Inexpensive Electric Cars - All brands discussion.

[ExtraSlow]

Now I'm not currently in the market, but I am fascinated by this topic. If a person wanted a pure electric vehicle for running around town, taking the kids to school, getting groceries, commuting etc, what's the hot choice if you aren't rich? I see an electric Ford Focus is around $38k, and Chev Bolt, Kia Soul, Nissan Leaf and VW e-Golf for around that same price. If I'm reading the Tesla website right, the cheapest model is $64k, so let's leave them out of it.

Anyone more knowledgeable than me on this topic? Any of these cars have a clear range or sportiness or charge speed advantage?

EDIT: Chev Bolt, Not Volt.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

Bolt is terrible from a financials perspective. The lease rates are brutal. Buying any EV in Alberta sucks right now if you’re looking to make financial sense as we have zero government incentives.

[killramos]

I kindof like the e golf, it’s the only ev that isn’t entirely full of itself.

It’s just a golf, that is electric. And looks great.

35k isn’t even that bad these days, every econobox is crack money these days.

[rage2]

I kindof like the e golf, it’s the only ev that isn’t entirely full of itself.

It’s just a golf, that is electric. And looks great.

35k isn’t even that bad these days, every econobox is crack money these days.
A gas powered golf with the same trim line costs $11k less. Depending on driving distance, it takes 4-6 years to make up that difference in fuel costs to break even on TCO in Alberta. Without government incentives to close the costs gap of an electric drivetrain, it’s not really viable from a financial perspective today.

The only reason you should buy an EV here is to be full of yourself for pretending to save the environment, which is precisely why the e golf isn’t popular at all.

In BC, that gap drops to 2-3 years. In Ontario (before it was scrapped), you were ahead of the game from day 1. Keeping things simple with my math, not counting oil changes for gas cars or electric wiring costs in your home for EV.

[Aleks]

What about used? EVs have some very poor resale value so you could score a good deal if you can find one as supply in AB is limited.

[ExtraSlow]

I get that EV's in Alberta don't make financial sense, a much cheaper gas car is hard to argue against.

Still, EV's have other merits, including reduced maintence, quiet operation, and yes, image that some people covet.

The egolf seems interesting, although it's slow. I love the golf shape.

Kijiji Calgary has zero used EV's right now, so I assume they are rare as hell.

[Xtrema]

Just found out that Fiat 500e is RIV approved. Off lease ones are dirt cheap from US. They lose like 70% of value in 3 years. If the CAD worth more, not a bad city car assuming you can import one for around $13K CAD with 1-2 years of warranty left.

But it only has 84mile range since it's pretty much a Cali compliance car, so it's definitely a lot more limited in the use case.

Until Kona EV/eNiro twins come our way, I think eGolf is probably the best "cheap" EV of the bunch.

Charge speed wise, it doesn't matter. If you don't have a Tesla, you are stuck charging in the garage and home anyway. Just get a 240V dryer outlet out there for the most efficient charging. Even if you can charge off 110V, it's 20% less efficient than 240V

Speaking of charging at Condos, looks like the fight has started.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-electric-car-condo-charge-1.4862723

[ZenOps]

China will eventually get around to it. They will also soon be producing electric bikes so cheaply that people will just leave them on the streets unlocked.

Then it all changes.

[ExtraSlow]

84 miles is on the short end, but realistically, I could go from my house in north Calgary to the Okotoks "big rock" and back on a charge, and that's decent. Maybe you'd want a little more margin to handle less than ideal winter conditions, although when it's cold as hell, a lot of city dwellers don't go far anyway.

I still say that range isn't a big deal for a family that has a second vehicle, which is most of them around here.

[rage2]

What about used? EVs have some very poor resale value so you could score a good deal if you can find one as supply in AB is limited.
Yup, used is a way to go. Some EVs you have to be careful with, such as Leafs which had terrible battery degradation.


Still, EV's have other merits, including reduced maintence, quiet operation, and yes, image that some people covet.
Reduced maintenance is sort of a myth. Oil changes are cheap, and really that's the only thing you're not doing with an EV. The difference is negligible. If anything, the reduced brake wear has more of a maintenance cost savings than oil changes. All that is negated in the long term once it's time to replace the battery (assuming you're owning the car for long term). Tesla is an outlier as well as their yearly maintenance costs are currently higher than any car I've owned including AMGs.

