Attempted Armed B&E - Church Ranches

[CMW403]

I had two masked and one unmasked female assailant gain entrance to my house on a 4-acre plot yesterday morning at 9:30am sharp. They entered using a basement walkout door just after I had gotten out of the shower. I was actually sitting on the toilet when I heard whispering across the basement, I immediately realized what was going on, and also realized they had literally caught me in the worst possible position but took a deep breathe and readied myself for a confrontation. They saw the light on in the washroom and the door was also open so they quieted down and approached the washroom slowly, I could actually hear each step the first guy took in the carpet.

The first thing I saw come around the corner was a Gen4 Glock17, followed by a balaclava covered face. We locked eyes for about 3/4's of a second and had a little silent conversation. I made it clear that he had better shoot me where I sat because I was surely coming for his ass if he didn't. His eyes went about the size of dinner plates and all three of them headed out the way they came in. Keep in mind I made sure to wipe as I heard the first few footsteps so I was ready to rock and roll. I exited the washroom to the hallway so that I could get a look at them. I will include descriptions of all three at the end. I grabbed my Louisville slugger, naked as a buck, and met them on the driveway. I won't go into how my house is situated but as soon as I opened the front door, I knew where they were parked because I couldn't see the vehicle but I could hear them slamming doors and starting the engine.

I started down the driveway barefoot, as fast as i could go. I knew the vehicle was going to come out flying from where it was parked so I couldn't get behind it. I assume they had pulled in so that they could reverse out of the driveway without me seeing their plate if they ran into an issue like this, maybe it was just easier to pull in that way, I'm not sure, but sure as hell the beige first generation Toyota Matrix came flying out from the side of the garage, right in front of me.

At this point these guys were reversing out of a 60-yard driveway as fast as they possibly could, and they knew I hadn't seen the plate. I was literally a foot and a half off of their front bumper running at a pace that I was shredding the bottoms of my feet on the asphalt. I was waiting for the perfect time to take a swing at the hood/bumper, so at least I could tell the RCMP that I marked the vehicle. I swung and I missed, they reversed all the way out of my driveway and then kept backwards out of the crescent and down the hill, so I only managed to get a partial plate.

All that I have to say after the whole ordeal is that Biggie Smalls was a smart man.

"I got nines in the bedroom, Glocks in the kitchen
A shotty by the shower if you wanna shoot me while I'm shittin'" - If I Should Die Before I Wake

Vehicle - First generation Toyota Matrix painted beige with BNJ as the first three letters on the plate. No noticeable damage or markings on the vehicle. No tint.

First suspect - White male 6ft tall BLUE eyes, slim meth head build, wearing a balaclava that I will remember until the day I die. It was neoprene off black, almost grey, with yellow trim around the eyes and mouth hole and skeleton looking markings all over the face. Donning a Gen4 Glock17, he moved surprisingly tactical. He had taken a knee before bringing the barrel of the pistol around the door frame at a 45 degree angle.

Second suspect - White male between 5'6 and 5'8 stocky build, carrying black duffel bags and what I believe to be a Mossberg 500 pistol grip. (I only saw the back of this guy). He was wearing a black woven balaclava and all black.

Third suspect - White or Native girl between 5'6 and 5'8. Dark hair in a pony tail, wearing a black jacket and jeans.


If anyone else lives in this area please PM me ASAP as this car was seen by nearly all my neighbours creeping through the neighbourhood going three to four weeks back. They had the whole neighbourhood cased out.

One very odd detail is that our Canada Post community Mailbox seems to have been broken into or attempted to be broken into on the same day. Im not sure if they were thinking they would find a credit or debit card mailed to my address and then be able to connect that to documents within the house and try and empty some bank accounts, thats a mystery to me.


You guys haven't failed many people, you have definitely come through for me several times, I just thought I would try again.

Thanks guys.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[thinmyster]

Crazy! I honestly thought this was going to be some long winded car/wife joke.

Where do you guys keep your bats? This is something I should look into. Anyone else home at the time?

[msommers]

Man this is a really crazy situation, glad to hear you made it out unhurt and didn't get shot.

[CMW403]

Crazy! I honestly thought this was going to be some long winded car/wife joke.

Where do you guys keep your bats? This is something I should look into. Anyone else home at the time?

I lean my bat up against the doorframe on the inside of my bedroom door so that I always know where it is and I can grab it without even having to think about it.

No one else was home at the time.

- - - Updated - - -


Man this is a really crazy situation, glad to hear you made it out unhurt and didn't get shot.

Yeah, for about 1/4 of a second I thought I was definitely going to die.

Thank you for your condolences.



The emails from neighbours about attempted break-ins and thefts are flooding in now that the RCMP canvassed the neighbourhood yesterday and today.

This is becoming a real serious problem.

[Tik-Tok]

Genuinely curious here, and I'm not judging or saying ANYTHING about gun control BS or trying to derail the thread, but

If you had a gun, would you have fired at them?

[tcon]

I wish we had castle doctrine

[Maxx Mazda]

That’s some awful luck! I hate having to shit as soon as I get out of the shower

[DonJuan]

Genuinely curious here, and I'm not judging or saying ANYTHING about gun control BS or trying to derail the thread, but

If you had a gun, would you have fired at them?

If he did, he would prob be in more trouble than the perps

Glad to year you're ok though!

[Maxt]

82202
Am I the only one that had that PF scene in mind while reading that?
Thats freaking scary that they are B&E'ing armed though.. OP, was the house locked up, or did they gain entry though an open door?

