an okay car to lease short term but not a car I would want to be tied to long term. Will be a good bargain used in a few years I would imagine as depreciation will likely be steep.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[corsvette]

It's still a Kia....it'll depreciate like crazy. Wait a year and you'll be able to pick one up for half of retail. Heck, I think there's already cash on the hood of a new one.

[Kavy]

A buddy of mine picked one up and I have driven it. Feels really good to be honest, I also teased him relentlessly about it being a 50k Kia. He has his A4 avant(2013) parked in his driveway covered with snow since he bought it. He wanted a big car with lots of space decent tech and some power. I believe he’s happy and I thought the car was much better in person then on paper.

[rx7boi]

Overall I think bmw and Audi currently charge crack money for what their cars are.

I agree with this sentiment :rofl:

I sat in the LC500 this weekend and even though it's more of a touring car, I'd personally find it tough to shell out another 50k for a base RS7.

Some people think Lexus is pretty bland but that car was the tits.

[Rowdy]

Did well for itself for 10K less

https://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2018-audi-a5-sportback-vs-bmw-430i-gran-coupe-kia-stinger-comparison-test

[Tik-Tok]

My bad it’s obviously the best car ever.

You guys should buy one, any takers?

Who doesn’t want to drive a Kia sport sedan :rofl:

Not saying it's the best car ever, just saying you need to compare lemons to lemons. I'll probably take a look at buying one in 3 years, when they are worth about $20g.

[94boosted]

44K with AWD or RWD? What's a fully loaded one with tech actually selling for.

I'm not a fan of the looks of this thing and am excited for the Hyundai G70 with the same drivetrain.

[ExtraSlow]

A buddy of mine picked one up and I have driven it. Feels really good to be honest, I also teased him relentlessly about it being a 50k Kia. He has his A4 avant(2013) parked in his driveway covered with snow since he bought it. He wanted a big car with lots of space decent tech and some power. I believe he’s happy and I thought the car was much better in person then on paper.
Thanks Kavy, that'd good feedback.

[rage2]

I agree with this sentiment :rofl:

I sat in the LC500 this weekend and even though it's more of a touring car, I'd personally find it tough to shell out another 50k for a base RS7.

Some people think Lexus is pretty bland but that car was the tits.
I love the LC500, drives awesome out of the box, but to me it's about $15k overpriced for what you get. To me, it slots somewhere between an A7 and S7 but priced more like an S7. The LC500 doesn't really have much competition though, it sits in a weird segment between mid luxury (E coupe) and high end luxury (S coupe). Only competition I can think of is the 6 series. Have to ignore # of doors to compare it to CLS/A7.

Not sure where you're getting the difference between LC500 and RS7, there's a $19k gap in base price between the 2 cars, not $50k.

[mzdspd]

44K with AWD or RWD? What's a fully loaded one with tech actually selling for.

I'm not a fan of the looks of this thing and am excited for the Hyundai G70 with the same drivetrain.

In Canada there are only two models.. They are all AWD. You either have the GT for 44k or the GT Limited for 49k. They both have the same engine (365 hp turbo V6) which would compete with the 340GC or A5 sportback.

I think the brand snobs will never understand this car.. For anyone else on a budget or value oriented, this is a great car. It will be interesting to see how these hold value or if Kia will finally offer some decent lease deals.

[Xtrema]

It's a competent car. The drive is great.

The switch gear and interior quality is only a step behind Audi and on par with BMW. There are some cheap bits but they gotta cut somewhere.

Despite being $20K less than equally equipped C43/S4/340i, the lease payment is roughly the same due to bad residual and high rate. So they will continue to fight that perception to raise the residual for the leasing crowd.

But really its real competitor is S7/CLS53 if you based on size/power alone. So it's more like a $40K cheaper. :D

I think they will definitely poach Acura TLX buyers tho and may stop losing customers to Germans. But I doubt many existing German owners will switch to it.

[TurboMedic]

ITT: a bunch of brand snobs blinded by badges

[ercchry]

It’s not a value buy if cost of ownership is on par with cars 50% more expensive...

[Mitsu3000gt]

I don't mind this car but I prefer the look of the Genesis G70.

The interior quality is outstanding for the price, they have some of the Germans beat in that department and most if not all of the Japanese.

