Best Multi Vitamin [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

Mitsu3000gt

10-24-2018, 10:31 AM

I did a search but the most recent thread I could find was 6 years old.

I know some of you are way more into nutrition than I am, so I was hoping for some advice on the best multi vitamin. I don't have a flawlessly balanced diet every day, so I am sure I am not getting my recommended vitamin levels all the time. I'm also just interested to see if taking a premium multivitamin provides any noticeable effect on health or quality of life.

I tried to look at this objectively and I found a website called "labdoor". Assuming they're legit, they recommend Garden of Life Vitamin Code for Men as their highest rated multi vitamin and when an ingredient was inaccurate, it offered more not less:

https://labdoor.com/review/garden-of-life-vitamin-code-for-men

It seems interesting in that everything is naturally derived, does not need to be taken with food and it has no unsafe ingredients.

In the past I just bought the Kirkland ones but comparing the ingredients they barely have anything in them compared to others, and they get a poor rating on labdoor (again assuming it is reputable).

Is that a good place to start? Anything better out there? I'm not worried about the price (within reason) if they are objectively better than competing products.

Also, why would I need to take 4/day if each pill has 100% or more of my daily recommended value in almost every category?

TIA

Or should I just get something like this and be done with it?

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B019C1GDAI/ref=pd_luc_rh_sspa_dk_huc_pt_expsub_3?psc=1

max_boost

10-24-2018, 10:37 AM

Usana 89coupe approved

vengie

10-24-2018, 10:39 AM

89coupe

10-24-2018, 10:56 AM

As long as you are healthy and eating a good balanced diet, I don’t see the need for a multivitamin.

BavarianBeast

10-24-2018, 10:56 AM

I just started taking "Progressive Active Men" Multi as recommended by a friend who is a naturopath.

I have no idea how they rank to others, but I trust her.

Another brand I was reading up on is the "NOW Adam" multi. Its pretty highly rated on Bodybuilding.com

Taking one good look at the progressive active men ingredients and it’s clear it’s a shitty multi. Do some research on mineral and vitamin absorption and you’ll see why.

Best option imeo is vita jym and take your zinc mag and potassium at night separately.

msommers

10-24-2018, 11:12 AM

Not a multivitamin but a more targetted approach to things I know I lack (in my case specifically, potassium):

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000F4WOAU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Some interesting research as of late regarding omega 3:omega 6 ratios that suggest people don't get nearly enough of the 3 and the imbalance might be leading to some diseases.

I will also start taking units of D3 as the seasons are changing, less light etc.

J-hop

10-24-2018, 12:34 PM

Taking one good look at the progressive active men ingredients and it’s clear it’s a shitty multi. Do some research on mineral and vitamin absorption and you’ll see why.

Best option imeo is vita jym and take your zinc mag and potassium at night separately.

Everyone has their favourite and slam others. but half the time it just ends up being expensive urine.

To play the other side one could also say vita jym is a shitty multi for the exact same reasons you mention (absorption). They claim 500-1000mcg b12. Studies show b12 absorption exponentially decays to the point they can’t even effectively measure the absorption beyond 500mcg (from what I’ve read even out of the 500mcg you only absorb between 5-10mcg).

I’ve lost faith in multis, I think a lot of it is pure placebo.

revelations

10-24-2018, 12:49 PM

As long as you are healthy and eating a good balanced diet, I don’t see the need for a multivitamin.

Even if you do, our North American food source is losing its nutritional values. Has been going on for decades as our soils are being drugged and depleted of nutrients. Outsourced food is another issue.

Mitsu3000gt

10-24-2018, 01:11 PM

As long as you are healthy and eating a good balanced diet, I don’t see the need for a multivitamin.

I don't have a flawlessly balanced diet every day, so I am sure I am not getting my recommended vitamin levels all the time.

-----------------------------

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Does anyone actually use these Garden of Life Vitamin Codes? I will look into the others suggested too.

The "NOW Adam" rate pretty well and are a bit cheaper per unit than the Vitamin Code but I don't know which is the better Vitamin:

https://labdoor.com/review/now-foods-adam-mens-multivitamin

Buster

10-24-2018, 01:38 PM

ya, multi vitamins are snake oil

vengie

10-24-2018, 01:48 PM

ya, multi vitamins are snake oil

Yeah but snakes are delicious.