[TomcoPDR]

Nice work recongizing the Glock G17 Gen4 to the details...

My worse phobia came true to someone then, pooping or showering and having to throw down.



That’s some awful luck! I hate having to shit as soon as I get out of the shower

You always have the options of doing these:

https://image.ibb.co/mC3mdJ/016c8acb1d5d798ccbcd6510e44fc1458428f142bd.jpg


Anyway I'll keep an eye out for the Beige Matrix with BNJ plate.

[ExtraSlow]

You always have the options of doing these:
https://image.ibb.co/mC3mdJ/016c8acb1d5d798ccbcd6510e44fc1458428f142bd.jpgI feel like those aren't your only options...

[TomcoPDR]

I feel like those aren't your only options...

Which ones have you done?

[ExtraSlow]

I prefer to get out my shit before stepping into the shower. But I've also stepped out and shit and then stepped back in. Not ideal, because it's weird being dripping wet on the toilet, but it's an option.

[revelations]

I wish we had castle doctrine

If the OP took a shot gun to these guys and killed them with the G17 in their hands, there would have been no questions asked.

I thought we covered this in the Castle thread from a while back already. Deadly force can be met with deadly force in Canada.

[CMW403]

Genuinely curious here, and I'm not judging or saying ANYTHING about gun control BS or trying to derail the thread, but

If you had a gun, would you have fired at them?

This is something I have been thinking about pretty much non-stop since it happened.

Going back to when I was running as fast as I could with my eyes on them right in front of me as they reversed out of the driveway, starting to feel like they were going to get away with breaking into my house and putting a gun on me, I won't lie but in that moment there was definitely a part of me that wished my useless Louisville slugger was a Mossberg 500 and a tube full of slugs.

But when I think back on that now, I would be sitting in lock-up, two guys that were going to lose their lives at some point anyway would be hurt real badly or in the cooler, and my life would ultimately be ruined.

I will argue that I would have definitely tried to use the shot-gun to disable the vehicle before I ever aimed at any flesh. I would have tried my absolute best to disable the vehicle and give them the chance to disarm themselves until the police arrived that's for sure. That sounds easy, but if the second guy had a shotgun in his hand like I think he did, I could have had slugs coming back out the windshield at me too right. A part of me thinks that if I had brandished anything more serious then a base-ball bat I could have been shot immediately. The driver could never have hit me he was looking backwards but the passenger and I had a solid 6-8 seconds of face time while I ran down the driveway after them.

At the end of the day I am glad I had my base-ball bat and not a firearm. It is a good thing I decided to grab the bat, even though I wish I had exited the house differently because I could have got a couple really bad shots in on one or both of the males had they stayed with their decision not to pull any triggers. All I have thought about since it happened is what I could have done differently to have been able to disable one of them while keeping myself safe and within the law. Im starting to obsess over it and my girlfriend is calling psychiatrists.

[spikerS]

I can say with pretty close to absolute certainty that someone breaks into my house while my family or I am home, and I will grab the frist available thing to me and given any chance I will beat the ever loving shit out of them with whatever it is. I don't own a gun, but if I did, if it was available, I wouldn't even think twice and would be unloading on them. Would it impact me, maybe a bit, but not to the extent I think you are being affected by it. The way I look at it, THEY made the decision to come in to MY house and therefore accept any possible outcome, including forefitting their life. I have already made the decision in my head, and I am comfortable with it, that I am fully prepared to take a life or lose mine in defending my family, and I am at peace with it.

Mind you, I have been the victim of a B&E twice now, and both times I have caught the person in the act, so I already know where my mindset is and how I will react, and the first time I will say that I had a similar mental gut check like you are now.

[CMW403]

I can say with pretty close to absolute certainty that someone breaks into my house while my family or I am home, and I will grab the frist available thing to me and given any chance I will beat the ever loving shit out of them with whatever it is. I don't own a gun, but if I did, if it was available, I wouldn't even think twice and would be unloading on them. Would it impact me, maybe a bit, but not to the extent I think you are being affected by it. The way I look at it, THEY made the decision to come in to MY house and therefore accept any possible outcome, including forefitting their life. I have already made the decision in my head, and I am comfortable with it, that I am fully prepared to take a life or lose mine in defending my family, and I am at peace with it.

Mind you, I have been the victim of a B&E twice now, and both times I have caught the person in the act, so I already know where my mindset is and how I will react, and the first time I will say that I had a similar mental gut check like you are now.

I can't be on here saying things like that though man I have been in much worse situations than this as a young adult and I know how far I need to take things by a mans reactions, this guy saw me and wanted nothing to do with me. They had cased the whole outside of the house while I was in the shower in the basement getting out of a bedroom with all the blinds closed and a washroom completely out of sight. These were meth addicts that were interested in a crime of opportunity, they definitely believed the house was empty, I don't believe their intention was to hurt anyone in the process but at the same time I don't doubt that they would in a second had I challenged them with a weapon. I also know that had I grabbed a high caliber semi automatic weapon I had the time and opportunity to end all three of their lives while they were still on my property and kept the public safe in terms of my angle of fire at the same time. Trust me spikerS, this could have been the outcome, but as soon as I knew that all three wanted to leave that fast, I knew that I had to scare the shit out of them just in case one of them second guessed the first guys decision and wanted to turn around and put a bullet in me.