[Xtrema]

Reduced maintenance is sort of a myth. Oil changes are cheap, and really that's the only thing you're not doing with an EV. The difference is negligible. If anything, the reduced brake wear has more of a maintenance cost savings than oil changes. All that is negated in the long term once it's time to replace the battery (assuming you're owning the car for long term). Tesla is an outlier as well as their yearly maintenance costs are currently higher than any car I've owned including AMGs.

Also, Nissan also raised the price for battery replacement for 1st Gen Leaf owners from $5500USD to $8500USD. That's a lot of oil changes and brake pad replacements on a equivalent Nissan Versa and may even cover a failed CVT replacement cost in there.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=25882

So unless a safe aftermarket support comes in, the whole batteries get cheaper over time argument is bunk. Although in Nissan's case, it's probably planned obsolescence.

And given limited source of mining for battery material to be had, I think battery prices will hold at current rate for a long time to come if not running into shortages if EV growth continues.

[rage2]

Battery costs are going down, that's a fact. Nissan charging more is like you said probably planned obsolescence.

[Tik-Tok]

The only reason you should buy an EV here is to be full of yourself for pretending to save the environment, which is precisely why the e golf isn’t popular at all.


I just like to be part of the soluuuutionnn.

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[Aleks]

I would consider one for my commute to work if we had that $14,000 inventive like they did in Ontario. I have free charging at work so that would have made getting an e-Golf in the mid 20k range very attractive.

[nzwasp]

How long does one of these cars take to charge from 0% to full battery?

[rage2]

How long does one of these cars take to charge from 0% to full battery?

Home Chargers:

https://www.clippercreek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Time-to-Charge-Chart-20180615_FINAL_LOW-RES.jpg

Basically with a Level 2 220V charger, you're good to go for nightly top ups.

[nzwasp]

So the Ikea chargers are actually near the top of the range. I never see anyone using them though.

[rage2]

So the Ikea chargers are actually near the top of the range. I never see anyone using them though.
There's not a lot of reasons to go out and charge. EVs really change the workflow of "refueling". Gas cars, you drive till it's empty, go out, and refuel. EV's, you charge every night when you get home, so it's always full. You would only use outside chargers when doing long trips.

90% of driving really is covered by home charging, this is why we won't and don't need to match gas stations when it comes to chargers, except on highways.

[killramos]

Using the cars idle time to charge is definitely key.

The 4-5 supercharger model per city and periodically along major routes is probably totally sufficient if 95% of charging is done at home.

EV charging stations is just virtue posturing by malls, buildings etc.

My last building had “EV Charging” you had to go park in the loading dock next to the trash cans though :rofl:, 2 whole charging points too lol. There was always some smug bastard with a Tesla there.

[C4S]

Home Chargers:


Basically with a Level 2 220V charger, you're good to go for nightly top ups.

So .. mean 26.5 hour to charge the Tesla P100? and $395 plug in means?

:confused:

I still think if I want to save money on gas .. go Hybrid .. (have two self charging Hybrid now .. but not really because of saving gas.. lovely! :angel: )

[rage2]

So .. mean 26.5 hour to charge the Tesla P100? and $395 plug in means?
Hard wire is a new 240v line to your garage that powers your charger. Plug in is a charger that plugs into a 240V socket. Since almost nobody has 240v to their garage, you would go hard wire because it would be stupid to run a line and plug into garage to use your charger unless you have a need for 240v service in the garage.

Since you’re running a new line, it would make no sense to go with the lowest 16a that charges in 26.5h. You would go as high as you can. 48a on a 60a breaker is what most Tesla owners go with for their charging setup, which fully charges a P100 in 8.5 hrs. No other EV on this list can charge at that rate, but it’s always better to future proof.

[ExtraSlow]

Any vehicle in my family would have at least 14 hours 7 nights a week to charge, so we could probably get by with the lowest charge level particularly with one of the smaller EV's. That's a really cool chart, and shows the value of the higher amperage charging options of you have the larger battery packs and plan to use the entire range every day.

