Does insurance cover your "extras/addons?"

[Kloubek]

So as some of you know my SECOND Jaguar XF was in an yet another rearend accident, and it's also a write-off according to my insurance company. They have yet to provide me with an offer.

My question is as per the title: Does insurance also cover you from loss of things that were installed on the car? Counting the Quicksilver exhaust, my car had thousands of extras on it and I'm hoping insurance will recognize those and cover me for them. Do I need pictures of said extras? Receipts? Am I SOL for customizing my car?

[killramos]

Did you disclose the add ons when you insured the car?

Typically I get the question of “does the vehicle have any modifications applied”, to which I answer XXX and they ask me how much they cost. This gets factored in to replacement cost, probably affecting premiums along the way, and it’s all properly documented for situations like this.

[Kloubek]

I likely got the question when I first insured the car, but no - I did not tell them after I added these pieces.

[Masked Bandit]

For all intents and purposes, no.

Adding $2500 in random aftermarket parts does not increase its genuine market value by $2500. Additionally the insurance company charged premium based on the assumption your car was stock, you can't very well expect them to now pay more than they were anticipating. In theory you could disclose all aftermarket goodies, premiums would increase BUUUUT you're still only insured for pennies on the dollar.

[dirtsniffer]

You can be reimbursed for recent maintenance though. Within the last year I think it's 50% of the cost. I wouldn't bring it up until the value is settled

[FraserB]

For all intents and purposes, no.

Adding $2500 in random aftermarket parts does not increase its genuine market value by $2500. Additionally the insurance company charged premium based on the assumption your car was stock, you can't very well expect them to now pay more than they were anticipating. In theory you could disclose all aftermarket goodies, premiums would increase BUUUUT you're still only insured for pennies on the dollar.

That would only apply in an at-fault accident? If it’s the other party’s insurance paying, wouldn’t it be them replacing the car as it existed right before the accident, regardless of what the non at-fault party had been paying for?

[dirtsniffer]

the problem is it is hard to value what is added by an aftermarket accessory such as an exhaust. Many would argue that mods like that do nothing to increase value.

[ExtraSlow]

This is why it's best to have vehicles that are worth less than stock...... #beaterlyfe

[HiSpec]

You can be reimbursed for recent maintenance though. Within the last year I think it's 50% of the cost. I wouldn't bring it up until the value is settled

What if let's say your exhaust had a hole and you replaced it with an aftermarket exhaust as a maintenace item. Will this increase the payout if an invoice is provided?

[FraserB]

the problem is it is hard to value what is added by an aftermarket accessory such as an exhaust. Many would argue that mods like that do nothing to increase value.

True, but the argument would be that the at fault party has to make the other whole. If I have a truck with a lift kit, aftermarket tires and a nice bumper on it, it would be very hard for the company to argue that they only owe me a stock model after their insured wrote my truck off.

If it was my company saying that I had been paying for a stock truck and the mods are on me, I see that as completely reasonable.

[Masked Bandit]

Fault is irrelevant. Whether it's your company paying you for your car or the other guy's company paying for your car, nothing changes. The vehicle is assessed at market value, not what you SPENT on the car. A $10,000 car, bought for $12,000 (cuz you're a sucker) plus $5,000 in aftermarket exhaust is still just a $10,000, MAYYYYBE $11,000 car on the open market and that's all you'll be paid on.

[ExtraSlow]

Fault is irrelevant. Whether it's your company paying you for your car or the other guy's company paying for your car, nothing changes. The vehicle is assessed at market value, not what you SPENT on the car. A $10,000 car, bought for $12,000 (cuz you're a sucker) plus $5,000 in aftermarket exhaust is still just a $10,000, MAYYYYBE $11,000 car on the open market and that's all you'll be paid on.

The flip side of this is that if you got a screaming deal, you can be paid out MORE than your initial cost. Has happened to me.

[killramos]

I think fault is relevant if you wanted to sue the other party to recoup your losses, but they are almost certainly going to fight it and you will end up out way more to try and win than it will be worth...

[Kloubek]

The flip side of this is that if you got a screaming deal, you can be paid out MORE than your initial cost. Has happened to me.

I paid 18g for my last one, and they paid me out 25g. They have yet to contact me but this one had 75k on the odo instead of the 55k the last one had, so I expect less but I'm going to try to use that previous example as a basis of what they should be paying me this time. I was hoping I could mention the "extras" I had on this car to try to drive them up closer to the 25k mark again, but I'm probably going to have to get a bit less for this one.

