$5000 Federal EV rebate: Budget 2019

[Xtrema]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-budget-expected-to-include-national-electric-vehicle-incentive/

Too bad for the paywall but sound like a potential $5k federal EV rebate program is coming.

[pheoxs]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-budget-expected-to-include-national-electric-vehicle-incentive/

Too bad for the paywall but sound like a potential $5k federal EV rebate program is coming.

Toss the URL into outline.com and it'll bypass the paywall.

https://outline.com/Cf5hNB

[Darell_n]

So Alberta may get a rebate for a coal powered car?

[Maxt]

So Alberta may get a rebate for a coal powered car?

Get a Rivian service truck with the 110volt power outlets. And a nose bra to cover the butt ugly front facia.

[ExtraSlow]

So Alberta may get a rebate for a coal powered car?

Slowly the balance is tipping. More gas than coal today :
http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServlet

[Darkane]

Thanks for that link.

[ExtraSlow]

Thanks for that link.

That's an interesting link to check during periods of extreme hot or cold weather too. A buddy of mine threw it up on Facebook for discussion during a -30c cold snap this winter. Sure makes you appreciate the non-renewable baseload generation when you see how little renewable provides those days.

[Darkane]

If I’m reading it right, the wind portion isn’t even really running now. Is the time correct?

[ExtraSlow]

I don't know how "up to the minute" those figures are. There's a couple members in that industry that hopefully can chime in with solid answers.

[killramos]

What a bunch of virtue signalling BS

[Xtrema]

I don't know how "up to the minute" those figures are. There's a couple members in that industry that hopefully can chime in with solid answers.

Numbers are live but about 5 mins delay.

Both wind and solar are not reliable form of generation.

If you want to get off coal and eventually gas and goes emission free, we need nuclear.

Hydro is BS too even if BC is all high and mighty with it.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/nov/14/hydroelectric-dams-emit-billion-tonnes-greenhouse-gas-methane-study-climate-change

[Sugarphreak]

...

[davidI]

These EV rebates are such bullsh*t.

They're basically just $5k/car bonuses payable to auto manufacturers who we all know the Liberals want to appease to buy votes in Onterrible and Quebec.

It's a corporate subsidy dressed up to appear like a benefit to (wealthy) taxpayers.

If anything, they should be taxing vehicles based on their mileage / consumption / emissions as is done in Europe. Of course that won't happen since pick-ups and SUVs are what help the Big 3 in North America survive.

[msommers]

Numbers are live but about 5 mins delay.

Both wind and solar are not reliable form of generation.

If you want to get off coal and eventually gas and goes emission free, we need nuclear.

Hydro is BS too even if BC is all high and mighty with it.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/nov/14/hydroelectric-dams-emit-billion-tonnes-greenhouse-gas-methane-study-climate-change

A couple weeks ago, the CSPG hosted a special speaker who discussed energy demands, more specifically electricity and emissions. The numbers don't lie and we (the world) need to abandon coal and go all-in on natural gas. Hear that Germany?

[HiTempguy1]

If you want to get off coal and eventually gas and goes emission free, we need nuclear.


For the love of god yes. With the caveat that we find something to do with the waste, even if that is just bury it 1,000ft below ground (or whatever appropriate place/distance).

Wonder how many tons of waste a year a typical nuclear reactor makes... costs for private space launches have come down so much, soon we can just fire that into the sun :devil:

[Sentry]

I don't even know if it's tons per year. France's grid is (or was) 100% nuclear IIRC, but I heard they are planning to shut down reactors which is idiotic.

EDIT:

France derives about 75% of its electricity from nuclear energy, due to a long-standing policy based on energy security. Government policy is to reduce this to 50% by 2035.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france.aspx

[schocker]

Saw in the CTV story

A $5,000 federal incentive to purchase zero emission vehicles like electric or hydrogen-fuelled cars with a retail value of less than $45,000.

[ExtraSlow]

Saw in the CTV story
Yep, they have an anti-tesla bias, must be short-sellers.

[davidI]

Yep, they have an anti-tesla bias, must be short-sellers.

As I mentioned before, they're just trying to find new ways to subsidize the Big 3 in Onterrible.

[CLiVE]

Slowly the balance is tipping. More gas than coal today :
http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServlet

Really you should look at the balance in the off-peak hours (overnight) when the majority will be charging.
Baseload will still be majority coal

[Xtrema]

As I mentioned before, they're just trying to find new ways to subsidize the Big 3 in Onterrible.

These are the only EV subsidized:

Base Bolt: $44,600
eGolf with tech/asst: $44,200
Base Leaf: $40,680

And I think that's it.

Kona/Niro both starts at $46K.

What's interesting is that up to $55K can be deductible if you write off an EV for business. So tax saving there could be way more than the $5K for consumers.