[rage2]

Any vehicle in my family would have at least 14 hours 7 nights a week to charge, so we could probably get by with the lowest charge level particularly with one of the smaller EV's. That's a really cool chart, and shows the value of the higher amperage charging options of you have the larger battery packs and plan to use the entire range every day.
Lower amperage charge also minimizes battery degradation. In Tesla’s you can set max charge rate. Not sure about other EVs.

[ExtraSlow]

Lower amperage charge also minimizes battery degradation. In Tesla’s you can set max charge rate. Not sure about other EVs.

Would be trivial to build a button into the charger so you could switch between fastest charge and some preset lower amperage.

[nzwasp]

Do all these electric vehicles use the same plug to charge or does every brand have their own proprietary charging attachment?

[rage2]

Do all these electric vehicles use the same plug to charge or does every brand have their own proprietary charging attachment?
SAE combo is winning out as standard. From that list it’s an additional mix of chademo (Japanese brands), and Tesla proprietary. Tesla’s can do SAE combo with an adapter IIRC.

[thinmyster]

What do you guys think of he new A3 sportback e-tron? I think it has a 28mile Ev range

[ExtraSlow]

What do you guys think of he new A3 sportback e-tron? I think it has a 28mile Ev range

It's a hybrid, so not quite the same, but yeah it's electric only range is short, like most hybrids. Also a bit more expensive than others in this discussion, as it's over 40k to start and close to 50k with a few options.

[ercchry]

I always though converting a little old, light and under powered classic would be a fun summer city runabout

fXsQGWWz3Is

[16hypen3sp]

Been looking at a Chev Bolt EUV. We'd probably order one if we went ahead with it. It would be for my wife as a daily. Charge at home and at work as I think her new shop has outdoor plugs.

Not exactly sure how winter would go... but I am somewhat interested.

Any other words of wisdom?

[ExtraSlow]

I'd cross shop with the Kona EV. Are either in stock anywhere or have reasonable delivery times?
For city use I think winter will be no issue. Whichever has the cleverest pre-heat system will be most comfortable in real cold weather, but city range should be no problem even in the coldest weather.

[jutes]

I would never consider a full EV if you are doing any sort of distance driving, too risky in Canada. A hybrid is still my #1 pick.

[16hypen3sp]

I'd cross shop with the Kona EV. Are either in stock anywhere or have reasonable delivery times?
For city use I think winter will be no issue. Whichever has the cleverest pre-heat system will be most comfortable in real cold weather, but city range should be no problem even in the coldest weather.

Yah there's a quite a bit of research to do in order to grasp what exactly one is getting themselves into with a full EV.

My biggest concern is charging during -45C. But I appears most of these EV's have a battery warming system that tries to get the battery warm or at least help it combat the cold temps in some form. Wasn't sure what kinds of battery/range degradation the battery would see from charging in super cold weather like that.


I would never consider a full EV if you are doing any sort of distance driving, too risky in Canada. A hybrid is still my #1 pick.

I somewhat agree. You'd have to do much more route planning and hope infrastructure is available when you get there.

But in this case, it would be her daily in and around the Red Deer area. Shouldn't be an issue. Long trips, we'd be using ICE.

[Tik-Tok]

.

My biggest concern is charging during -45C. But I appears most of these EV's have a battery warming system that tries to get the battery warm or at least help it combat the cold temps in some form. Wasn't sure what kinds of battery/range degradation the battery would see from charging in super cold weather like that.



From everything I've researched. Assume you get half the range in our coldest months.

[16hypen3sp]

From everything I've researched. Assume you get half the range in our coldest months.

Yah. I'm thinking the same.

[killramos]

Yah there's a quite a bit of research to do in order to grasp what exactly one is getting themselves into with a full EV.

My biggest concern is charging during -45C. But I appears most of these EV's have a battery warming system that tries to get the battery warm or at least help it combat the cold temps in some form. Wasn't sure what kinds of battery/range degradation the battery would see from charging in super cold weather like that.



I somewhat agree. You'd have to do much more route planning and hope infrastructure is available when you get there.

But in this case, it would be her daily in and around the Red Deer area. Shouldn't be an issue. Long trips, we'd be using ICE.

Do you have somewhere indoors (preferably heated) to consistently park your EV? I only ask because you seem concerned about -45C temps.