HiTempguy1

10-24-2018, 01:57 PM

Even if you do, our North American food source is losing its nutritional values. Has been going on for decades as our soils are being drugged and depleted of nutrients. Outsourced food is another issue.

:rofl:

Zenops 2.0?

vengie

10-24-2018, 01:59 PM

:rofl:

Zenops 2.0?

... He's not entirely wrong.

nismodrifter

10-24-2018, 02:03 PM

No strong evidence for multivitamins. Don't waste your $$.

msommers

10-24-2018, 02:38 PM

^^An actual Doctor, fyi

BavarianBeast

10-24-2018, 02:44 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL8aaq-kXHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbGKt7FH6ds

While I don't think taking a multi is a game changer, I think it's still relatively important for people trying to reach certain fitness goals or those who are deficient in certain areas.

I trust this dude when it comes to supplement science..

Jim Stoppani received his doctorate in exercise physiology with a minor in biochemistry from the University of Connecticut. Following graduation, he served as a postdoctoral research fellow in the prestigious John B. Pierce Laboratory and Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology at Yale University School of Medicine, where he investigated the effects of exercise and diet on gene regulation in muscle tissue.
He was awarded the Gatorade Beginning Investigator in Exercise Science Award in 2002 by the American Physiological Society for his groundbreaking research. Currently, Jim runs his own fitness website JimStoppani.com.
He has written thousands of articles on exercise, nutrition, and health, and is author of "Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength" (Human Kinetics, 2006), co-author of the New York Times Bestseller, "LL Cool J's Platinum 360 Diet and Lifestyle" (Rodale, 2010), co-author of the book "Stronger Arms & Upper Body" (Human Kinetics, 2008), and co-author of the chapter "Nutritional Needs of Strength/Power Athletes" in the textbook "Essentials of Sports Nutrition and Supplements" (Humana Press, 2008). Dr. Stoppani is the creator of the Platinum 360 Diet, and creator of the diet program found in the book "Mario Lopez's Knockout Fitness" (Rodale, 2008).
Dr. Stoppani has been the personal nutrition and health consultant for celebrity clients, such as LL Cool J, Dr. Dre, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, and Mario Lopez. He has appeared on the NBC television show "Extra" as an Extra LifeChanger and as a science expert on the Spike television shows "Jesse James is a Dead Man" and "MANswers."

Mitsu3000gt

10-24-2018, 02:46 PM

No strong evidence for multivitamins. Don't waste your $$.

Even if you are deficient in certain areas? I know for a fact I am not getting a flawless distribution nutrition every day but I am also not a doctor haha. That is really my motivation for wanting a good one.

I listened to a "Science VS" podcast on multivitamins as well and they basically said the same as you, but interestingly enough the doctors they interviewed took them themselves as it couldn't hurt.

Any medical articles you could point to would be appreciated - I like reading that kind of stuff.

J-hop

10-24-2018, 02:57 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL8aaq-kXHA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbGKt7FH6ds

While I don't think taking a multi is a game changer, I think it's still relatively important for people trying to reach certain fitness goals.

I trust this dude when it comes to supplement science..

Jim Stoppani received his doctorate in exercise physiology with a minor in biochemistry from the University of Connecticut. Following graduation, he served as a postdoctoral research fellow in the prestigious John B. Pierce Laboratory and Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology at Yale University School of Medicine, where he investigated the effects of exercise and diet on gene regulation in muscle tissue.
He was awarded the Gatorade Beginning Investigator in Exercise Science Award in 2002 by the American Physiological Society for his groundbreaking research. Currently, Jim runs his own fitness website JimStoppani.com.
He has written thousands of articles on exercise, nutrition, and health, and is author of "Encyclopedia of Muscle & Strength" (Human Kinetics, 2006), co-author of the New York Times Bestseller, "LL Cool J's Platinum 360 Diet and Lifestyle" (Rodale, 2010), co-author of the book "Stronger Arms & Upper Body" (Human Kinetics, 2008), and co-author of the chapter "Nutritional Needs of Strength/Power Athletes" in the textbook "Essentials of Sports Nutrition and Supplements" (Humana Press, 2008). Dr. Stoppani is the creator of the Platinum 360 Diet, and creator of the diet program found in the book "Mario Lopez's Knockout Fitness" (Rodale, 2008).
Dr. Stoppani has been the personal nutrition and health consultant for celebrity clients, such as LL Cool J, Dr. Dre, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, and Mario Lopez. He has appeared on the NBC television show "Extra" as an Extra LifeChanger and as a science expert on the Spike television shows "Jesse James is a Dead Man" and "MANswers."

