Negotiating on New Vehicle Purchase

[300havoc]

Hey all,

Might not be in the right place, please move if so.

Looking to be getting a new vehicle in the next couple of months. Was wondering what everyones thoughts were specifically regarding negotiation of price. Where do you start your negotiations, or what do you use to ballpark? The vehicle I'm looking at is roughly 8K over MSRP before dealer incentives, 4K over with incentives that end Tomorrow, and the vehicle is the closest to what I am looking for without ordering from factory.

What about negotiating finance rates? Is that a thing that can happen?

Thanks!

[Xtrema]

Hey all,

Might not be in the right place, please move if so.

Looking to be getting a new vehicle in the next couple of months. Was wondering what everyones thoughts were specifically regarding negotiation of price. Where do you start your negotiations, or what do you use to ballpark? The vehicle I'm looking at is roughly 8K over MSRP before dealer incentives, 4K over with incentives that end Tomorrow, and the vehicle is the closest to what I am looking for without ordering from factory.

What about negotiating finance rates? Is that a thing that can happen?

Thanks!

Use unhaggle to make sure official numbers matches whatever you got quoted.

And I assume you mean $8K over invoice instead of MSRP. And if there is $8K over invoice, you either buying something over $60K or trucks.

If factory rate sucks, you are probably looking at HELOC. Any other type of auto loans is probably going to be higher. Factory rate is not negotiable but they may do some promos for returning customers (same brand) or conquest (from brands they want to steal customers from) and that are usually 1% off.

[max_boost]

Probably depends how in demand the vehicle is. If in demand, they tell you to pound sand. If it's a car that has been sitting for a year, feel free to lowball lol

[300havoc]

Use unhaggle to make sure official numbers matches whatever you got quoted.

And I assume you mean $8K over invoice instead of MSRP. And if there is $8K over invoice, you either buying something over $60K or trucks.

If factory rate sucks, you are probably looking at HELOC. Any other type of auto loans is probably going to be higher. Factory rate is not negotiable but they may do some promos for returning customers (same brand) or conquest (from brands they want to steall customer from) and that are usually 1% off.

Sorry, I guess I messed that up. the price of the vehicle is 51K after the options added in. I wish I could get less of the options I didn't need, but no lots seem to have it.
I am just going off sticker price/pricing on the website.

Can't HELOC, because don't own a home. 4.99% is the finance rate.

Great suggestion for Unhaggle. This is what I see:
84762

I guess with the dealer incentive being almost 2K, they probably wouldn't be that willing to move closer to dealer invoice would they?

Thanks for the reply!

[NRGie]

What car?

[300havoc]

What car?

Wrangler Sahara JL, 2018.

[NRGie]

Find out what the exact rebates are. Then offer invoice + $250 - rebates

I don’t know what Jeep has for internal manufacture rebates, but certain ones give the dealer a holdback (usually between 1-3% of msrp) and delivery assistance money (between $250-500).

So when you’re buying a car at “invoice” the dealership is still making money.

December was pretty shit for sales overall in Calgary so the dealership may be willing to entertain such aggressive offers. From the stores that I have insight on, Jan isn’t shaping up to be bad, so the dealer may tell you to fuck off. But since it’s a wrangler I’d be ready to walk and wait for another one.

Also, have you looked at stores outside of Calgary?

[300havoc]

Find out what the exact rebates are. Then offer invoice + $250 - rebates

I don’t know what Jeep has for internal manufacture rebates, but certain ones give the dealer a holdback (usually between 1-3% of msrp) and delivery assistance money (between $250-500).

So when you’re buying a car at “invoice” the dealership is still making money.

December was pretty shit for sales overall in Calgary so the dealership may be willing to entertain such aggressive offers. From the stores that I have insight on, Jan isn’t shaping up to be bad, so the dealer may tell you to fuck off. But since it’s a wrangler I’d be ready to walk and wait for another one.

Also, have you looked at stores outside of Calgary?

Thanks for your suggestion.

I for sure don't mind walking and waiting, I don't *Need* a new car, I *Want* a new car.

I have looked out of Calgary, but it is hard to find the Sahara with the packages I want together, let alone without all the extra fluff that I honestly don't care about so I don't mind waiting it out. Thats why I also don't mind trying to order from the factory, but I feel like there would be less wiggle room for negotiation, plus id have to wait longer. I was thinking the 2018 because of the want to possibly clear them from the lot as the 2019's come in.

[rx7boi]

I have found that vehicles in Edmonton are cheaper than they are in Calgary.

Also, other members have had great luck buying their cars from Vancouver. shakalaka

[Clever]

Since you are looking at buying a Jeep I thought my experience with purchasing could give you an idea. Between my father in law and I, we’ve bought 4 new trucks in the last 4 years. I bought one last spring and the other was in summer of 2016, I find that deals on financing are cyclical particularly with Chrysler, if I was going to buy another truck I will definitely wait until summer. That is when they usually offer 0% financing on top of discounts, if that is what you are looking for. I also went in to the dealership with multiple quotes from other dealers local and outside Calgary (best quote I got was from a Sherwood Park) I ended up purchasing locally, the dealer here beat the quote and gave me other incentives to buy.

[Misterman]

I don't know how effective it is? Maybe others could chime in if they have experience with it. But what I have heard of people doing that claim to have success, is to just email 4 dealers on the same email, give a description of what they're looking for, and that they'd like to work with the dealer most willing to work with them.

From personal experience with Dodge, I did the online builder like you as well. I was buying a Ram2500 diesel. Online builder came out to something like 54,000$ when factoring in the "Free Cummins Upgrade"(so would've been around 63k no incentives included). I phoned the one dealer that had the truck I wanted and said I was interested in talking numbers. They told me it was a 72,000$ sticker. I said I didn't really care what the supposed sticker said, the online build tool right from Dodge says otherwise. They went back and forth with phone calls and "running things by the manager". Managed to settle on 59,000$ out the door price, tax and fees all included. So I'd say the price you're seeing online is probably more accurate than the dealers list price, it was in my case. And you have a lot more leverage since you're looking at a dime a dozen volume vehicle, not a 1 of 2 left in the country vehicle. They don't have to know that you're hung up on a very specific optioning.