These guys could have easily gotten over on me if they decided to, so I took any and all action to get them out of there are fast as I could. They knew I was the only one home, and they came in the direction of a large burglar safe I have so I assume they had seen that through the window at some point.

This is an active case I don't want any misconception from any and all statements made by me or anyone representing me.

[spikerS]

oh, don't take anything that I said as a slight at you. I think I did a pretty piss poor attempt to relate to you, and show that the mental steps you are going though are normal, at least to me, as I have been in a very similar situation. Mind you, in my 2 events, it was 1 v 1 where you were 3 v 1.

It would probably be a good idea to talk to a shrink, if nothing else than for a mental health checkup. There is a program through the police, victims of crime or something that can put you in touch with a psych that deals with this kind of situation on the norm and would probably be your best bet.

I also want to make clear that I am not disagreeing with your choices. At the end of the day, you and yours are safe. That alone says you did everything right.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[CMW403]

I wouldn't spend too much time going over what could have been if circumstances were different.

Getting bent out of shape over hypothetical outcomes can be detrimental to your mental health. Instead try to look at it from an optimistic angle; you didn't get injured or killed, and you didn't do anything that would land you in jail either. The number of ways this could have played out compared with the way it did, I think you should just consider yourself fortunate and put your focus elsewhere.

Do you have any idea on how you might deter thieves in the future?

When I was reading this I was thinking that if you had a camera system it may have made them think twice, and even if they had not, it could have captured the plate number. You can get some pretty advanced systems these days for not a lot of cash.

Thanks a lot Sugarphreak.

Six of those 360 degree $250 Ring units have already been ordered. I am also going to put a couple cameras up covering the entrance to my small crescent and the entrance to my driveway. I would also like to look into a motion sensor at the end of the driveway that dings my phone when a vehicle drives in.

The reason they chose my house is because it is out of sight from the street/end of driveway. To be honest, a gate and call-box have been in the plans since the beginning, I already have my sandstone wall up on either side of the driveway. A full on shootout could have gone on in front of my house and no one would have seen anything. After this incident I realized data is too cheap to not have all of that real estate under hi-def motion detection camera at all times. Its just not worth it to not have 360 degrees around your house under CCTV 100% of the time all the time.

[revelations]

OP you didnt mention how these assholes gained entrance. Was a door left open?

[CMW403]

OP you didnt mention how these assholes gained entrance. Was a door left open?

I believe so. Unfortunate because the door is hidden away and never used. I believe one of my young nieces or nephews probably used the door the last time they were here for a family event and left it unlocked as it is in a back room where we keep toys for the kids to play with when they come over.

UPDATE TO ORIGINAL POST WITH CTV STORY AND REWARD OFFERED

[roopi]

Glad to hear you are ok. None of your neighbors caught anything on camera?

A few months ago a few people tried breaking into a neighbors house and he shared the video with me. After seeing that I immediately ordered cameras as well.

[Maxt]

The news describes the woman as Caucasian, but you said could be native?
Maybe it's time to make a rural crime thread to post incidents in. Keep all the descriptions in one place, since a lot of the time, it's the same people over and over again.

[CMW403]

Yeah I only saw the back of her head but her hair had that really really dark deep red the natives have going on. Its actually quite a beautiful color, some of them take advantage of it and it looks really good. This girl on the other hand, she was definitely not keeping track of how she handled her hair.

EDIT: I did tell the officer that she was white or native but he probably kept that out of the description because he thought it may be a tad racist? I didn't think so but to each his own.

Her hair was in a definite pony tail I can tell you that. And she was fast.

[tcon]

If the OP took a shot gun to these guys and killed them with the G17 in their hands, there would have been no questions asked.

I thought we covered this in the Castle thread from a while back already. Deadly force can be met with deadly force in Canada.



I'm sure the RCMP would still attempt to hit you with a slew of firearms charges like improper handling, improper storage, using an unregistered fire arm, etc. In the end you may end up out of prison but it would be a long grueling process.

[CMW403]

I'm sure the RCMP would still attempt to hit you with a slew of firearms charges like improper handling, improper storage, using an unregistered fire arm, etc. In the end you may end up out of prison but it would be a long grueling process.

This was my exact thought process.

I'd have to hire a majorly high priced lawyer to get me through all of those charges and then in the end it would have been an expensive event that I probably would have taken some pride in for a day or two but ultimately regretted it.

Not worth it.

[Maxt]

I wonder how it would play out if you would have beaten one of them to death with the bat while they were armed?
They'll be caught, get a haircut ,a new suit, tell the understanding caring activist judge they've joined junior forest wardens which turned their lives around, and be out the next day to victimize your neighbour.

[born2workoncars]

Came expecting Spikers to explain how he would’ve man-handled the situation.

Left satisfied.

Good luck OP! Glad you’re ok. Hope they catch the fuckers.

[tonytiger55]

WOW... Muddha fuckers. Just reading the post made my blood boil. These fuckers were in your home.

Glad your ok and no family was at home. Thats pretty good attention to detail.
Adrenaline and the rush of blood to the head can do all sorts. It could have easily gone the other way.

The thing about engaging the other person is that you don't know what is going on through their head. They may be high on something or withdrawal effects may put them in a very edgy state of mind. Mega props on keeping your cool. I doubt I would have been able to.

Hell if it was me it would have played out like this..

I mean these idiots go to burgle the house. One guy looks though the door to the toilet. He suddenly sees me taking a shit AFTER taking a shower. Thats pretty hardcore.. I mean thats some determination right there. (I would not fuck with a guy who does that.... would you?)