Rule one though in anything. The second someone has a monetary stake in the game you have to be careful with what they say as they wouldn’t say something that would hurt their sales even if it’s right.

I agree with you he seems to have good credentials. But blasting a multi full of b12 well beyond the point any human could absorb even a fraction of it (like every other pill on the market) isn’t sound science

I know I’m straw manning a bit here as it’s just one aspect but I would personally be just as skeptical of the quality and science behind that product as any other multi

revelations

10-24-2018, 03:02 PM

:rofl:

Zenops 2.0?

I know - its pretty funny eh? Especially when it has been reported in Scientific American.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/

We obviously still need our fruits and vegetables, but they arent the same as 60 years ago as far as nutrition.

J-hop

10-24-2018, 03:16 PM

I know - its pretty funny eh? Especially when it has been reported in Scientific American.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/

That is and isn’t true. If you actually read the study in the 13 nutrients studied 6 showed declines while 7 showed no change. Those changes ranged from -6% (negligible?) to 38%.

I haven’t seen a study (even a theoretical one) that looks at if that decrease would have any effect on overall health.
Riboflavin for example (the nutrient with the 38% decrease over the study period) it seems is very easy to exceed the daily requirements.

Results from study:

As a group, the 43 foods show apparent, statistically reliable declines (R < 1) for 6 nutrients (protein, Ca, P, Fe, riboflavin and ascorbic acid), but no statistically reliable changes for 7 other nutrients. Declines in the medians range from 6% for protein to 38% for riboflavin.

revelations

10-24-2018, 03:46 PM

That was not my contention. My position is that there has been measurable, nutritional soil depletion, which was countered by a 'tin foil hat' type of argument, which I then showed evidence for.

The greater implications of this are for others to discuss.

max_boost

10-24-2018, 04:24 PM

No strong evidence for multivitamins. Don't waste your $$.

What about other stuff like Vitamin D? Fish oils? etc.

:eek:

89coupe

10-24-2018, 05:20 PM

What about other stuff like Vitamin D? Fish oils? etc.

:eek:

The sun is a great source of vitamin D

Star1995

10-24-2018, 05:23 PM

Have you tried an apple, banana, orange, broccoli... I find these among others are the best.

A790

10-24-2018, 07:49 PM

... He's not entirely wrong.

He's not "entirely" wrong.

He's not wrong at all.

Soil nutrition depletion is researched and understood. It's not up for debate and has been objectively demonstrated in studies conducted globally.

Buster

10-24-2018, 08:30 PM

A790

10-24-2018, 08:44 PM

So people are willing to recognize the science that has determined the soil is changing, and yet immediately discard the science that says there are no benefits to taking multi-vitamins.

Interesting.

How about that climate change thing that people on this forum are convinced isn't happening?

Buster

10-24-2018, 08:54 PM

How about that climate change thing that people on this forum are convinced isn't happening?

not me.

all in tesla.

msommers

10-25-2018, 09:49 AM

How about that climate change thing that people on this forum are convinced isn't happening?

Because vaccines cause autism.

And bad science that appeals to your idea of "right" makes it fact. Until it doesn't:
https://qz.com/1069298/the-3-of-scientific-papers-that-deny-climate-change-are-all-flawed/?fbclid=IwAR16YUZGBJWjTLIFklWcW2b9FT8_zh_XcsfQ4u8HTW0GEaR2e5LXTdIoYa4

duaner

10-25-2018, 10:31 AM

Go here for information on a lot of supplements:

https://examine.com/nutrition/do-you-need-a-multivitamin/

According to their Supplement-Goals Reference Guide (which I purchased several years ago; probably equivalent to their A-to-Z Supplement Reference), no multi is necessary but people are likely underdosing vitamins D and K. Others they list that are difficult to get the optimal levels in the diet are calcium, iron (for low/no meat eaters), magnesium, and zinc (mostly for people who sweat a lot). Fish oil is good to balance meat intake, unless fatty fish intake is also sufficient.

nismodrifter

10-25-2018, 02:51 PM

What about other stuff like Vitamin D? Fish oils? etc.