[davidI]

These are the only EV subsidized:

Base Bolt: $44,600
eGolf with tech/asst: $44,200
Base Leaf: $40,680

And I think that's it.

Kona/Niro both starts at $46K.

What's interesting is that up to $55K can be deductible if you write off an EV for business. So tax saving there could be way more than the $5K for consumers.

Expect to see a Fiat 500e and Focus electric come in at under $45k. The Liberals don't do anything Lobbyists haven't asked for.

[Brent.ff]

I don't understand how this is remotely enough C02 to matter.... all plants eventually die and rot, that is part of the natural life cycle
Most plants don't die in an anaerobic environment (e.g., the bottom of a reservoir), which creates methane, which is the main issue (did you read the article...)




It isn't like you go to a lake made by a dam up and see methane bubbling to the surface en-mass... I call bull shit on this article

You're right, its not like it's boiling the surface. But it's 100% bubbling to the surface. Easier to see when the lake is frozen (see Abraham lake, upper and lower Kananaskis, etc etc. This is not uncommon).
https://postmediacalgaryherald2.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/i13-016582-high-res-jpg-jpg.jpg



Back to EV. I'd probably look at one for my wife who is driving ~200-250 km a day, but when the range is right around that number, not sure we'd risk hwy 2 in winter on the hope and a prayer you're making it

[rage2]

You’re not going to come close in winter. You’re looking at a 25-30% range loss from running heat. 50% on a bad day.

[Brent.ff]

You’re not going to come close in winter. You’re looking at a 25-30% range loss from running heat. 50% on a bad day.

brutal. good to know.

[ExtraSlow]

And it's a bigger problem "funning out of fuel" with an EV than an ICE. I don't mine pushing kms to empty display past zero in an ICE vehicle, but probably wouldn't in an EV.

My wife has been jealous of her buddy's Tesla, so she's looking to get some of those green feelings with her next car. She's talking about a hybrid now. Probably pretty sensible for her commuting.

[Xtrema]

brutal. good to know.

This is why preheating is a thing with EV/PHEVs. So you preheat your car while on the plug so battery doesn't have to work as hard.

[Disoblige]

This is why preheating is a thing with EV/PHEVs. So you preheat your car while on the plug so battery doesn't have to work as hard.
It would be pretty cool to own an EV where you can set it to preheat well before you head out and it's only using plug-in power. Always a warm cabin and potentially no snow/ice to scrape off windows!
I'd totally rock one for the winter for that capability assuming my daily commute isn't too far.

[rage2]

That pre heat helps but it’s the heater to keep the car warm that drains power like a motherfucker. Try turning off HVAC on a cold day and see how quickly it gets cold in your car.

Early Tesla Model S didn’t even have a strong enough heater. My first drive of one was a -10C day. 30 mins later still fucking shivering.

[Disoblige]

lol. Hmm but this idea of the pre-heat is interesting to me enough that it makes me want to buy a Model 3.

I really hope they're not sticking to the whole $45k limit thing, because a $5k incentive for Tesla may be enough for me to pull the trigger.

[Brent.ff]

This is why preheating is a thing with EV/PHEVs. So you preheat your car while on the plug so battery doesn't have to work as hard.

That's fine for parking at home, at her office..not so much

[Xtrema]

lol. Hmm but this idea of the pre-heat is interesting to me enough that it makes me want to buy a Model 3.

I really hope they're not sticking to the whole $45k limit thing, because a $5k incentive for Tesla may be enough for me to pull the trigger.

Wait a couple more year and see if Tesla will survive and see how Model 3 lasts into year 4.

Model 3 and Y doesn't have dedicated heater for battery so they run the rear drive unit to warm the coolant/battery. No idea what that will do to longevity.


That's fine for parking at home, at her office..not so much

Pre-heating without plugging in will depends on how much juice you have left in the car. You can still do it but it will come at cost of range.

So if you buy a 200km eGolf, and have a 100km daily round trip, you can pretty much kiss preheating off plug goodbye.


Expect to see a Fiat 500e and Focus electric come in at under $45k. The Liberals don't do anything Lobbyists haven't asked for.

Are these even available in Canada? I have only see used 500e's and I thought Fcous Electric is no more.

[rage2]

Model 3 and Y doesn't have dedicated heater for battery so they run the rear drive unit to warm the coolant/battery. No idea what that will do to longevity.
A decent amount of complaints about it for Canadians. When the battery is cold it takes about an hour of highway driving to get up to temperatures, meaning it'll never get up to temperature in a typical commute. When it's cold, the driving experience completely changes, as there's no or very little regen. Efficiency also drops due to a lack of regen. When you hit a supercharger, it takes a long time to charge as well, charging at below level 2 speeds till it gets the temperatures up by holding car down with brake and running the motor.