[schurchill39]

I don't know how effective it is? Maybe others could chime in if they have experience with it. But what I have heard of people doing that claim to have success, is to just email 4 dealers on the same email, give a description of what they're looking for, and that they'd like to work with the dealer most willing to work with them.

From personal experience with Dodge, I did the online builder like you as well. I was buying a Ram2500 diesel. Online builder came out to something like 54,000$ when factoring in the "Free Cummins Upgrade"(so would've been around 63k no incentives included). I phoned the one dealer that had the truck I wanted and said I was interested in talking numbers. They told me it was a 72,000$ sticker. I said I didn't really care what the supposed sticker said, the online build tool right from Dodge says otherwise. They went back and forth with phone calls and "running things by the manager". Managed to settle on 59,000$ out the door price, tax and fees all included. So I'd say the price you're seeing online is probably more accurate than the dealers list price, it was in my case. And you have a lot more leverage since you're looking at a dime a dozen volume vehicle, not a 1 of 2 left in the country vehicle. They don't have to know that you're hung up on a very specific optioning.

I kind of do something similar but I don't do it through an email. When I bought my truck I called up 5 different dealerships on Monday and told them the exact truck and package I was looking for, what things I was willing to give up or have variations of, and what options were "must haves". I then told them I would give them the week to see what they had (or could source) that fit what I was looking for, and work through their numbers because I didn't want to negotiate or go back and forth and waste each others time doing the song and dance of "well let me talk to my manager". I let them know I expected one number when I called back on Friday and I would be in to buy the truck that day to whom ever had the best deal. At the end of the day I was quoted 3 very very different prices for the same truck, 2 comparable prices for slightly different options. As an added bonus I had a Maclin Ford sales rep call me dishonest and that he can't believe I'd rather deal with shaddy dealerships over him when I asked him to stop calling me every day with a different price and deals on vehicles I wasn't interested in (SUVs, cars, older pick up trucks). I was happy with that how that worked out for me in that situation.

For my wife's RDX I took the print out off of CarCostCanada.ca (I think) and used that to negotiate. It made it a lot easier because the numbers we were talking about before versus the numbers after were much different. However they were not willing to negotiate finance rate at all.

If I were to ever buy a new vehicle again, I'd be going to small town dealerships in Saskatchewan. https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/409361-W5-Undercover-shoppers-test-Calgary-car-dealershipis?highlight=saskatchewan

[Misterman]

I kind of do something similar but I don't do it through an email. When I bought my truck I called up 5 different dealerships on Monday and told them the exact truck and package I was looking for, what things I was willing to give up or have variations of, and what options were "must haves". I then told them I would give them the week to see what they had (or could source) that fit what I was looking for, and work through their numbers because I didn't want to negotiate or go back and forth and waste each others time doing the song and dance of "well let me talk to my manager". I let them know I expected one number when I called back on Friday and I would be in to buy the truck that day to whom ever had the best deal. At the end of the day I was quoted 3 very very different prices for the same truck, 2 comparable prices for slightly different options. As an added bonus I had a Maclin Ford sales rep call me dishonest and that he can't believe I'd rather deal with shaddy dealerships over him when I asked him to stop calling me every day with a different price and deals on vehicles I wasn't interested in (SUVs, cars, older pick up trucks). I was happy with that how that worked out for me in that situation.

For my wife's RDX I took the print out off of CarCostCanada.ca (I think) and used that to negotiate. It made it a lot easier because the numbers we were talking about before versus the numbers after were much different. However they were not willing to negotiate finance rate at all.

If I were to ever buy a new vehicle again, I'd be going to small town dealerships in Saskatchewan. https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/409361-W5-Undercover-shoppers-test-Calgary-car-dealershipis?highlight=saskatchewan


Carscostcanada.ca is a site I've heard good reviews about. But I paid to use it once for a Jeep GC SRT8. It seemed like complete horseshit to me, because the carscost dealer listed price was about 2000$ lower than MSRP. I don't think there is any way Dodge is making that little of a margin on those. That's a one off incident, but it definitely put a bad taste in my mouth about using that service again.

[roopi]

I just purchased a truck for my wife a few weeks ago. This was my process:

1. I researched the exact truck/options I wanted.

2. Emailed 3 dealerships in town and 1 out of town with the details and said I prefer to deal via email and I am only interested in the best all in price. So if you have any extra fees please include them all.

3. Had to reiterate last step after 3 of the 4 dealers said they would love for me to come in and take a look at the truck and they could get me the best deal.

4. After I got the offers from them I narrowed it down to two dealerships. Went into one of them and the manager came and introduced himself and said we could get a deal done today but they wanted me to write out my requested options on their offer sheet. So we did this and I gave me them my offer and we agreed on a price (which was actually lower then the emailed price by $500). He calls salesperson over and says we have a deal write it up. They ask my to sign and they omitted 4k worth of options. No clue what they were thinking here. Maybe trying to rip me off or just decided to ignore the offer sheet they wanted me to specify my options on. At this point I said I have an offer from another dealership and gave them the exact price but I'll buy it here today if you match it. They said it was impossible that the other dealership has to be losing money. I've wasted to much time at this point and just left.

5. Called the other dealership, went in and they honored the price they emailed me and I bought the truck. Should have just went there first.

6. Dealer from step 4 called me back and said to come back in. I advised them I already bought a truck. Dude lost his shit saying they would have matched the price. I didn't even want to waste my time explaining to him at this point how much of a time waste they were.

As for negotiating finance rates I've never seen this done before however some companies do have loyalty/conquest offers. So if you've had a previous vehicle with them you can get a discounted rate. Or with Toyota if you own a different vehicle they give you a conquest discounted rate.

[schurchill39]

Sounds like my experience with Maclin Ford.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Always negotiate from the bottom up with full transparency. Get them to show you a Car Cost Canada report or their dealer invoice - if they don't, find a new dealership, because you are going to see it regardless, so by them not showing it to you it's basically just a big F-U. Then they want to be your best friend again right after, as if you forgot that just happened. No thanks.

What I usually do is calculate the price I am willing to pay with a fair dealer profit, and then float the offer around via phone/email to see who bites. Many dealers won't even bother to reply, which is shocking.

