Portfolio - monthly luxury vehicle subscription

[Team_Mclaren]

Just came out recently by openroad group in Vancouver area. Looks actually pretty decent for 2500/month including insurance, maintenance, deliveries etc. I guess they are pretty popular in major US cities, not sure if there's one in Canada. Selections are not bad, including Lexus LS/ Audi S6 etc

https://www.portfoliobyopenroad.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA05zhBRCMARIsACKDWjdcCkrciMTRhS0ivGQdCeprIBKtzFP62dnL8iwKQK003VIw8r9OOvIaAvQNEALw_wcB

[J-hop]

I seem to remember a few years ago now someone on here was working to set up something similar, can’t remember who.

[ercchry]

$1/km and no gas included is pretty steep for the average vehicle on that list... car2go is a miles better deal in comparison... but of course much more limited selection

[roopi]

$1/km and no gas included is pretty steep for the average vehicle on that list... car2go is a miles better deal in comparison... but of course much more limited selection

2500km included per month and they rollover.

[Buster]

I think a lease for an E63S would be less than that including insurance and maintenance package?

[DustanS]

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[J-hop]

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[killramos]

I think a lease for an E63S would be less than that including insurance and maintenance package?

I mean, I don’t think this is expected to be a better deal than buying a car. Got to factor in pretty huge margins for how terribly these cars will be treated and honestly, good luck pawning off the year or 2 old models on anyone.

[Sugarphreak]

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[spikerS]

2500$ a month for mid level luxury vehicles with additional mileage surcharges?

No F-ing thanks

for most of the population, yeah, no one will touch that.

However, there will be some who will, because of reasons.

[Misterman]

I think a lease for an E63S would be less than that including insurance and maintenance package?

That's most likely irrelevant to anybody that would be interested in something like this. You're paying a premium so you can drive different cars all the time and not take a bath on them at the dealer when you trade it back in, plus no credit checks and stacks of paperwork every time you want a change.

I had an idea to set up something like this just as a way to fund my own vehicle addiction. I certainly don't have space to own 8 different vehicles, but I can easily think of 8 vehicles I'd want to drive on a regular basis. A car sharing service would be optimal. Fixed month ownership cost, none of the ownership hassles, and all of the benefits of owning multiple vehicles. Plus insurance is included, that's a damn 700$/month savings for me right there.

[rage2]

2500$ a month for mid level luxury vehicles with additional mileage surcharges?

No F-ing thanks
These are 1400-1600 to lease on high mileage for a base car, and you get higher mileage allowance (30k vs 24k on a high mileage lease). Add another 200-300 bucks if it’s optioned out. Another 150-200 for insurance. It’s not that bad of a deal if it’s not a base car, especially if you like to trade cars often.

[J-hop]

That's most likely irrelevant to anybody that would be interested in something like this. You're paying a premium so you can drive different cars all the time and not take a bath on them at the dealer when you trade it back in, plus no credit checks and stacks of paperwork every time you want a change.

I had an idea to set up something like this just as a way to fund my own vehicle addiction. I certainly don't have space to own 8 different vehicles, but I can easily think of 8 vehicles I'd want to drive on a regular basis. A car sharing service would be optimal. Fixed month ownership cost, none of the ownership hassles, and all of the benefits of owning multiple vehicles. Plus insurance is included, that's a damn 700$/month savings for me right there.

People rarely seem to factor in depreciation in their vehicle purchases. Say a depreciation of $5k in the first year of ownership you’re technically spending (losing) an extra $416 dollars/month.

[Misterman]

People rarely seem to factor in depreciation in their vehicle purchases. Say a depreciation of $5k in the first year of ownership you’re technically spending (losing) an extra $416 dollars/month.

And a more realistic depreciation of 15k/yr it gets even more lopsided.

[J-hop]

And a more realistic depreciation of 15k/yr it gets even more lopsided.

Yea I was being super conservative, so as not to be accused of hyperbole haha.

[Buster]

People rarely seem to factor in depreciation in their vehicle purchases. Say a depreciation of $5k in the first year of ownership you’re technically spending (losing) an extra $416 dollars/month.