[HiTempguy1]

Kona is $45,599 base msrp. I bet we see a $600 price drop. At $40k, according to my calculations, the Kona would fully pay the extra $20k vs the base non-electric Kona in 6 years for me.

And I would assume with it being electric, it would easily last 10 years. I would at most pay about $2 in electricity per day on my round trip work commute. And since I do plan on being back in the city at some point, theoretically the batteries can go longer. Tesla's batteries are supposed to be good until minimum 500k miles, and the highest mileage tesla P85 has 80% range at 420k miles. So even then it could be kept as a beater car.

This assumes average gas prices of $1.10/L, which I think is lowballing it. Payback would be even quicker if gas prices went up.

Interesting. Still a lot of cash upfront, but if 0% financing was available, I think it could make sense. Plus the convenience of not going to gas stations (I'm there every couple days now, drives me nuts).

Edit-
My numbers were off, I was using the 40mpg a new civic/my current civic gets (in nice warm summer weather with no idling to heat up).

If I use the 32mpg of the fwd kona, it's only 4.5 years. That means in 9 years, the electric Kona would completely pay for itself over the gas model (assuming $1.10 gas prices, which a decade from now will more than likely be higher even simply due to carbon tax).

[Disoblige]

What would be cool is having a small gas generator to alleviate these battery issues in cold weather instead of full EV.
Like a little 3000 W or less quiet generator that can be auto started and power your auxiliaries and heat. The thing doesn't need to be filled with gas for the car to operate, but just something extra for the cold months.

It would be a hybrid, except 95%+ of the power comes from electric.

[ExtraSlow]

85259
It would take a long time to charge fully.

[rage2]

What would be cool is having a small gas generator to alleviate these battery issues in cold weather instead of full EV.
Like a little 3000 W or less quiet generator that can be auto started and power your auxiliaries and heat. The thing doesn't need to be filled with gas for the car to operate, but just something extra for the cold months.

It would be a hybrid, except 95%+ of the power comes from electric.
You literally described the Chevy Volt and BMW i3 w/Range Extender. Their engines are not connected to the drivetrain at all.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

The Volt has always made the most sense to me as far as plug-in hybrids go, which of course means they're killing it off.

[Xtrema]

The Volt has always made the most sense to me as far as plug-in hybrids go, which of course means they're killing it off.

Honda Clarity, if you can stand the look, is a better PHEV than Volt.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Honda Clarity, if you can stand the look

Sadly, I cannot. That thing is ghastly.

[Disoblige]

Honestly, I don't get why some automakers go out of their way to make EVs look so different than regular cars in a negative way.

[Darell_n]

Honestly, I don't get why some automakers go out of their way to make EVs look so different than regular cars in a negative way.

Kind of how McDonalds gives you a salad in an elitist fancy bag instead of a regular paper bag for burger eating peasants. How else will everybody know how important you are?

[rage2]

Honestly, I don't get why some automakers go out of their way to make EVs look so different than regular cars in a negative way.
Aerodynamics.

You have the E-Tron, EQC and I-Pace looking like normal crossovers, and the efficiency is terrible.

[blownz]

Knowing the Libs, it will probably end up being a $5,000 tax credit @ 15% which means you will only see $750 back on your taxes. lol

The $45K limit is a joke as well as you only have a few base models to chose from. Any option and you are over the limit. Shows just how expensive electric cars still are.

[Xtrema]

Knowing the Libs, it will probably end up being a $5,000 tax credit @ 15% which means you will only see $750 back on your taxes. lol

The $45K limit is a joke as well as you only have a few base models to chose from. Any option and you are over the limit. Shows just how expensive electric cars still are.

https://business.financialpost.com/transportation/autos/electric-vehicle-rebate-could-slam-the-brakes-on-sales-until-ottawa-nails-down-the-details

The lack of detail may have opposite effect on EV sales.

Also, doesn't matter. Most mfgers other than Tesla are having battery shortages.

[jwslam]

And it's a bigger problem "funning out of fuel" with an EV than an ICE. I don't mine pushing kms to empty display past zero in an ICE vehicle, but probably wouldn't in an EV.
How does AMA respond when you call because your EV is out of juice? :rofl:

[Xtrema]

How does AMA respond when you call because your EV is out of juice? :rofl:

Tow to nearest charging station and leave you there.

[ExtraSlow]

How does AMA respond when you call because your EV is out of juice? :rofl:
It's a tow either way, although I think you need a flatdeck, or you do for a tesla anyway.

[JRSC00LUDE]

How does AMA respond when you call because your EV is out of juice? :rofl:

Well I'm sure they laugh hysterically once they hang up.

[ExtraSlow]

Well I'm sure they laugh hysterically once they hang up.

Nah, they'll tow you for that reason no problem.