Most dealers will take Invoice + $500, or less if they want to hit sales numbers targets. I wouldn't even go to the dealership unless the final purchase price was agreed to in writing before hand because dealing with them is often so painful. Make sure you are not paying any admin fees whatsoever - often you don't find out about these until you sit down to sign. If they want to sell you the vehicle below cost and add their money-grab fees instead, let them as long as your final price is the same. Do not pay for a block heater, or glass etching, or "key replacement", or locking lug nuts, and get them to throw in winter mats as it costs them almost nothing. Decline all "extras" such as paint protection, interior protection, etc. as that is where their largest margins are and the products are useless. Decline 3M unless they will beat a third party shop's price and you're confident they can do just as good of an install, which is incredibly unlikely at a Dodge dealer.

Ask about dealer incentives and research them for yourself - sometimes dealers try to keep these for themselves.

Talk to every dealer in town and surrounding Calgary, usually out of town is the best price and sometimes the Calgary dealers will match. If they refuse to deal with you over the phone or email, find someone who will - they just want you to come down so they can pressure you into a decision you're not ready to make. If they want to do the "manager dance", find a new dealer. Even if they sold you the car below cost they are still making money on holdbacks / kickbacks / volume incentives / warranty/service so ignore their sob stories. I can only imagine what shady tricks a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealer has waiting for you - good luck.

[Buster]

Some things I do...

1. Email only. All offers in an email chain with PDF documents attached.

2. Get build sheets for an in stock vehicle. Only negotiate on vehicles where the VIN is clear to all involved with the build sheet attached.

3. Only discuss otd numbers. Tell them up front they can mix and match fees above the line as they see fit.

[max_boost]

Mitsu should offer up his car negotiation skills as a side hustle :D

[jaylo]

Never deal with a Calgary dealership as your first choice.

1. Find dealerships outside Calgary, call them. Introduce yourself, then email them for the negotiation.
2. Talk over the phone, be knowledgeable, and don't be attached to the said vehicle, ask them for the PDF copy of the Quote with all the packages.
3. Place a deposit if you agree on the Quote, ensure it's refundable just in case they switch-a-roo.
4. Fly/drive to pick up the said vehicle.

- - - Updated - - -


Mitsu should offer up his car negotiation skills as a side hustle :D

I've successfully haggled on behalf of a work colleague and myself as well. And this is with the BMW dealers in Calgary, before the big shake-up/re-org by the Dilawri Group.

[ShermanEF9]

Sounds like my experience with Maclin Ford.

They told me there is no way i paid what i did for my 13 F150. I won't be returning.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

They told me there is no way i paid what i did for my 13 F150. I won't be returning.

Woodridge told me I was on crack for wanting a price on a car, 30 minutes later Maclin sold me that car at that price. I guess it happens to all dealers.

[swak]

Woodridge told me I was on crack for wanting a price on a car, 30 minutes later Maclin sold me that car at that price. I guess it happens to all dealers.

I get the same every time i've bought a vehicle.

It is ridiculous and car dealers do it to themselves... I cannot trust a single one (especially in the sales dep't). I have gone through a few car deals, and being a "nice guy" quite literally always feel like a grease-ball never okay with their price.
No other sales group is like this. I really do with that there was more transparency/honesty or something with car sales.

The best approach, already mentioned IMHO is have the dealers bid against each other.... Jump on the best deal.

[joegrang]

I just purchased a truck for my wife a few weeks ago. This was my process:

1. I researched the exact truck/options I wanted.

2. Emailed 3 dealerships in town and 1 out of town with the details and said I prefer to deal via email and I am only interested in the best all in price. So if you have any extra fees please include them all.

3. Had to reiterate last step after 3 of the 4 dealers said they would love for me to come in and take a look at the truck and they could get me the best deal.

4. After I got the offers from them I narrowed it down to two dealerships. Went into one of them and the manager came and introduced himself and said we could get a deal done today but they wanted me to write out my requested options on their offer sheet. So we did this and I gave me them my offer and we agreed on a price (which was actually lower then the emailed price by $500). He calls salesperson over and says we have a deal write it up. They ask my to sign and they omitted 4k worth of options. No clue what they were thinking here. Maybe trying to rip me off or just decided to ignore the offer sheet they wanted me to specify my options on. At this point I said I have an offer from another dealership and gave them the exact price but I'll buy it here today if you match it. They said it was impossible that the other dealership has to be losing money. I've wasted to much time at this point and just left.

5. Called the other dealership, went in and they honored the price they emailed me and I bought the truck. Should have just went there first.

6. Dealer from step 4 called me back and said to come back in. I advised them I already bought a truck. Dude lost his shit saying they would have matched the price. I didn't even want to waste my time explaining to him at this point how much of a time waste they were.

As for negotiating finance rates I've never seen this done before however some companies do have loyalty/conquest offers. So if you've had a previous vehicle with them you can get a discounted rate. Or with Toyota if you own a different vehicle they give you a conquest discounted rate.

I second this. The email is really effective. Secondly you have to be willing to walk out if you don't get exactly what you want.

[Mitsu3000gt]

They told me there is no way i paid what i did for my 13 F150. I won't be returning.

Every single vehicle I have ever purchased, I have been told this by multiple competing dealerships when they call me to follow up only to find out I've already purchased. I don't even think they even believe the words coming out of their own mouth at that point, it's just another tactic to make themselves feel better.

This also makes it easier to see how a dealership can give you their "lowest possible price" 10 times over, lowering it each time (which is why you always walk the moment they want to do the 'manager dance'). I've heard everything you can possibly imagine, from "I'm losing money on the sale" to "I'm taking money out of my own pocket at this point" LOL.

[RX_EVOLV]

Yep did that exact song and dance with Lexus a couple years ago. Spent a whole afternoon going back and forth on a specific car they have on the lot and gave them a final, all in price. They said it's not possible and below cost so we walked.

When we got home we emailed Lexus of Edmonton and they immediately said they will do our price for that exact spec car. 30 mins later Calgary Lexus called and offered a price $1500 more than our final price and said that's the absolute best price they can do, so we said we already found one in Edmonton and they lost their shit, saying it's not possible.. below cost.. blah blah. We just responded with obviously it's possible, so thank you for your time but bye.

