McLaren 600LT

[Buster]

This thing is amazing. I really want one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCzFQy0px7M

[killramos]

But it’s. It’s just money.

[Buster]

But it’s. It’s just money.

Well, not JUST money. Dealer was pretty clear that I couldn't get an allocation.

[Disoblige]

Sometimes I wish I lived in a place with good weather all year round, and also great well maintained roads. I wonder what kinds of cars we would all own if we didn't live in Calgary, or Canada for that matter.
I think many of us would be more willing to splurge on a nice car with those factors in mind.

[killramos]

Don’t they know who you are! Haha

That’s the worst, just like buying a used entry level Ferrari to get a chance at buying a real one letter. Get over yourselves. Completely turned me off the brand.

To be fair, I know a guy who runs a junior who has done very well for himself. Porsche wouldn’t let him buy a gt3 cash in hand lol.

[Buster]

The GT3 isn't really that limited, either. Dealers kinda screwed their customers on the vanilla GT3.

The 600LT, I kinda get that. The company can't win - I really don't think they would get enough for their loyal customers. And how else would you do it?

Ferrari are just dicks for the sake of being dicks.

[killramos]

Fuck it, I’ll buy a C63R.

[Buster]

^ Looks badass.

[killramos]

Jokes aside, looks like an awesome car.

Amazing how Mclaren has really exploded the last 5 years or so.

[C4S]

Another great $350K - $400K specialty track focus vehicle, will give a good run to the Performante and GT2 RS ... would think the Performante is a bargain, but there are lot of them, 20 in Calgary .. (from) not quite exclusive .... the 600LT will probably be a limited production ...

[ickyflex]

Well, not JUST money. Dealer was pretty clear that I couldn't get an allocation.

Try Kulu?

[Buster]

Try Kulu?

Getting one any time soon will mean way way over MSRP.

[Buster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8z3Fg-7VLE

REviews are starting to come out, and it sounds epic.

The 570S is my favorite car, and IMO the best car you can get for under $400,000.

The 600LT must be amazing to be that much of a jump.

[BavarianBeast]

You can get a 600LT allocation no problem. I was told I had to purchase either a new McLaren or a used one from 2016 onwards and would be guaranteed an allocation. Shaun Donnellan is a top notch sales guy in Vancouver if your considering purchasing one.

Tried to order an allocation for an SVJ and was told the same thing essentially. Who would of thought it could be so hard to throw away your money...

[Buster]

BavarianBeast...Ya, I know Shaun pretty well. I was told earlier by Pfaff that you couldn't get an allocation, but I think that has changed as they seem to have no build restrictions on the 600LT, other than it is a one year run. I'd probably just spend the extra on a 720S anyway, but that's me.

As an aside: the McLaren market in Canada is wonky. I think the idea that you need to buy a car to get the allocation is just because Pfaff nationally is sitting on a TON of inventory and its just not moving. Based on the residuals they quote, wholesale and overall depreciation on these things is still normal "McLaren depreciation", but the dealer and individuals are still just sitting on used inventory for months and months rather than going through a true "price discovery" process. What I do know is that while I love the 570S, and would buy one, I also don't want to be sitting on a car that has almost no demand in Canada. I guess that's reason #659 why the States looks really appealing right now. haha

[C4S]

Love to see 600LT vs LP-640! (GT2 RS is in the same blanket, but in reality, $500K+ street price.....)

Great mid-range $350K-400K battle!

With the McLaren dealer open here in Calgary next spring, service will be easier and better.

Look at Lambo, more Lambo in Calgary last few years since the dealer opened just couple year ago, average seeing 2 or 3 Huracan everyday, even more common than 458 or 488!

[BavarianBeast]

I was recently contacted by a sales executive from McLaren Vancouver and he mentioned that it is possible to get a 600LT allocation now without owning/buying a previous McLaren.


Feeling tempted..

[JfuckinC]

I was recently contacted by a sales executive from McLaren Vancouver and he mentioned that it is possible to get a 600LT allocation now without owning/buying a previous McLaren.


Feeling tempted..

Just do it lol

[Buster]

Yup. Do it.

Although speccing one is hard. You quickly get into 720 territory.

[ExtraSlow]

Do it.

[BavarianBeast]

Yeah, I'm waiting to hear back for a quote. guessing well over $80k in options - there's just so many good ones... Has to be a Spyder too I guess. Spec'd out:

84650

[vengie]

Yeah, I'm waiting to hear back for a quote. guessing well over $80k in options - there's just so many good ones... Has to be a Spyder too I guess. Spec'd out:

84650

I have a garage you can start storing these in, although you have to leave the keys ;)

[spikerS]

I have a garage you can start storing these in, although you have to leave the keys ;)

IF he leaves the keys, I won't even charge storage....