:eek:

Evidence strongly supports Vit D supplementation for every single Canadian.

Around 2011-2012 the debate was quite heated, every single patient coming in begging for their vitamin D to be checked.

Fast forward to 2018, it's very simple, if you are in Canada you should take vitamin D. The test is no longer covered as its deemed unnecessary, costs $35.

http://www.topalbertadoctors.org/uploads/102912_Bzds37w2W3fC57Vz_92317.pdf

^The guideline.

lee88

10-25-2018, 04:24 PM

These are my go to multi-vitamin Controlled Labs Orange Triad

http://www.controlledlabs.com/product/orange-triad-orange-triad-best-supplement-for-serious-athletes/

firebane

10-25-2018, 04:55 PM

The sun is a great source of vitamin D

Not true. Many people are deficient because of the amount t of Vitamin D we get from the sun.

If you get a check done you will probably be deficient too.

HiTempguy1

10-25-2018, 05:28 PM

My position is that there has been measurable, nutritional soil depletion

Lulz

http://soils.wisc.edu/facstaff/barak/poster_gallery/minneapolis2000a/

Oh shit, I posted a link from a university backed study as well. What is appears to be is a situation just like multi-vitamins (no real evidence to support or deny the claim).

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/a-decline-in-the-nutritional-value-of-crops.html

Damn, the NY Times and their conservative right wing conspiracy peddling science deniers!

https://www.gardenmyths.com/soil-fertility-decreasing/

Not a white paper, but has referenced sources for their information.

Christ, you guys are as bad as Phreak with his overpopulation crap. What's that thing about smart people believing their own bullshit?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-smart-people-are-dumb

ExtraSlow

10-25-2018, 05:54 PM

Wait, are you a smart guy who's dumb or a dumb guy who's smart or what?

Can't we all just be regular people who have confirmation bias and no higher than average insight?

revelations

10-25-2018, 05:58 PM

Lulz

http://soils.wisc.edu/facstaff/barak/poster_gallery/minneapolis2000a/

Oh shit, I posted a link from a university backed study as well. What is appears to be is a situation just like multi-vitamins (no real evidence to support or deny the claim).

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/science/a-decline-in-the-nutritional-value-of-crops.html

Damn, the NY Times and their conservative right wing conspiracy peddling science deniers!

https://www.gardenmyths.com/soil-fertility-decreasing/

Not a white paper, but has referenced sources for their information.

Christ, you guys are as bad as Phreak with his overpopulation crap. What's that thing about smart people believing their own bullshit?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-smart-people-are-dumb

Thanks for agreeing with my position - right from one of your links :confused:

Donald R. Davis, the lead author of the 2004 study, wrote a review of evidence of nutrition loss in fruits and vegetables in 2009. He concluded that the broad evidence of nutritional decline seemed difficult to dismiss,

Mitsu3000gt

10-29-2018, 09:28 AM

I ended up ordering these just to try:

https://www.amazon.ca/Adam-Mens-Multi-Tablets-Count/dp/B00ILOS8C4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1540826802&sr=8-1&keywords=now+adam+mens

They had essentially the same rating on Labdoor for efficacy and ingredient safety at the Vitamin Codes, were $27 cheaper, and recommended dosage was 2/day instead of 4/day.

We'll see if I notice any difference at all.

ZenOps

11-02-2018, 09:19 AM

Zinc-free gummy vitamins (vitafusion)

Cuz, two gummies equals a standard vitamin. So I only take one, because I'm pretty sure at most I need to just cover a minor deficiency at most. If I ate too many ramen noodles on the week, then two gummies per day.

Chalk vitamins suck, because I'm pretty sure in Alberta we get far too much of that type of mineral in our hard water anyways.

ExtraSlow

11-02-2018, 09:21 AM

Zinc is awesome, why would you avoid it?

ZenOps

11-02-2018, 09:24 AM

Zinc should be taken separately if you think you need it.

89coupe

11-02-2018, 09:24 AM

Not true. Many people are deficient because of the amount t of Vitamin D we get from the sun.

If you get a check done you will probably be deficient too.

My levels are just fine.