You really shouldn’t buy an EV if you consistently store it outside.

[16hypen3sp]

Do you have somewhere indoors (preferably heated) to consistently park your EV? I only ask because you seem concerned about -45C temps.

You really shouldn’t buy an EV if you consistently store it outside.

I can deal with it at home, but when she's at work or out and about, that's a different story.

[heavyD]

Lower amperage charge also minimizes battery degradation. In Tesla’s you can set max charge rate. Not sure about other EVs.

I have mine set to charge to 75% max for my home to work commute to keep the battery consistently in the 50-75% range. I may have to change things up in the winter months.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I can deal with it at home, but when she's at work or out and about, that's a different story.

Which ones have you driven?

[Pauly Boy]

EV delivery times are insane right now between covid production issues, AB allocation being terrible & demand with gas prices.

Even worse for things like the Rav4 Prime - My salesbro bud says they will never fill their orders for it before they discontinue this current generation of Rav, lol

[The_Rural_Juror]

Hybrids are awful.

https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/64301/study-hybrids-involved-in-more-fires-than-evs-and-gas-powered-vehicles/#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20study%20by,cars%20and%203%2C475%20for%20hybrids.

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[rage2]

Hybrids are awful.

https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/64301/study-hybrids-involved-in-more-fires-than-evs-and-gas-powered-vehicles/#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20study%20by,cars%20and%203%2C475%20for%20hybrids.

107975
Stop posting fake news.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/

Source of data was figured out and kinda hilarious comedy of errors.

1487719214102323200

Drives me insane that this fake news is pretty much waved as true fact and ignores how ridiculous the numbers are.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Stop posting fake news.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/

Drives me insane that this fake news is pretty much waved as true fact and ignores how ridiculous the numbers are.

I wasn't aware that it was fake news. My humblest apologies, great sir.
They cite recalls.gov as their source.:drama:


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[rage2]

I updated my post with the guy that reverse engineered the stats. But hilarious that they updated their source that puts fire risk based on recalls. That's even more ridiculous haha.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I updated my post with the guy that reverse engineered the stats. But hilarious that they updated their source that puts fire risk based on recalls. That's even more ridiculous haha.

Can we hug it out?

[rage2]

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[The_Rural_Juror]

107986

That means a lot to me, especially how much y'all hate Teslas.
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[flipstah]

Haven't seen an Ioniq 5 in person yet, but website pictures look great

[Tik-Tok]

Haven't seen an Ioniq 5 in person yet, but website pictures look great

They don't look quite as good in person, but still decent.

So weird they don't have a rear window wiper though.

[spike98]

Haven't seen an Ioniq 5 in person yet, but website pictures look great

I saw/sat in one in a showroom and was impressed. However, seeing it in the sun/on the road, its pretty ugly. That said, the price/performance is spot on and the 800v dc charging is good for 80% in like 25 min.

[DonJuan]

I saw/sat in one in a showroom and was impressed. However, seeing it in the sun/on the road, its pretty ugly. That said, the price/performance is spot on and the 800v dc charging is good for 80% in like 25 min.

This is also my impression, though I haven't sat in it yet. On the road it's not good looking and kind of blends in.

[bjstare]

Haven't seen an Ioniq 5 in person yet, but website pictures look great

Looks way better in pictures. My neighbours are friends with someone who visits often and drives one of those.

IRL, it's too big and the design doesn't scale well. I expected it to be the size of a golf based on pics, but it's closer to the size of a normal small SUV.

[flipstah]

So I started looking up EVs seriously when I rented a Model 3 and the panel gaps were horrendous. The window also didn't fully seal so we got wind noise on the highway just on one side. From what I've read in Beyond, all Tesla's are hit-and-miss in quality.

Is there a 'jerry can' version of a charger and not a Tesla plug that goes through 110V? Is there a 220V portable charger?

[Darell_n]

Is there a 'jerry can' version of a charger and not a Tesla plug that goes through 110V? Is there a 220V portable charger?

They make these little fast charger jerry cans.

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[Kloubek]

From what I've read in Beyond, all Tesla's are hit-and-miss in quality.