Next morning Calgary Lexus called back saying they can do our price now if we can go in that day to close :rolleyes: we did end up buying it at Lexus of Calgary so we get the VIP service.

[ThePenIsMightier]

I think the song/dance is the same with motorcycles. I found the precise bike I wanted and color then I desperately tried to find a dealer to match the price of the dealer I didn't like who had it on sale. They couldn't/wouldn't do it so I got stuck buying it from that dealer. Of course a month later Dealer-3 calls me and I told him I bought the exact bike I told him I'd buy and he's all pissy about it.
Whatever Bro. You called my bluff and I wasn't bluffing. A friend referred me to you who literally used to work for you so she could verify I was literally buying that bike that week from whoever would sell it to me. Instead you're trying to lecture me now on the phone? I gonna mail you a heap of my shit!
Plus the discount on popular bikes is less than zero so it wasn't like I was jamming bamboo shards under his fingernails level of deal.

[Clever]

I second this. The email is really effective. Secondly you have to be willing to walk out if you don't get exactly what you want.

I learned this the hard way when I bought my first truck, I even posted about it here on Beyond. Long story short, I found a truck at a local dealership, made an offer, put a deposit. I find out later that day they had better trimmed trucks for the same price at their lot. I tried to renegotiate but they were not willing to budge, I walked away, found another truck from an out of town dealer where I eventually bought from.The local dealer tried to keep my deposit, AMVIC got involved, then I got my deposit back. As an aside the local dealer did try to make things right, by trying to match the offer but by that time it was too late.

[swak]

I learned this the hard way when I bought my first truck, I even posted about it here on Beyond. Long story short, I found a truck at a local dealership, made an offer, put a deposit. I find out later that day they had better trimmed trucks for the same price at their lot. I tried to renegotiate but they were not willing to budge, I walked away, found another truck from an out of town dealer where I eventually bought from.The local dealer tried to keep my deposit, AMVIC got involved, then I got my deposit back. As an aside the local dealer did try to make things right, by trying to match the offer but by that time it was too late.

That is the reason right there why I never ever make deposits at dealers, unless the deal is basically finalized - and I just need to run to the bank or whatever the case.
This hold onto the deposit for whatever reason they pull out of the clouds that day is no scarcity in the world from my dealings.... And goes hand-in-hand with my significant grievances with dealing with car dealers for various reasons.

[ExtraSlow]

The deposit only benefits the dealers. Don't use them.

[msommers]

Yep did that exact song and dance with Lexus a couple years ago. Spent a whole afternoon going back and forth on a specific car they have on the lot and gave them a final, all in price. They said it's not possible and below cost so we walked.

When we got home we emailed Lexus of Edmonton and they immediately said they will do our price for that exact spec car. 30 mins later Calgary Lexus called and offered a price $1500 more than our final price and said that's the absolute best price they can do, so we said we already found one in Edmonton and they lost their shit, saying it's not possible.. below cost.. blah blah. We just responded with obviously it's possible, so thank you for your time but bye.

Next morning Calgary Lexus called back saying they can do our price now if we can go in that day to close :rolleyes: we did end up buying it at Lexus of Calgary so we get the VIP service.

I know Edmonton is a pain in the ass, relative to buying a car 20 minutes away, but personally I would have gone to Edmonton since they didn't try to screw with you multiple times. At that point it's the principle of not giving them your business, imho.

This thread has been really illuminating. Mom has been calling me asking about new cars and this is great info to have.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I know Edmonton is a pain in the ass, relative to buying a car 20 minutes away, but personally I would have gone to Edmonton since they didn't try to screw with you multiple times. At that point it's the principle of not giving them your business, imho.

This thread has been really illuminating. Mom has been calling me asking about new cars and this is great info to have.

I am the same way re: principle. People who return to the same dealership AFTER they have lied to you or tried to screw you, are crazy IMHO and just encourages that behavior. Same with dealerships who won't tell you their cost for a bottom-up negotiation when they know you can find out for $30 - right after you buy that report they want to be your best friend again. You never want to give a penny of commission to someone who thinks so little of their customers IMO.

[RX_EVOLV]

I know Edmonton is a pain in the ass, relative to buying a car 20 minutes away, but personally I would have gone to Edmonton since they didn't try to screw with you multiple times. At that point it's the principle of not giving them your business, imho.

This thread has been really illuminating. Mom has been calling me asking about new cars and this is great info to have.

The reason why we went w/ Calgary was because they said we can only access their "VIP Service" if the vehicle was bought from them, which included the valet service, loaner vehicle, rockship repair, and the pedicure stuff. They said it could be possible to transfer if our car's from Edmonton but that's at the sole discretion of the service manager... maybe this wasn't true at all and we got lied to but... It just seems easier than to have to figure w/ the service manager after.

[HiTempguy1]

I think the song/dance is the same with motorcycles. I found the precise bike I wanted and color then I desperately

This is what it comes down to with any buying that involves salesmen.

Beyond is proof that it works time and again. People want zero hassle to themselves, even if it ends up costing them thousands, and they'll do that.

Hell, RX_Evolv even rewarded a dealer for doing it purely in the name of saving hassle.

You reap what you sow folks, you are patrons of businesses that treat you like shit, they will continue to do so.

[roopi]

I've heard everything you can possibly imagine, from "I'm losing money on the sale" to "I'm taking money out of my own pocket at this point" LOL.

Oh I forgot to mention that in my post. The dealer I walked out of did say there is no way the other dealer can sell me the vehicle at that price because they would be losing money. Haha but they did sell it to me at that price. The dealer who claimed it was impossible later said they could match it. Magic!

[tonytiger55]

This thread is really good. I was actually looking at a newer vehicles in the last few weeks,i.e watching reviews on youtube and how to go about negotiating at a dealership.

Then I did my budget, short, medium and long term goals for the year on the weekend. I realized I cant afford to buy jack shit and in the worst case scenario im buying a second hand Corolla. fml.
I have no idea how you guys buy new shit.

[revelations]

This thread is really good. I was actually looking at a newer vehicles in the last few weeks,i.e watching reviews on youtube and how to go about negotiating at a dealership.

Then I did my budget, short, medium and long term goals for the year on the weekend. I realized I cant afford to buy jack shit and in the worst case scenario im buying a second hand Corolla. fml.
I have no idea how you guys buy new shit.