[C4S]

$80K+ in options sounds about right for McLaren, Freight & PDI already over $10K, the Senna seat is probably $20K alone, plus $30K in carbon, $25K on some "should have" options, $10-20K in paint/colour/stitching .. $100K in options is easy .. same as Ferrari .. :D

[DustanS]

.

[Buster]

I'd take a 720 over a 600lt.

[DustanS]

.

[Buster]

I haven't driven the 720 but know people who have. It's a unique experience...a bit more comfortable, and bonkers fast.

I've driven 570s, and it is hardcore enough for me. But the 600LT is awesome and getting one is def not a mistake of any kind. But sitting in and around the 720 it feels more supercar than the 570/600 platform.

[BavarianBeast]

So $298,000 + $54,000 in options for 600LT spyder. Thinking about pulling the trigger but knowing that the 600Lt spider is not a limited run has me concerned on resale value in the future. They have one 600LT in black with full options at $380,000 that was a canceled order, but black sucks and no need for half the options. Wonder if an SVJ would be a better buy.. first world problems I tell ya

[Buster]

You're going to get murdered by depreciation on that. Those cars are for the ultra bank people that don't care.

[BavarianBeast]

Maybe. 2016 675LT are still selling for msrp 3 years later with 20,000km+ on them.

[K3RMiTdot]

So $298,000 + $54,000 in options for 600LT spyder. Thinking about pulling the trigger but knowing that the 600Lt spider is not a limited run has me concerned on resale value in the future. They have one 600LT in black with full options at $380,000 that was a canceled order, but black sucks and no need for half the options. Wonder if an SVJ would be a better buy.. first world problems I tell ya

Arent SVJ's over $700K?

[BavarianBeast]

Yeah they are. Can get an allocation with a $50k deposit down.

Trying to see it from an investment/enjoyment standpoint. I know I’ll likely lose money either way, but if I can drive the car for a couple years and only lose 10% on it, it’s a win in my books.

[K3RMiTdot]

Yeah they are. Can get an allocation with a $50k deposit down.

Trying to see it from an investment/enjoyment standpoint. I know I’ll likely lose money either way, but if I can drive the car for a couple years and only lose 10% on it, it’s a win in my books.

Based on the number being made I feel like the SVJ63 is the better investment (if you can get allocation). I think they are making about 900 coupes and 900 Roadsters nearly double of the SV. Maybe the SV is the way to go, if you can snag for the right price :burnout:

[Buster]

Maybe. 2016 675LT are still selling for msrp 3 years later with 20,000km+ on them.

Ya, depends on if you think you can compare them...I dont think you can. I think the 675LT prices are still high, but have come way down?


Canadian market is fucked for Mclaren tho.

[you&me]

Maybe. 2016 675LT are still selling for msrp 3 years later with 20,000km+ on them.

Ha! Correction - The McLaren dealers are still asking close to MSRP for 3 year old 675LTs.

Buyers at this level are savvy enough to look around... No one in Canada is paying anywhere near MSRP for a 2016 675LT when it's clear as day that the same car in the US is selling for ~65% of MSRP, forex and everything else be damned.

Interestingly, the lightly used 720S prices are far more reasonable, relative to other markets...

[Buster]

Ya,t he used market in for late model Mclarens in Canada is hilarious. It (literally) consists of dealer controlled cars sitting at unrealistic asking price for YEARS. No one knows what the real used market is for Macs in Canada because they are almost completely il-liquid.

[vengie]

Get into the Porsche world.
RS car or CGT.

[you&me]

It's too bad because the 600LT seems like a very compelling package... Like the first "God, should I?" McLaren I can think of.

I've always said, it's not so much the price getting in... It's what you can get when it's time to get out. That's the catch with the McLarens...

[Buster]

It's too bad because the 600LT seems like a very compelling package... Like the first "God, should I?" McLaren I can think of.

I've always said, it's not so much the price getting in... It's what you can get when it's time to get out. That's the catch with the McLarens...

I dont mind taking a depreciation hit....it's to be expected. I just want to be able to estimate it within reason. The problem right now with Mac in Canada is I know NO IDEA. If I were to go buy a 570s from Pfaff for anywhere close to their asking price, I'm pretty sure the immediate realized depreciation would be enormous. That is, the actual next marginal buyer out there is not willing to pay anywhere close to their asking prices. You're a bag holder. I was pretty close to pulling the trigger on a 570s this summer after a test drive...but I just didn't have the stomach.

[you&me]

I think we're basically saying the samething... It's the uncertainty of not knowing the cost of depreciation going in that causes many to hesitate, or (worse for McLaren) look elsewhere... A new 488, Huracan or Porsche GT car all have pretty certain depreciation curves that a prospective buyer can use to make part of their buying decision. McLaren's regular series has a pretty predictable rate of depreciation, but it varies between horrible and suicide-inducing... It doesn't help that the dealer here is trying to manipulate the used market, but at least there's a different player in Montreal now and that could open up the market a bit...

