4 Post Lift in garage

[Skrilla]

Anyone have a 4post lift in their garage? Looking at putting one on one side of my garage to store a car. Seen some places like Liftking and Babco(sp?) just looking for experience with these. How is the install to do? What is needed etc. I don't plan on parking another car underneath, just motorcycles. Looking online seems they start at around $3500 and go way up from there. Don't need anything fancy, and the car is quite light itself.

Thanks!

[88CRX]

+1

I've read not great things on Lift King here on beyond.

I've also heard good things on Direct Lift.... which appears to be similar to Lift King.

[J-hop]

Can’t offer much but you may need to have the floor cut and put proper reinforced footings in. Also think many require 220v if you don’t already have a hook up.

I was going to do that but after looking at what is involved I’m just going with a quick jack most likely. That definitely won’t be what you need though

[88CRX]

Can’t offer much but you may need to have the floor cut and put proper reinforced footings in. Also think many require 220v if you don’t already have a hook up.

I was going to do that but after looking at what is involved I’m just going with a quick jack most likely. That definitely won’t be what you need though

4 post doesn't require anything special as far as slab reinforcing is concerned. The weight of a car on 4 tires is spread to the 4 metal posts/base plates.

Also I think most of the storage 4 post lists do not require 220v either.

[JustinL]

I have a Bendpak HD-9 lift. It is one of the nicer lifts IMHO. Assembly is not complicated, but the pieces are VERY heavy. We used an engine hoist to move the heaviest pieces. It's quite nerve wracking when things are balancing and we were lifting the ramps, but with some straps to hold things under control, it actually went together smoothly. I use the 120v motor, which is slow, but works. Here are a couple pics of right after installation.8197981980

[T-Dubbs]

We used to have two liftking 4 posts in our old house... they worked well with ZERO issues (had them for 6+ years)
Didn't even have ours bolted down, and they were fine with a summer car or harley on top.

used regular power cord, and zero reinforcement to the concrete

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Can’t offer much but you may need to have the floor cut and put proper reinforced footings in.

Not for a 4-post, slab reinforcement is usually only for 2-post lifts when the installed slab doesn't meet spec.

[C4S]

Got one 4/5 year ago, only regret is .. too late to get one! LOL

$3,500 sounds decent, but I believe their website says installation extra .. so, probably another $300 or 400, can't remember how much it was ..

I don't have any issue, most the time a ~ 3500lb vehicle, some odd time will be the 4,000+lb big sedan, planning to get an addition one .. :D

VS ~ $1,500 a year storage, you get your money back in less than 3 year, and you can swap car when you want, no appointment! :clap:


Good luck.

[Skrilla]

Thanks guys! Excited to get this for the summer. Got a call into a couple Calgary places, don't think medicine hat has someone who sells them.

[2000TL]

I got a 4 post lift from garage living. It was an Atlas Pro 4 post lift and got it last year. I believe it was around $2900 plus $700 for install from what I can remember. Make sure you have enough clearance with your garage door as well.

[Maxx Mazda]

Lift king is garbage. My old man had one for about 15 minutes - as the guy was unloading it you could see how shoddy the workmanship was. Told him to load it back up and bought a Superior Lift instead.

This isn’t one of those things you can really cheap out on. It’s lifting a car up above your head and possibly another vehicle after all. Cheap Chinese welds just won’t cut it.

[88CRX]

Thanks guys! Excited to get this for the summer. Got a call into a couple Calgary places, don't think medicine hat has someone who sells them.

Post or pm me prices/quotes please! Looking to get one before next winter.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

What kind of garage height do you guys have? I want a 4-post, and I'm pretty sure I can fit one, but I need to have my door tracks replaced first.

[T-Dubbs]

Lift king is garbage. My old man had one for about 15 minutes - as the guy was unloading it you could see how shoddy the workmanship was. Told him to load it back up and bought a Superior Lift instead.

This isn’t one of those things you can really cheap out on. It’s lifting a car up above your head and possibly another vehicle after all. Cheap Chinese welds just won’t cut it.

I never found anything less than high quality on our two LiftKings. Perhaps you had the cheaper one?

[Maxt]

+1 on Bendpak. I have the high lift 14,000 lb 4 post. Commercial grade stuff.

[Maxt]

+1 on Bendpak. I have the high lift 14,000 lb 4 post. Commercial grade stuff.