Thats a different discussion. Many people SHOULD NOT be buying new but you did your due diligence and found the math made no sense.

MANY people would be far better off financially buying a used car and then setting aside some money for inevitable repairs. Save on taxes, depreciation etc.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Oh I forgot to mention that in my post. The dealer I walked out of did say there is no way the other dealer can sell me the vehicle at that price because they would be losing money. Haha but they did sell it to me at that price. The dealer who claimed it was impossible later said they could match it. Magic!

It's classic. One of their most commonly used phrases, I would imagine.

Also, dealers can definitely sell you vehicles at or below 'cost' and still make a nice profit because they get holdbacks, manufacturer incentives, warranty/service work, etc. I'm sure they're more likely to do so when they are trying to hit their monthly numbers, but it happens. Buying in-stock vehicles helps them too. Most of the time though it's just pure BS and they are feeding you every lie in the book to guilt you into paying a higher price. They make it sound like you are taking food off their table by not grossly overpaying for a vehicle.

Another good one is when they inspect your trade-in, find no issues, and then offer you thousands less than it's worth because they have to get it "ready for sale". In reality all they do is get their lot boy to destroy the clear coat, tie a balloon to it, and throw a sticker in the window ending in "999".

[88CRX]

Its unfortunate but believe nothing any car salesman says.

"We can't sell for that price we'd lose money" that turns into a phone call a couple days later is the biggest FUCK YOU these sales guys can pull. And I've received that courtesy every single time I've bought a car.

Gearing up for a new car purchase this year and I'm going to try going strict on the email only correspondence.

[bjstare]

\
I have no idea how you guys buy new shit.

Have you seen the stats on how overextended Canadians are on average? Just take on an unreasonable amount of debt, and you too can do it. This probably represents over half of the people buying new cars.

Or do what other half does... just make more money.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Its unfortunate but believe nothing any car salesman says.
"We can't sell for that price we'd lose money" that turns into a phone call a couple days later is the biggest FUCK YOU these sales guys can pull. And I've received that courtesy every single time I've bought a car.


But...They pulled every string, they begged their manager, they offered to take less commission to get it done, they made a one time exception, they have never done this before, they are losing so much money on the sale, once in a lifetime, corporate just called with a special promotion, THE PRICE WILL NEVER GET BETTER (until you walk away and wait a day) :rofl: When they call the next day they are literally admitting to trying to screw you over and then want your business again. It's unbelievable how dumb they think people are.



Gearing up for a new car purchase this year and I'm going to try going strict on the email only correspondence.

Email is also frustrating, but it helps you weed out the dealers that you probably don't want to deal with anyway. When I email say, 10 dealers, I will get 1-2 that will even deal via email, 2-3 that want me to "come down so we can make a deal", and the rest don't even bother to reply, even with sales managers CC'd along with a salesperson. Very few dealers like to deal over email in my experience, but the few that will are usually the better dealers anyway.

For example when I bought my GF's Honda, the only dealers that would entertain email negotiations were Okotoks and Airdrie. Calgary dealers, even when I emailed specific salespeople through Beyond referrals, either fully ignored me, or ignored all my questions and just replied with something shady trying to get me to come down and talk to them. Some even had the balls to tell me my offer was below their cost when I had a separate line in my price calculation of pure profit for them.

[ExtraSlow]

I realized I cant afford to buy jack shit and in the worst case scenario im buying a second hand Corolla. fml.
I have no idea how you guys buy new shit.Tony, that's true for a huge number of people. Good for you for doing the math beforehand and being honest with yourself. Drive that used Corolla with pride man, that's a smart guys car.

[sabad66]

I learned this the hard way when I bought my first truck, I even posted about it here on Beyond. Long story short, I found a truck at a local dealership, made an offer, put a deposit. I find out later that day they had better trimmed trucks for the same price at their lot. I tried to renegotiate but they were not willing to budge, I walked away, found another truck from an out of town dealer where I eventually bought from.The local dealer tried to keep my deposit, AMVIC got involved, then I got my deposit back. As an aside the local dealer did try to make things right, by trying to match the offer but by that time it was too late.

curious how you were able to get the deposit back considering you had a signed offer? feel free to link to the thread if it was answered there.

[max_boost]

I need a 2019 base VW golf black or white or grey in automatic, no options, which one of you wanna negotiate for me? I want to lease 0 down.

[msommers]

Hire a hooker, find the youngest looking sales rep, get her to show the goods...great deal no problem.

[88CRX]

For example when I bought my GF's Honda, the only dealers that would entertain email negotiations were Okotoks and Airdrie.

We purchased a used Honda Fit from Okotoks Honda and they were actually pretty good to deal with. After initially going in they negotiated with us via email which was nice.

[Mitsu3000gt]

We purchased a used Honda Fit from Okotoks Honda and they were actually pretty good to deal with. After initially going in they negotiated with us via email which was nice.

I bought my other car from them too as they were the best price by a mile, showed me the CCC report so I didn't have to buy it, BEAT my requested price, and did not play any games. On top of all that they paid me exactly what I was going to list my trade-in on Kijiji for - I went in with no intention whatsoever to give them my old car. They also don't even have an admin fee you have to argue about. If you're buying a Honda anyway, they are a pretty safe choice. Airdrie was OK but couldn't get to my price. Almost every Calgary dealer was awful, claimed they would lose money basically anything under full MSRP, had $400 admin fees, etc. Honda West was by far the worst with their "no commission" employees LOL. I literally saved a few thousand dollars just by going to Okotoks on a relatively cheap car to begin with.

[tonytiger55]

Tony, that's true for a huge number of people. Good for you for doing the math beforehand and being honest with yourself. Drive that used Corolla with pride man, that's a smart guys car.

Im still waiting for my Zonda to die...its doing a Keith Richards...

It is interesting seeing the negotiating tactics.
I wonder, how many have actually gone and bought a vehicle from outside of Calgary?

[Mitsu3000gt]

I wonder, how many have actually gone and bought a vehicle from outside of Calgary?

I think quite a few as long as you're including Airdrie, Okotoks, High River. Edmonton and further, probably a lot less. It's surprising how much people will pay to avoid putting in the tiniest bit of effort, let alone driving to Edmonton.