[Buster]

I think the Pfaff Mclaren in Montreal split from Pfaff or something?

And ya, we are saying the same thing. I love the cars. At least as much as Ferrari, more than Lambo, and frankly there is no comparison to Porsche GT cars...which are amazing performance but suffer from "every 911 is still a 911" syndrome.

[you&me]

I think the Pfaff Mclaren in Montreal split from Pfaff or something?

And ya, we are saying the same thing. I love the cars. At least as much as Ferrari, more than Lambo, and frankly there is no comparison to Porsche GT cars...which are amazing performance but suffer from "every 911 is still a 911" syndrome.

Pfaff is the Canadian distributor, but as far as I know the Montreal dealer is an independent operation... Mclaren in Vancouver and Toronto are something like "corporate" stores, but still technically separate operations from the distributor.

I think you're being too hard on the Porsche GT cars ;)

[Buster]

Pfaff is the Canadian distributor, but as far as I know the Montreal dealer is an independent operation... Mclaren in Vancouver and Toronto are something like "corporate" stores, but still technically separate operations from the distributor.

I think you're being too hard on the Porsche GT cars ;)

The Porsche GT cars are amazing, on a technical level. I have the utmost respect for them. Didn't want to sound like I don't. They don't stir my inner 12 year old, is all.

The Montreal store USED to be a "Pfaff" labelled store, I'm sure of it.

[BavarianBeast]

I've wanted to get into a GT car for the last 5 years and have tried just about every dealership in Canada. It's never a good experience, it's always just "We'll put you on a list, but were never going to call you back." . Telling Porsche that you'll pay cash for any allocation over a 5 year period and not getting squat is just bullshit. Literally can't even throw money at them to get into the car you want.

[Buster]

It's genius marketing.

[killramos]

If you like beetles.

That being said I have thought about putting my name down for a next gen GT4.

[asp integra]

You can get a 720S for 400k it looks like
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/city-of-toronto/2019-mclaren-720s-sport-exhaust-carbo/1382376988?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[BavarianBeast]

2018s with a couple thousand km sell for about $380,000. Not too bad.

But imo if your going to buy a McLaren it’s got to be a colour that pops. Yellow, orange, bright blue, purple, green, etc..

Good luck Killramos, hope you have better luck than I. Try and avoid dealing with Colton, he's about as useful as a dull knife.

[you&me]

I've wanted to get into a GT car for the last 5 years and have tried just about every dealership in Canada. It's never a good experience, it's always just "We'll put you on a list, but were never going to call you back." . Telling Porsche that you'll pay cash for any allocation over a 5 year period and not getting squat is just bullshit. Literally can't even throw money at them to get into the car you want.

You can throw money at them, but it involves paying market price after an original owner has taken delivery...

The fact that you can't get an allocation on a GT car from a Porsche dealer and that GT prices stay buoyant years after release combined with the fact that McLaren is pushing their latest and greatest on you should tell you everything you need to know regarding the price resilience on a 600LT.

Knowing that, if you still want one, I don't think anyone would say it's a bad choice... Maybe just an expensive one

[Buster]

When I was at the Mac dealer a few months ago they told me that they wouldn't offer me a 600lt ...I felt like telling them I looked forward to their call in a few months.

Having said that the car is better than anything Porsche is making right now imo.

I do wonder when the 570 used market is going to capitulate like the 12c market did

[JfuckinC]

You can get a 720S for 400k it looks like
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/city-of-toronto/2019-mclaren-720s-sport-exhaust-carbo/1382376988?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

i must say, i do not like that car in white....

[C4S]

The used Market for current McLaren is somewhat "normal" now, only those Porsche "GT" vehicles are somewhat abnormal, and some Ferrari (V8 mid engine) still maintain their value so strong, not their V12 models ..

Most McLaren 570S loaded are ~ $275-280K retail, (somewhat $50K less than Lambo 610 and $100K less than 488) now t2016 models are going for $210-220K, somewhat 20-25% dropped in value in ~ 3 year, which is similar to Lambo, 911 Turbo S, AMG, M car, ZR1, etc, and better than Bentley/Aston .. Resell value for 720S is still strong, but still not Porsche GT or Ferrari 488.

Well, put in km/dollar, we are still talking $70-80K for just 10,000km or less, which is a lot of money .... :facepalm: but imagine those who spent $450K for a Vanquish, with 10,000km, sold for $150K ... Ouch! :guns:

The 12C/MP4/650S are victims in depreciation .. but 12C/MP4 are well know problematic ...650S are much more reliable, but consider 650S were over $400K new, now they are going for $250K area for a 4 yr old 2015 .. kind of bargain compare to the slower 488 still $380-400K for a used one!