I have to come back to this threead and take back my recommendation on Bendpak. I have had my new 4 post lift for probably close to 2 months now, and I can't even use it.
The lift is not the same as the one I bought 7 years ago, even though its got the same model #. The parts before were made in Mexico and China, but it looks like they have gone 100% Chinese, and possibly changed plants in China as there are many differences between the old lift and the new lift.
The biggest difference is the move from an MTE hydraulic power unit to their own Ranger hydraulic power unit. The MTE was made in USA with a mexican sourced Emerson motor, that had electrical parameters that all line up per NEMA spec for the motor hp. The Ranger unit, Bendpaks own made in China unit, has missing specs, and specs that don't line up with NEMA standards, which has made it impossible to get past the last part of my garages electrical inspection.
These powerunits have no thermal protection so it has to be added by the installer(customer). You usually size an overload by service factor and fla on the motor, but on the Ranger there is no service factor, so that method is out. Going through the code, overload can be sized by using HP out of the tables, but the FLA on the unit didn't line up with the HP FLA in the tables of the code. I talked to the electrical inspector, and gave him the data, and he said that everything on the motor nameplate is basically just garbage information and it can't be passed until the data makes sense, to size the wire, overload, and breaker.
Also the duty cycle is less than the MTE unit. I hooked it up with power to do some tests, and its drawing 9 amps at almost full hoist weight, rated 11.9 amps, 3hp single phase should be 17 amps fla. I took some ohm readings and compared it to some other capacitor start induction run motors I have here, and it looks like they are calling what is a 1.5hp motor a 3hp motor. The manual they include is the same print from when they used the MTE power unit. The manual states 25 amp service breaker(30 amp here), this is way to heavy for the motor thats on it now. A 15 amp service would feed the Ranger motor, so its obvious that this a lesser power unit than the MTE. I should run a speed test between the two hoists to see if the volume/min is even close.

Other issues
- lowering rate is now non adjustable, it takes forever to lower the hoist with no car or a light car on it. On the old hoist I could set it for whatever vehicles I was working on.
- Old Bendpak came with grease nipples installed, new one came with nipples not installed and short 6 grease nipples
- One pulley was too tight and binding on its pin, had to shave the internal bushing on a lathe to get it to work.
- Lowering handle hits the hydraulic tank before the lowering pin is barely depressed, they sent a replacement handle, same result. Ended up bending the handle in a vice.
- Plastic guards over the lock mechanisms instead of metal like the old one. I have to leave them off because a dually truck's outside wheels run over the plastic and they'll break leaving the locks open to mud and dirt.
- Old hoist had push lock swivels for control lines, new one has fixed brass non swivel fittings that makes the line have to twist and travel with hoist movement.
- Was missing half of the "included" brass compression fittings.


Response and service from Bendpak and Babco who is the Canadian agent, has been extremely poor. I won't buy anything from there ever again. I am not sure I can do anything with what I have now, I may end up having to buy a power unit on my own, since I can't get a response out of either company anymore, by the looks of it. The email I sent last week, probably the 15th one has gone unanswered as well as my telephone calls.
I am going to send an email to ETL who approved this motor next week and also to CSA about this stuff being sold into Canada, where apparently it can't pass electrical inspection. The inspector said the only way he would even look at passing it, is if it came with a factory cord end on it, which puts the onus on the company for power requirements as the type of plug determines the service, or if they will write a letter that they take all responsibility for any electrical fire for lifetime.
84163

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Damn, really sucks to see their shitty outsourcing is causing you headaches.

[HiTempguy1]

The inspector said the only way he would even look at passing it, is if it came with a factory cord end on it, which puts the onus on the company for power requirements as the type of plug determines the service, or if they will write a letter that they take all responsibility for any electrical fire for lifetime.

This is where you made your mistake. Are you hardwiring it in??

The inspector has zero reason or need to know what it is powering, have a proper 208v 3ph outlet, call it a day. Unfortunately you are now probably stuck with that inspector, and he'll be a dick about it.

[Maxt]

This is where you made your mistake. Are you hardwiring it in??

The inspector has zero reason or need to know what it is powering, have a proper 208v 3ph outlet, call it a day. Unfortunately you are now probably stuck with that inspector, and he'll be a dick about it.
It has to be hardwired, it just has a box with pigtails on the motor. It's single phase and has to have a manual reset motor starter with overload to protect the motor and thats where the big problem is, is it 1.0 sf or 1.15 or 1.40, could be anything. Most people probably add the hoist well after an electrical inspection so they never run into this, but this went in during my initial wiring install so they know its there.
I am calling the agency that issued the Canadian electrical approvals for the motor now to see what they say.