[FraserB]

Fault is irrelevant. Whether it's your company paying you for your car or the other guy's company paying for your car, nothing changes. The vehicle is assessed at market value, not what you SPENT on the car. A $10,000 car, bought for $12,000 (cuz you're a sucker) plus $5,000 in aftermarket exhaust is still just a $10,000, MAYYYYBE $11,000 car on the open market and that's all you'll be paid on.

So is there a formula for depreciation on modifications then? Or do they just say that because they can find a stock version of your vehicle for a lot less, you don’t get made while for what you actually owned?

[Masked Bandit]

So is there a formula for depreciation on modifications then? Or do they just say that because they can find a stock version of your vehicle for a lot less, you don’t get made while for what you actually owned?

I don't know if there's an actual formula per se because I've never worked in a claims department but I've seen settlements where an aftermarket exhaust for example was added and the client didn't receive a single penny more for their car. The explanation was that replacing exhaust is just general maintenance & upkeep, if you chose to spend triple the normal value that's your problem.

[loweg]

Hit a deer last year in a forester sti that had some pretty simple modifications , exhaust , seats, spoiler, stereo, wheels, coilovers, I Bought it for 4500, they offered to write it off for 9000, I asked about the mods and they said that they gave a value for a stock car. they said they were fine with me taking stuff off as long as they got a full car.

Took off everything, and more before they picked it up. Only had a couple days or I could have done even better, but took off alll those items and sold them separate as well as putting 50.00 rims on with washers as spacers, and seats out of my alley that two bolts hit.

Month later it’s on Kijiji for 4900, same rims and probably washers

[ExtraSlow]

Hit a deer last year in a forester sti that had some pretty simple modifications , exhaust , seats, spoiler, stereo, wheels, coilovers, I Bought it for 4500, they offered to write it off for 9000, I asked about the mods and they said that they gave a value for a stock car. they said they were fine with me taking stuff off as long as they got a full car.

Took off everything, and more before they picked it up. Only had a couple days or I could have done even better, but took off alll those items and sold them separate as well as putting 50.00 rims on with washers as spacers, and seats out of my alley that two bolts hit.

Month later it’s on Kijiji for 4900, same rims and probably washers

That's pretty sketchy making it less safe in non-obvious ways for personal profit.

[dirtsniffer]

What if let's say your exhaust had a hole and you replaced it with an aftermarket exhaust as a maintenace item. Will this increase the payout if an invoice is provided?

In my experience yes. But I've only ever done base maintenance and replaced in kind. Trying to say a titanium exhaust was maintenance would be a tough sell I'd expect.

[loweg]

That's pretty sketchy making it less safe in non-obvious ways for personal profit.

Ya.... went to auction and you couldn’t start it or see through the windshield ..... if someone drove it then that’s on them .... lol

It got tugged onto a tow truck and I never gave them the key

[rage2]

Fault is irrelevant. Whether it's your company paying you for your car or the other guy's company paying for your car, nothing changes. The vehicle is assessed at market value, not what you SPENT on the car. A $10,000 car, bought for $12,000 (cuz you're a sucker) plus $5,000 in aftermarket exhaust is still just a $10,000, MAYYYYBE $11,000 car on the open market and that's all you'll be paid on.
Back when I was still a car guy modding cars, I had my completed project cars appraised and insured at the appraised value. Premiums were obviously higher for this. I never had to make a claim, but I assume if I did, I would be getting the appraised value back?

I had to provide the full appraisal booklet with photos of absolutely everything.

[ercchry]

I’m pretty sure if you’re not at fault the entire point of any insurance (hell, even the basis of any lawsuit) is to make you whole again, you had a 1992 civic with a solid gold cock shaped shift knob, that’s what you get back!

It’s liability coverage, it’s up to a set amount. All losses will come out of it. ie. I was hit on the motorcycle a few years back, had on like $3k worth of shit that got ruined, it was as simple as showing (and then actually giving up) the adjuster the ruined pieces, and what it would cost me to order a replacement, that was it. Not “oh, sorry sir but you had on raw denim... we just cover basic pants... so here is $19.95 for some Walmart wranglers”

[Masked Bandit]

Back when I was still a car guy modding cars, I had my completed project cars appraised and insured at the appraised value. Premiums were obviously higher for this. I never had to make a claim, but I assume if I did, I would be getting the appraised value back?

I had to provide the full appraisal booklet with photos of absolutely everything.

