Job hunting for graduates

[MR2-3SGTE]

Just here to vent my frustration
As we all know, job hunting is more about who you know rather than what you know. Of all the 50+ applications I've submitted, my only responses have come from people I've spoken directly with. Of my entire graduating class, nobody has received any response from simply applying online. This sucks for me because I pretty much have 0 connections to anyone in the industry (entry-level position in instrumentation technology), so all my effort goes to kissing ass and making small talk.

My first job interview went fairly well, so I thought. We connected well and one of the HR guys was also a car guy and was asked about my last build. After that, no response. No return of email.

Today I just got a call from another company telling me they liked my resume and went on to a sudden unexpected phone interview. They asked how I heard about the position and why I wanted it. Being that I applied to the company weeks ago, along with 50 other applications, I had no recollection of this company or what the position even was. Needless to say, I completely eff'd up that conversation and I know I'll never get another call. I don't think it's even worth calling them back tomorrow for a 2nd chance as that would just make me seem desperate? The guy didn't even ask me if I had a minute to talk, as I was at work at the time and wasn't expecting a lengthy conversation. In hindsight, I should've let it go to voicemail and then done my research before calling back.

Oh well, time to spend hours browsing Linkedin again :banghead:

[finboy]

Last time I got laid off, I went back to school specifically because it is the easiest way to start a conversation with potential employers. Don’t waste time with the black box that is the hr portal, start reaching out to people for a coffee to learn more about their company, go for informational interviews, hit up professional organization (scmp, pmp, power bi, etc) events.

Shake some hands, get business cards, follow up with a coffee or lunch, and come prepared with questions that show you have researched their company and industry.

I have gone to networking events for my previous school as a thanks to my profs, handed out many cards every time, and ONE person has ever reached out for a follow up. I was more than happy to put forward some internal postings for them when they proved themselves competent. This isn’t a new thing, when I was in school I would chase down every opportunity I could for a face to face meeting because getting a job in calgary is about your willingness to engage people, and being personable. I heard the same thing from many people in my network when I was a student, no one ever followed up with the,, and they were happy to help me out when I took the time to ask them quality questions about their career choices.

If your classmates aren’t getting call backs, good, use that as a sign that you can seperate yourself from the rest of them, and do something that they haven’t thought of. Your time is free right now, and Starbucks is $5. Being a student, it will be the least expensive way you will ever get a job in your career.

[Marsh]

Hang in there, its tough out there. I went through the same thing after graduating a masters degree. 50 applications? I think i sent out 500 minimum (no joke). Get out there and pound the pavement and meet people. You have to build connections, its the only thing that will make you stand out. You said it yourself, everyone else you graduated with has had zero response. On paper, you all look the exact same to an employer. The differentiating factor is you. You can meet people, network. Thats the only thing in your power to do.

[ShermanEF9]

just gotta keep applying.

[sexualbanana]

Today I just got a call from another company telling me they liked my resume and went on to a sudden unexpected phone interview. They asked how I heard about the position and why I wanted it. Being that I applied to the company weeks ago, along with 50 other applications, I had no recollection of this company or what the position even was. Needless to say, I completely eff'd up that conversation and I know I'll never get another call. I don't think it's even worth calling them back tomorrow for a 2nd chance as that would just make me seem desperate? The guy didn't even ask me if I had a minute to talk, as I was at work at the time and wasn't expecting a lengthy conversation. In hindsight, I should've let it go to voicemail and then done my research before calling back.



Yeah. I've made a similar mistake before when I took a call that turned into an impromptu phone interview that I was ill prepared for. It's perfectly okay for you to say that you're in the middle of something and ask them to call back in an hour or whatever works for the both of you.

[Manhattan]

It's tough out there man but you gotta keep at it. The first job is the toughest like anything else in life when you first start out. The people who send out hundreds of resumes are seriously not doing it right. Spray & pray never works. You need to spend time and effort to tailor every cover letter and resume to the job and company you're applying for. It makes a big difference. When I was applying to jobs after graduation I only applied to 2 or 3 jobs per day max. Not for lack of effort but because I spent hours on each making sure it caught their attention and was tailored to the job/company. Recruiters get hundreds of applications for every job and probably skim each resume/cover letter for a few seconds. If your application is generic new graduate stuff like the rest they'll toss it in the garbage. Don't be afraid to exaggerate on a resume but never lie. Keep at it and try to get in touch with people who know the business.