I have my blood work done every year.

suntan

11-02-2018, 10:45 AM

Vit D, unless you drink milk.

Magnesium. Almost impossible to get enough.

Mitsu3000gt

11-02-2018, 11:50 AM

Vit D, unless you drink milk.

Magnesium. Almost impossible to get enough.

I've read mixed things abut magnesium. My doctor told me to be really careful with it because it can slow your heartbeat. I really haven't looked into it too much to be honest though. Milti-Vitamins also seem to have really low quantities of it, presumably to reduce the chance of getting too much but I really don't know for sure.

I actually have a Dr appointment coming up, I will ask again.

tonytiger55

11-02-2018, 11:57 AM

Misterman

11-02-2018, 02:40 PM

Mitsu3000gt

11-02-2018, 02:44 PM

Best Vitamins for quality that I have seen are ones most people won't even give the time to look into. They're made by Nutrilite, which is an Amway company. See, told you. lol. Full disclosure I have nothing to do with Amway or sell their stuff or anything. But their vitamins are hands down the best quality I've seen to date so I use them.

Independent laboratory tests have them measuring quite horribly - not far off the worst they have tested in fact:

https://labdoor.com/review/amway-nutrilite-daily

ExtraSlow

11-02-2018, 03:11 PM

But he's "SEEN" them to be best quality.

msommers

11-02-2018, 03:21 PM

I prefer the sniff test to determine quality - it's how I got the nickname Bloodhound Matt

Regarding Vit D, I'd wager that a majority of the people reading this thread need to take extra, especially during the winter months.

sabad66

11-02-2018, 03:49 PM

i have used GNC mega men for around 10 years now. The bottle suggests two a day but i've only ever taken one (in the mornings).

Lately i've been lazy and haven't taken them much, but when i'm working out again ill take them daily again. Anecdotally i found my muscle gains to be better with a multi, but obviously that should be taken with a grain of salt.

Good to see they are fairly highly rated on that labdoor site.

Mitsu3000gt

11-02-2018, 03:52 PM

But he's "SEEN" them to be best quality.

He's on a roll today:

Why would I want to guarantee myself getting flu "symptoms" by getting the shot

There's no positive consequence to getting the flu shot, but there is guaranteed negative consequences

Best Vitamins for quality that I have seen are ones most people won't even give the time to look into.

Stay tuned for: "10 reasons why smoking is good for you, but nobody knows it yet. What doctors DON'T want you to know. You won't BELIEVE #7"

J-hop

11-03-2018, 08:02 AM

I used to take these in the UK.
Wellman. I definitely noticed a difference after a week or so.

When I moved here, I took some of the GMC multivitamins. What a load of shite.

I ended up buying a batch of the Wellman stuff whenever I go back.

83845

Keep in mind noticing a short term difference might not be a good thing. Some of these are packed with as much b6/b12 as an average energy drink purposely so people think they’re working, when in reality you’re just getting overloaded with B vitamin

Looking at Wellman it’s got more b12 than a redbull can.

I can almost gauruntee the difference you’re seeing is due to being slammed with b vitamin (actually says it right on the package it uses b vitamin for energy)

Also contains arginine which is in a lot of pre-workouts to promote blood flow.

Just be careful when you use anecdotal evidence to suggest the quality of one product vs another because it will probably be for the wrong reasons. Pumping yourself full of b-vitamin daily isn’t necessarily a good thing. Even though in the short term it may feel like it’s doing good things

tonytiger55

11-04-2018, 12:09 AM

Keep in mind noticing a short term difference might not be a good thing. Some of these are packed with as much b6/b12 as an average energy drink purposely so people think they’re working, when in reality you’re just getting overloaded with B vitamin

Looking at Wellman it’s got more b12 than a redbull can.

I can almost gauruntee the difference you’re seeing is due to being slammed with b vitamin (actually says it right on the package it uses b vitamin for energy)

Also contains arginine which is in a lot of pre-workouts to promote blood flow.

Just be careful when you use anecdotal evidence to suggest the quality of one product vs another because it will probably be for the wrong reasons. Pumping yourself full of b-vitamin daily isn’t necessarily a good thing. Even though in the short term it may feel like it’s doing good things

So would you say this product is bad for me?

J-hop

11-04-2018, 07:51 AM

So would you say this product is bad for me?

