Pipeline Rally at City Hall Today

[phreezee]

https://www.facebook.com/events/281962042666428/

Today at 12:15 PM – 1:15 PM
5°C Partly Cloudy

Calgary Municipal Building
Calgary, Alberta

[Buster]

what is the purpose of these rallies?

[ExtraSlow]

what is the purpose of these rallies?

"raise awareness"

[lasimmon]

what is the purpose of these rallies?

Well for one thing if they could get 50,000 people to them like Quebec does or European protests do people may actually listen.

Getting a couple 100 people doesn't move the needle.

[killramos]

The protest is predicated in the premise that our elected officials in Ottawa care about what Albertans or Calgarians want.

Seems like a flawed foundation to be working from.

End of the day even a 5-10% swing (huge) in Albertan votes from Liberal to conservative or vice versa will change absolutely nothing in a federal election, so why should we expect anything will change.

Such is the flaw Alberta’s place in confederation.

[dirtsniffer]

Every other jurisdiction in Canada has better representation than Alberta.

If the other provinces had the same number of people per riding:
Ontario would lose 9 seats
Quebec would lose 10 seats
BC would lose 3 seats
Maritimes would lose 12 seats.

Fuck us, right?

[Buster]

The protest is predicated in the premise that our elected officials in Ottawa care about what Albertans or Calgarians want.

Seems like a flawed foundation to be working from.

End of the day even a 5-10% swing (huge) in Albertan votes from Liberal to conservative or vice versa will change absolutely nothing in a federal election, so why should we expect anything will change.

Such is the flaw Alberta’s place in confederation.

Rallies such as this are dangerous if you want actual action: they trick people into thinking they are doing something relevant in the place of real action.

It's a manifestation of an echo chamber.

[Buster]

I looked a while ago, and AB has twice as many people per riding compared to places in the maritimes and 30% more than those fucking easteners.

If you think that the Federal government is going to re-balance ridings to be representative of the population and/or actual representation, you're dreaming. The entire point of confederation is to centralize power in Ontario and now Quebec. It's not a bug it's a feature.

[dirtsniffer]

THe constitutional seat minimum is such bullshit. The maritimes have the almost the same number of MPs as Alberta, with half the fucking population.

[kertejud2]

If you think that the Federal government is going to re-balance ridings to be representative of the population and/or actual representation, you're dreaming. The entire point of confederation is to centralize power in Ontario and now Quebec. It's not a bug it's a feature.

Well Ontario is also under-represented relative to the national average and Quebec is basically right on the national average, so that's not really where the imbalance is coming from. If things got adjusted to that, Ontario would get 16 more seats to Alberta's 5. Hell, even Quebec would sneak another 3 more in.

[Buster]

Well Ontario is also under-represented relative to the national average and Quebec is basically right on the national average, so that's not really where the imbalance is coming from. If things got adjusted to that, Ontario would get 16 more seats to Alberta's 5. Hell, even Quebec would sneak another 3 more in.

Be that as it may, once you hit a minimum level of influence, more is not necessary. Ontario (and Quebec) are there - and I don't see them giving up their hegemony willingly.

[kertejud2]

Be that as it may, once you hit a minimum level of influence, more is not necessary.

Replace influence with income and you're thinking like a true liberal, comrade.

[ExtraSlow]

Replace influence with income and you're thinking like a true liberal, comrade.
Perfect.

[Buster]

Replace influence with income and you're thinking like a true liberal, comrade.

lol

[HiTempguy1]

Replace influence with income and you're thinking like a true liberal, comrade.

I repped that post. Credit where credit is due, funny shit right there.

[phreezee]

Great turn our, 2700! https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-pro-pipeline-rally-1.4949611

[googe]

This seems as dumb as the women's march. Do people know what they are protesting? The pipeline is blocked by the courts until the consultation requirements are met, not by Ottawa. Trudeau supports the pipeline. Notley supports the pipeline.

