Cellular Device Subsidy - Are you getting ripped off?

[syscal]

https://globalnews.ca/news/5070281/canada-mobile-device-subsidy/

Had this happen with our business plan with Rogers. Nine phones, and I guess we were paying for the subsidy on a couple last year that were past the two year mark. I think we got some sort of rate change but not a credit. We only go with the $15/mth subsidy, so not a huge deal, but I know on the upper end of the subsidy you can be paying quite a bit more.

We had something similar with TD Bank as well, can't remember the exact situation but rep told us of a rate change of some type that occurred something like 18 months ago, and he can make the change now to save us some money. I asked why he didn't tell us about it and he said "I can't go up and down my list of clients every time rates change". We ended up getting a good credit back on that one, but still switched banks.

Both companies acting like they're using paper and not databases and we, the consumer, are to blame for not thinking of these things or assuming that any of these huge publicly traded organizations might actually have some integrity.

[ExtraSlow]

For Cellphones, if you are at or over your 2-years, and you don't want a new device, LEAVE your current provider and come to public mobile. More details in the cellphone plans thread.

[Xtrema]

Well if you are staying on a $80+ plan that doesn't include a phone subsidization, you are doing it wrong.

You can always leave for a BYOD plan or negotiate one from you provider via retention. And if you don't like what you hear, you can always leave.

[killramos]

The math on the full price subsidy plans definitely doesn’t work out.

Be then again, most people can’t afford to pay up front for the 1000 dollar phones we all carry around and treat like a pack of gum.

When I did the math on an entry level Rogers plan vs my Apega business plan I could buy a new phone every year and still come out well on top. But the normal price plans are ridiculously uncompetitive.

[ExtraSlow]

Even the regular price BYOD plans are insane. If you love bartering with the retentions staff you can get a good deal from the big guys. That shit drives me nuts.

[revelations]

Even the regular price BYOD plans are insane. If you love bartering with the retentions staff you can get a good deal from the big guys. That shit drives me nuts.

I stopped playing that game. I was on Rogers for 13 years and on a Ret. pan for 3. They suddenly discontinued all Ret. plans and jacked me up to 120/mo (from about 40$). I couldnt leave fast enough and took an afternoon off (contracting) work to sort it all out.

[jacky4566]

I don't think they are too terribly bad.
Friend of mine renewed his family Rogers contract. Only minimal bartering with retentions.
$200 /month with 12GB shared over 3 lines plus 2 new iPhone 8 with $200 upfront

Public Mobile still has the best (non-special) BYOD pricing. $40/month for 3GB, sounds good to me!

So comparing the two, the friend is paying $27 more per person per month. Plus the $200 upfront. So the total extra cost of the device is $848. If a new device is $818 this sounds like a good loan to me.

At least that's how i view it.
Personally im still on the old Public Mobile $35/month w/ 3GB.

[syscal]

The issue here is that when your 2 year tab is up, they continue taking the subsidy payments. You have to remember to call them and ask to have your plan changed.

Maybe not a big deal on a single personal phone, but I hate the fact we have to track and set reminders to call Rogers every time a phone goes past the two year mark.

I agree with the article, I think it's the telco's just getting away with ripping people off on a technicality. It's no skin off their ass to automatically remove the subsidy at the end of the two years, but they don't because they rely on people not knowing or remembering.

[jacky4566]

The issue here is that when your 2 year tab is up, they continue taking the subsidy payments. You have to remember to call them and ask to have your plan changed.

Maybe not a big deal on a single personal phone, but I hate the fact we have to track and set reminders to call Rogers every time a phone goes past the two year mark.

I agree with the article, I think it's the telco's just getting away with ripping people off on a technicality. It's no skin off their ass to automatically remove the subsidy at the end of the two years, but they don't because they rely on people not knowing or remembering.

True, Agreed there. It should be treated more like what it is. A loan. If the principal is paid off your plan should drop.

[Misterman]

The math on the full price subsidy plans definitely doesn’t work out.

Be then again, most people can’t afford to pay up front for the 1000 dollar phones we all carry around and treat like a pack of gum.