Not necessarily, just your deduction that GNC is crap and Wellman isn’t because you felt a difference is not valid. Multis are packed full of additional useless crap to give you energy boosts and make you feel different when in reality they haven’t done anything beneficial for you..

They are both equally crap in terms of scientific backing, pick your favourite if you’re going to use them but I wouldn’t go as far as suggesting one is better than the other.

tonytiger55

11-04-2018, 11:24 AM

Not necessarily, just your deduction that GNC is crap and Wellman isn’t because you felt a difference is not valid. Multis are packed full of additional useless crap to give you energy boosts and make you feel different when in reality they haven’t done anything beneficial for you..

They are both equally crap in terms of scientific backing, pick your favourite if you’re going to use them but I wouldn’t go as far as suggesting one is better than the other.

I see your point. Are you arguing that the multivitamins are more of a stimulant then..?
GNC did not make me feel good if im honest. That why I found it crap.

Maybe my method of comparison is complete bollocks.
I have a juicer, and after drinking a mixture of oranges, apples and some veggies. After the third day, I feel a difference. Same thing when I eat proper non processed foods. After a week or so I start to feel better.
That was my comparison to the multivitamin.

Should a multi vitamin make you feel better?

Misterman

11-05-2018, 11:21 AM

Independent laboratory tests have them measuring quite horribly - not far off the worst they have tested in fact:

https://labdoor.com/review/amway-nutrilite-daily

Quotes quality. Links to site with no mention of quality. lol Solid!!

If that site is legitimate and Nutrilite is underdosed, that is rather unfortunate though.

msommers

11-05-2018, 11:27 AM

Quotes quality. Links to site with no mention of quality. lol Solid!!

Vitamin C stood out as the worst offense–measuring at nearly 69% below its claim.

First paragraph. Sure screams excellent quality doesn't it.

Mitsu3000gt

11-05-2018, 11:29 AM

Quotes quality. Links to site with no mention of quality. lol Solid!!

You do not think that Product Purity, Nutritional Value, Ingredient safety, and Efficacy are measures of quality when discussing a supplement? Please, share your data with us, along with all the different measures of "quality" that do not include those previously mentioned.

We keep showing you actual data - you keep telling us about things you "see". Why not share some objective data with us to support your claims? You seem to be having a lot of trouble with that.

Misterman

11-05-2018, 11:31 AM

First paragraph. Sure screams excellent quality doesn't it.

Doesn't scream anything about quality. Quantity is a measure of cost effectiveness. If you have garbage quality lab synthesized vitamins that advertise 1000mg and test at 1000mg, you're still getting a shitty quality vitamin, you're just getting more of it.

Misterman

11-05-2018, 11:47 AM

You do not think that Product Purity, Nutritional Value, Ingredient safety, and Efficacy are measures of quality when discussing a supplement? Please, share your data with us, along with all the different measures of "quality" that do not include those previously mentioned.

We keep showing you actual data - you keep telling us about things you "see". Why not share some objective data with us to support your claims? You seem to be having a lot of trouble with that.

You think that listing a "test" with vague subjective factors that have no description whatsoever, of an out of date product that I'm not sure is even sold any longer, and then trying to making claim of all the things the test checks for, as if to say it tested poorly despite what the link you yourself posted shows, classifies as "actual data"? You can file that with your anecdotal flu shot "data". So I guess you're the Beyond version of 780's Maverick. I'll just get you on ignore now then. Keep it real.

Mitsu3000gt

11-05-2018, 11:51 AM

You think that listing a "test" with vague subjective factors that have no description whatsoever, of an out of date product that I'm not sure is even sold any longer, and then trying to making claim of all the things the test checks for, as if to say it tested poorly despite what the link you yourself posted shows, classifies as "actual data"? You can file that with your anecdotal flu shot "data". So I guess you're the Beyond version of 780's Maverick. I'll just get you on ignore now then. Keep it real.

Yet another post where you completely ignore our requests for objective data supporting your argument...I wonder why that is.

And if you think peer reviewed medical science and the CDC are anecdotal, you either have mental issues or you are simply trolling.

Once again I will ask you to show us your data that proves all of these things wrong. Or are you going to ignore the request again? Putting me on ignore isn't going to make your lack of data any less obvious.