[ThePenIsMightier]

I think quite a few as long as you're including Airdrie, Okotoks, High River. Edmonton and further, probably a lot less. It's surprising how much people will pay to avoid putting in the tiniest bit of effort, let alone driving to Edmonton.

There had always been a big ad campaign in Edmonton with the jingle "Cars cost less in Wetaskiwin!" and I think they do. It's a short drive from Edmonton and the are a pile of car dealerships there.

[ercchry]

Just helped the girl negotiate a 4yr 24k kms/yr lease on a 2018 X1... went from $2k up front, $3k underwater on trade, $620/month at 2.99% on an essentials package to only first month payment up front, $1k underwater on trade, $600/month at 0.99% with wear and tear protection on a premium package... think we did okay, that’s what? A $5k swing? was also texting Bavarian in edm and they couldn’t make it worth the drive up. Took a couple weeks though. I think that’s the key. Not NEEDING a new car ASAP

[Mitsu3000gt]

There had always been a big ad campaign in Edmonton with the jingle "Cars cost less in Wetaskiwin!" and I think they do. It's a short drive from Edmonton and the are a pile of car dealerships there.

Sounds like that is the Okotoks/Airdrie equivalent for Edmonton, so that sounds about right.

[colinxx235]

Im still waiting for my Zonda to die...its doing a Keith Richards...

It is interesting seeing the negotiating tactics.
I wonder, how many have actually gone and bought a vehicle from outside of Calgary?


Well I'm one of the many beyonders who got a VW off Ryan when he was in Red Deer. I almost bought a Lexus from YEG before I changed my mind and want the R more. Lexus up there was giving prices over e-mail and being straight up, blowing away yyc dealers. And as for the VWs in YYC they were all pumping way over MSP for the Golf R, Ryan made that a no brainer.

[Misterman]

There had always been a big ad campaign in Edmonton with the jingle "Cars cost less in Wetaskiwin!" and I think they do. It's a short drive from Edmonton and the are a pile of car dealerships there.

I've never dealt with them directly. But from what I have heard, it's not much cheaper. But customers go there expecting the cheapest that they don't even shop around and are ready to buy. Sounds like more of a branding move then an actual deal. But like I said, I have no direct experience myself to verify.

[RX_EVOLV]

Well I'm one of the many beyonders who got a VW off Ryan when he was in Red Deer. I almost bought a Lexus from YEG before I changed my mind and want the R more. Lexus up there was giving prices over e-mail and being straight up, blowing away yyc dealers. And as for the VWs in YYC they were all pumping way over MSP for the Golf R, Ryan made that a no brainer.

Buying my R from Ryan was the single best car buying experience I ever had. Too bad he's no longer there...

[JRSC00LUDE]

Oddly enough, when we were buying (through the company) an SRT8 Cherokee we simply ran the purchase like we would a typical job. We set the spec of the vehicle required and sent it out to Tender to 4 (I think) dealers. 3 submitted a cost and we bought it from the winner. It actually worked really well.

[Disoblige]

Buying my R from Ryan was the single best car buying experience I ever had. Too bad he's no longer there...
But maybe he can get deals on a Supra haha.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Buying my R from Ryan was the single best car buying experience I ever had. Too bad he's no longer there...

My only complaint with that dealer was that they wouldn't get rid of the Admin fee - as a result my brother ended up buying locally. The experience was great but they couldn't match a dealer willing to rid of the Admin fee (or hide it in a way that didn't affect the agreed upon purchase price).

[Clever]

curious how you were able to get the deposit back considering you had a signed offer? feel free to link to the thread if it was answered there.

The thread was from 2016, there was too much inconsistencies with the whole transaction, also the “offer sheet” I signed was not the financing agreement. AMVIC made the initial inquiry with the dealership after I provided them with supporting documents showing what transpired at the dealership, they then released the deposit before a full investigation happened.

[revelations]

Sounds like the local dealers here KNOW that people emailing them, are willing to go out of town, and then choose to ignore them.

They probably get enough dumb people who are willing to not save thousands - to not bother with those who actually will.

[max_boost]

Why sell it for cheaper if you can sell it for more lol

[elmo909]

I need a 2019 base VW golf black or white or grey in automatic, no options, which one of you wanna negotiate for me? I want to lease 0 down.

"Invoice" is $24,789 on the 2019 (including a block heater).
I'd say invoice plus $500 is probably a reasonable offer, so $25,289 as a starting point.

Assuming my math is correct below... Also I think VW has loyalty program to reduce by .5%
36 Month 20k/yr @ 1.99% is 57% Residual = $357 + GST
48 Mo 20k/yr @ 2.99% is 50% Residual = $325 + GST

Bottom line on the VW Golf, the dealerships barely make any money on them. If you can get out of paying for their "Alberta/Winter/Etc Package" which is basically floor mats for $1500, you're in good shape.

[spikerS]

I have had success with phone and email. When the dealer stops responding, i know i finally hit their bottom line. If they won't talk anything until i come down there, I tell them I am going to call / email another dealer. I don't want to waste my time or theirs.

[spikerS]

And I just remembered, I bought baygirl 's car over the phone. I just went down to sign the paperwork and pick it up.

[elmo909]

I have had success with phone and email. When the dealer stops responding, i know i finally hit their bottom line. If they won't talk anything until i come down there, I tell them I am going to call / email another dealer. I don't want to waste my time or theirs.
This 100%. I have purchased my last 2 vehicles this way and couldn't be happier.

If I get the response "COME ON DOWN!!!", I just say I live out of town, usually works in getting them to negotiate by email.

The one problem I've had is you have to sit in their financing office listening to all the sales pitches for disability insurance, undercoating, overcoating, life insurance, protection packages, extended warranties, glass protection, etc etc etc. I think what I'm going to do next time is ask for them to deliver the car to me with the paperwork ready to go. Will save the 3 hour headache of sitting in that office.

[bourge73]

I can’t afford jack shit either. But what I can afford is easy monthly payments
Leased for $141.83 bi-weekly @ 0% a 2018 Nissan Sentra Sv nice car. Great on gas reliable. Don’t have to worry about a thing
Ps. If you want it. It’s up for grabs as a lease take over as my CU next Tuesday ex and I are going to court and could use some more cash every month.