82209

Then it hits him... the stench.. it BAD. Lasts nights butter chicken. Its almost as if a animal had crawled up Tony Tigers ass and just decided to die right here. The burglar reels back wide eyed gasping for air..

82210

The native girl steps forwards towards the first guy and then freezes. The second guy looks over to see what is going on and notices the girl is standing looking confused.. she then starts swatting air in front of her with a look of confusion..like there are invisible flies or something. Perplexed the second guy attempts to move forward but he stops dead in his tracks as the stench of hell hits him, its like the explosive blast from the movie independence day.


https://youtu.be/orUu0fQJee0

Its all happening in slow motion. He pauses for a second and mumbles... 'Son of a bitch'.
The girl screams.

82213

They scramble to the car and punch it in reverse.
Out of the corner I jump out and try to take a swing at the car. Knowing my luck I miss and fall..but then I would stumble, fall and then start rolling towards the car.
It would be like the scene from The Simpsons intro... the take on Indiana Jones... the giant rolling ball. TonyTiger is rolling down the drive towards the car..gaining momentum.

82212

The native girl is sitting the back seat. She screams and points to the giant bowling ball that is Tony Tiger rolling towards them. The first guy is sitting in the passenger seat semi conscious. Upon seeing the giant bowling ball that is Me... he screams...Faster! Faster..!
The second guy yells, its a fucking Matrix..its giving it all its got.

Native girl starts to sob... she screams 'We all going to die!!!'
At the last moment the matrix hand brake turns around the corner, I fly past the car and continue rolling.. crashing through the neighbours fence and into the duck pond.

Sorry CMW403. Its Sunday.. I could not resist and had to add funnies.. but yes... a very serious scenario.

Glad your ok. Hope they catch the cunts.

[revelations]

I'm sure the RCMP would still attempt to hit you with a slew of firearms charges like improper handling, improper storage, using an unregistered fire arm, etc. In the end you may end up out of prison but it would be a long grueling process.

No sir, that is not how it works in Canada - esp an unrestricted firearm like a shotty. You need to read the Castle thread, this was all laid out and cases shown where people defended themselves with deadly force without any issues.

Recent case to mind comes in from SK last year where a woman shot and killed an unarmed intruder.

[tcon]

No sir, that is not how it works in Canada - esp an unrestricted firearm like a shotty. You need to read the Castle thread, this was all laid out and cases shown where people defended themselves with deadly force without any issues.

Recent case to mind comes in from SK last year where a woman shot and killed an unarmed intruder.

Wouldn't surprise me if she got off a little easier because she was a woman.
I'll counter with this case:
http://calgarysun.com/news/crime/rcmp-charge-okotoks-homeowner-and-alleged-intruder-after-shots-fired-during-confrontation

RCMP do not like gun owners, that's a fact.

Regardless, I'd rather be in jail and alive, than dead with my guns still locked up in the stack-on.

[revelations]

Wouldn't surprise me if she got off a little easier because she was a woman.
I'll counter with this case:
http://calgarysun.com/news/crime/rcmp-charge-okotoks-homeowner-and-alleged-intruder-after-shots-fired-during-confrontation

RCMP do not like gun owners, that's a fact.

Regardless, I'd rather be in jail and alive, than dead with my guns still locked up in the stack-on.

If it was the home owner who was shooting while the suspects were fleeing, how is that self defense? Thats is a poor example and exactly what you're not supposed to do.

OP stated a person was in their home pointing a firearm. Thats grounds for instant death in Canada and has been supported by case law many times.

You generally cant shoot a fleeing person and claim self defence, especially if they are out of your home. This is where people have gotten into trouble with the law - even then - many of these cases ended up with the defendant winning - but after legal proceedings.

[sexualbanana]

Wouldn't surprise me if she got off a little easier because she was a woman.
I'll counter with this case:
http://calgarysun.com/news/crime/rcmp-charge-okotoks-homeowner-and-alleged-intruder-after-shots-fired-during-confrontation

RCMP do not like gun owners, that's a fact.

Regardless, I'd rather be in jail and alive, than dead with my guns still locked up in the stack-on.

The article doesn't really have a lot of detail, so I'll deduce what I can. Self-defence and castle laws are of interest to me, but I'm not a lawyer so take it for what it's worth.

Self-defence laws are of the immediate situation and relates to the immediate threat. For example, Person A and Person B are both at a bar, and Person B begins to threaten, or even assault, Person A. The altercation ends and Person B begins to walk away. The initial incident is now over and Person A is no longer under threat from Person B. If Person A were to re-engage Person B, then Person A has become the aggressor and self-defence no longer becomes a viable defence.

I say that, because I'm GUESSING that's what the three counts of aggravated assault were for. Mr. Maurice, the homeowner, confronted the burglars and forced the burglars to flee. Seeing as the burglars were running away and no longer a threat to Mr. Maurice, the initial threat is now over.

While the burglars were fleeing, Mr. Maurice fired at the fleeing burglars - thus accounting for the charges of careless use of a firearms and pointing a firearm. Given that there was no immediate threat to Mr. Maurice, he became the instigator. Given that an 'unknown number of shots was fired,' it may suggest that Mr. Maurice wasn't aware of how many shots were actually fired.

Another suggestion could be that he fired the gun in a random direction to scare the burglars. Both uses are pretty negligent ways to use a firearm. This is likely, as the article states that shots were fired before the burglars fled.