Assuming the policy was set up correctly, yes. The entire point of submitting a proper appraisal is so that the vehicle is insured for the appraised amount and there's no arguing over the value.

[Kloubek]

Man, even without my extras they are trying to screw me hard on this one. They are using base model XFs with 50% extra mileage as "comparables". Clearly, that's not a comparable value. I complained to the appraiser of these discrepancies but he's sticking firm on his original offer and I have no idea how he can justify that.

Gonna have to work up the chain...

[rx7boi]

That's typically the way the game goes. They're not there to be your friend.

What's the car worth and what did they offer you?

[Kloubek]

That's typically the way the game goes. They're not there to be your friend.

What's the car worth and what did they offer you?

The last one had 55k but no adaptive cruise, and they gave me 25k. At 75k one year later I'm thinking 22k is fair. They are offering 16.5k which is what I could buy the "comparables" for but not a low k supercharged.

I know the game is to go back and forth but they arent even playing. They ignore me when I ask why they arent using legit comparables.

[mr2mike]

Find US versions for sale too. Use X-rates to apply CDN$ and keep arguing.

[Kloubek]

Find US versions for sale too. Use X-rates to apply CDN$ and keep arguing.

They are claiming they can't use examples outside of the province.

(Which is amusing, considering that's exactly what they did for my first writeoff).

They are really trying every angle to NOT pay out on this one...

[rx7boi]

The last one had 55k but no adaptive cruise, and they gave me 25k. At 75k one year later I'm thinking 22k is fair. They are offering 16.5k which is what I could buy the "comparables" for but not a low k supercharged.

I know the game is to go back and forth but they arent even playing. They ignore me when I ask why they arent using legit comparables.

Man, what a bunch of dinks. Hopefully you can move upwards and cut through all the bullshit.

When I had done research for my dad's Odyssey payout, I know that some people have unfortunately had to go through litigation to get a fair payout but I hope it's not that common.

Does the precedent of the previous vehicle payout help your current case or are they ignoring it?

[Kloubek]

Man, what a bunch of dinks. Hopefully you can move upwards and cut through all the bullshit.

When I had done research for my dad's Odyssey payout, I know that some people have unfortunately had to go through litigation to get a fair payout but I hope it's not that common.

Does the precedent of the previous vehicle payout help your current case or are they ignoring it?

I bought it up, but they ignored it. To me, that is an obvious and completely relevant comparable. It is a year later (a year older) and has 20k more clicks. Simple. Apply whatever formula they have for age and mileage and bang - you have a fair offer based on this exact same prior scenario.

What I really need to do is get someone on the phone so they can't just ignore it.

Weird thing is (and Masked Bandit, correct me if I'm wrong) but since I was not at fault, I believe they will get compensated by the other guy's insurance anyway. Seems like a strange time to play hardball with me when it really doesn't make any significant difference to them.

[Masked Bandit]

Weird thing is (and Masked Bandit, correct me if I'm wrong) but since I was not at fault, I believe they will get compensated by the other guy's insurance anyway. Seems like a strange time to play hardball with me when it really doesn't make any significant difference to them.

Not exactly. Yes in the end the other insurance company will cover all costs but the payout amount your company gives you needs to be justified to the other insurance company when everything settles. Your insurance company will need to provide documentation to support the number they came up with. Has your broker had a chance to review with the adjuster?

[Mitsu3000gt]

That's pretty sketchy making it less safe in non-obvious ways for personal profit.

Isn't the only sketchy part the guy who is trying to sell it now? The insurance company had the option to inspect and refuse loweg's car based on his swap-outs, no?

[ExtraSlow]

Isn't the only sketchy part the guy who is trying to sell it now? The insurance company had the option to inspect and refuse loweg's car based on his swap-outs, no?

Both parts seem sketchy to me.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Both parts seem sketchy to me.

I guess, but if his description of his interaction with the insurance company was accurate, they essentially gave him free reign to take whatever he wanted as long as he left something in it's place. I doubt they told him it had to meet certain safety standards, pass an inspection, etc. so at that point I'd assume they were just going to sell it to a wrecker or something, not sell it to another person. In my mind anyway, it's FAR more sketchy that the insurance company sold that car to someone else (unless it was sold for parts or something), and then that person turned around and tried to sell it again. Buyer beware I guess.

[Kloubek]

Not exactly. Yes in the end the other insurance company will cover all costs but the payout amount your company gives you needs to be justified to the other insurance company when everything settles. Your insurance company will need to provide documentation to support the number they came up with. Has your broker had a chance to review with the adjuster?