[revelations]

I can’t afford jack shit either. But what I can afford is easy monthly payments
Leased for $141.83 bi-weekly @ 0% a 2018 Nissan Sentra Sv nice car. Great on gas reliable. Don’t have to worry about a thing
Ps. If you want it. It’s up for grabs as a lease take over as my CU next Tuesday ex and I are going to court and could use some more cash every month.

Common logic would suggest that, if you are on the lower income side of the scale - essentially, renting a car for ~3600$ every year would dictate that after 5 years, you would be out almost 19,000$ without anything to show for - and is not condusive to fiscal prudence.

Buying a GOOD used Civic or a Yaris for say, $5,000 and then investing into tires, brakes and other minor repairs - would net a FAR better outcome after 5 years - and this is what the low end of the scale does seem to understand unfortunately.

[swak]

I hate how entitled some sales guys are at the dealerships.
Been looking for an addition to my personal fleet, and go the "stop wasting my time" attitude when not satisfied with their offers that were of course a "one time offer, and I don't really need this deal, and stretched this deal already for you" speech.

I know theres other offers out there, and sitting in your office, wasting my time more importantly, we have gotten nowhere.

I will definitely be doing deals over the phone/email for now on.

[bourge73]

Common logic would suggest that, if you are on the lower income side of the scale - essentially, renting a car for ~3600$ every year would dictate that after 5 years, you would be out almost 19,000$ without anything to show for - and is not condusive to fiscal prudence.

Buying a GOOD used Civic or a Yaris for say, $5,000 and then investing into tires, brakes and other minor repairs - would net a FAR better outcome after 5 years - and this is what the low end of the scale does seem to understand unfortunately.


Fair point. It’s a 3 year lease. So you spend what $5000 to buy a used Civic. Ok perfect day it lasts 2 years. Then you want a change. What’s it worth ? $3 grand ? Plus all the work you did which it will need and then what ? You take a chance of a minor minor chance the motor or tranny goes. Plus you are driving a say what a 6 7 year old car ? Congrats

So what did it cost you a month ? $100 ? Plus interest as most don’t just have $5 grand cash. I understand your views. But they only make so much sense.

[revelations]

Fair point. It’s a 3 year lease. So you spend what $5000 to buy a used Civic. Ok perfect day it lasts 2 years. Then you want a change. What’s it worth ? $3 grand ? Plus all the work you did which it will need and then what ? You take a chance of a minor minor chance the motor or tranny goes. Plus you are driving a say what a 6 7 year old car ? Congrats

So what did it cost you a month ? $100 ? Plus interest as most don’t just have $5 grand cash. I understand your views. But they only make so much sense.

I drive a 15 y/o civic as a DD. It is well maintained.

Interest charges on a 5000$ loan are going to be peanuts vs. pissing away 19k.

The point is that for people in that income class its fiscally prudent to buy a decent used vehicle and then properly maintain and keep it as long as possible until repair costs go way above market retail value.

A Yaris or Honda will go 300-400,000 kms before the engine or trannys blow.

We just went through this situation with my wifes DD 10y/o (otherwise well maintained vehicle) after it had 385,000 kms on it and the tranny output shaft bearing went.

[bourge73]

[QUO

Interest charges on a 5000$ loan are going to be peanuts vs. pissing away 19k.

Please explain to me where I am pissing away 19k? It’s $2900 a year. 3 year lease and while you and your wife are driving old beaters wondering when the next thing will go...I am driving a new car with full warranty, features. And oil changes all paid ...
To each their own but it’s a cost of living. I need a car. Paying under $300 a month for something that is new and reliable is nothing. I could do what you are doing sure. Your taking a chance and driving an old POS in the process congrats ( I know your Civic is not a POS ) it’s just a reference to what your saying to do.

[Buster]

I drive a 15 y/o civic as a DD. It is well maintained.

Interest charges on a 5000$ loan are going to be peanuts vs. pissing away 19k.

The point is that for people in that income class its fiscally prudent to buy a decent used vehicle and then properly maintain and keep it as long as possible until repair costs go way above market retail value.

A Yaris or Honda will go 300-400,000 kms before the engine or trannys blow.

We just went through this situation with my wifes DD 10y/o (otherwise well maintained vehicle) after it had 385,000 kms on it and the tranny output shaft bearing went.

The advancements in safety technology diminish the traditional arguments for buying or keeping used cars in this way.

[elmo909]

The advancements in safety technology diminish the traditional arguments for buying or keeping used cars in this way.
This is huge.

I find leasing a basic car (Corolla, Jetta, Elantra) at $275-300 a month is not a bad way to go. I've had a tough time keeping used cars to under $3,000 a year in depreciation and repairs. Yeah, it's not the cheapest way, but it does provide you with an economical way to be in a reliable and safe vehicle where your costs are mostly guaranteed.

[Mitsu3000gt]

The advancements in safety technology diminish the traditional arguments for buying or keeping used cars in this way.

This is always my argument as well - that is my #1 issue with buying/keeping really old cars. If there is ever a serious car accident it could easily mean the difference between surviving or not or avoiding major injury. Same with the driver assistance stuff, it is just so good now - if you lose concentration for even 0.5 seconds, it could make all the difference. Nothing is guaranteed but I'd rather have all that on my side. Repairs and upkeep start eating away at the savings driving a cheap car as well, and if you choose not to do said upkeep because the car isn't worth as much, you just make it even more unsafe.

[88CRX]

I'd have to dig up the exact numbers but my old Honda Element which I purchased used for $16k and then sold for only a couple grand 5 years later cost me nearly as much on a monthly basis in depreciation and maintenance as my new TLX has cost me for the past 3 years. And one is hell of a lot nicer then the other.

Ideally you can swing the number a little more favorable with a more economical Civic or Corolla but the monthly depreciation and maintenance are real costs that need to be compared to new car payments (either lease or financed).

Basically you can justify spending more on vehicle payments multiple ways. Depreciation, safety features, AWD, turbos, etc etc :rofl:

[Buster]

Safety is something you can't easily quantify, so it tends to get ignored. But my guess is the "my corolla ran for 200,000km people" are also the "all season tires are good enough" people.