I see the problem with this car as twofold. 1) It's all new, so we don't know how it will stand up over time. Not many people want to gamble on a $50K Kia. 2) There is still such a strong stigma about a Kia (doesn't help that the name sounds like a children's toy), and nobody wants to tell their work buddies they just spend $50K on a kia in a world of BMW's and Audi's. For this reason, depreciation will probably be shit. Leases are expensive and rates are high. These will be phenomenal values on the used market in 2-3 years IMO. Once the market has a better perception of Kia (they are doing a hell of a job, but customers are stubborn), I would own one for sure. The only thing that would hold me back right now is resale - if I'm selling a used car, it doesn't matter what I think or what the reality is, the only thing that matters is the perception the general public has of it, which is sadly still pretty bad for Kia. People don't have a problem with Kia economy cars and SUVs, but trying to get into the luxury performance segment dominated by the Germans is a lot tougher.

[Buster]

ITT: a bunch of brand snobs blinded by badges

I think that's a bit unfair. You could make the same claim against the Stinger for people being "power snobs" compared to a 4-cyl accord. This is all just matters of taste.

[rage2]

Despite being $20K less than equally equipped C43/S4/340i, the lease payment is roughly the same due to bad residual and high rate. So they will continue to fight that perception to raise the residual for the leasing crowd.

But really its real competitor is S7/CLS53 if you based on size/power alone. So it's more like a $40K cheaper. :D
Is the Stinger that big? I thought it's competing against the 440i Grand Coupe and the S5 Sportback. CLS/S7 are massive cars. Stinger IIRC is longer than those cars because of the weird longer trunk.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Is the Stinger that big? I thought it's competing against the 440i Grand Coupe and the S5 Sportback. CLS/S7 are massive cars. Stinger IIRC is longer than those cars because of the weird longer trunk.

No it's not that big. You're right about it's target competitors. It's slightly longer than those cars you list but not as big as a CLS/S7, it's still 5-6" shorter. The Stinger looks big, and I actually googled this exact question at the car show because I wondered the same thing haha. It's not as big as one might think though.

[rx7boi]

I love the LC500, drives awesome out of the box, but to me it's about $15k overpriced for what you get. To me, it slots somewhere between an A7 and S7 but priced more like an S7. The LC500 doesn't really have much competition though, it sits in a weird segment between mid luxury (E coupe) and high end luxury (S coupe). Only competition I can think of is the 6 series. Have to ignore # of doors to compare it to CLS/A7.

Not sure where you're getting the difference between LC500 and RS7, there's a $19k gap in base price between the 2 cars, not $50k.

Ah sorry, you're totally right. That was a typo on my end and I had been browsing Audi's website recently with $20k-$30k equipment add ons for the $150k MSRP.

I think you're on the money about the LC500 being in a weird segment.

[Xtrema]

Is the Stinger that big? I thought it's competing against the 440i Grand Coupe and the S5 Sportback. CLS/S7 are massive cars. Stinger IIRC is longer than those cars because of the weird longer trunk.

Wheelbase of A7 and Stinger are identical at 2910 mm. S5 sportback is 100mm shorter.

[blownz]

So I want to jump into this thread because I am actually considering the Stinger for my next daily driver.

Now aside from the whole "Kia" part of it, here is why I think it is a good value as a daily driver family sedan:

Fully loaded 2018 Accord or Camry cost low $40's before tax.

Fully loaded 2018 TLX or Stinger cost low $50's before tax.

Fully loaded 2018 S5 Sportback or C43 cost high 70's before tax.

Now my ideal daily driver (something with room for a family of 4, comfortable on the highway, good for work, yet not so boring I want to slit my wrists because I spend an average of 1.5 hours a day in it) would be an S5 sportback or C43. However, for close to $80K when I put on about 28,000km a year and replace my windshield every 6-12 months, they are just too much money for me. Something like the Accord or Camry will have me wanting to slit my wrists, plus I personally like AWD considering the amount of driving I do and Edmonton's long winters.

Now the TLX A-Spec and the Stinger are closer in price to the Accord/Camry than the S5/C43, yet for the Stinger it really seems to perform and have the features closer to the S5/C43. It seems to be too good to completely ignore just because it is a Kia. Plus I really like the 5 door hatch part of it. I see the Stinger as 90% of an S5 Sportback for 70% of the price.

I head to Mexico in a few days but when I am back I plan on actually looking closely at the TLX and Stinger (and likely some other cars) as I want something new to enjoy for the spring/summer. A buddy of mine bought a 2018 S5 Sportback so he is interested in comparing it to the Stinger as well.

[austic]

The tough part it the brand. Its basically the value choice in the segment. My buddy was cross shopping it with the c43 and the question becomes is the 20K more worth it to get the benz or not.

[blownz]

The tough part it the brand. Its basically the value choice in the segment. My buddy was cross shopping it with the c43 and the question becomes is the 20K more worth it to get the benz or not.

Loaded vs loaded it is more like $25K and that is a lot of money just to be a brand whore. Now the brand is definitely worth something, but not that much imo.