I'm dealing directly with the adjuster. Might have been a mistake not getting the broker involved from the beginning. Seems like nobody is reviewing anything, really. They are just throwing around arbitrary numbers. I asked yesterday to speak to the adjustors manager but no response today.

[ExtraSlow]

If you have a broker, you can still get them involved.

[loweg]

I guess, but if his description of his interaction with the insurance company was accurate, they essentially gave him free reign to take whatever he wanted as long as he left something in it's place. I doubt they told him it had to meet certain safety standards, pass an inspection, etc. so at that point I'd assume they were just going to sell it to a wrecker or something, not sell it to another person. In my mind anyway, it's FAR more sketchy that the insurance company sold that car to someone else (unless it was sold for parts or something), and then that person turned around and tried to sell it again. Buyer beware I guess.

Precisely. They get sold at auction and have to be savage inspected to be back on the road. No harm no fouls.

Ps: extraslow, aren’t you the guy who I sold some racking to at 1/4 of the price of retail, then came and picked it up and told me I was lucky you didn’t pretend to “not have enough money?” Then bragged about that being your regular Kijiji scam? That seems shady to me bro? Glass houses much ?

[ExtraSlow]

Ps: extraslow, aren’t you the guy who I sold some racking to at 1/4 of the price of retail, then came and picked it up and told me I was lucky you didn’t pretend to “not have enough money?” Then bragged about that being your regular Kijiji scam? That seems shady to me bro? Glass houses much ? I think you remember our conversation differently than I do. I mentioned it's "a" common kijiji scam. I don't do it. That racking has been great though, it was a good value, and suits my needs well.

[loweg]

I'm dealing directly with the adjuster. Might have been a mistake not getting the broker involved from the beginning. Seems like nobody is reviewing anything, really. They are just throwing around arbitrary numbers. I asked yesterday to speak to the adjustors manager but no response today.

I’ve dealt a few times with these situations and have noticed the older your file is on their desk. The easier they tend to be to work with ? Right now they’re dealing with hail claims galore. If you can offord to give it some time .

Also, Just had some damage from hail to a jdm and they pulled an international report for value as it’s probably the only one in North America so they definitely can

[Kloubek]

If you have a broker, you can still get them involved.

Tried. They told me that they arent interested in helping me with value issues and that theyre only there to facilitate the claim to the insurer.

[dirtsniffer]

You can open a claim with the at fault insurance yourself. You aren't required to file with yours and have them claim after.

Fire your company.

Or bluff. Tell them you'll go direct to the at fault provider and that you'll be looking for coverage elsewhere

[googe]

Yeah, I don't know why you're talking to your insurance company. And fault does make a difference. Their insurance company has to make you whole again, period. If you fuck up someone's property, you're liable for making them whole.

I've been hit twice, and didn't even tell my insurance company either time, I just dealt directly with theirs. No point having another middle man to argue with.

Dealing with your own insurance company on a claim you're at fault for is a different story, because it matters what you are covered for and what your policy is. If you aren't at fault, there is no such thing as "coverage". The at fault party is personally liable, and his insurance company is acting as his agent.

Also, I got my mods covered on my own vehicle, which was entirely my fault, so this guy definitely has to cover your mods, including labor. You can take him to small claims for up to 50k and his insurance company will have to show up. They'll pay, stick to your guns.

[blownz]

I had a similar issue when my 5 series was written off. They called to say it was written off and offered me ~$34K for it and reminded me that the rental had to be returned in something like 48 hours since they made an offer to settle. This was my insurance company and I was not at fault.

I hung up, drove back to Enterprise and upgraded my rental to a CTS (originally all they had was a regular midsize, which is a compact in the real world). I then called them back and told them I got a more expensive rental and wouldn't return until I had a car in my driveway. They didn't like that, we went back and forth a few times, I told them I called a lawyer and they said I could get more money for the car plus money for 'injuries'. I also mentioned that it was disappointing that I pay for insurance and when I am in a not at fault accident my insurance company is trying to keep the other company from paying me a fair price. That finally got me moved up to someone more senior. At this point I had gone to the BMW dealer, found an almost identical car for ~$40K. I had them write up a bill of sale for the car as a CPO, add tint and 3M at dealer cost which put the price with GST around $46K. I emailed that quote to the more senior person at the insurance company and told him I found a car. They ended up having a cheque to me for the exact price a day later.

It sucks and is a pita to deal with insurance companies but stick with it and good luck.:thumbsup: