Other Wheel Companies for Flow Formed Wheels?

[94boosted]

Looking to pickup some lightish track/autox wheels without breaking the bank for my Camaro. I've historically always used Forgestars on my track/autox cars and have been quite pleased but it only makes sense to buy Forgestars when they run their holiday sale (Nov/Dec each year) as it works out to a $450ish discount on 19's. I don't really know what else is out there at that price point (<$2750 all in), roto-forged/flow formed, light (<24lbs ish). At the rate that I switch cars it doesn't make sense for me to get a set of Forgelines or HRE's only to take a bath selling them after <1yr.

MRR wheels are another option as they're a bit cheaper than Forgestars but they're also a bit heavier, Apex wheels don't have any wheels with offsets/widths that will work for me. Any other wheels/brands? Specs I need are:

19x10 +22 (+/- 2mm)
19x11 +40 (+/- 2mm)
5x120

Thanks in advance beyond.

[parabs]

HRE has a couple options for flow forged/spin cast type wheels that are perhaps only slightly more expensive than the Forgestars, I cant speak to the camaro fitments you desire though.

Or find a set of lightly used forged monoblocks. If you are using them for track/autox wheels should be considered a wear item so form should follow function in that case.

[94boosted]

HRE has a couple options for flow forged/spin cast type wheels that are perhaps only slightly more expensive than the Forgestars, I cant speak to the camaro fitments you desire though.

Or find a set of lightly used forged monoblocks. If you are using them for track/autox wheels should be considered a wear item so form should follow function in that case.

hmm I'll look into the HRE stuff.

Yah I've been looking through the forums but haven't had any luck finding a used set.

[Sentry]

Weds Sport. I run 19x9.5 19x10.5 5x120 on my M5. Under your weight target.

https://www.wedswheelsna.com/

[94boosted]

Weds Sport. I run 19x9.5 19x10.5 5x120 on my M5. Under your weight target.

https://www.wedswheelsna.com/

Which model do you run? None of the Weds Sport's are 19" from what I can tell.

[bjstare]

Depends if you have an aversion to entry level wheels. FAST wheels are flow formed, they have a ton of sizes, and IIRC weight is very close to what your target is.

[HiTempguy1]

Weight on rims has been debunked numerous times. The performance advantage is so miniscule it isnt even funny.

Find cheap rims and prosper.

Or as is the likely case, don't and ignore this advice :p

[94boosted]

Depends if you have an aversion to entry level wheels. FAST wheels are flow formed, they have a ton of sizes, and IIRC weight is very close to what your target is.

The only 19x11 they have is nearly 30lbs.

https://www.fastwheels.ca/productinfo.aspx?wn=aristo&fn=gloss+black+with+machined+face+and+smoked+clear&dm=19&wd=11


Weight on rims has been debunked numerous times. The performance advantage is so miniscule it isnt even funny.

Find cheap rims and prosper.

Or as is the likely case, don't and ignore this advice :p

First I've ever heard that unsprung, rotational mass is insignificant...

https://www.turnology.com/news/carbon-revolutions-carbon-fiber-wheel-test-faster-at-the-track/
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=108

In my case going from the factory 20's to some lighter 19's will reduce over 32lbs of weight, not bad. In a world where people spend small fortunes on LiIon batteries and CF body panels, some lighter wheels seems like a no-brainer. Where I would agree with you is if the lighter wheel gave up wheel stiffness.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Why 19's for track? The serious track people I've seen cram the tiniest wheels (nice & light) that will fit and buy R1A or equivalent DOT track tires.
Light and 19" don't really match.

[HiTempguy1]

First I've ever heard that unsprung, rotational mass is insignificant...

Yep, like I said, you'd ignore the suggestion. From a time perspective saved going around a track, negligible to non-existant. On the street? Even less. The math is pretty straightforward, Grassroots Motorsports has done extensive testing on it, anyone but professional race teams don't care because it doesn't change anything.

Give up wheel stiffness? Oh lord, LOL :rofl: The last thing ANYONE should ever care about. Jesus...

People do lots of stupid things and spend lots of money on ridiculous things. Doesn't mean it makes any sense. You could be a rational person. Or not.

Note, I never said not to get 19's. You specifically mentioned shopping by weight, I said it doesn't matter. Don't change the goalposts in the discussion, if you want 19's, great, if you want to save weight, well its an awful idea for performance per dollar.

Go ahead, waste the money. Just understand for all practical purposes short of being in a higher end racing series, its a waste of money shopping for weight.

[A2VR6]

Why 19's for track? The serious track people I've seen cram the tiniest wheels (nice & light) that will fit and buy R1A or equivalent DOT track tires.
Light and 19" don't really match.

SCCA Solo II rules for street class basically only allow you to go 1" smaller than what came with the car. The SS 1LE comes with 20" wheels so he's limited with either 19" or 20".

[ThePenIsMightier]

SCCA Solo II rules for street class basically only allow you to go 1" smaller than what came with the car. The SS 1LE comes with 20" wheels so he's limited with either 19" or 20".

OK. I was picturing an older car that he was putting much larger wheels on.
Makes sense.

[Sentry]

Which model do you run? None of the Weds Sport's are 19" from what I can tell.
SA-55M. Looks like they're discontinued, they phase out old wheels and bring out new models all the time.

[tirebob]

Yep, like I said, you'd ignore the suggestion. From a time perspective saved going around a track, negligible to non-existant. On the street? Even less. The math is pretty straightforward, Grassroots Motorsports has done extensive testing on it, anyone but professional race teams don't care because it doesn't change anything.

Give up wheel stiffness? Oh lord, LOL :rofl: The last thing ANYONE should ever care about. Jesus...

People do lots of stupid things and spend lots of money on ridiculous things. Doesn't mean it makes any sense. You could be a rational person. Or not.

Note, I never said not to get 19's. You specifically mentioned shopping by weight, I said it doesn't matter. Don't change the goalposts in the discussion, if you want 19's, great, if you want to save weight, well its an awful idea for performance per dollar.

Go ahead, waste the money. Just understand for all practical purposes short of being in a higher end racing series, its a waste of money shopping for weight.

Agreed! I mean if you have a little car that normally has a 35lb wheel and tire and you slam on something that weighs 100lbs a corner then sure you will experience a marked difference for sure, but for the most part guys are talking about a few pound variance on a wheel or a tire and act like it is something that makes the craziest difference in their life when the reality is that unless you are competing at such a high level with the most ridiculous engineering aspects and shaving 1/1000th of a second of of every 10th lap time means winning or losing, most people will only experience a difference in their head. People overthink this all the time.

[bjstare]

I know a guy who said he got a 11whp difference (actual dyno numbers) when going from stock wheels to forgeline on his M coupe (and probably stock tires to an R comp of some type), simply due to the lower rotating mass. Idk about you guys, but that would matter to me.

[94boosted]

Yep, like I said, you'd ignore the suggestion. From a time perspective saved going around a track, negligible to non-existant. On the street? Even less. The math is pretty straightforward, Grassroots Motorsports has done extensive testing on it, anyone but professional race teams don't care because it doesn't change anything.

Give up wheel stiffness? Oh lord, LOL :rofl: The last thing ANYONE should ever care about. Jesus...

People do lots of stupid things and spend lots of money on ridiculous things. Doesn't mean it makes any sense. You could be a rational person. Or not.

Note, I never said not to get 19's. You specifically mentioned shopping by weight, I said it doesn't matter. Don't change the goalposts in the discussion, if you want 19's, great, if you want to save weight, well its an awful idea for performance per dollar.

Go ahead, waste the money. Just understand for all practical purposes short of being in a higher end racing series, its a waste of money shopping for weight.

Other than your opinion I can't find anything that supports your claim, you didn't refute the two articles I posted earlier and better yet the Grassroots Motorsports article you mention doesn't backup what you're saying either:

"This test showed clear differences both on the kart track and at the strip. Times were substantially worse with the heavy wheels, which slowed the car by 0.31 second on the average lap and 0.46 second on even the best lap."

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/are-lighter-wheels-really-better/

As for wheel stiffness, yes I meant what I said, if a cheap shitty wheel gave up weight but by compromising on stiffness it wouldn't be ideal.

https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/21984/Walther_ku_0099M_14767_DATA_1.pdf?sequence=1

I've been talking about 19" wheels from the beginning so I have no idea what you're talking about regarding moving the goalposts, the class I will be running the car in dictates what diameter & width of wheel I can use.

To be clear I don't think that a ~7lb ea. lighter wheel will miraculously transform the car or shave a second per lap, I'm not delusional. But If the difference in price between some cast wheels and some roto-forged wheels is a few hundred bucks I know what I'm going to buy. In the class I'll run the car I can't address other low hanging fruit weight wise (seats, exhaust manifolds etc.).

Either way you've contributed nothing of value, just your own unsubstantiated opinions so if you wouldn't mind just staying out of this thread that'd be just swell.

[94boosted]

:thumbsup: either way I'll do some searching, thanks for the suggestion

[ThePenIsMightier]

Other than your opinion I can't find anything that supports your claim, you didn't refute the two articles I posted earlier and better yet the Grassroots Motorsports article you mention doesn't backup what you're saying either:

"This test showed clear differences both on the kart track and at the strip. Times were substantially worse with the heavy wheels, which slowed the car by 0.31 second on the average lap and 0.46 second on even the best lap."

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/are-lighter-wheels-really-better/

As for wheel stiffness, yes I meant what I said, if a cheap shitty wheel gave up weight but by compromising on stiffness it wouldn't be ideal.

https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/21984/Walther_ku_0099M_14767_DATA_1.pdf?sequence=1

I've been talking about 19" wheels from the beginning so I have no idea what you're talking about regarding moving the goalposts, the class I will be running the car in dictates what diameter & width of wheel I can use.

To be clear I don't think that a ~7lb ea. lighter wheel will miraculously transform the car or shave a second per lap, I'm not delusional. But If the difference in price between some cast wheels and some roto-forged wheels is a few hundred bucks I know what I'm going to buy. In the class I'll run the car I can't address other low hanging fruit weight wise (seats, exhaust manifolds etc.).

Either way you've contributed nothing of value, just your own unsubstantiated opinions so if you wouldn't mind just staying out of this thread that'd be just swell.

This was my impression as well. I think it matters but it's not going to covert you to Schumacher.
Regarding the stiffness comment... I'd think the lighter wheels are actually stiffer which is good and bad. Good because stiffer but bad because if they fail it will be brittle fracture and a more serious accident than a warping damaged scenario.
I certainly don't know but I'd be curious to see his backup saying it's essentially irrelevant. It's wasting less energy turning the heavy rims and they're easier to brake. Assuming about 25 pounds per wheel and 25 pounds per tire I think it's reasonable to shave 20% off of those and achieve noticeable gains.

[tirebob]

Again, it is not that it is zero effect... It just isn't real world effect for the vast majority of people obsessing about weight because of some stupid article they read saying that they "need" this blah, blah... Most people simply are not skilled enough behind the wheel to ever turn a few pounds of unsprung weight into something of a tangible benefit vs expenditure. They would do a hell of a lot more for themselves investing in driver training than lighter wheels.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Again, it is not that it is zero effect... It just isn't real world effect for the vast majority of people obsessing about weight because of some stupid article they read saying that they "need" this blah, blah... Most people simply are not skilled enough behind the wheel to ever turn a few pounds of unsprung weight into something of a tangible benefit vs expenditure. They would do a hell of a lot more for themselves investing in driver training than lighter wheels.

Maybe so, but prove it. I'm interested in a proven story. We got a guy claiming +11whp AND he's going to get better braking. That should translate into a consistent, measurable gain.

[tirebob]

Maybe so, but prove it. I'm interested in a proven story. We got a guy claiming +11whp AND he's going to get better braking. That should translate into a consistent, measurable gain.

Just ignore me... I know nothing and could care less about proving anything.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Just ignore me... I know nothing and could care less about proving anything.

Why go zero-to-DickSwinging?
Did you interpret that I was giving you tone when I said "... Prove it. I'm interested in a proven story"? That wasn't my intent. Honestly. I'm legitimately interested in hearing something more concrete than "Bro no diff. #SeatTimeMod" but the thread has two people claiming that it's virtually irrelevant and I'm surprised. I'd like to learn more if there's more to learn.
But hey if you're too busy doing awesome then I guess you can't teach awesome.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Depends if you have an aversion to entry level wheels. FAST wheels are flow formed, they have a ton of sizes, and IIRC weight is very close to what your target is.

Further to this for the OP - I just got confirmation my friend received some custom drilled Fast FC that are only 20 pounds in a 19x9.5! I think he milled a little more off the flange to get the offset he was after but that sounds crazy light. I think that's 5 pounds lighter than my 18" OZ wheels.
I had a set of Fast wheels forever ago and they had a terrible finish on them and their cheapness showed but it's been a decade and I think things may have changed. Since it's light you're after, I'd consider these.

[mikestypes]

Further to this for the OP - I just got confirmation my friend received some custom drilled Fast FC that are only 20 pounds in a 19x9.5! I think he milled a little more off the flange to get the offset he was after but that sounds crazy light. I think that's 5 pounds lighter than my 18" OZ wheels.


My 18x8 OZ Ultraleggera were 18.4 lbs each when I got them 14 years ago.

the trouble with finding cost effective yet light wheels for the Camaro is width. Most options are not wide enough!

[heavyD]

I do know the Subaru STI got significantly slower going from 18" wheels to heavier 19" wheels in 2018 and the car magazine acceleration numbers are documented. Only difference being larger wheels and brakes and 0-60 times drop from around 4.7 seconds to 5.3. For the average person on the street it's not a big deal but if you are trying to extract every last bit of performance from your car for track purposes lighter wheels will make a difference.

[parabs]

My 18x8 OZ Ultraleggera were 18.4 lbs each when I got them 14 years ago.

the trouble with finding cost effective yet light wheels for the Camaro is width. Most options are not wide enough!

Go with Forgelines GTD1’s, 18x10.5 = 19lbs and 19x13 = 23lbs. (See the evidence in the link below.). Has the highest load rating of any Forgeline wheel. Forgelines are cost effective for complete custom wheels. The only other forged wheels that are more cost effect and might be as light are CCW’s.

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/15962-Forgeline-GTD1-Viper-Wheel-Weights

For consideration when determining if a light or heavy wheel matters to the OP:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15130598/upsized-wheels-tires/

[94boosted]

Further to this for the OP - I just got confirmation my friend received some custom drilled Fast FC that are only 20 pounds in a 19x9.5! I think he milled a little more off the flange to get the offset he was after but that sounds crazy light. I think that's 5 pounds lighter than my 18" OZ wheels.
I had a set of Fast wheels forever ago and they had a terrible finish on them and their cheapness showed but it's been a decade and I think things may have changed. Since it's light you're after, I'd consider these.

Sure enough the Fast FC04 is 20lbs in a 19x9.5 but unfortunately that's the widest they go

https://www.fastwheels.ca/productinfo.aspx?wn=fc04&fn=titanium


Go with Forgelines GTD1’s, 18x10.5 = 19lbs and 19x13 = 23lbs. (See the evidence in the link below.). Has the highest load rating of any Forgeline wheel. Forgelines are cost effective for complete custom wheels. The only other forged wheels that are more cost effect and might be as light are CCW’s.

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/15962-Forgeline-GTD1-Viper-Wheel-Weights


I'd love a set of Forgelines but knowing me and my car ADD the car will be up for sale after the season is over so that's a quick and easy way to loose a couple grand.




For consideration when determining if a light or heavy wheel matters to the OP:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15130598/upsized-wheels-tires/

I'm not upsizing I'm downsizing, factory wheels are 20's and as previously mentioned class rules restrict me to same width and +/- 1" dia, hence the 19's. I'd absolutely love to run a square set of 18x11's with a 315 BFG Rival but that won't work.

And thanks for sharing the article, yet another article that shows a lighter wheel is faster :angel:

[94boosted]

Ended up getting a set of MRR M716 Wheels, price was great and they're 5.2lbs lighter up front and 7.8lbs lighter out back.

https://i.imgur.com/G3jYaF3.jpg

[mikestypes]

Great choice. Really like those ones.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[killramos]

Nice wheels!