I think outrageous service cost for McLaren is the problem, while ~ $1,000 oil service for a Lambo and Ferrari is expensive, McLaren is even more! And not much alternative .. (probably some good reputation shops such as Alpine, Regal will work on McLaren)

[killramos]

84709

One day...

[BavarianBeast]

You can throw money at them, but it involves paying market price after an original owner has taken delivery...

The fact that you can't get an allocation on a GT car from a Porsche dealer and that GT prices stay buoyant years after release combined with the fact that McLaren is pushing their latest and greatest on you should tell you everything you need to know regarding the price resilience on a 600LT.

Knowing that, if you still want one, I don't think anyone would say it's a bad choice... Maybe just an expensive one

Some good points, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with your logic. Most peoTple could get a handle on a 675LT when they came out if they wanted one. 600LT spyder will still be limited production, just at a larger scale than the coupe. I still think there's potential for appreciation or very little depreciation. The R8 RWS wasn't exactly hard to get a handle on, and I was just offered slightly above MSRP(mind you, I have installed titanium exhaust) to sell mine locally

Here's a proper 720S spec imo.. https://www.autotrader.ca/a/mclaren/720s/richmond/british%20columbia/5_42456706_20170808162155129/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ncse=no&orup=6_12_0&pc=T3E%205C8&sprx=100

I don't think the 570s will go down to mp4-12c levels. The MP4-12cs had a variety of mechanical issues, and owning them past 20,000km has caused a lot of expenses for owners.

[C4S]

Fistral Blue is stunning!

With that much MSO options .. probably pushing to $430K MSRP .. :drool:

Just kind of surprise so many used McLaren for sale already .. even the 720S! (there is no faster nor "better" vehicle now, wonder if someone drives 720S now, what is next!?)

[BavarianBeast]

Absolutely perfect spec imo.
After a 720s, you've gotta get the senna. Or move onto Pagani, Koenigsegg.

[you&me]

The 720S Spider is coming too, so there are probably a lot of owners pre-selling before their next one arrives

[Misterman]

I thought there was a lot of uncertainty coming in the used hypercar market based off what I've been hearing? These things are all starting to come to the end of their warranty periods, so people are worried the values will drop out for used ones with no warranty.

The entire used market for these cars is a bit of weird one. You would think most people who are affording these high value used examples could most likely afford new as well. So who is the target demographic purchasing these used models? Obviously there is still people who aren't flat out rich, and prefer to save money where they can, I would just think that's the minority when it comes to this type of car market. Could be wrong though.

[you&me]

I thought there was a lot of uncertainty coming in the used hypercar market based off what I've been hearing? These things are all starting to come to the end of their warranty periods, so people are worried the values will drop out for used ones with no warranty.

The entire used market for these cars is a bit of weird one. You would think most people who are affording these high value used examples could most likely afford new as well. So who is the target demographic purchasing these used models? Obviously there is still people who aren't flat out rich, and prefer to save money where they can, I would just think that's the minority when it comes to this type of car market. Could be wrong though.

There are a lot of problems with the hybrid drivetrains starting to come to light from the recent batch of hyper cars. Anecdotally, I know of one P1 that just had the battery and some of the other hybrid components replaced... for just under US$200k. The LaFerraris have battery issues and one former 918 owner has told me he's hearing of some problems that Porsche is desperately trying to keep under wraps while they integrate some of the trickle down 918 tech into upcoming versions of the 992...

It's interesting because the uncertainty regarding the hybrid drivetrains is a new factor in the supercar market dynamics. Typically, coming off of warranty isn't a major drag on values, but these drivetrains are a major question mark with expensive consequences.

Otherwise, the market for these hyper cars is simply driven by supply and demand... It's not about "affording" something, it's about being able to actually get one. Crazy things happen when you tell a very wealthy person that they can't have something they want.

[Misterman]

Otherwise, the market for these hyper cars is simply driven by supply and demand... It's not about "affording" something, it's about being able to actually get one. Crazy things happen when you tell a very wealthy person that they can't have something they want.

Absolutely. This is why the Porsche GT cars hold so much value. Is it really that hard to get a new McLaren though? Obviously this 600LT Spyder is looking to be a limited production model, but I didn't think it was too tricky to go get a 720s or 650. It's the McLaren market specifically I was curious about, as others mentioned it seems like they just try to artificially keep the market propped up with high asking prices. But what sort of deals are being made behind closed doors? Or are these cars ever even getting sold?

[beyond_ban]

Absolutely. This is why the Porsche GT cars hold so much value. Is it really that hard to get a new McLaren though? Obviously this 600LT Spyder is looking to be a limited production model, but I didn't think it was too tricky to go get a 720s or 650. It's the McLaren market specifically I was curious about, as others mentioned it seems like they just try to artificially keep the market propped up with high asking prices. But what sort of deals are being made behind closed doors? Or are these cars ever even getting sold?