The basic idea of using firearms for self-defence is that you can use it deter and defend, but you can't use it to enforce. So basically, if a burglar is in your house, they have to prove an immediate threat to your safety. If you shoot a burglar in the back while they're rummaging through your cupboards, there's no immediate threat to you, and it becomes aggravated assault on your part.

That's why store clerks don't usually get charged with assault when they fight back against robbers.

[CMW403]

WOW... Muddha fuckers. Just reading the post made my blood boil. These fuckers were in your home.

Glad your ok and no family was at home. Thats pretty good attention to detail.
Adrenaline and the rush of blood to the head can do all sorts. It could have easily gone the other way.

The thing about engaging the other person is that you don't know what is going on through their head. They may be high on something or withdrawal effects may put them in a very edgy state of mind. Mega props on keeping your cool. I doubt I would have been able to.

Hell if it was me it would have played out like this..

I mean these idiots go to burgle the house. One guy looks though the door to the toilet. He suddenly sees me taking a shit AFTER taking a shower. Thats pretty hardcore.. I mean thats some determination right there. (I would not fuck with a guy who does that.... would you?)

82209

Then it hits him... the stench.. it BAD. Lasts nights butter chicken. Its almost as if a animal had crawled up Tony Tigers ass and just decided to die right here. The burglar reels back wide eyed gasping for air..

82210

The native girl steps forwards towards the first guy and then freezes. The second guy looks over to see what is going on and notices the girl is standing looking confused.. she then starts swatting air in front of her with a look of confusion..like there are invisible flies or something. Perplexed the second guy attempts to move forward but he stops dead in his tracks as the stench of hell hits him, its like the explosive blast from the movie independence day.


https://youtu.be/orUu0fQJee0

Its all happening in slow motion. He pauses for a second and mumbles... 'Son of a bitch'.
The girl screams.

82213

They scramble to the car and punch it in reverse.
Out of the corner I jump out and try to take a swing at the car. Knowing my luck I miss and fall..but then I would stumble, fall and then start rolling towards the car.
It would be like the scene from The Simpsons intro... the take on Indiana Jones... the giant rolling ball. TonyTiger is rolling down the drive towards the car..gaining momentum.

82212

The native girl is sitting the back seat. She screams and points to the giant bowling ball that is Tony Tiger rolling towards them. The first guy is sitting in the passenger seat semi conscious. Upon seeing the giant bowling ball that is Me... he screams...Faster! Faster..!
The second guy yells, its a fucking Matrix..its giving it all its got.

Native girl starts to sob... she screams 'We all going to die!!!'
At the last moment the matrix hand brake turns around the corner, I fly past the car and continue rolling.. crashing through the neighbours fence and into the duck pond.

Sorry CMW403. Its Sunday.. I could not resist and had to add funnies.. but yes... a very serious scenario.

Glad your ok. Hope they catch the cunts.

I had just smoked with uncle murray outside before coming in and reading this, I can tell you that I laughed for about a half hour straight and I read it a few times over. You have a penchant for story telling my friend. Thank you for the comic relief.

[tonytiger55]

The article doesn't really have a lot of detail, so I'll deduce what I can. Self-defence and castle laws are of interest to me, but I'm not a lawyer so take it for what it's worth.

Self-defence laws are of the immediate situation and relates to the immediate threat. For example, Person A and Person B are both at a bar, and Person B begins to threaten, or even assault, Person A. The altercation ends and Person B begins to walk away. The initial incident is now over and Person A is no longer under threat from Person B. If Person A were to re-engage Person B, then Person A has become the aggressor and self-defence no longer becomes a viable defence.

I say that, because I'm GUESSING that's what the three counts of aggravated assault were for. Mr. Maurice, the homeowner, confronted the burglars and forced the burglars to flee. Seeing as the burglars were running away and no longer a threat to Mr. Maurice, the initial threat is now over.

While the burglars were fleeing, Mr. Maurice fired at the fleeing burglars - thus accounting for the charges of careless use of a firearms and pointing a firearm. Given that there was no immediate threat to Mr. Maurice, he became the instigator. Given that an 'unknown number of shots was fired,' it may suggest that Mr. Maurice wasn't aware of how many shots were actually fired.

Another suggestion could be that he fired the gun in a random direction to scare the burglars. Both uses are pretty negligent ways to use a firearm. This is likely, as the article states that shots were fired before the burglars fled.

The basic idea of using firearms for self-defence is that you can use it deter and defend, but you can't use it to enforce. So basically, if a burglar is in your house, they have to prove an immediate threat to your safety. If you shoot a burglar in the back while they're rummaging through your cupboards, there's no immediate threat to you, and it becomes aggravated assault on your part.

That's why store clerks don't usually get charged with assault when they fight back against robbers.

There was a case many years ago in the UK. A farmer named Tony Martin killed a teen burglar fleeing his property. Looking at the whole picture the burglars were trouble makers and had been for a while. But because the burglar was fleeing Tony Martin was convicted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

The was a second case recently where a pensioner killed a burglar. he was not charged as his safety was in danger.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5587085/Pensioner-WONT-charged-burglars-killing.html

[Kloubek]

That's fucking crazy man. Glad you are ok. And glad that
a) You DIDN'T have a gun and used it. They might have shot back and with two of them with guns and all...
b) They chose to run rather than mess you up. While I'm sure you would have done your best, it's pretty hard to fight back against a couple of people with guns.