[ercchry]

Beyond was a huge part of networking for me when I was in the hunt... hell, even now my boss is a beyonder!

[botox]

It's all about who you know these days, pretty much all our positions are filled from referrals. That's not to say you can't get a job, but it's going to be tough. I can't stress enough what Manhattan is saying, resume and cover page quality is very important. Perhaps you are applying for too many. You have to remember HR is going through hundreds of resumes and they probably take 5-10 seconds to skim over one and they can spot the generic and BS ones pretty quickly. I've even seen some people apply for several positions with the exact same resume and that doesn't look very good.

[ExtraSlow]

Work your school contacts. Professors, any TA's you know. The career Centre, everything.

I had trouble getting my first job, and in the end it was a referral from a prof that got it for me.

And for your sanity, limit LinkedIn to one hour a couple times a week. Any more is a sure recipe for depression.

[Sugarphreak]

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[argent]

Ironic.. but I echo this... so many people complain about lack of opportunities or lack of responses.. but I can see most of the new grads don't even follow up and expect the offer to be delivered to their door steps, with a cup of artisan coffee and welcome swags... plus flexible hours and leave of absence package to travel.


Last time I got laid off, I went back to school specifically because it is the easiest way to start a conversation with potential employers. Don’t waste time with the black box that is the hr portal, start reaching out to people for a coffee to learn more about their company, go for informational interviews, hit up professional organization (scmp, pmp, power bi, etc) events.

Shake some hands, get business cards, follow up with a coffee or lunch, and come prepared with questions that show you have researched their company and industry.

I have gone to networking events for my previous school as a thanks to my profs, handed out many cards every time, and ONE person has ever reached out for a follow up. I was more than happy to put forward some internal postings for them when they proved themselves competent. This isn’t a new thing, when I was in school I would chase down every opportunity I could for a face to face meeting because getting a job in calgary is about your willingness to engage people, and being personable. I heard the same thing from many people in my network when I was a student, no one ever followed up with the,, and they were happy to help me out when I took the time to ask them quality questions about their career choices.

If your classmates aren’t getting call backs, good, use that as a sign that you can seperate yourself from the rest of them, and do something that they haven’t thought of. Your time is free right now, and Starbucks is $5. Being a student, it will be the least expensive way you will ever get a job in your career.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I'm in O&G but I got my start as a summer student - do you have any relatives or do your parents have any friends (or any of your friends' parents) work for companies that offer internships or summer student positions? From there, it was way easier once your foot is in the door. As soon as you have experience, your connections and especially your education are less important (or completely irrelevant depending on the field). I've been lucky enough to have zero breaks in my employment even through the 2008 and 2013 crashes, but the couple times I got nervous about layoffs I started job searching and was able to get interviews at some major companies in town just for having a good resume and I didn't use a cover letter (usually 200-500 candidates and I was one of 3 or 4 chosen for interview).

Career fairs and trade shows are good too - keep an eye out for anything like that in your industry.

Also keep in mind that a lot of companies post jobs that they have no intention of hiring externally for, and by the time the posting goes out, they have already pre-selected an internal candidate but have to run through the full process for optics. So don't get too down on yourself or feel defeated if you don't hear back from someone - chances are you don't know the whole story. This first job is probably the hardest it will be to find a job for the rest of your life, so just stay at it.

Working your contacts is good, but don't push it too hard. Contacting people you haven't talked to in years for no other reason than you need something is not always well received - use your judgement there.

The first job is the hardest and by far the most frustrating. As soon as you get some experience, if you aren't getting interviews it's probably because of your resume. Maybe someone on Beyond is in your industry and can hook you up?

Also I am not saying this is you, but a lot of new grads have a huge sense of entitlement, and at least in O&G, think they can sail out of school right into a job starting at $80K/yr. That is not reality. Hard work in the job search will eventually get rewarded, but it won't happen right away.

[ExtraSlow]

Also I am not saying this is you, but a lot of new grads have a huge sense of entitlement, and at least in O&G, think they can sail out of school right into a job starting at $80K/yr. That is not reality. Hard work in the job search will eventually get rewarded, but it won't happen right away. Yeah, lots of new grads don't like field jobs too, when that's really the most common and profitable path to enter the business.

as to the $80k salary expectation, realistically, until you have a job, your current rate of pay is $0, so as long as they beat, that grab it with both hands.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Yeah, lots of new grads don't like field jobs too, when that's really the most common and profitable path to enter the business.

as to the $80k salary expectation, realistically, until you have a job, your current rate of pay is $0, so as long as they beat, that grab it with both hands.