[austic]

Loaded vs loaded it is more like $25K and that is a lot of money just to be a brand whore. Now the brand is definitely worth something, but not that much imo.

I agree which is why the stinger is such a great value in the segment. Have not driven one though so tough to say.

[eblend]

Top Gear did a review on the stinger last night. Gave it a thumbs down for being heavy and not as refined as the Germans. My issue would be the fact it would drop in value like mad, making buying a brand new one like a big waste.

[Mitsu3000gt]

So I want to jump into this thread because I am actually considering the Stinger for my next daily driver.

Now aside from the whole "Kia" part of it, here is why I think it is a good value as a daily driver family sedan:

Fully loaded 2018 Accord or Camry cost low $40's before tax.

Fully loaded 2018 TLX or Stinger cost low $50's before tax.

Fully loaded 2018 S5 Sportback or C43 cost high 70's before tax.

Now my ideal daily driver (something with room for a family of 4, comfortable on the highway, good for work, yet not so boring I want to slit my wrists because I spend an average of 1.5 hours a day in it) would be an S5 sportback or C43. However, for close to $80K when I put on about 28,000km a year and replace my windshield every 6-12 months, they are just too much money for me. Something like the Accord or Camry will have me wanting to slit my wrists, plus I personally like AWD considering the amount of driving I do and Edmonton's long winters.

Now the TLX A-Spec and the Stinger are closer in price to the Accord/Camry than the S5/C43, yet for the Stinger it really seems to perform and have the features closer to the S5/C43. It seems to be too good to completely ignore just because it is a Kia. Plus I really like the 5 door hatch part of it. I see the Stinger as 90% of an S5 Sportback for 70% of the price.

I head to Mexico in a few days but when I am back I plan on actually looking closely at the TLX and Stinger (and likely some other cars) as I want something new to enjoy for the spring/summer. A buddy of mine bought a 2018 S5 Sportback so he is interested in comparing it to the Stinger as well.

We recently finished shopping that exact price segment. You could get a brand new Infinity Q50 400 Red Sport for $48K for the last 10 months or so with the incentives Infiniti was running non-stop. Not sure how that has changed for 2018 but if that car interests you at all, it's worth a look to check the incentives. The Kia has a nicer interior and more impressive options though.

All the S4/C43's were out of budget unless you went down to 2015-ish, and then at least in the case of the Audi you lose too much tech compared to the 2017+ models and are buying into a 2010 design. A 2018 A4 Technic is in the mid $50K range and is only a hair slower than a Stinger (one of the magazines got it to do 5.0sec), stops 8ft shorter, achieves 0.7g more on the skidpad, and gets around 8L/100km. It also has DSG. Something to think about if you still want to go German - that's probably the best "regular" German sedan right now outside the performance versions.

The TLX was boring as hell. A great family car, but just so standard and regular, and you will probably miss the torque a lot of the turbocharged competition has in that price range.

The Stinger/G70 is phenomenal value. You just have to be comfortable with how much of that value you might lose over even a short time depending on how the market goes over the next several years, and that's currently unknown since it's brand new. That beyond member's Hyundai repair saga with a Genesis 5.0 ultimate also worried me - neither the dealer or Hyundai Canada had a clue how to solve his issues and I imagine the Stinger is even more complex.

[mzdspd]

It's still a Kia....it'll depreciate like crazy. Wait a year and you'll be able to pick one up for half of retail. Heck, I think there's already cash on the hood of a new one.

LOL I love how everyone only talks about Kia for depreciation and then nobody talks about BMW and how shitty their resale value is..

All of these cars will take a 60-70% depreciation bath in 5 years. The big difference is you will be paying 45-50k for a Kia Stinger or 60-70k for a BMW GC.

[mzdspd]

So I want to jump into this thread because I am actually considering the Stinger for my next daily driver.

Now aside from the whole "Kia" part of it, here is why I think it is a good value as a daily driver family sedan:
.


You could get a brand new Infinity Q50 400 Red Sport for $48K for the last 10 months or so with the incentives Infiniti was running non-stop. Not sure how that has changed for 2018 but if that car interests you at all, it's worth a look to check the incentives.

I also encourage you to test drive the Q50 Red Sport.. And then drive a Stinger GT and a Accord Sport 2.0T.. And then you will realize why the Q50 has so many incentives...

[94boosted]

LOL I love how everyone only talks about Kia for depreciation and then nobody talks about BMW and how shitty their resale value is..

All of these cars will take a 60-70% depreciation bath in 5 years. The big difference is you will be paying 45-50k for a Kia Stinger or 60-70k for a BMW GC.