You mentioned hypercar, which elicited the response you got. Porsche GT and McLaren sport - supersport range may be supercars, but still an echelon beneath hypercar territory.

[BavarianBeast]

Yeah the P1 and Senna would be McLaren Hypercars imo.

Getting into a 720s/650s is no problem these days. When the 720s came our, there was a long wait but now you can put in an order no problem.

[you&me]

Absolutely. This is why the Porsche GT cars hold so much value. Is it really that hard to get a new McLaren though? Obviously this 600LT Spyder is looking to be a limited production model, but I didn't think it was too tricky to go get a 720s or 650. It's the McLaren market specifically I was curious about, as others mentioned it seems like they just try to artificially keep the market propped up with high asking prices. But what sort of deals are being made behind closed doors? Or are these cars ever even getting sold?

Limited, in almost any case except for some Ferraris means actually numbered, like 1-of-XXX. Most "special" series cars (like the Porsche GT cars, the LT McLarens, etc) see a premium when they're first available, but that has more to do with rich guys wanting to out-do their friends by having something cool before their other rich friends do (this is far more common in the states, particularly around Miami and LA)... Typically these premiums are short lived and only last as long as it takes to satisfy the very rich "gotta have it now" crowd (Porsche 991 GT2RS premiums have dropped by
~75% in 6 months!).

The McLarens, outside of the P1 and Senna (and Speedtail) are not hard to get. That's been McLaren's problem since the start. They had sooooo much brand equity built up from the halo of the F1, but they couldn't manage the supply of their new cars and instead raced to sell cars and over-supplied the market (the styling of the 12C didn't help either). If McLaren had instead originally come out with the 650S (basically better looking 12C) and had the patience to produce it in a limited quantity, say 1000 units over 3 years, their brand and resale values would be much stronger... That would have set them up nicely to then rolled out the limited LT series cars that would have had more prestige and eventually move downmarket with the 570/40s.

The market in Canada is separate and different in a lot of ways from the scenarios I mentioned before. The fact that we have a distributor also acting as the point of sale (and they have a massive lease portfolio that's probably holding the bag on a lot non-existent equity!) causes a lot of distortion. Eventually the market will sort this out - either the prices will drop to be in line with the relative depreciation seen in the US market, or suddenly a bunch of wealthy Canadians figure they really want a McLaren and don't care about relatively overpaying... I think I know which of those is less likely.

(Sorry for the jumbled post - this is what happens when I try and post between calls and other tasks - hope it makes some sense!)

Coles notes - no, no non-Ultimate Series Mclaren is currently hard to get, including the 600LT. This is at least partially McLaren's own doing, because they mismanaged their production car launch.

[Misterman]

You mentioned hypercar, which elicited the response you got. Porsche GT and McLaren sport - supersport range may be supercars, but still an echelon beneath hypercar territory.

Maybe I used the wrong terminology. My bad. I was just speaking out loud about what I've been hearing on all these supercars that are being talked about in here.

I'm trying to decide myself which way to go. I don't want to buy a McLaren 720s whose value is about to crap out a month after I buy it. Not sure I even want to go the McLaren route though anyway, thinking a Gallardo that's easier to tinker with in the garage might be more suitable for my tendencies.

[you&me]

Maybe I used the wrong terminology. My bad. I was just speaking out loud about what I've been hearing on all these supercars that are being talked about in here.

I'm trying to decide myself which way to go. I don't want to buy a McLaren 720s whose value is about to crap out a month after I buy it. Not sure I even want to go the McLaren route though anyway, thinking a Gallardo that's easier to tinker with in the garage might be more suitable for my tendencies.

I don't want to crap in your cornflakes, but I would put a Gallardo way (way way) down the list of fun cars I'd drop $100-150k on...

[Buster]

Limited, in almost any case except for some Ferraris means actually numbered, like 1-of-XXX. Most "special" series cars (like the Porsche GT cars, the LT McLarens, etc) see a premium when they're first available, but that has more to do with rich guys wanting to out-do their friends by having something cool before their other rich friends do (this is far more common in the states, particularly around Miami and LA)... Typically these premiums are short lived and only last as long as it takes to satisfy the very rich "gotta have it now" crowd (Porsche 991 GT2RS premiums have dropped by
~75% in 6 months!).

The McLarens, outside of the P1 and Senna (and Speedtail) are not hard to get. That's been McLaren's problem since the start. They had sooooo much brand equity built up from the halo of the F1, but they couldn't manage the supply of their new cars and instead raced to sell cars and over-supplied the market (the styling of the 12C didn't help either). If McLaren had instead originally come out with the 650S (basically better looking 12C) and had the patience to produce it in a limited quantity, say 1000 units over 3 years, their brand and resale values would be much stronger... That would have set them up nicely to then rolled out the limited LT series cars that would have had more prestige and eventually move downmarket with the 570/40s.