It's built into the lease costs we're quoting.

[J-hop]

It's built into the lease costs we're quoting.

Yea I guess I was thinking of financing vs lease, that’s true.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

You guys always say these things are a good deal... but 2500$ is 30K a year. Then add on the 1$ per km surcharge and you are looking at probably 40K a year.

Half the cars on that list are only 60K vehicles, and they are writing off the depreciation along with fuel, insurance, and maintenance costs... so why is the full cost getting passed along to the consumer?


Really though, my biggest problem is that those cars get driven by other people... and not just regular people that at worst fart in the seat or spill coffee; We are talking ultra big dick swinging douchebags getting their greasy hair product and various gentleman sauces all over the car, whilst bagging the shit out of it at every stop light so they can justify the expense.

New cars FTW... fuck this car sharing poser shit, haha
You drive more than 30k a year? If so this ain’t for you. Want to get the most bang for the buck? Don’t pick the $65k vehicles. Stick with the S450 or something. The price includes full detail washes too.

[killramos]

Unless they come get it from my office for the wash... who has time for that shit.

[rage2]

Unless they come get it from my office for the wash... who has time for that shit.
When I picked up my E53, I worked an hour at Lone Star, 2 hrs at Integra Tire, and an hour at Shadow Tint haha.

[Sugarphreak]

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[killramos]

When I picked up my E53, I worked an hour at Lone Star, 2 hrs at Integra Tire, and an hour at Shadow Tint haha.

Exactly lol

[rage2]

30K is the base 2500$ a month.... 10K would be for 10,000 kms, which is about what I would expect for light driving. So 40K a year annually.

30K in mileage would be like 60,000$ a year, you might as well just buy the car and then burn it at the end of the year with rates like that

yeah you could get the more expensive cars, but wouldn't everybody using the service be doing that? I just feel like you'd go in and get shut down when you wanted to switch over to something else with companies like this.
$2499 comes with 2500km per month so $30k a year comes with 30,000kms a year. The $1 per km is if you go over that.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Disoblige]

I see this being very popular for rich students coming here for school or temporary residents. Drive semi-baller different cars with no commitment and hassle after. When you're done, you just drop it off and peace.
Pretty good idea and price isn't that bad. Also if you're space limited, it's a good opportunity to drive both small and large cars at the same time since you can flip it. If they had a truck option, that would be even better as you can use it to haul stuff :rofl:

Definitely see it working well in Vancouver; not too sure about Calgary.

[Tik-Tok]

Someone should start one in Calgary for lifted 4x4's. Perfect for rig workers who aren't home 1/2 the time.

[Skrilla]

Someone should start one in Calgary for lifted 4x4's. Perfect for rig workers who aren't home 1/2 the time.

I can only speak for myself and guys I work/worked with but those trucks would be a fucking crime scene disaster after 6 months, if that.

[BavarianBeast]

Buying most supercars you will barely lose $25k/year from depreciation and other expenses. Buy the right ones and you wont lose a dime. Sounds like a rip off.

[killramos]

^ they sure will if you drive them 30,000km a year.

How many engine out services are there in a Ferrari in 30,000km lol

[you&me]

^ they sure will if you drive them 30,000km a year.

How many engine out services are there in a Ferrari in 30,000km lol

None...

[killramos]

Never owned one but isn’t that what they are notorious for? I’ll bet many of them need one if you are putting 30k on in a year lol

5 seconds of google foo says 15k and 30k (miles) on an f430 so that’s at least one a year with that mileage.

[you&me]

Never owned one but isn’t that what they are notorious for? I’ll bet many of them need one if you are putting 30k on in a year lol

5 seconds of google foo says 15k and 30k (miles) on an f430 so that’s at least one a year with that mileage.

I was just being cheeky... Ferraris haven't needed belts since the 360s (even though you didn't need to take the engine "out" to do the service).

I assumed BB's post was referring to new(er) supercars not (necessarily) depreciating $25k / year... And the new(er) Ferraris don't require an engine out service. In fact, routine maintenance is included...

[Xtrema]

What stops somebody from hogging the Q8, Velar and S450s?