My family is worth increased depreciation.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Safety is something you can't easily quantify, so it tends to get ignored. But my guess is the "my corolla ran for 200,000km people" are also the "all season tires are good enough" people.

My family is worth increased depreciation.

I had a coworker I was close friends with whose entire family was T-boned at highway speed in a newer MB ML550 - everyone got away without major injury. The rescue personnel told him that based on their experience, his family very likely would not have even survived if not for being in such a safe vehicle. I always remember that story.

[HiTempguy1]

Common logic would suggest that, if you are on the lower income side of the scale - essentially, renting a car for ~3600$ every year would dictate that after 5 years, you would be out almost 19,000$ without anything to show for - and is not condusive to fiscal prudence.

Buying a GOOD used Civic or a Yaris for say, $5,000 and then investing into tires, brakes and other minor repairs - would net a FAR better outcome after 5 years - and this is what the low end of the scale does seem to understand unfortunately.

And the difference between comprehensive (required on a financed vehicle) vs basic liability on a $5k beater is easily 50-100/month.


The advancements in safety technology diminish the traditional arguments for buying or keeping used cars in this way.

This is always my argument as well - that is my #1 issue with buying/keeping really old cars.

This is, quite literally, the dumbest, most unintelligent argument I have EVER heard in my life to justify buying new. Fucking. LAWL. :rofl:

Please do show ANY relevant info whatsoever that shows in the past decade deaths and injury dropping drastically due to driving a newer vehicle.


Safety is something you can't easily quantify, so it tends to get ignored. But my guess is the "my corolla ran for 200,000km people" are also the "all season tires are good enough" people.

My family is worth increased depreciation.

This may surprise someone of your stature, but sometimes the plebs don't get that choice.


I had a coworker I was close friends with whose entire family was T-boned at highway speed in a newer MB ML550 - everyone got away without major injury. The rescue personnel told him that based on their experience, his family very likely would not have even survived if not for being in such a safe vehicle. I always remember that story.

Yes, because some rando firefighter is where I get my vehicle safety suggestions from. Solid evidence is solid.

You all worry about (and pay out the nose) over some of the strangest shit:


1. In 2016, the number of motor vehicle fatalities in Canada was 1,898, up 2% from 2015 (1,860).

2. In 2016, there were 10,322 serious injuries due to motor vehicle collisions in Canada, down
4% from 2015 (10,748).

And that doesn't subtract out drunk driving, or the operator of the vehicle being at fault. I bet that halves those rates.

[ExtraSlow]

This thread is awesomely off topic.
Nice work everyone!:clap::clap::clap::goflames::clap::clap::clap:

[Aleks]

[QUO

Interest charges on a 5000$ loan are going to be peanuts vs. pissing away 19k.

Please explain to me where I am pissing away 19k? It’s $2900 a year. 3 year lease and while you and your wife are driving old beaters wondering when the next thing will go...I am driving a new car with full warranty, features. And oil changes all paid ...
To each their own but it’s a cost of living. I need a car. Paying under $300 a month for something that is new and reliable is nothing. I could do what you are doing sure. Your taking a chance and driving an old POS in the process congrats ( I know your Civic is not a POS ) it’s just a reference to what your saying to do.

If your payment is $141 bi-weekly, it means your monthly payment is ~$306/month. Lots of people get tripped up by this math at dealerships when they sign up for lease/finance.

[Buster]

This is, quite literally, the dumbest, most unintelligent argument I have EVER heard in my life to justify buying new. Fucking. LAWL. :rofl:

Please do show ANY relevant info whatsoever that shows in the past decade deaths and injury dropping drastically due to driving a newer vehicle.



https://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/50/1/1

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3256831/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5165015/

I think I also recall you spending an entire thread arguing against the benefits of ABS.

[ganesh]

This thread is awesomely off topic.
Nice work everyone!:clap::clap::clap::goflames::clap::clap::clap:
You mean it follows the natural direction of every single beyond post????

[ExtraSlow]

You mean it follows the natural direction of every single beyond post????

and I couldn't be more proud of everyone.

[bourge73]

If your payment is $141 bi-weekly, it means your monthly payment is ~$306/month. Lots of people get tripped up by this math at dealerships when they sign up for lease/finance.

Thanks. I am well aware of how it works. First two payments were “free” please continue

[msommers]

I had a coworker I was close friends with whose entire family was T-boned at highway speed in a newer MB ML550 - everyone got away without major injury. The rescue personnel told him that based on their experience, his family very likely would not have even survived if not for being in such a safe vehicle. I always remember that story.

MB's safety tech is pretty darn awesome. But I have to wonder if this had more to do with the size of the vehicle than advancements in safety over the last 10 years.

Either way, good to hear everyone was able to walk away.

[max_boost]

To each their own.

I am impressed with the new entry level cars tho. Peppy, safety features, cheap tco etc.

I have enough friends with nice cars that I can live vicariously through them lol

[Mitsu3000gt]

MB's safety tech is pretty darn awesome. But I have to wonder if this had more to do with the size of the vehicle than advancements in safety over the last 10 years.

Either way, good to hear everyone was able to walk away.

I'm sure it was a factor - the big MB SUV's are ~5,000lbs and loaded with airbags and other safety tech. I think it would be hard to argue they would have fared the same in a 15-20 yr old SUV without side airbags or anything like that but I totally understand that it's hard to say for sure since we don't have the luxury of seeing how both accidents play out.

A long time ago I had 3 of my friends get T-boned and pushed into a light pole by an 85yr old woman in an early 2000's Ford Explorer at much lower speed (50-60 km/h), the vehicle was completely unrecognizable afterwards. It just looked like a ball of metal. One friend was injured quite badly but miraculously everyone survived. The engine got pushed straight through the passenger compartment to the back seat and the initial police report said that nobody was wearing their seatbelts because they all ripped off. One of my friends crawled out of the car through a hole in the engine bay, and the first on scene paramedic didn't believe he was a passenger in the vehicle, they thought he was a witness (because they assumed everyone was dead).

Maybe I am more sensitive to the issue because of the stories like that that have been close to me, but I've always valued vehicle safety features very highly and it would not take much to make all the difference.