From what *I've* heard, it's almost always a miss. I'm not sure how many workers build a car in their factory, but it seems virtually all of them have fitment issues and creaky plastic interior panel syndrome.

For a vehicle that positions itself as a semi-luxury brand, they have a ways to go before their product lives up to the ethos.

[flipstah]

From what *I've* heard, it's almost always a miss. I'm not sure how many workers build a car in their factory, but it seems virtually all of them have fitment issues and creaky plastic interior panel syndrome.

For a vehicle that positions itself as a semi-luxury brand, they have a ways to go before their product lives up to the ethos.

As I started looking more seriously for comparative models, Audi has a comprehensive lineup that makes Tesla look like a Daewoo. The Audi Q4 is pretty nice and priced very well compared to Model Y. $60k start

EDIT: Interesting chart. I guess rebates are only for leases?

https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-technologies/zero-emission-vehicles/light-duty-zero-emission-vehicles/eligible-vehicles

[spike98]

As I started looking more seriously for comparative models, Audi has a comprehensive lineup that makes Tesla look like a Daewoo. The Audi Q4 is pretty nice and priced very well compared to Model Y. $60k start

EDIT: Interesting chart. I guess rebates are only for leases?

https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-technologies/zero-emission-vehicles/light-duty-zero-emission-vehicles/eligible-vehicles

The rebates also account for purchases as well

Not sure what Audi's deal is but when we were looking, anything Audi related was not even able to be factory ordered (at the time anways). There was absolutely no way to get anything electric in thier lineup (unless we are talking a $150k etron).

[Xtrema]

As I started looking more seriously for comparative models, Audi has a comprehensive lineup that makes Tesla look like a Daewoo. The Audi Q4 is pretty nice and priced very well compared to Model Y. $60k start

EDIT: Interesting chart. I guess rebates are only for leases?

https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-technologies/zero-emission-vehicles/light-duty-zero-emission-vehicles/eligible-vehicles

Q4 is basically a rebadged ID4. I don't think think the rebate applies to the Sportback model tho.

Rebate for purchase or lease but pro-rate based on duration of the lease.

[rage2]

For a vehicle that positions itself as a semi-luxury brand, they have a ways to go before their product lives up to the ethos. benyl said it best, it’s not a luxury car. It’s a fast econobox, like STI or EVO. I think the only people that position Tesla as a luxury car are the ones buying such an expensive car for the first time, coming from 10+ year old even bigger shit boxes. The ones that get wet over the brake hold feature haha.

[killramos]

benyl said it best, it’s not a luxury car. It’s a fast econobox, like STI or EVO. I think the only people that position Tesla as a luxury car are the ones buying such an expensive car for the first time, coming from 10+ year old even bigger shit boxes. The ones that get wet over the brake hold feature haha.

Or reviewers who want to quote that they sold more than *insert luxo brand here* because their numbers don’t look so hot when they hit in their weight class of domestic econoboxes.

“Tesla outsold Bugatti last quarter: Why that’s a big deal”

[heavyD]

benyl said it best, it’s not a luxury car. It’s a fast econobox, like STI or EVO. I think the only people that position Tesla as a luxury car are the ones buying such an expensive car for the first time, coming from 10+ year old even bigger shit boxes. The ones that get wet over the brake hold feature haha.

It never gets old seeing Tesla fans gush about the amazing tech. A lot of them actually believe Teslas are the pinnacle of high tech in automobiles. I just assume these people have come from entry level equipped economy cars.

[zieg]

I just wish other manufacturers would stop trying to make their EVs seem super high tech/futuristic. IMO a giant touchscreen taking the place of physical buttons for things like radio and hvac is just asinine. Between that and the dumbass door handles there's no way I could own a mach e.

The blazer looks promising but I'm a bit iffy on its touchscreen situation. Also interested in the solterra but I'd have to drive it first to see if the weird cluster placement gets on my nerves.

One of the reasons I hate touchscreens is thanks to the shared company car I sometimes had to use at a previous employer. It had some capacitive touch controls that sadly had stopped working, and the only other way to turn the heat on was the touchscreen. Unfortunately the touchscreen wouldn't respond when it was really, really cold, so we were all driving the fucking thing around without heat in the middle of winter.

[killramos]

I wish the spaceship trend would leave the auto sector altogether.