Those are definitely better bang for bucks than SQ5 or GLE if you are paying for the same price.

[Disoblige]

Just thought of something.. I wish they called it Flip instead lol.

[Misterman]

What stops somebody from hogging the Q8, Velar and S450s?

Those are definitely better bang for bucks than SQ5 or GLE if you are paying for the same price.

People keep talking about bang for buck, or trying to compare the value between having this service or just purchasing a vehicle. Clearly they do not understand the point of this.

It's a LUXURY service. It's not a value buy. The fact that not everyone wants to drive a gigantic behemoth of a vehicle should sort out anyone hogging the big vehicles. People aren't purchasing this service and then saying to themselves "How am I going to extrude every dollar of value I can get out of this?" They're going to grab whatever the heck looks nice that day, or suits their needs for the time being.

[killramos]

People keep talking about bang for buck, or trying to compare the value between having this service or just purchasing a vehicle. Clearly they do not understand the point of this.

It's a LUXURY service. It's not a value buy. The fact that not everyone wants to drive a gigantic behemoth of a vehicle should sort out anyone hogging the big vehicles. People aren't purchasing this service and then saying to themselves "How am I going to extrude every dollar of value I can get out of this?" They're going to grab whatever the heck looks nice that day, or suits their needs for the time being.

So just the Q8, the RR, and the S class then :rofl:

[rage2]

People keep talking about bang for buck, or trying to compare the value between having this service or just purchasing a vehicle. Clearly they do not understand the point of this.

It's a LUXURY service. It's not a value buy. The fact that not everyone wants to drive a gigantic behemoth of a vehicle should sort out anyone hogging the big vehicles. People aren't purchasing this service and then saying to themselves "How am I going to extrude every dollar of value I can get out of this?" They're going to grab whatever the heck looks nice that day, or suits their needs for the time being.
I mentioned it in the Porsche service thread, but for those that maintain 2 cars here (one for winter and one for summer) this is way cheaper.

[BavarianBeast]

I mentioned it in the Porsche service thread, but for those that maintain 2 cars here (one for winter and one for summer) this is way cheaper.

Depends what your winter and summer cars are. Sure, if you buy brand new cars at MSRP that depreciate like rocks and have tons of issues with them it might be. Find slightly used cars that don't tend to depreciate as much and you should never end up seeing over $25k/year go out the window with depreciation and maintenance.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I like the idea, but that is a REALLY weak fleet offering and there aren't even any real performance cars other than the base model Cayman, which is great but pretty low-tier in the world of exclusive sports cars. No big AMG's, M, or RS models. And base model for the S-class wtf haha. I feel like if people were so loaded they had money to burn for something like this, they wouldn't want such mediocre (relatively speaking) cars.

[shakalaka]

i like the idea, but that is a really weak fleet offering and there aren't even any real performance cars other than the base model cayman, which is great but pretty low-tier in the world of exclusive sports cars. No big amg's, m, or rs models. And base model for the s-class wtf haha. I feel like if people were so loaded they had money to burn for something like this, they wouldn't want such mediocre (relatively speaking) cars.

:werd:

[ercchry]

:werd:

Have your lease payments hit $2500 yet? :rofl:

[shakalaka]

Have your lease payments hit $2500 yet? :rofl:

Far from it. But I would seriously consider this if it was available for us and if they had better, actual proper sports cars.

[ercchry]

This is probably fleet coverage. Car2go and also any company I have had to drive a vehicle with require abstracts to be pulled, and the average quality of the driver pool is a factor in dictating rates

[Buster]

If we look at what the leasing price of these is, and what the pricing of their service is, it seems that they are probably making about $500 or so in GP per vehicle a month. Might be more, but $500 is a round number. So each vehicle is $6000 in GP per year. If you have 50 vehicles, that's only $300,000 in GP per year. But I doubt they have 50 vehicles.

[Mitsu3000gt]

No doubt there is a premium compared to leasing for the 'privilege' of swapping cars around, but they picked a fleet such that I don't think it really matters what you pick haha. There is little incentive to swap cars with that fleet. It's all so boring and almost everything is a base model. I'd also guess those cars get beat on like crazy, so unless they are replaced every year they are probably really rough samples.