Yup, pretty much. And if you don't like said job or are not being properly rewarded, keep doing a good job and enjoy the luxury of being able to job hunt with a paycheck.

[A790]

Network and get involved in industry events. Get known.

[three.eighteen.]

Try pounding pavement seeking mentorship rather than a job. It might be a bit more industry specific but I found that trying to find an articling position in law had the same problem with the hr portal and getting no responses. Instead, I phoned senior lawyers for career and job search advice. I found the benefits to be that the pitch is more natural in case they are hiring (it becomes more of a conversation than a sales pitch), you might find a mentor or someone who might bat for you later on in your search, you have an excuse to call them back to update them on the job search, and if you continue to stay in touch, you are actually demonstrating your persistence that might encourage them to hire you later.

[Euro838]

I'd also suggest maybe expanding beyond what you went to school for as there may be more/better opportunities in other industries i.e. cannabis, etc, that are growing faster and short of workers. I'm sure there are history majors that are definitely not doing what they went to school for.

[msommers]

Lots of great advice in this thread already so no need to beat a dead horse.

One thing I will say though on a personal level, I would feel very guilty and borderline-sleezy for asking people to hand in my resume or talk to X-person at X-company for me. Truly I wish I knew what I do now as that is how it works in the real world -- Whether you feel guilty or not, you have to ask for help because as mentioned numerous times, applying online is a formality for someone already getting hired. The incredible thing is that many people were happily willing to help me out. My current job would have not been possible without help as the online system auto-replied a couple days later telling me I didn't even qualify for the position. Another week later, a friend texts me saying the person doing the hiring came by their office and asked about me. I literally would not be here without them helping me.

I interviewed with Cenovus but didn't get the position, in fact all three of us at the UofA got rejected (one guy even worked there previously and his brother still works there, and even he didn't get the job). We had the "company orientation" presentation one evening prior to our interviews the following day. Additionally, they were also at the UofA for the career fair. They had selected all the people getting interviews, interviewing them and also manning the career fair booth.

It might be great to chat up the campus recruiters in September when the career fair is going on, but don't expect that to help you for the upcoming summer -- think the summer after that, maybe.

It's still fucking rough out there right now. I went back to school for my M.Sc. and it fortunately paid off. Did well in school but still, I'm incredibly lucky and fully admit it. Many things aligned just so to get me this summer job (yeah, just a summer contract job).

[Sugarphreak]

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[ercchry]

Part of me wonders if the online application system for bigger companies is just a test in itself to see if you are smart enough to get around it, haha

just to be PC... "look! we hire from a massive pool! online! we dont even know race or sex!" ...mean while the boss' son-in-law is actually getting the job, after blowing all the old boys down at the club all summer :rofl:

[ZenOps]

Smear lime jello over your naked body and run down the street. But really, being noticed is half the battle.

[austic]

Network and get involved in industry events. Get known.


This exactly.

I run an industry association as a volunteer and its amazing yet sad how short sighted students are. We started a student membership for only $20 and its amazing how few students we get.

Industry nights and career fairs are not really a good way to go anymore as its all HR folks that just tell you to apply online.

[HuMz]

Unfortunately instrumentation is one of the worst programs to be graduating from, given the state of the oil and gas industry.

Try apprenticing as an instrumentation apprentice, or as an electrician apprentice with an oil and gas firm. It will show that you're dedicated and if you can get on with an industrial/oil and gas related company, you'll be able to make connections to transition into a role more suited to your education.

If you and your classmates have little/if any related field experience, this could be what's holding you back. Companies in this market would much hire a fresh grad who has some industry experience, than a student whose only experience is their schooling.

[HiTempguy1]

It will show that you're dedicated and if you can get on with an industrial/oil and gas related company, you'll be able to make connections to transition into a role more suited to your education.

Eh, could go either way. I'm of the opinion that just as you dress for the job you want, you also take jobs for the career path you want. The priority is to get a job, but if you aren't getting experience relevant to the positions you want, its not really helpful for your career (certainly is helpful for the bottom line though).