Some of the design language today is bizarre and cringe.

I tried to buy a new Lexus of all things earlier in the year and they locked all the features behind a touch screen and locked my wife in the car 3 times with a electronic door handles. Heated seats are basically the only thing my wife cares about in a car and they screwed it up buy it taking even the salesman several minutes to turn them on.

The answer to it all so pretty simple. Computerized crap is way cheaper to make than something with physical buttons.

[flipstah]

Q4 is basically a rebadged ID4. I don't think think the rebate applies to the Sportback model tho.

Rebate for purchase or lease but pro-rate based on duration of the lease.

Apparently the ID4 has shitty infotainment so hoping Audi MMI took care of this.

Also looks marginally better than the ID4

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/A9QPO/s1/2022-audi-q4-e-tron-45-quattro-european-spec-1.jpg

https://chargedevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Large-14209-2021ID.4AWDProSwithGradientPackage.jpg

[bjstare]

Isn't the ID4 regarded as having a shitty... everything? I recall seeing a review or two that say it's awful.

[r3ccOs]

I wish the spaceship trend would leave the auto sector altogether.

Some of the design language today is bizarre and cringe.

I tried to buy a new Lexus of all things earlier in the year and they locked all the features behind a touch screen and locked my wife in the car 3 times with a electronic door handles. Heated seats are basically the only thing my wife cares about in a car and they screwed it up buy it taking even the salesman several minutes to turn them on.

The answer to it all so pretty simple. Computerized crap is way cheaper to make than something with physical buttons.

I actually do agree..

Other than the entertainment unit and HVAC, WTF is the difference in an Electric car vs. a Golf Cart or Powerwheels?

[rage2]

IMO a giant touchscreen taking the place of physical buttons for things like radio and hvac is just asinine.
Agreed. People will call us out for boomer mentality, but using touchscreen, even CarPlay, is a distraction. There’s a reason why distracted driving laws exist. I’m actually surprised that touchscreens for basic functionality is an approved thing.

Touchscreens are great when you’re a passenger, terrible when you’re driving.

[r3ccOs]

Agreed. People will call us out for boomer mentality, but using touchscreen, even CarPlay, is a distraction. There’s a reason why distracted driving laws exist. I’m actually surprised that touchscreens for basic functionality is an approved thing.

Touchscreens are great when you’re a passenger, terrible when you’re driving.

I've not been more scared of riding a motorcycle within city limits since the release of the iphone.

its one thing to t9, another to have to look and type to text

[heavyD]

Agreed. People will call us out for boomer mentality, but using touchscreen, even CarPlay, is a distraction. There’s a reason why distracted driving laws exist. I’m actually surprised that touchscreens for basic functionality is an approved thing.

Touchscreens are great when you’re a passenger, terrible when you’re driving.

Owning a Tesla basically forces you to become familiar with the voice commands as it's the only efficient way to use controls (not available on the steering wheel) while driving. To Tesla's credit they are generally pretty good compared to legacy automakers that still have issues getting voice recognition right.

[flipstah]

Owning a Tesla basically forces you to become familiar with the voice commands as it's the only efficient way to use controls (not available on the steering wheel) while driving. To Tesla's credit they are generally pretty good compared to legacy automakers that still have issues getting voice recognition right.

Yes. I had to go through menus to change airflow/mirrors/steering wheel... Things that could've been easily done at a stop light is now through voice commands.

[Kloubek]

benyl said it best, it’s not a luxury car. It’s a fast econobox

I agree that's what most Tesla's actually ARE, yet, that's not how most view them - including enthusiast articles and websites. I also agree that the moniker is largely due to the higher price of Teslas, which put them in a league with luxury vehicles based on price alone if nothing else. Even if one takes out the idea that it's a luxury car, I've seen far better build quality on true econoboxes so it's quite unacceptable regardless of one's opinion on what constitutes a "luxury" vehicle. If I'm paying 50-100g on a vehicle, I expect a build quality that exceeds what a drunk, blind, and paraplegic Mexican could throw together in a weekend.

[zieg]

a build quality that exceeds what a drunk, blind, and paraplegic Mexican could throw together in a weekend.