[Buster]

This seems as dumb as the women's march. Do people know what they are protesting? The pipeline is blocked by the courts until the consultation requirements are met, not by Ottawa. Trudeau supports the pipeline. Notley supports the pipeline.

which branch(s) of government control the process upon which the courts adjudicate?

[dirtsniffer]

Northern gateway was blocked by the courts? How about energy east?

[Brent.ff]

Northern gateway was blocked by the courts?

Northern Gateway was considered the worst example of FN Consultation, to the point that pretty well every other pipeline company took it as the base on how to not consult or how to complete an environmental assessment. It would have been quashed in court faster then TM

[Misterman]

Rallies such as this are dangerous if you want actual action: they trick people into thinking they are doing something relevant in the place of real action.

It's a manifestation of an echo chamber.


A large scale movement has to have starting roots somewhere. If nobody ever publicly shows support in a large group at something like a rally, then how will a large enough group ever amass to form a citizen army for revolt?

[phreezee]

Rally yesterday, $1.6B from Ottawa today! lol
https://energynow.ca/2018/12/ottawa-offers-help-for-oil-gas-to-reach-new-markets-no-money-for-rail-cars-yet-2/

[lasimmon]

Northern Gateway was considered the worst example of FN Consultation, to the point that pretty well every other pipeline company took it as the base on how to not consult or how to complete an environmental assessment. It would have been quashed in court faster then TM

And yet there are what 20 Indigenous groups now suing the government over cancelling of the Northern Gateway?

[phreezee]

A large scale movement has to have starting roots somewhere. If nobody ever publicly shows support in a large group at something like a rally, then how will a large enough group ever amass to form a citizen army for revolt?

To your point, our opposition is louder and better organized. Of the last 3 Calgary rallies, this one has had the largest turnout and media attention.
We are showing we can organize and grow in our support for our industry and province.

[Brent.ff]

And yet there are what 20 Indigenous groups now suing the government over cancelling of the Northern Gateway?

And there would be 20 other ones suing if it went through, its not like its one voice in NW BC.

[04Terminator]

Myself and 2 coworkers went to check out and support the rally yesterday, but turned around when we saw the yellow vests.

A French pro-welfare, pro basic income movement we wanted no part of. Unfortunate attempt to jump on and appropriate a populatist symbol from socialists.

[phreezee]

^ Agreed, people were even told to leave the yellow vests out of this on the Facebook page.

[Misterman]

To your point, our opposition is louder and better organized. Of the last 3 Calgary rallies, this one has had the largest turnout and media attention.
We are showing we can organize and grow in our support for our industry and province.

The right has never had much time to get organized, or never felt the need. They were too busy going out supporting their families and contributing. But lately things are shifting to a point where a lot of people that just want to go to work and mind their business, no longer have that option. So they're applying motivations to things like this. It's good to see our side starting to play the game a little better.

[sabad66]

which branch(s) of government control the process upon which the courts adjudicate?

serious question: could the liberals simply pass a law that changes the process so that there is no consultation requirement for pipelines and solve this whole thing? if so, wouldn't that new law then be challenged right away after, and very likely be struck down?

[Misterman]

serious question: could the liberals simply pass a law that changes the process so that there is no consultation requirement for pipelines and solve this whole thing? if so, wouldn't that new law then be challenged right away after, and very likely be struck down?


Never know unless they try. Instead they're passing legislation to make the consultation process even harder.

[killramos]

Well they could certainly legislate clarification within the process as to what counts as meaningful consultation.

If it was as simple as hosting a town hall in every municipality over x residents within y km of the project this could be cleared up in a Couple months.

Instead it has turned into letting anyone and their dog who claims native heritage hold companies ransom for indefinite periods of time. Why would anyone invest money in Canada under that system.

[never]

Instead it has turned into letting anyone and their dog who claims native heritage hold companies ransom for indefinite periods of time. Why would anyone invest money in Canada under that system.

And with the proposed changes, it can be anyone. I guess on the plus side, once passed, Albertans can start intervening on proposed projects in QC/ON and BC.