[Crazyjoker77]

It has to be hardwired, it just has a box with pigtails on the motor. It's single phase and has to have a manual reset motor starter with overload to protect the motor and thats where the big problem is, is it 1.0 sf or 1.15 or 1.40, could be anything. Most people probably add the hoist well after an electrical inspection so they never run into this, but this went in during my initial wiring install so they know its there.
I am calling the agency that issued the Canadian electrical approvals for the motor now to see what they say.

Tons of motors don't list their service factor. Code accounts for that.

28-306 Rating or trip selection of overload devices (see Appendix B)
(1) Overload devices responsive to motor current, if of the fixed type, shall be selected or rated or, if of the
adjustable type, shall be set to trip at not more than the following:
(a) 125% of the full load current rating of a motor having a marked service factor of 1.15 or greater; or
(b) 115% of the full load current rating of a motor that does not have a marked service factor or where
the marked service factor is less than 1.15.

[Crazyjoker77]

Also the duty cycle is less than the MTE unit. I hooked it up with power to do some tests, and its drawing 9 amps at almost full hoist weight, rated 11.9 amps, 3hp

The motor is only going to pull as much current as it needs. Its actually a good thing that it does not pull the full listed current. The FLA is just what its rated to do.


single phase should be 17 amps fla. and it looks like they are calling what is a 1.5hp motor a 3hp motor.

I think your forgetting that the motor is 230V 1phase
Single phase 120v would be around 17A (3x746=2238W/120= 18.65A)
But what you have is a single phase 230V (2238/230 =9.7A)

Obviously the motor is actually a little more than 3hp (11.7Ax230V=2691W / 746 = 3.6hp)

1hp=746W therefore 3hp = 2238W

At the end of the day your way overthinking this and there is only 3 acceptable ways you could go about wiring this. The only thing that matters is the FLA and the SF(or lack thereof)

1. Go strictly off the motor nameplate and assume its going to pull 11.7A with a SF of 1.15(rule i listed above.) use #14AWG copper with a 2pole 15A breaker into the line side of the motor starter. Set the overloads to 13.45 and use #14 wire to the motor. (2p 15A breaker >> #14 >> Motor Starter >> #14 >> Motor)

2. The other-way is to blindly follow the manual and go with what the manufacture tells you. Since 25A is not a standard breaker size you go to the next size up. Use a 30A breaker and #10Cu to the line side of the motor starter. Overloads still get set to 13.45, and then number #10 into the motor junction box. (2p 30A breaker >> #10 >> motor starter >> #10 >> Motor)

3.. Use a fused disconnect so you can change wire size since it may be impractical to run #10 Wire to the motor. (2p 30A breaker >> #10 >> Fused disconnect@15A >> #14 >> motor starter >> #14 >> Motor)


You already bench tested it and know it only pulls 9A which is well under the rated FLA and well under the 15A #14cu can provide so I would have no problem going with option 1.

*If its a particularly far run you may need to upsize the wire.

[Crazyjoker77]

Also worth noting if you actually do want to hook it up to 120V you need a whole new motor. This motor WILL NOT work at 120V.

[Maxt]

Tons of motors don't list their service factor. Code accounts for that.

28-306 Rating or trip selection of overload devices (see Appendix B)
(1) Overload devices responsive to motor current, if of the fixed type, shall be selected or rated or, if of the
adjustable type, shall be set to trip at not more than the following:
(a) 125% of the full load current rating of a motor having a marked service factor of 1.15 or greater; or
(b) 115% of the full load current rating of a motor that does not have a marked service factor or where
the marked service factor is less than 1.15.

Initially thats what I thought at as well about the markings, but apparently motors over 1hp and above are supposed to be rated. I have a call in to the approvals branch to find out if there are exceptions.




The motor is only going to pull as much current as it needs. Its actually a good thing that it does not pull the full listed current. The FLA is just what its rated to do.



I think your forgetting that the motor is 230V 1phase
Single phase 120v would be around 17A (3x746=2238W/120= 18.65A)
But what you have is a single phase 230V (2238/230 =9.7A)

Obviously the motor is actually a little more than 3hp (11.7Ax230V=2691W / 746 = 3.6hp)

1hp=746W therefore 3hp = 2238W

At the end of the day your way overthinking this and there is only 3 acceptable ways you could go about wiring this. The only thing that matters is the FLA and the SF(or lack thereof)

1. Go strictly off the motor nameplate and assume its going to pull 11.7A with a SF of 1.15(rule i listed above.) use #14AWG copper with a 2pole 15A breaker into the line side of the motor starter. Set the overloads to 13.45 and use #14 wire to the motor. (2p 15A breaker >> #14 >> Motor Starter >> #14 >> Motor)

2. The other-way is to blindly follow the manual and go with what the manufacture tells you. Since 25A is not a standard breaker size you go to the next size up. Use a 30A breaker and #10Cu to the line side of the motor starter. Overloads still get set to 13.45, and then number #10 into the motor junction box. (2p 30A breaker >> #10 >> motor starter >> #10 >> Motor)

3.. Use a fused disconnect so you can change wire size since it may be impractical to run #10 Wire to the motor. (2p 30A breaker >> #10 >> Fused disconnect@15A >> #14 >> motor starter >> #14 >> Motor)


You already bench tested it and know it only pulls 9A which is well under the rated FLA and well under the 15A #14cu can provide so I would have no problem going with option 1.