You bring up a good point, not a single Hyundai or Kia product on either of these lists but BMW & MB aplenty

https://www.thestreet.com/slideshow/14247792/1/these-cars-lose-half-their-value-in-three-years.html
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cars-with-the-fastest-depreciation

[blownz]

We recently finished shopping that exact price segment. You could get a brand new Infinity Q50 400 Red Sport for $48K for the last 10 months or so with the incentives Infiniti was running non-stop. Not sure how that has changed for 2018 but if that car interests you at all, it's worth a look to check the incentives. The Kia has a nicer interior and more impressive options though.

All the S4/C43's were out of budget unless you went down to 2015-ish, and then at least in the case of the Audi you lose too much tech compared to the 2017+ models and are buying into a 2010 design. A 2018 A4 Technic is in the mid $50K range and is only a hair slower than a Stinger (one of the magazines got it to do 5.0sec), stops 8ft shorter, achieves 0.7g more on the skidpad, and gets around 8L/100km. It also has DSG. Something to think about if you still want to go German - that's probably the best "regular" German sedan right now outside the performance versions.

The TLX was boring as hell. A great family car, but just so standard and regular, and you will probably miss the torque a lot of the turbocharged competition has in that price range.

The Stinger/G70 is phenomenal value. You just have to be comfortable with how much of that value you might lose over even a short time depending on how the market goes over the next several years, and that's currently unknown since it's brand new. That beyond member's Hyundai repair saga with a Genesis 5.0 ultimate also worried me - neither the dealer or Hyundai Canada had a clue how to solve his issues and I imagine the Stinger is even more complex.

I will definitely look at the Q50 as well. I am not a fan of the interior as it hasn't changed in forever but the performance seems to be pretty good. I wasn't aware the incentives were so high so that would help.

Your comments on all of those cars is pretty much what I am thinking right now without having driven any of them. I really like the new look of the 2018 TLX A spec but think I will be unimpressed with the performance. A base A4 or A5 sportback is something I will look at as you are right, it is definitely an overachiever compared to any other 2L turbo out there.

G70 is another one I am hoping to look at although I am not sure when it will be at dealerships.

Thanks for the comments. *edit* - what did you end up going with?

Resale is always an issue, but like mzdspd mentioned, the German's lose a lot of value as well (I have owned 4 BMW's and can attest to this...).

[rage2]

LOL I love how everyone only talks about Kia for depreciation and then nobody talks about BMW and how shitty their resale value is..

All of these cars will take a 60-70% depreciation bath in 5 years. The big difference is you will be paying 45-50k for a Kia Stinger or 60-70k for a BMW GC.
The problem is that even Kia's depreciation financial models doesn't correlate to this at all, so with a low 50% residual for the Stinger while BMW/Merc sits in the high 50's on a 3 year lease, the difference in a lease closes the gap completely against the competition. Coupled with higher interest rates for Kia, it's pretty much the same TCO over 3 years to lease all 3 cars (comparing base) even with a $8-10k gap in actual pricing. From a buyer's perspective looking to lease, you're getting "$8-10k" more value for the same monthly payments.

Time will tell what the Stinger's actual depreciation curve looks like in a couple years.


I also encourage you to test drive the Q50 Red Sport.. And then drive a Stinger GT and a Accord Sport 2.0T.. And then you will realize why the Q50 has so many incentives...
Yup. The Q50 and Q60 RS 400 are some of the best looking cars in the segment, and is a blast to drive in a straight line. They're just brutal when trying to corner. Never have I driven a car with such ridiculous understeer in every single cornering situation. Such a massive gap between straight line and cornering performance which is insanely frustrating.

I considered a Q60 RS 400 after I sold the RC-F because of how cheap it was, but I would hate the car every day I owned it because of how unbalanced it is overall.

[mzdspd]

The problem is that even Kia's depreciation financial models doesn't correlate to this at all, so with a low 50% residual for the Stinger while BMW/Merc sits in the high 50's on a 3 year lease, the difference in a lease closes the gap completely against the competition. Coupled with higher interest rates for Kia, it's pretty much the same TCO over 3 years to lease all 3 cars (comparing base) even with a $8-10k gap in actual pricing. From a buyer's perspective looking to lease, you're getting "$8-10k" more value for the same monthly payments.

Time will tell what the Stinger's actual depreciation curve looks like in a couple years.


I definitely agree with your breakdown on leasing. Kia's have never been good to lease.

I think we can all agree that a 365hp RWD platform sedan for 44k is a great thing. I personally would not lease one but give it some time and kia will be pushing 0% on finance.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm one of those simple-minded folks that just buys vehicles. Presumably the Kia looks more attractive on a purchase basis if you plan on keeping it say five years. Although I'm sure it will still depreciate more over that time, and at some point you will sell it.