Ah, I see you have also owned a 1991 Ford Explorer

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Ah, I see you have also owned a 1991 Ford Explorer

Yeah, and he misses the build quality.

[DonJuan]

If Kloubek is complaining about build quality on Tesla's it's REALLY bad.

I saw a youtube video explaining that Tesla's like to snap welded motor mounts when launching often. Which means don't buy former rental cars :D

[heavyD]

The build quality is the worst I have ever seen with any car I have ever owned. The paint on mine isn't terrible but there are more dust specs under it than on any car I have owned. The panel gaps on mine aren't nearly as bad as some of the horror story photos you see on the web but it's still worse than any other car I have owned as I have a gap on my rear bumper cover that's not correctable without changing the bumper cover (poor molding process) and one of the front fenders was not aligned (I fixed myself by removing the wheel well plastic and pulling out the fender). I was actually pleasantly surprised that my interior was pretty solid as the headliner didn't have any gaps at the pillars and the trim generally lines up but there's a tin can feel inside when you are driving with all the random creaks and rattles. Tesla has improved but the bar is still low as they went from garage kit car level fit and finish on their early cars to what it is now which still wouldn't be good enough for Chrysler or Lotus.

[benyl]

I have a sample size of 2. Build quality in 2019 wasn't terrible. I think the issues are overblown because of the price of the cars. People expect more. People who buy a $30K car buy it as an appliance. I doubt they check panel gap sizes.


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8QlzjwGTZRc

[heavyD]

I have a sample size of 2. Build quality in 2019 wasn't terrible. I think the issues are overblown because of the price of the cars. People expect more. People who buy a $30K car buy it as an appliance. I doubt they check panel gap sizes.


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8QlzjwGTZRc

I don't agree that they are overblown. Now all brands let the odd car go out with some issues but with Tesla it's the opposite in that the odd car may come out of the assembly line nearly perfect and the majority all come off the assembly line flawed to a degree. I haven't seen cheap economy cars with the level if imperfections of Teslas. I actually think most people in general don't check panel gaps on any cars that aren't very expensive or enthusiast. The reality is that the majority of Tesla owners don't seem to care about panel gaps which is why Tesla has got away with poor build quality for so long. If you just walk around my Model 3P you would assume that it looks pretty well built. When you start looking closer and comparing to other cars is where the faults pop up. In my garage parked next to my wife's new GV70 the Genesis panels, paint, and overall quality is night and day better.

I installed some mud flaps and the front and rear wheel well liners on the Tesla doesn't even really fit properly as there are lots of gaps and stretching to get clips to fit. The fitment of all panels in general is very sloppy as I have taken apart a lot of cars over the decades and the panel fitment on these cars inside and out is worse than old Chrysler K car era. A lot of people just don't care about stuff like this and that's fine but if you do care, you will have to be okay with a level of quality below what you are used to.

[msommers]

Whether people notice or not, for a significant proportion of Tesla owners it's a brand statement and/or "In Elon We Trust" so any criticisms would be futile or justified.

[flipstah]

Just saw a KIA EV6 in person and it's a looker in matte gray. I dig it.

Not as sharp as the Hyundai one.

[rage2]

Just saw a KIA EV6 in person and it's a looker in matte gray. I dig it.

Not as sharp as the Hyundai one.
I really like the EV6. I’m not liking the range on the GT version tho. 200 miles, won’t even make it to Edmonton driven at a decent pace.

[flipstah]

I really like the EV6. I’m not liking the range on the GT version tho. 200 miles, won’t even make it to Edmonton driven at a decent pace.

Says on the website est. range is 441 km for the AWD LR

It's enough to get you there. Barely.

[rage2]

Says on the website est. range is 441 km for the AWD LR

It's enough to get you there. Barely.
Talking about the new 600hp GT. It loses a ton of range compared to the slower cars. That's what I have a deposit on.

[flipstah]

Talking about the new 600hp GT. It loses a ton of range compared to the slower cars. That's what I have a deposit on.

Ohhhh damnnn. Please give us a review of that. I was eyeing that too when I watched a review that a 585hp version is debuting.

[rage2]

Ohhhh damnnn. Please give us a review of that. I was eyeing that too when I watched a review that a 585hp version is debuting.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40930840/2023-kia-ev6-gt-confirmed-specs/

[Xtrema]

Isn't the ID4 regarded as having a shitty... everything? I recall seeing a review or two that say it's awful.