[rage2]

If we look at what the leasing price of these is, and what the pricing of their service is, it seems that they are probably making about $500 or so in GP per vehicle a month. Might be more, but $500 is a round number. So each vehicle is $6000 in GP per year. If you have 50 vehicles, that's only $300,000 in GP per year. But I doubt they have 50 vehicles.
Assuming they're operating at 100% capacity, which would make flipping almost impossible.

[you&me]

Assuming they're operating at 100% capacity, which would make flipping almost impossible.

Exactly. There needs to be enough 'slack' to make it work.

Edit - 50 units doesn't seem like it would be nearly enough to make sense of this from any side.

I know a dealer group in the US that's offering a similar subscription business. Well the subscription business is seemingly profitable, believe it or not, their main motivation for doing it is to pump their sales numbers to the manufacturer. There are all kinds of incentives dealerships get for hitting or exceeding certain sales targets. So much so, that at the right scale, the incentives from the manufacturers would financially dwarf the subscription business...

[ercchry]

Exactly. There needs to be enough 'slack' to make it work.

I wonder what “slack” vs offering inducements to people to swap looks like... or perhaps the better model is adding a new enticing model which would function as a hybrid of the two?

[you&me]

I just mean in any subscription or sharing model, there needs to be some excess capacity.

Portfolio isn't going to have 50 members and just 50 vehicles.

[Buster]

Assuming they're operating at 100% capacity, which would make flipping almost impossible.

Ya I was just pulling numbers from my ass.

[Misterman]

Depends what your winter and summer cars are. Sure, if you buy brand new cars at MSRP that depreciate like rocks and have tons of issues with them it might be. Find slightly used cars that don't tend to depreciate as much and you should never end up seeing over $25k/year go out the window with depreciation and maintenance.

2 car payments of 800$(which isn't even much of a car nowadays) each, plus insurance, and you're basically there. Obviously it depends on someones situation, but it's not far fetched to see how someone could be paying this sort of money out on average already.

[Team_Mclaren]

I think some are missing the point. You obviously don't go into a program like this when you want value for money. Most dont have 2500 in total vehicle expense a month.
An Audi S6 would run you around 1700 for a 36 month lease on 25k a year, plus say 200-300 for insurance that'd put you at close to 2K not including maintenance. I dont think the number is as outrageous as some thinks. Hell I've seen people lose more money trading in a car within a year lose more than the extra $500 a month on any lease.

- - - Updated - - -


I mentioned it in the Porsche service thread, but for those that maintain 2 cars here (one for winter and one for summer) this is way cheaper.

exactly, i know a lot of people that have this setup.

[Sugarphreak]

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[JAYMEZ]

I just realized this was a thread. I am one of the 1st apart of this program. So if anyone wants to fire me questions about it. Lemme know!

[Xtrema]

I just realized this was a thread. I am one of the 1st apart of this program. So if anyone wants to fire me questions about it. Lemme know!

Would they take on high risk drivers like some 19 yr old Chinese student just landed?

How often can you switch? Is there a waiting list? I have seen 1st hand how gross car sharing can be with Car2Go, any penalty to members who can't keep the car clean and damage free?

[Buster]

I just realized this was a thread. I am one of the 1st apart of this program. So if anyone wants to fire me questions about it. Lemme know!

Would you be willing to pay more to get the same service but the higher trim levels of these cars.

[killramos]

On that topic. How loaded are the cars?

[JAYMEZ]

Haha I am not to sure about high risk drivers. I can switch unlimited because I was the first book. I believe its 4 times a month. You use an App and say what activity you wish to do and then it matches you with the proper cars... So far I have used the mercedes S class and just flipped into a brand new Porsche Macan S (has 90kms on it) .. Its pretty handy so far.

[Team_Mclaren]

I just realized this was a thread. I am one of the 1st apart of this program. So if anyone wants to fire me questions about it. Lemme know!

oh shit, forgot you're in van now. thanks for bringing the thread back on topic.

so you dont get the pick the specific car? it matches up for you?