[rage2]

Kia's have never been good to lease.
Not true. When we cross shopped the Sportage a couple years ago, the residual and interest rate was actually quite competitive for a CUV. There's good lease deals to be had with every brand. Give it a couple years, I'll bet that the rates improve for the Stinger once Kia sees what true depreciation looks like on it.


I think we can all agree that a 365hp RWD platform sedan for 44k is a great thing. I personally would not lease one but give it some time and kia will be pushing 0% on finance.
Agreed. Definitely a game changer in the segment.

[ercchry]

I definitely agree with your breakdown on leasing. Kia's have never been good to lease.

I think we can all agree that a 365hp RWD platform sedan for 44k is a great thing. I personally would not lease one but give it some time and kia will be pushing 0% on finance.

They don’t pull lease residuals out of their asses though... finance or lease... you will eventually sell it and the same math applies

[gpomp]

Not true. When we cross shopped the Sportage a couple years ago, the residual and interest rate was actually quite competitive for a CUV. There's good lease deals to be had with every brand. Give it a couple years, I'll bet that the rates improve for the Stinger once Kia sees what true depreciation looks like on it.
Kia Soul leases out very well also.

[Kloubek]

Main thing I don't like about it is that I find that side marker in the rear (or whatever it is) looks *completely* out of place. In fact, I feel the design overall is decent but still kinda cheezy and very Kia. The latter would be expected I suppose, but for a car that is supposed to compete with the German market, it certainly doesn't look upscale to me.

[dirtsniffer]

a friend of mine has a genesis with the v8, great initially, good price, but has been such a pain in the ass reliability wise.
1. always in the shop
2. can't figure out issues
3. huge wait for parts once issue is determined.

For that, and for the reason I would have the same dealer experience as someone with a $20,000 car, I am out. But same problem as Cadillac and Lincoln in my books.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I also encourage you to test drive the Q50 Red Sport.. And then drive a Stinger GT and a Accord Sport 2.0T.. And then you will realize why the Q50 has so many incentives...

Driven them except the Accord 2.0T (tried but dealer didn't have any at the time). Did a 24 hour test drive in the Q50 RS in addition to several other long drives before that, probably have more time behind the wheel than most non-owners. The car needs to be set up properly, and it has no fewer than 9 different steering settings, for example, which nobody is going to even scratch the surface of in a normal test drive. The steer by wire didn't bother me at all once I had it set up where I liked it. Cornering was fine until you REALLY pushed it which most people never come close to. It was more than enough to have fun with in the city, but maybe not my first pick for a track. I had 3 complaints that would be unforgivable at $65K but are forgivable at $48: 1) Transmission isn't quite as good as the German competition, 2) Interior isn't as good as the German competition 3) It has a push-pedal E-brake that reminds of me of a crappy American car or mini van.

The reason it has incentives is they price it the same as Audi/BMW/MB and it's not quite in the same league except for power, and most people would rather have one of the Germans for the same money. It's a notch below those cars in most departments so they can't charge similar money for it.

If the Stinger/G70 had better residuals I would be all over that for a lease because I wouldn't have to worry about anything long-term or trying to sell it later.

[Xtrema]

I head to Mexico in a few days but when I am back I plan on actually looking closely at the TLX and Stinger (and likely some other cars) as I want something new to enjoy for the spring/summer. A buddy of mine bought a 2018 S5 Sportback so he is interested in comparing it to the Stinger as well.

Don't bother with TLX unless it's a screaming deal (like that $300 lease a year or so back).

The interior and infotainment is so outdated it's actually embarrassing. RDX Prototype was at the show and if that interior make it into production, Acura may actually have a fighting chance.


G70 is another one I am hoping to look at although I am not sure when it will be at dealerships.



I think the Genesis comes to you, you don't go to them. They don't want you to step foot into Hyundai dealership because that's how Genesis failed last time.

G70 is also a pleasant surprised at the show. But I'm 5'9" and I can't get out of the back seat. It's a tiny car. Feels more like a A3/CLA in size.


Main thing I don't like about it is that I find that side marker in the rear (or whatever it is) looks *completely* out of place. In fact, I feel the design overall is decent but still kinda cheezy and very Kia. The latter would be expected I suppose, but for a car that is supposed to compete with the German market, it certainly doesn't look upscale to me.

Red is the only color to get because of this. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

[blownz]

Don't bother with TLX unless it's a screaming deal (like that $300 lease a year or so back).

The interior and infotainment is so outdated it's actually embarrassing. RDX Prototype was at the show and if that interior make it into production, Acura may actually have a fighting chance.

I think the Genesis comes to you, you don't go to them. They don't want you to step foot into Hyundai dealership because that's how Genesis failed last time.

G70 is also a pleasant surprised at the show. But I'm 5'9" and I can't get out of the back seat. It's a tiny car. Feels more like a A3/CLA in size.


The interior of the TLX does seem dated for sure. I am glad to hear the G70 was at the Calgary show because then it should be at the Edmonton one next month. Did they have pricing on it yet?


So I just checked online lease prices and it is interesting as the Kia is $1000 cheaper cash price, but costs $100 a month more to lease due to lower residual and higher lease rate.

For interest sake:

2018 Stinger GT Limited $51,102.25, lease @3.99% with $1500 down is $836.15/month
2018 TLX A-Spec Elite $513,161.25, lease @1.9% with $1500 down is $732.44/month
2018 C43 $73,550 (assuming $2K freight/pdi as I didn't see it online), lease @ 2.9% with 1500 down is $1,053.57

Residual is 49.5% for the Stinger, 53% for the TLX, and 54% for the C43.

I have $1500 down as Acura had $1500 "lease support dollars" in their price as a special and I assume you can at least negotiate that much off the others although I have no idea on those amounts.

Leasing unfortunately for me is likely out with the ~28,000km I put on per year. The above leases are for 24k a year which is as high as the calculators go. I am excited to go to start looking next month. :thumbsup:

[rage2]

Anything over 20,000km/year is pretty much where most leases become not worth it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

The interior of the TLX does seem dated for sure. I am glad to hear the G70 was at the Calgary show because then it should be at the Edmonton one next month. Did they have pricing on it yet?


So I just checked online lease prices and it is interesting as the Kia is $1000 cheaper cash price, but costs $100 a month more to lease due to lower residual and higher lease rate.

For interest sake:

2018 Stinger GT Limited $51,102.25, lease @3.99% with $1500 down is $836.15/month
2018 TLX A-Spec Elite $513,161.25, lease @1.9% with $1500 down is $732.44/month
2018 C43 $73,550 (assuming $2K freight/pdi as I didn't see it online), lease @ 2.9% with 1500 down is $1,053.57

Residual is 49.5% for the Stinger, 53% for the TLX, and 54% for the C43.

I have $1500 down as Acura had $1500 "lease support dollars" in their price as a special and I assume you can at least negotiate that much off the others although I have no idea on those amounts.

Leasing unfortunately for me is likely out with the ~28,000km I put on per year. The above leases are for 24k a year which is as high as the calculators go. I am excited to go to start looking next month. :thumbsup:

I don't think the TLX is being re-done until 2019, and it still probably won't get a turbo motor. It doesn't even have basic infotainment features in it's current iteration.

$836/mo for a Stinger that is insane IMO. Poor residual and the high interest rate is adding over $100/mo to the car compared to something like a TLX costing the same amount. At that point you might as well just get a full load C63 if that's what you really want for only $200 more which is actually a good deal compared to a $50,000 Car for $836. Instead of costing you over $400/mo more based on value, it's only costing $200/mo more thanks to a good residual.

Also, you generally should not put money down on a lease - if you have to, it usually means you can't afford the payment. You are also giving them interest free money that could be sitting in your pocket instead, generating more money even in a relatively crappy investment than it would cost you to withhold the down payment.

If you're only going to be 4,000 KM over, leasing still could possibly turn out OK - you'd have to do the math and see. Extra KM are pretty cheap especially if you do it at the time of the lease, like $0.08/KM which is only $320 on that overage. Peace of mind for major accidents, hail damage, if you get a lemon, etc. may still be worth it depending on your priorities if you are only going to be over a little bit. You also don't have to look after the vehicle at all aside from scheduled maintenance if you don't enjoy that part of car ownership. On a lease return, you will typically only be charged for broken windshields, worn tires, and major damage that hasn't been fixed. Door dings, rock chips, smaller scrapes, curb rash, etc. is all "wear and tear".

Shopping is the funnest part. Make sure you try out everything, even some things you think you may not like - often times you get surprised.

[88CRX]

TLX has had crazy lease incentives.... should be able to get a base AWD for under $400/month on a 20k km 4 year lease at 0% with $0 down. Should be able to get the tech for an extra $50/month and the elite for yet another $50/month.

And yes TLX interior and info systems are dated, its a 4 year old car at this point. And it was dated before it even came out haha.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

TLX has had crazy lease incentives.... should be able to get a base AWD for under $400/month on a 20k km 4 year lease at 0% with $0 down. Should be able to get the tech for an extra $50/month and the elite for yet another $50/month.

And yes TLX interior and info systems are dated, its a 4 year old car at this point. And it was dated before it even came out haha.

Are these incentives still in place?

[88CRX]

Are these incentives still in place?

They were last fall when the new facelift model was showing up. And Acura was harassing me to trade up to a new one for the "same or similar" monthly payment recent but I never explored it any further.

[Xtrema]

Are these incentives still in place?

$3500 from Honda until Apr 2nd. If you can find one on the lot, I'm sure dealer can give you $2K off as well.

I think the only exclusion is A-Spec models.

[blownz]

I think the only exclusion is A-Spec models.

Which is the only model I would even consider. The rest look horrible and even more dated.

[Neil4Speed]

They were last fall when the new facelift model was showing up. And Acura was harassing me to trade up to a new one for the "same or similar" monthly payment recent but I never explored it any further.

Same here... never explored it further. If I was able to get the A-spec I might give it a second of thought but otherwise, not really interested. Its a fine car, and priced well, but boring. I have another 18 months left and trying to figure out what I want to replace it with.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Same here... never explored it further. If I was able to get the A-spec I might give it a second of thought but otherwise, not really interested. Its a fine car, and priced well, but boring. I have another 18 months left and trying to figure out what I want to replace it with.

I'm in the same boat. I'm ~20 months out from my lease ending, but I'm already car shopping and keeping an eye out. Even though it's too early, I can't help myself.

[mzdspd]

TLX has had crazy lease incentives.... should be able to get a base AWD for under $400/month on a 20k km 4 year lease at 0% with $0 down. Should be able to get the tech for an extra $50/month and the elite for yet another $50/month.

And yes TLX interior and info systems are dated, its a 4 year old car at this point. And it was dated before it even came out haha.

You can get a 2018 Accord Sport 2.0T for around 450$ per month. Overall much better car, better equipped with a proper infotainment and more fun to drive. Just lacks awd.

[Mitsu3000gt]

You can get a 2018 Accord Sport 2.0T for around 450$ per month. Overall much better car, better equipped with a proper infotainment and more fun to drive. Just lacks awd.

Unfortunately with the accord there is no sport touring model, so you can't get a MT with the good options, and there is a $6K gap between the Sport model and the Toruing model which has the option package most people are probably going to want especially if cross shopping the $40-50K segments. The Sport at $34K is a fantastic value but unfortunately there isn't anything in between that and the AT-only Touring model for $40K. I hope they add a MT sport touring for next year or something for $37K or so.

[mzdspd]

Unfortunately with the accord there is no sport touring model, so you can't get a MT with the good options, and there is a $6K gap between the Sport model and the Toruing model which has the option package most people are probably going to want especially if cross shopping the $40-50K segments. The Sport at $34K is a fantastic value but unfortunately there isn't anything in between that and the AT-only Touring model for $40K. I hope they add a MT sport touring for next year or something for $37K or so.

Depends how you look at it.. IMO, the touring is horrible value with the Accord.. You are paying like 5k more for an acoustic windshield, heads up display (not available on TLX), heated rear seats (not available on TLX A spec), and ventilated front seats. These are all luxury options and most people will probably end up with a mid level (EX or LX) Accord.

[88CRX]

You can get a 2018 Accord Sport 2.0T for around 450$ per month. Overall much better car, better equipped with a proper infotainment and more fun to drive. Just lacks awd.

Yea everything about it looks great.... except the FWD hah. Which is a pretty big deal breaker or concession.

Also looks more like the Accord Sport 2.0T prices out at $480/month.... which is $100/month more then the base AWD TLX (with incentives).

[Mitsu3000gt]

Depends how you look at it.. IMO, the touring is horrible value with the Accord.. You are paying like 5k more for an acoustic windshield, heads up display (not available on TLX), heated rear seats (not available on TLX A spec), and ventilated front seats. These are all luxury options and most people will probably end up with a mid level (EX or LX) Accord.

In addition to that I am pretty sure you also get a heated steering wheel, blind spot monitoring, rear cross traffic monitoring, auto on/off high beams, rain sensing wipers, parking sensors, Homelink, adaptive dampers, WiFi hotspot, rear USB ports, and probaby one or two others I am forgetting. You may not need or care about all that, but it really is a lot more stuff than you mentioned or that $5K or whatever. The Sport is definitely the sweet spot for value, and you still get most of the driver's assistance stuff.

I really want to drive one - I have only read good things, and apparently that 10spd transmission isn't as horrible as most other 9-10spd transmissions out there.

[Mys73ri0]

Red is the only color to get because of this. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

Personally think the yellow and blue both still great with the red side marker and like the uniqueness of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncDgAWpNJTQ for reference

[Neil4Speed]

Yea everything about it looks great.... except the FWD hah. Which is a pretty big deal breaker or concession.