At $50k (have not checked, they may have raised MSRP since new higher EV rebate limit was announced), it's the cheaper AWD BEV out there.

But given how ID3 was stuck at factory early on due to software issues, still a lot of growing pains on ID.4.

I'm sure by the time it's widely available, it'll be on its 2nd gen.

[hurrdurr]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40930840/2023-kia-ev6-gt-confirmed-specs/

Oh man that fucking sucks. I was really rooting for the EV6 GT but that range is no good. IMO you need at least 500kms (rated) for practicality especially in our climate.

I've never even been able to get 400KMs out of my Model 3 Performance from 100%. Maybe I have a lead foot or use too much AC or am too fat but I would have range anxiety all the time with only 330KM (rated) range.

[flipstah]

We need that electric jerry can asap

[bjstare]

Or just have more than one car. Use your EV for all driving that's comfortably in range, use your ICE/hybrid/PHEV for longer distances.

[hurrdurr]

Or just have more than one car. Use your EV for all driving that's comfortably in range, use your ICE/hybrid/PHEV for longer distances.

Can't say I agree with singling out an entire market of car buyers as an excuse for lower range?

The GT6 checks every box for me except for range: styling, speed, comfort, technology, cargo space.

[killramos]

The idea that you will get a cheap EV in 2022 and compromise on nothing seems hilariously naive to me.

Electric cars are a lifestyle choice / flex for the rich.

[ExtraSlow]

Most families have two cars, having one as an EV is easy. Having your ONLY car as an EV usually means some kind of compromise right now.

[pheoxs]

I'm surprised the EV6 GT has so much less range. It has the same battery pack as the 310 mile LR version. Where is it losing nearly a third of it's range? Surely can't just be the efficiency loss of larger motors?

[benyl]

I dunno. I just drove to Kelowna. No issues with range. With kids and a wife, you are always stopping for pee breaks.

[killramos]

108365

ftfy

[The_Rural_Juror]

I drove to Mount Pleasant to get coffee and barely made it back on a single charge.

[DonJuan]

I'm surprised the EV6 GT has so much less range. It has the same battery pack as the 310 mile LR version. Where is it losing nearly a third of it's range? Surely can't just be the efficiency loss of larger motors?

Conspiracy Theory:
EV6 GT will have a programmed restrictor on range so that 33% batt actual = 0% batt display. The long range version will be $20k DLC.

I'm still in on this if its under <$60k. This might score me more brownie points than that GR Corolla we might only see one of, ever. A small 4 door Korean electric car daily driver, such a sensible choice.

Huehuehue

[rage2]

Most families have two cars, having one as an EV is easy. Having your ONLY car as an EV usually means some kind of compromise right now.
I think for us, this upcoming year will be the first year where both cars need lots of range. One kid in baseball, one kid in hockey. Good times.

If it wasn't for kids and family, I would've gotten an EV long ago. I don't think I did more than 1 road trip a year 10 years ago. Flew everywhere. Everything has more than enough range for city driving even in the worst cold weather.


Conspiracy Theory:
EV6 GT will have a programmed restrictor on range so that 33% batt actual = 0% batt display. The long range version will be $20k DLC.

I'm still in on this if its under <$60k. This might score me more brownie points than that GR Corolla we might only see one of, ever. A small 4 door Korean electric car daily driver, such a sensible choice.
EV6 GT is going to be a $75k+ car haha. Basically a Model 3 Performance competitor. The GT Line is already 58-62k before fees or taxes.

It's too bad about the range being THAT bad. The interior on the EV6 GT is pretty awesome, same seats as the Veloster N. Met some random guy with an N the other day and tried the seats out. So good.

108373

[DonJuan]

...
EV6 GT is going to be a $75k+ car haha. Basically a Model 3 Performance competitor. The GT Line is already 58-62k before fees or taxes.


Damn, I was confused by the GT Line price and GT.

At $75k+ I guess I'm back to threating the Volvo dealership for a black on black V90 PHEV.

[ExtraSlow]

Having two kids in travel sports is the worst lifestyle choice in this thread.