But for a Instrumentation Technologist position that is say an office type of job? No way that is happening right now, complete agreement. I've been telling anyone that would listen since 2014 to not go into instrumentation. Electrical Technologist was a much better path, one I wish I had taken. Wider field of work, more generally applicable across many industries. There are still field jobs available, but most want you to be an apprentice or jman.

Even during the resurgent boom in 2010, it took me months out of school to land a couple solid interviews. NAIT has a really handy job portal, you might be able to get access with a SAIT account (unsure), you should use it. Lots of jobs get posted there that don't get posted elsewhere, so the competition for them is lower and they are tailored to new grads. I am sure SAIT has a similiar portal as well.

[Mitsu3000gt]

One thing I will say though on a personal level, I would feel very guilty and borderline-sleezy for asking people to hand in my resume or talk to X-person at X-company for me.

I agree with this - I have never done this in my life. Nobody wants to do that for you, and it's awkward for everyone involved. If the person does get hired, they are now linked to your reputation whether you like it or not (probably not). Also as a manager I would never give a job to someone who couldn't even find a way to contact me themselves. Being a reference is one thing, but doing someone else's leg work is entirely different IMO.

[MR2-3SGTE]

Thanks for the input guys. Yes I graduated as a technologist, but I'm more than willing to start as a control technician or an apprentice and do field work. I'm even taking the apprenticeship challenge exams in the next few weeks which would put me as a 4th year apprentice once I get the hours in. I don't believe that apprenticeship fieldwork is that far off from technologist work, and the experience would be an advantage if I get into DCS/PLC programming later.
Plenty of my classmates have gotten jobs, I just meant that they haven't gotten the jobs just through applying online, so I don't believe the job market is that bad. Electrical and Instrumentation are somewhat close in a lot of ways, and may of the job postings I've seen ask for either one.
Most of them have gotten a job through a family/friend, which I don't have, since I've only been in Calgary a few years. Company guest speakers just refer me to the online application page.
I've had my resume looked over by an experienced Beyonder so I don't think that's really the issue. Introducing myself is hard with the lack of industry-related experience. My past few years have been in other fields. I don't see what experience exactly a field technician would require, other than being good with hand tools. Being a car guy, I should already have that ticked off, but I can't exactly put that on a resume. Good find on the SAIT job portal, will definitely check that out

[lasimmon]

Weird. I have given resumes for people and have had people give my resume (and got interviews/jobs from it).

Why is that such a weird thing to some of you? Or is it if its a person you don't know? I am talking people I know personally here.

There is almost a 0% chance of getting a job strictly by applying online without someone at the company talking to HR/referring/giving your resume to the hiring manager these days.

[adam c]

My wife has recently graduated as an LPN and absolutely no one is hiring, it's starting to get stressful as we're now into burn rate as she hasn't worked since starting school

[Sugarphreak]

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[adam c]

What does LPN stand for?

Licensed Practical Nurse

[Sugarphreak]

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[msommers]

That's the public perception but it's absolute shit. Worst yet, most start as casuals who work a completely unpredictable schedule.

[ExtraSlow]

A huge need, but not a huge number of available full time positions, is what a friend of mine told me.

[dandia89]

The process of understanding the job search takes time and experience. If I offer any advice, don't follow into the blanket advice people toss at you. I found half of my job offers from online applications. Also, it's okay to turn down a job if you don't think they are paying enough (given your finances can handle it). I rejected a job offer 3 months into my search because it was absolute bottom of the barrel pay, and they wouldn't negotiate. A couple months later I found a job that paid 40% more (also from applying online)

[lasimmon]

The process of understanding the job search takes time and experience. If I offer any advice, don't follow into the blanket advice people toss at you. I found half of my job offers from online applications. Also, it's okay to turn down a job if you don't think they are paying enough (given your finances can handle it). I rejected a job offer 3 months into my search because it was absolute bottom of the barrel pay, and they wouldn't negotiate. A couple months later I found a job that paid 40% more (also from applying online)

Why wouldn't you take the job and continue your search? Thus banking a couple months of pay. Seems crazy to me not to.

[dandia89]

Why wouldn't you take the job and continue your search? Thus banking a couple months of pay. Seems crazy to me not to.

I felt it was taking away time from the job search/networking, leaving work for interviews. mentally being drained from a bad job, cost benefit of being on EI vs working full time didn't add up. Later in the job search, I had to drive up to edmonton twice in a week for two different job interviews. It was a tough decision, and almost everyone told me to take the job but still went with my gut.