The market in Canada is separate and different in a lot of ways from the scenarios I mentioned before. The fact that we have a distributor also acting as the point of sale (and they have a massive lease portfolio that's probably holding the bag on a lot non-existent equity!) causes a lot of distortion. Eventually the market will sort this out - either the prices will drop to be in line with the relative depreciation seen in the US market, or suddenly a bunch of wealthy Canadians figure they really want a McLaren and don't care about relatively overpaying... I think I know which of those is less likely.

(Sorry for the jumbled post - this is what happens when I try and post between calls and other tasks - hope it makes some sense!)

Coles notes - no, no non-Ultimate Series Mclaren is currently hard to get, including the 600LT. This is at least partially McLaren's own doing, because they mismanaged their production car launch.

You're describing the business model of Pagani, or perhaps Koenigsegg. McLaren never really wanted to be in that space. They wanted to be niche, but somewhat higher volume. I think those are two very different manufacturing and marketing propositions. McLaren's model requires some degree of volume.

In most other cases, the supply constraints in the supercar/sports car market are completely fake. McLaren tried to do it with me personally on the 600LT. The 675LT was hard to get, but isn't really now. Ferrari's 1ofxxx strategy is also fake - I think we know now that they lie about their production numbers. Porsche will churn out as many GT cars as can get ordered nowadays. As for Canada - I think a lot of the dealer-offered 570s for sale are actually consignment...soon to shift to lease returns. I wonder what the trade-in conversations look like between a current Sport Series owner and the McLaren dealer here look like. I don't really think there is ANY "wholesale" price for a 570 at this point. They simply aren't bought and sold in the open market. There are ZERO private sales on autotrader right now.

[C4S]

:clap::clap:

Here you go!

Just out! Review from Doug!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfdrS_HbB6c

[Misterman]

I don't want to crap in your cornflakes, but I would put a Gallardo way (way way) down the list of fun cars I'd drop $100-150k on...

Yeah of course. If I didn't know what my plans were to do with it I'd say the same thing lol

[bjstare]

:clap::clap:

Here you go!

Just out! Review from Doug!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfdrS_HbB6c

Demuro doesn't produce reviews. He just regurgitates the owners manual for 20+ minutes.

[Buster]

:clap::clap:

Here you go!

Just out! Review from Doug!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfdrS_HbB6c

That car looks so bad.

Who green-lit those wheels!?!

[beyond_ban]

That car looks so bad.

Who green-lit those wheels!?!

Thinking the exact same... tasteless "look at me" spec

[BavarianBeast]

Would be that bad if it wasn’t for the Lamborghini style wheels.

[beyond_ban]

Different wheels and in black. Can't get behind the random splash of silver on the wheels alone.

[Buster]

Would be that bad if it wasn’t for the Lamborghini style wheels.

Yup.

I also prefer a cleaner look without the aero. I usually prefer the early versions of a car design... Before the marketing guys get a hold of it and start tacking on body kits. Same reason I bought an amg gts instead of the amg gtr.

[killramos]

Yup.

I also prefer a cleaner look without the aero. I usually prefer the early versions of a car design... Before the marketing guys get a hold of it and start tacking on body kits. Same reason I bought an amg gts instead of the amg gtr.

But the Gt-C is just sex with that rear widebody...

[Buster]

But the Gt-C is just sex with that rear widebody...

That's what I'm saying...I prefer the narrow body from a design perspective.

[killramos]

I never got the C until I drove behind one for 10 minutes one day. Sold.

[Buster]

Well I wouldn't kick it out of bed for eating crackers.

[you&me]

You're describing the business model of Pagani, or perhaps Koenigsegg. McLaren never really wanted to be in that space. They wanted to be niche, but somewhat higher volume. I think those are two very different manufacturing and marketing propositions. McLaren's model requires some degree of volume.

In most other cases, the supply constraints in the supercar/sports car market are completely fake. McLaren tried to do it with me personally on the 600LT. The 675LT was hard to get, but isn't really now. Ferrari's 1ofxxx strategy is also fake - I think we know now that they lie about their production numbers. Porsche will churn out as many GT cars as can get ordered nowadays. As for Canada - I think a lot of the dealer-offered 570s for sale are actually consignment...soon to shift to lease returns. I wonder what the trade-in conversations look like between a current Sport Series owner and the McLaren dealer here look like. I don't really think there is ANY "wholesale" price for a 570 at this point. They simply aren't bought and sold in the open market. There are ZERO private sales on autotrader right now.