Crazy crazy stuff.

[CMW403]

That's fucking crazy man. Glad you are ok. And glad that
a) You DIDN'T have a gun and used it. They might have shot back and with two of them with guns and all...
b) They chose to run rather than mess you up. While I'm sure you would have done your best, it's pretty hard to fight back against a couple of people with guns.

Crazy crazy stuff.

Thanks.

I'm actually starting to really wish I had a rifle instead of a baseball bat.

I can't sleep. Im going to spend on alarms but I'm just plain angry someone came into my house a put a gun on me and I to be completely honest, I wanted my chance to respond with equal force. Next time I will respond with equal force and we'll see who comes out on top.

They didn't even have the empathy to include my swingin' dick in the news report, PM me I want to talk to you about that CTV. I was naked and I still had the biggest gun on the property and I'll put my grandfather's name on that.

[Disoblige]

Hey CMW, like most mentioned here, glad you're OKAY and that's one hell of a story.

Have you considered having a dog on the property as well? Alarms may help, but nothing better than a dog sensing every nook and cranny around the house if they hear something. More to alert you than actual physical protection, to be clear. Also may help with you mentally.

[Kloubek]

Ha!

You want to talk to me about my contact with the news? Sure. PM me your contact info and I'll see if he wants to get in touch. I'll make sure I tell him you want more focus on your manhood.

I'm really glad you didn't have a gun. Dude.. it'd be 2 against 1 and even if you came out on top by some hand of god, you'd have those visions in your nightmares for the rest of your life. I'm super glad it never came to that.

[jaylo]

Kloubek's right. Glad you did not have a gun or it would have been a different situation.

So many factors for the intended outcome and it's not like in the movies or video games where you lock and load and shoot with 99% accuracy.


Let's look at a scenario if you had a shotgun vs the Slugger:

You hear the burglars, you proceed to unlock the shotgun in its safe or unlock the trigger lock. After that, you load it up with a shell or two, quite difficult with adrenaline and trembling fingers.

Then you charge it hoping that it's fully charged and would not jam on the first shot. Shotguns have long barrels and in close quarters a bit ineffective and deafening.

Or if they run away and you come running after them with the shotgun, even if you are a good marksman, a moving target, plus you're moving as well and this decreases accuracy.

Did you put the right choke or slugs to maximize accuracy? Is the safe on or off? Are there any other family members in the house potentially behind the drywall?

They have a handgun, Glock 17's are pre-charged and effective in close quarters and has good accuracy. Other perpetrator has a shotgun. You're outnumbered. Plus, you do not know who else is lurking around the corner.


Tough call man. Your chances of winning on your end is probably slim in the situation you described.

[ExtraSlow]

Your chance of being killed would have been much higher of you had a gun.

How's your state of mind? Some people can be seriously affected and it's not a bad idea to have a chat with a professional therapist or psychologist who deals with these things. One or two chats can't hurt and might help a lot. Sometimes it's hard to objectively assess yourself after an event.

[CMW403]

Ha!

You want to talk to me about my contact with the news? Sure. PM me your contact info and I'll see if he wants to get in touch. I'll make sure I tell him you want more focus on your manhood.

I'm really glad you didn't have a gun. Dude.. it'd be 2 against 1 and even if you came out on top by some hand of god, you'd have those visions in your nightmares for the rest of your life. I'm super glad it never came to that.

I absolutely do. I want it known that I stood up naked from head to toe brandishing the largest firearm on the property and put the fear of god in two armed men and some worthless whore and chased them straight out of the neighbourhood, swinging along as I did the 60 yard dash down the driveway.

- - - Updated - - -


Your chance of being killed would have been much higher of you had a gun.

How's your state of mind? Some people can be seriously affected and it's not a bad idea to have a chat with a professional therapist or psychologist who deals with these things. One or two chats can't hurt and might help a lot. Sometimes it's hard to objectively assess yourself after an event.

Im finding it extremely difficult. I am very stressed out, I have smoked about an ounce and a half of weed and taken a lot of xanax in three days, haven't slept for more then a half a second.

I find myself going back over and over and over the situation in my head and analyzing what I did wrong, what I could have done better or differently, what they could have done had I done something differently and on and on and on and on. A trillion times over already.

Since I already suffer from PTSD, the RCMP have booked me an appointment with one of their own psychiatrists that deals with other RCMP officers with PTSD or developing PTSD after traumatic incidents. They told me it is extremely important to see someone a couple times as soon after the incident as possible, because I guess your mind can play tricks on you in terms of memory and often reveal details that were previously completely "unavailable" or "unattainable" to you.f

[msommers]

Dude! So happy to hear you're going to talk to someone about this shit. Seriously.

I was at a friend's birthday party down in Kensington and we're leaving Julio's to Molly Malone's. This dude I never even met puts his arm around me jokingly and then asks why I didn't chip into the bill, only to be jabbed hard in the ribs. I look down and see this guy has a massive spike in his jacket trying to jab me. I get out of his grip and his friend just looks like everything is cool. And I realize it's just now me alone on the street between bars with these two idiots. Ended up getting away and going into the bar telling everyone what happened just trying to distance myself from this idiot.

I have replayed that incident so many times in my head of what I should or could have done differently...still makes me angry even typing it now.

Talking to someone helps curb the repetition of thought. I didn't think it was a big deal later but clearly fucks with my head still. And in comparison to your experience is minor.