Also looks more like the Accord Sport 2.0T prices out at $480/month.... which is $100/month more then the base AWD TLX (with incentives).

I struggle with that too... spending an extra 30% more for an accord without FWD is not really the direction I want to go. I won't lie though, the car does look very interesting.

[revelations]

One needs 400+ horsepower to pass on the highway?

I think hes talking about the short passing segments on the #1 around Revelstoke and Golden.

The conundrum with that is, especially in the summer, that you will just end up stuck around another truck/RV grandma doing 90 in the 90 zone, in perfect weather.

[ExtraSlow]

Passing someone who goes 90 is no problem. It's people who go 105 that are harder to pass.

[ercchry]

Passing someone who goes 90 is no problem. It's people who go 105 that are harder to pass.

It’s people that lay into the throttle in the passing zones while they can only manage about 75 on any single lane sections... since even mini vans now have 250hp+ 400hp is needed to get around them in the passing zones

[dirtsniffer]

The fucking kicker is that the rcmp could steal your vehicle for speeding in those passing zones.

[ercchry]

The fucking kicker is that the rcmp could steal your vehicle for speeding in those passing zones.

Well... maybe... but only if you only had 350hp then they could catch you :rofl:

But yeah... keep it under 40 over, that’s also why you need 400hp. It’s a short pass window before you hit that speed! Need to get there quick!

[Aleks]

$340 ish per month with incentive. V6 Tech TLX (FWD). That's a really decent payment for a car like this even if it's FWD.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2015-acura-tlx-tech-364-x23-emis-1000-cash-incentive/1340683562

[rage2]

I'm glad you guys understand my horsepower needs haha.

[Mys73ri0]

if there's a Kia salesperson on the forums shoot me a PM

[Mitsu3000gt]

if there's a Kia salesperson on the forums shoot me a PM

That's actually the other potential problem with this otherwise good vehicle - in my experience the dealerships are absolutely horrid, and you typically get bottom of the barrel salespeople.

We went to Kia to look at a Sorento a couple times. First, they made us fill out an entire form/survey with contact info, the vehicle we were looking at, what we currently owned, etc. Then, the salesperson disappeared to talk to her manager for 5-10 minutes to "discuss" the answers on our sheet and tried to tell us what we wanted. Then she asked if we wanted a test drive, and we said yes, so she had to go back and also clear that with the manager. Half an hour later, off we go on the test drive. The salesperson kept calling the autonomous cruise control "anonymous" cruise, and literally knew nothing about the vehicle, but made up BS answers anyway that were completely false. Couldn't even be bothered to read a brochure on one of their higher volume sellers. We returned, and the manager comes over to lay on every greasy tactic in the book to try get us to buy "today". Been to Kia 2 or 3 times now (different dealers) and it's been more/less the same experience. The salespeople all looked bored and depressed, and we were one of two customers in the dealership on a Saturday afternoon. Pretty much the last place on earth you would want to buy a $50K sports car. I imagine the Genesis experience will be much better when the G70 goes on sale.

[corsvette]

That's actually the other potential problem with this otherwise good vehicle - in my experience the dealerships are absolutely horrid, and you typically get bottom of the barrel salespeople.

We went to Kia to look at a Sorento a couple times. First, they made us fill out an entire form/survey with contact info, the vehicle we were looking at, what we currently owned, etc. Then, the salesperson disappeared to talk to her manager for 5-10 minutes to "discuss" the answers on our sheet and tried to tell us what we wanted. Then she asked if we wanted a test drive, and we said yes, so she had to go back and also clear that with the manager. Half an hour later, off we go on the test drive. The salesperson kept calling the autonomous cruise control "anonymous" cruise, and literally knew nothing about the vehicle, but made up BS answers anyway that were completely false. Couldn't even be bothered to read a brochure on one of their higher volume sellers. We returned, and the manager comes over to lay on every greasy tactic in the book to try get us to buy "today". Been to Kia 2 or 3 times now (different dealers) and it's been more/less the same experience. The salespeople all looked bored and depressed, and we were one of two customers in the dealership on a Saturday afternoon. Pretty much the last place on earth you would want to buy a $50K sports car. I imagine the Genesis experience will be much better when the G70 goes on sale.

Agree here. Our Family went through a Kia spell and every dealer sucked from sales to service and them trying to deny any warranty claim possible (the cars sucked after 2 years too when they started falling apart) Hopefully things have improved.

[Xtrema]

I imagine the Genesis experience will be much better when the G70 goes on sale.

Genesis has no dealership, they come to you for the exact same reason of poor dealership experience people get at Kia/Hyundai dealerships.

[Disoblige]

Exactly this. Post purchase dealership nightmares alone is enough for me not to purchase a KIA.