Regarding the market in Canada, we totally agree and, again, are basically saying the same thing... The marks, er, buyers of the 570s and 720s are holding the bag (your term I think) and the dealers don't know what to do with used cars coming back in when they've got piles of inventory, sometimes available at a heavy discount. There is a well-defined wholesale market on the 570s in the US, which certainly influences the wholesale offers in Canada. Wholesale on any exotic in Canada is a bit of a game, as there are really only a handful of guys that will cut a cheque and if the owner's aren't willing to take those offers, you end up with a bunch of cars being consigned as a "pre-trade" before the mark, er, owner's next McLaren arrives (just as we've both said).

Regarding Mclaren, there is a balance that can be achieved between mass market over supply and the niche of automotive jewelry that is Pagani and Koenigsegg where production is counted in the dozens per year - Ferrari did it masterfully right up until they went public.

What I'm saying about McLaren is essentially something I'm regurgitating from a long conversation I had with a multi-franchise McLaren dealer just a few days ago (a timely thread topic on beyond.ca, no doubt). He's been there almost from the start and knows all the gory details of how the sausage is made, so to speak. What he said (and has said by him and many others for years) is that Mclaren would have been well served to have more closely followed Ferraris playbook (Enzo famously said he'd build one less car than he could sell). They already had the strong racing heritage and the halo granted by the F1 is unmatched by modern cars. Instead, the 12C was a miss in the styling and noise department and they rushed out too many cars, to too many dealers, too quickly. The early adopters got burned and no one's forgotten it since... It's not the end of the world - there are plenty of people that don't mind losing $100 or $200k over a couple years of ownership and just consider it the cost of entry - but they'd rather not. I think it's hard to argue that making a sacrifice in the first few years as a automaker would probably have McLaren (and their dealers) in a better position today.

But hey, if McLaren had done all that, this thread probably wouldn't exist for a couple of reasons 1) buying the new 600LT would be a no-brainer from a driving, ownership and financial point of view and 2) BB, as someone that's new to the brand, wouldn't even be offered the opportunity :devil:

Anyways, I'm sorry for dragging this way off topic. I've thought about it more, watched some youtube videos on the 600LT and now I've got to say - DO IT, BB! :bigpimp:

[Buster]

I think you're right, you&me, and your thoughts are insightful and knowledgeable. We're doing a bad job at internet-ing by making this a reasonable discussion instead of finding a conflict and throwing feces. But I digress.

The McLaren situation is so unique...I don't think anyone has attempted to compete in that market without decades of retail automotive experience, and a ton of battle scars: Ferrari, Aston, Lambo, and PorscheGT/AudiR8 (recently). McLaren's real challenge in your "start slow" scenario is that it would be enormously capital intensive to sustain a high-volume retail environment, but remain a low volume manufacturer. They needed the original sell-through volume to build out and justify the infrastructure. It kinda, sorta worked.

In terms of the Canadian vs American market, I think there are pretty big structural differences that account for that, and cultural difference. For instance, Americans have access to MUCH better financing systems for cars (Penfed, etc), compared to Canadians. Exotic car lending in Canada is hilariously rudimentary and expensive. So Canadian dealers and people flipping used are limited to cash payers, or people with their own assets and credit facilities. In addition, Americans are far more inclined to punch up their weight class when it comes to an exotic car (in addition to being able to finance them). So you get people with relatively less wealth spending a larger % of their income on a car like a McLaren. The upshot is that I bet the average McLaren owner in the US is probably a 1%er (or maybe less), and I bet the average McLaren owner in Canada is a 0.1%er in terms of earning. (Use whatever figures here you think make sense). Combine that the higher inherent population and volume differences, and you have a much more transparent marketplace.

Also: the owner's/dealers attempt to manage pricing on the supply side is failing miserable. A 570 search on autotrader is on of my bookmark tabs which I check daily. And it's the same old cars sitting around month after month. Every once in a while, they adjust it by a few thousand. Someday you're going to have to realize the paper loss guys. I haven't even bothered to put offers in on cars, as I'm sure I'd be perceived as an asshole lowballer.

[you&me]

Just thought I would add something - lightly used 600LT coupes in the US, that have been on the ground for all of a month, are selling for a discount to MSRP.

[BavarianBeast]

Yeah I’ve been seeing that too. Decided to sit out on ordering one.

Need 12 cylinders

[Buster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyXcS0vGNdM

[C4S]

Love to see 600LT vs 488 Pista vs Performante!

Can't say $375K is a bargain, but consider actual going price for GT2RS and Pista are $600K + and how many Performante on the road, this is pretty good!

[Buster]

Love to see 600LT vs 488 Pista vs Performante!

Can't say $375K is a bargain, but consider actual going price for GT2RS and Pista are $600K + and how many Performante on the road, this is pretty good!