[Lex350]

One very odd detail is that our Canada Post community Mailbox seems to have been broken into or attempted to be broken into on the same day. Im not sure if they were thinking they would find a credit or debit card mailed to my address and then be able to connect that to documents within the house and try and empty some bank accounts, thats a mystery to me.



.


I was my bike through Church Ranches all the time. I noticed twice that ob Aspen Drive the Mail super box had been broken into last week.

[Kloubek]

The basic idea of using firearms for self-defence is that you can use it deter and defend, but you can't use it to enforce. So basically, if a burglar is in your house, they have to prove an immediate threat to your safety. If you shoot a burglar in the back while they're rummaging through your cupboards, there's no immediate threat to you, and it becomes aggravated assault on your part.

This is true. I should add, however, that the law doesn't hold the common citizen to the same standards as they do, say, a cop. So if someone breaks into your home and you shoot them, it's really up to the CROWN to prove that you knew you didn't need to. Not just whether you needed to or not, but that you KNEW you didn't need to. It's not up to you to prove the opposite. This is key, and helps protect you if you are simply scared and happen to put a slug or two in someone. Given your scenario - where someone's back is turned then you will have a tough time disproving the crown when they say that wasn't necessary, and you being scared can only go so far and wouldn't likely extend to that scenario.

We've talked about castle law in another thread, and the bottom line consensus is that you do what you need to do to defend yourself and your home. Just make sure you don't do anything you DON'T need to do and you will be ok. The moment you do something out of anger instead of perceived necessity is the moment you open yourself up to potential prosecution.

In CMW403's case, he would be in every right to shoot to kill. These people had guns, and that alone is enough threat to get him off the hook if he did so. But like I said in an earlier thread, 2 against 1 gunfight is not likely to end well for him in any case.

And CMW403: If you want to get your story out, you still need to PM me your contact info before I will approach my media guy with it.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Came expecting Spikers to explain how he would’ve man-handled the situation.

Left satisfied.

Good luck OP! Glad you’re ok. Hope they catch the fuckers.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: thaz funnee.

Crazy situation OP, take care of yourself now - it's not worth losing your sanity over so do what you need to do.

[90_Shelby]

Did they get busted?: http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/rural-crime-three-people-facing-nearly-300-charges-in-rural-crime-spree/wcm/131cd80b-5a77-49a2-8d80-689629588235

[Swank]

Holy crap, totally missed this thread. How are you doing now OP? Hopefully settling down somewhat and getting used to a new version of normal life.

I too had the joy of coming home to a man in my home probably about 10 years ago now. Fortunately my neighbor at the time thought something was suspicious and asked me if a buddy was moving out when I got home. When I saw my back door open a bit and the motion sensor light not coming on the instant dread set in. I either had been or was being robbed. I asked my neighbor to keep an eye on the back door while I went around to the front, and that's when I looked over and saw a guy carrying some stuff, my stuff. I shouted at him and began the pursuit. He bolted and dropped what he had. I continued chasing him until I realized he was now empty handed and may not have been alone. I picked up my stuff and ran back to the house, my neighbor was on the phone to the police still watching the back door and I made my way to the front and also called the police. The police arrived after what felt like an eternity, though it wasn't I'm sure. They checked my house and fortunately he was working alone. My computer, monitor, and a few other things were loaded into a stolen van in the parking lot so I got everything back except a digital camera and mp3 player. I screwed my windows shut (which is how he got in), replaced my deadbolts with ones that needed a key on both sides so if someone got in they couldn't easily haul stuff out, got an alarm system, and a machete is still to this day at my bed side.

Of course, like anyone else, I replayed the scene in my head relentlessly, wondering what I would/could/should have done differently. Much like what the OP did, I think we both did the right thing. Chase them away, make sure they know your home is not worth the risk, and don't leave them with a reason to seek revenge. They know where you live, they know your habits/patterns, and they know who your family is. If you cripple or kill them, and they have low life family members that want revenge, the nightmare has only just begun. I was fortunate that no weapons were involved.

[CLiVE]

One very odd detail is that our Canada Post community Mailbox seems to have been broken into or attempted to be broken into on the same day. Im not sure if they were thinking they would find a credit or debit card mailed to my address and then be able to connect that to documents within the house and try and empty some bank accounts, thats a mystery to me.


Missed this thread also. Glad you are okay.
My house was broken into in February - our Canada Post Community Mailbox was also broken into a few days afterwards. Also found a few discarded needles on my lawn at the same time. All related?

[austic]

That is ballsy chasing armed thieves, did you not consider they might shoot you while you are chasing them? I am glad it worked out for you but if they brought weapons to a B&E which would likely increase their jail time I would be worried they were prepared to use them.

But that is just me.

[Amysicle]

.

[CMW403]

Missed this thread also. Glad you are okay.
My house was broken into in February - our Canada Post Community Mailbox was also broken into a few days afterwards. Also found a few discarded needles on my lawn at the same time. All related?


100%. They hit the mailboxes first to determine how many people occupy the home, what business they're in, habits, etc.

The needles would just be their vile waste left behind while they were casing your house at night.

[CMW403]

That is ballsy chasing armed thieves, did you not consider they might shoot you while you are chasing them? I am glad it worked out for you but if they brought weapons to a B&E which would likely increase their jail time I would be worried they were prepared to use them.

But that is just me.