*If its a particularly far run you may need to upsize the wire.

I have 2 of these hoists, the older hoist with an emerson motor is 2hp, rated 11.6 on 230, the motor efficiency has to be calculated into is as well so its not a straight forward watt calcuation. The new motor struggles with the heaviest vehicle I have on the hoist where as the emerson never did . The reason I went to ohming it , is because of the way it sounds with the 1 ton truck on the hoist, it ohms very closely to the the 1.5 on my lathe. The emerson on the old hoist draws 11.1 amps under load. If I assume the emerson is 2hp as per label and the new one is 1.5 hp, it lines up almost perfectly with chart amperages. The watt calculations never work out with motors because motors are never 100% efficient, and vary greatly in efficiency.

http://www.elliottelectric.com/StaticPages/ElectricalReferences/ElectricalTables/Amperes_Single_Phase_Alternate.aspx


The hoist is going to be wired with #10's with a 30 breaker, but its the combination of the manuals wiring suggestion in comparison to the motor nameplate data that made the inspector say something is wrong with the data on either the motor or the manual. A few weeks ago I got a reply from Bendpak that the service factor is 1.15(which means its supposed to be on the label anyway), it took them a week to come up with that number, so I asked them for a sticker that says that to stick to the motor and they haven't been able to provide it, writing it in with a sharpie won't suffice for inspection.

[Maxt]

Crazyjoker77
I read the code in depth as I am not getting anywhere with the sticker.
What do you think of this:
So the motor is not rated continuous duty so I took the conductor size as intermittent duty, FLAx1.1=11.7x1.1, 12.87 amps so #12 for the wire.
Branch circuit for protection for single phase motor 11.7x2.5=29.25a, 20a will work from testing


And to get around the overload problem.
28-308 Overload protection not required

Rule 28-308 a II, an individual branch circuit having overcurrent protection as required by Table 29 if it can be readily
determined from the starting location that the motor is running;
Since the control switch is a momentary right on the motor, the above might be work?

[Crazyjoker77]

Pulled out the code book and that all checks out.

28-106 (2) The conductors of a branch circuit supplying a motor for use on non-continuous duty service shall have an ampacity not less than the current value obtained by multiplying the full load current rating of the motor by the applicable percentage given in Table 27 for the duty involved, or for varying duty service where a deviation has been allowed in accordance with Rule 2-030 by a percentage less than that specified in Table 27.

11.7x1.1

28-200 Overcurrent (a) a branch circuit supplying a single motor shall be protected, except as permitted by Item (c), by using an overcurrent device of rating not to exceed the values in Table 29 using the rated full load current of the motor;
11.7x2.5- 29.25

28.308 (a, ii) seem like it should apply.


Only other thing that might apply is possibly needing a disconnect/service switch if its not being fed out of a sub panel in the garage and within view.


28-600 Disconnecting means required (1) Except as permitted by Subrules (2) and (3), a separate disconnecting means shall be provided for
(a) each motor branch circuit;

28-602 Types and ratings of disconnecting means (see Appendix B) (1) A disconnecting means for a motor branch circuit shall be
(a) a manually operable fused or unfused motor circuit switch that complies with Rule 14-010(b) and has a horsepower rating not less than that of the motor it serves;
(b) a moulded case switch or circuit breaker that complies with Rule 14-010(b) and has a current rating not less than 115% of the full load current rating of the motor it serves;


28-604 Location of disconnecting means
(3) Except as required in Subrule (5), motor and motor starter or controller disconnecting means shall be locate
(a) within sight of and within 9 m of the motor and the machinery driven by it; and
(b) within sight of and within 9 m of the motor starter or controller.

[Maxt]

Thanks for the disconnect advice, I was searching for that..
I got an email today, they are sending me another power unit, same type as my old original hoist had, the MTE. So I spent all those hours of reading the code for fun I guess. The good news is that I can hook the MTE motor up like a normal motor and not worry about the inspector not agreeing with my code interpretation.