I'd take either of these over a Performante for sure. Really that's based on looks for me, though. The big chunky rear end of the Huracan just doesn't work and never has for me.

[C4S]

We are all happy to buy GT2 RS and Pista at MSRP ... lol :angel:

Indeed, I think the AMG GTR is the way to go as a special track machine! (Still ok to drive regularly, and good price!)

[Buster]

I happen to be partial to AMG gt myself lol.

[BavarianBeast]

Coupe allocation now available from Vancouver if anybody wants it!

[you&me]

Coupe allocation now available from Vancouver if anybody wants it!

Discounts and lease deals next month...

[CMW403]

I happen to be partial to AMG gt myself lol.

But the McLaren can roast weenies over the engine boot in roughly three to six blaps of the throttle...

You gotta throw out majorrrr points for that man

[Buster]

But the McLaren can roast weenies over the engine boot in roughly three to six blaps of the throttle...

You gotta throw out majorrrr points for that man

Id definitely take a 600lt over the amg gtr
..I just said that because I own a gt

[NewLextasy]

I don't post much here anymore but I read threads everyday still . And this one caught my attention as a big McLaren fan and current owner . I actually spoke with buster on the McLaren forums last year when he was looking for a 570s .

I would say dont be scared about resale , just buy what you like and enjoy the shit out if it . And as for service and maintenance, McLaren is far cheaper then lambo or Ferrari. My aventador oil change was 1k and my McLaren was 675$

600lt is a really nice car but if you are on the fence Buster between that and a 720s . It's a no brainer , the 720s is absolutely by far the best car under 1mill right now . I loved my 570s and thought it was amazing until I bought a 720s . Just not comparable and kills lamborghinis stale car line up and I wont even talk about Ferrari.

Any one seriously interested in a McLaren should hit up Shaun in Vancouver and go check them out. By far the best customer service and brand to deal with these days .

I attached a pic of my Vorstiener 570s I built and my new 720s I picked up a few weeks ago. The 720s will have over 1000hp next month as well .

[Buster]

awesome, thanks for posting. Did you trade the 570 back to MV? Shaun was great to deal with, and I wouldn't hesitate to deal with that store in general....was quite impressed. I'm always afraid of resale because I'm anal. But in reality, life has just gotten really busy and I haven't had as much time to think about cars as I did even last year. So I've been procrastinating a bit on getting back to them.

I'm not even sure how much driving I'm going to be doing this summer, and I'm seriously contemplating selling the AMG GTS and buying a McLaren or something else.

That 720 looks fantastic. It really is more than I want to be spending on a car though.

[NewLextasy]

I hear you about life getting busy , as for the 570s no I actually sold it privately. It wasn't even for sale but I had a guy reach out a few times asking what I wanted for it so I finally just told him 330k and he could have it.
He didn't even hesitate and bought it. Highest sold 570s ever , can't even option them out to that price brand new.

[C4S]

Awesome! Stunning!Nice spec'ed 720S !! :eek::eek::eek:

I love the 720S so much! It looked weird ~ 2 yr ago when launched, but it looks stunning in person, so dynamic, it looks so "super car" when next to Huracan/488/911 GT whatever ... I still think the 650S/P1 front end look the best! :rolleyes:

At $450K, yes, lots of money, still a lot less than Avan S, 812 etc ... $350-400K, 600LT is the way to go, and for under $300k, 570S is quite a bargain!

Once the Mclaren service opens in Calgary in April, running cost should drop quite a bit!

Depreciation is horrible, but not worse than Aston, Bentley, AMG, Mcars, say $30-40K a year, somewhat reasonable to play .. however, may be only 60 day a year in Calgary can drive!

If worry about resell, then everyone wears Rolex .. LOL :bigpimp:

[vengie]

Damn Newlexstasy, what a stable!

Any pics of the other cars??

[BavarianBeast]

I hear you about life getting busy , as for the 570s no I actually sold it privately. It wasn't even for sale but I had a guy reach out a few times asking what I wanted for it so I finally just told him 330k and he could have it.
He didn't even hesitate and bought it. Highest sold 570s ever , can't even option them out to that price brand new.

That’s always nice, good sell! The vorsteiner kits look awesome on the 570s. Would make most

Black 720s looks like a stealth bomber too. Are you getting an SVJ allocation by chance?

[NewLextasy]

Thanks , No Svj for me . Honestly I love Lamborghini and I have owned a Gallardo , lp640 roadster , Lp560 and the aventador and I feel the current model line up is stale . They are falling behind and need a new car asap. They are good at slapping a new bumper and tune on their cars and riding them out for 10 years.

Right now McLaren is just so far ahead I dont have any interest in any other current brand/car.

[C4S]

https://youtu.be/l6_LrVGR0-k

Good result!