Surprisingly, as a young adult I have been in WAY worse situations then this. I was held hostage at gun point by 8 individuals, three of which have been on Canadas most wanted list for a few years. They put all kinds of loaded guns to my face, tied me up and beat me for nearly 12 hours, all over $15000 that went missing while I was taking care of a friends dogs while he was away for the weekend. The guy that took the money ended up being the guy that pistol whipped most of my teeth out. Eventually they untied me after relentlessly beating me to a pulp and telling me that I was going to die if I didn't cough up the cash. There have also been a few other serious incidents involving firearms. I definitely hung out with the wrong crowd as a teenager.

Long story short, I have the ability to look into someones eyes and know immediately if they're truly going to pull the trigger or not. Call it my sixth sense.

One thing I can say for sure, as soon as they started running I knew that I had to chase them the fuck out, in fear that one of them would say hey, we can get over on this guy lets turn the fuck around at send a couple rounds into him. It was not bravery or courage, it was pure fight or flight. As soon as I saw the fear in his eyes, he was in flight and I was WAYYYY past fight. I was in kill mode.

To the whoever asked about me catching up to them with my slugger, I would have absolutely 100% beaten all three of them to death. Until their brains were sliding down my driveway. And I would have felt absolutely great about it.

Long story short

[CMW403]

That is ballsy chasing armed thieves, did you not consider they might shoot you while you are chasing them? I am glad it worked out for you but if they brought weapons to a B&E which would likely increase their jail time I would be worried they were prepared to use them.

But that is just me.

Yeah, it was fight or flight. he chose flight, and I was already wayyyyy past fight. I was in kill mode.

[choirboy]

Surprisingly, as a young adult I have been in WAY worse situations then this. I was held hostage at gun point by 8 individuals, three of which have been on Canadas most wanted list for a few years. They put all kinds of loaded guns to my face, tied me up and beat me for nearly 12 hours, all over $15000 that went missing while I was taking care of a friends dogs while he was away for the weekend. The guy that took the money ended up being the guy that pistol whipped most of my teeth out. Eventually they untied me after relentlessly beating me to a pulp and telling me that I was going to die if I didn't cough up the cash. There have also been a few other serious incidents involving firearms. I definitely hung out with the wrong crowd as a teenager.

Long story short, I have the ability to look into someones eyes and know immediately if they're truly going to pull the trigger or not. Call it my sixth sense.

One thing I can say for sure, as soon as they started running I knew that I had to chase them the fuck out, in fear that one of them would say hey, we can get over on this guy lets turn the fuck around at send a couple rounds into him. It was not bravery or courage, it was pure fight or flight. As soon as I saw the fear in his eyes, he was in flight and I was WAYYYY past fight. I was in kill mode.

To the whoever asked about me catching up to them with my slugger, I would have absolutely 100% beaten all three of them to death. Until their brains were sliding down my driveway. And I would have felt absolutely great about it.

Long story short

I would have felt great about that as well. Fleeing or not, a thief who breaks into any home deserves whatever comes as a result of that, even death. The moment anyone breaks into someones home, all bets should be off, even if said theif decides to back away and flee. Their lives are meaningless at the point they break in.

[Shlade]

Surprisingly, as a young adult I have been in WAY worse situations then this. I was held hostage at gun point by 8 individuals, three of which have been on Canadas most wanted list for a few years. They put all kinds of loaded guns to my face, tied me up and beat me for nearly 12 hours, all over $15000 that went missing while I was taking care of a friends dogs while he was away for the weekend. The guy that took the money ended up being the guy that pistol whipped most of my teeth out. Eventually they untied me after relentlessly beating me to a pulp and telling me that I was going to die if I didn't cough up the cash. There have also been a few other serious incidents involving firearms. I definitely hung out with the wrong crowd as a teenager.

:bullshit:

[CMW403]

:bullshit:

yeah you're right

[revelations]

Given how the courts have treated other B-E cases where the defendant was actively defending against (or shooting) these shit heads, had you beaten one of these to death its doubtful anything would have come about this. You had a bat and they had a gun.

Just dont mention anything about the desire to kill to the police or the courts - I know exactly where you are coming from.

[lasimmon]

Given how the courts have treated other B-E cases where the defendant was actively defending against (or shooting) these shit heads, had you beaten one of these to death its doubtful anything would have come about this. You had a bat and they had a gun.

Just dont mention anything about the desire to kill to the police or the courts - I know exactly where you are coming from.

I suspect if you beat someone to death with a baseball bat you will be getting in a lot more trouble than shooting 1 bullet and accidentally killing someone. They are vastly different acts.

[revelations]

I suspect if you beat someone to death with a baseball bat you will be getting in a lot more trouble than shooting 1 bullet and accidentally killing someone. They are vastly different acts.

All it takes is one hit with a bat. They have a gun and you have a bat. If you beat the body beyond recognition for 5 minutes, that might be a bit different.

Also, the numerous BE self defense cases now that have come out of the courts are not all accidental killings or stray bullets.

[CMW403]

Given how the courts have treated other B-E cases where the defendant was actively defending against (or shooting) these shit heads, had you beaten one of these to death its doubtful anything would have come about this. You had a bat and they had a gun.

Just dont mention anything about the desire to kill to the police or the courts - I know exactly where you are coming from.

Its not that I have the desire to kill, it just made me angry enough.

Like I said, I have been in shitty situations before, but when you're at your own home you get used to a level of peace and you let yourself turn off the fight or flight response because you are automatically assuming that you are safe where you are. I can safely say that I will never again let that guard down.