[msommers]

I agree with this - I have never done this in my life. Nobody wants to do that for you, and it's awkward for everyone involved. If the person does get hired, they are now linked to your reputation whether you like it or not (probably not). Also as a manager I would never give a job to someone who couldn't even find a way to contact me themselves. Being a reference is one thing, but doing someone else's leg work is entirely different IMO.

Actually this isn't what I meant at all so my full post is better to understand my point in its entirety.

In short, I used to feel that way, but I certainly don't now. Because like I said previously, this is just how networking goes and I didn't fully understand that until now. Most certainly one has to use their discretion asking and assisting as they see fit, but frankly I was pleasantly surprised how much people were willing to help me out and all I had to do was ask. Not asking was my own wall I put up in fear of being judged, and in hindsight, was likely a major career error on my part.

Perhaps it's the company I keep or circle of friends, but as I get older, I'm far less pessimistic and believe people are far less shitty than I once did.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Actually this isn't what I meant at all so my full post is better to understand my point in its entirety.

In short, I used to feel that way, but I certainly don't now. Because like I said previously, this is just how networking goes and I didn't fully understand that until now. Most certainly one has to use their discretion asking and assisting as they see fit, but frankly I was pleasantly surprised how much people were willing to help me out and all I had to do was ask. Not asking was my own wall I put up in fear of being judged, and in hindsight, was likely a major career error on my part.

Perhaps it's the company I keep or circle of friends, but as I get older, I'm far less pessimistic and believe people are far less shitty than I once did.

Sorry for the misunderstanding - thanks for the clarification :thumbsup:

[Sugarphreak]

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[Mitsu3000gt]

Sleazy is probably the wrong word but I just feel like you should at least get yourself in the door before asking people to vouch for you. You should have to do at least SOME of the work yourself, IMHO. If they already have your resume and you have already got yourself an interview on your own merit, sure, get your friend who works there to vouch and highlight your skills. If you want that friend to blindly bring your resume forward for a position that isn't even posted or something, that is the sort of thing that is awkward for everyone IMO.

[lasimmon]

Sleazy is probably the wrong word but I just feel like you should at least get yourself in the door before asking people to vouch for you. You should have to do at least SOME of the work yourself, IMHO. If they already have your resume and you have already got yourself an interview on your own merit, sure, get your friend who works there to vouch and highlight your skills. If you want that friend to blindly bring your resume forward for a position that isn't even posted or something, that is the sort of thing that is awkward for everyone IMO.

I couldn't disagree more.

When I got laid off in December I had people reaching out to me hooking me up with people at other companies I didn't know but who couldn't be happier to pass along my resume and put in a good word for me. I had friends calling me and demanding my resume to put in at their companies, even without postings. If you have a great network - and people like you and you are good at your job they are more than happy to help you out.

[dandia89]

Sleazy is probably the wrong word but I just feel like you should at least get yourself in the door before asking people to vouch for you. You should have to do at least SOME of the work yourself, IMHO. If they already have your resume and you have already got yourself an interview on your own merit, sure, get your friend who works there to vouch and highlight your skills. If you want that friend to blindly bring your resume forward for a position that isn't even posted or something, that is the sort of thing that is awkward for everyone IMO.

passing along your info is wasting time. especially if they can't sell your skills like you can, you might get nothing. it's way better to get an introduction via e-mail, possibly set up a phone or coffee mtg and you have more control to bring him your skills, rather sitting on your hands for someone to do the work for you.

[Mitsu3000gt]

passing along your info is wasting time. especially if they can't sell your skills like you can, you might get nothing. it's way better to get an introduction via e-mail, possibly set up a phone or coffee mtg and you have more control to bring him your skills, rather sitting on your hands for someone to do the work for you.

Yup, that's another good reason. They need to be part of the process at least somehow, otherwise IMO there is a chance it could reflect poorly on the both of you. At least for me, it would make me very uncomfortable to walk around with a stack of resumes and bring them to the managers of departments who don't even have a position posted and get them to try create a position for my friend. To me, that's like cold-call marketing. There has to be at least some connection created by the person who wants the job first, then it's a lot easier to carry the torch. Also, IMO, if that person can't even be bothered to contact these people themselves for an introduction before a resume is delivered by an existing employee, I would wonder how badly they want the job.

[Sugarphreak]

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