When I did the math on an entry level Rogers plan vs my Apega business plan I could buy a new phone every year and still come out well on top. But the normal price plans are ridiculously uncompetitive.

What doesn't work out about the math? So I pay 15$/month for 2 years(360$) in device credit, and I get a 1000$ phone for 300-400$ upfront. Total cost of phone works out to 660-760$, plus I sell it for 300$ after 2 years essentially making my device payments moot. Every 2 years I basically pay 350$ for a brand new 1000$ phone.

Now if I stupidly keep a 2 year old phone when device balance is covered, and don't upgrade to a new phone, then I'm screwing myself by continuing to pay the device balance payments when I don't have a new device.

[killramos]

Hint. The prices are inflated by a lot more than 15 dollars.

[Misterman]

Hint. The prices are inflated by a lot more than 15 dollars.

Ok so we are getting fucked by the service providers in general. No surprise there, something we all knew. But it's what we have and there isn't any other options. So I'm confused about how the math of subsidy payments vs buying a device outright, doesn't add up? It definitely does not add up, it is wildly inefficient use of money to purchase a device outright.

[killramos]

Because you can get equivalent services elsewhere than the big 3’s normal consumer “share everything” type plans, regardless of subsidization, for substantially less money.

Your “tab” or whatever you want to call it is just different shades of ripoff, and just a way to get you to buy devices you can’t afford more often and it all gets rolled up into an exhorbitant total monthly cost.

When you can get equivalent plans for 50 bucks a month or less. Their basic plans are easily 50 dollars a month overpriced. That’s where you are really getting fucked, the 15 dollars a month is a meaningless pittance in addition to subsidization that’s already built into the business model. That’s how they can afford to keep giving you new phones and locked into the perpetual hamster wheel. Because in people’s kinds 50 bucks a month extra built into the overpriced plan, is easier to swallow than 1000 bucks up front for the phone.

If people could just figure that out, and buy phones they can actually afford, the system would correct itself. But people treat their thousand dollar phones as disposable as a pack of gum so the cycle continues.

And I don’t blame the big 3 for it like most, if you couldn’t tell, I blame people who always want to buy things they can’t afford and would rather play games like perpetual monthly payments and relying on selling phones after on the used market to make the numbers go around. It’s kindof messed up to consider your cellphone to have equity value that you are relying on capturing to make things add up.

[Misterman]

Because you can get equivalent services elsewhere than the big 3’s normal consumer “share everything” type plans, regardless of subsidization, for substantially less money.

Your “tab” or whatever you want to call it is just different shades of ripoff, and just a way to get you to buy devices you can’t afford more often and it all gets rolled up into an exhorbitant total monthly cost.

When you can get equivalent plans for 50 bucks a month or less. Their basic plans are easily 50 dollars a month overpriced. That’s where you are really getting fucked, the 15 dollars a month is a meaningless pittance in addition to subsidization that’s already built into the business model. That’s how they can afford to keep giving you new phones and locked into the perpetual hamster wheel. Because in people’s kinds 50 bucks a month extra built into the overpriced plan, is easier to swallow than 1000 bucks up front for the phone.

If people could just figure that out, and buy phones they can actually afford, the system would correct itself. But people treat their thousand dollar phones as disposable as a pack of gum so the cycle continues.

And I don’t blame the big 3 for it like most, if you couldn’t tell, I blame people who always want to buy things they can’t afford and would rather play games like perpetual monthly payments and relying on selling phones after on the used market to make the numbers go around. It’s kindof messed up to consider your cellphone to have equity value that you are relying on capturing to make things add up.

Oh so you guys are talking about it being a ripoff due to the availability of something like Wynd mobile and it's 40$ a month everything included and unlimited plans? Yeah fair enough. Those small tier service providers are known for having pretty crummy reception at peak hours, so I guess the question is what is the value on the usability of the service you pay for. But with free wifi available almost every where nowadays, I'm not sure the poor service matters much.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ZenOps]

Yup, if you have the staying power to stick to one device for more than two years - buying outright is doable, maybe even preferable.

But most people seriously want to upgrade at the end of two years.

[rx7boi]

I prefer BYOD plans since I typically find them cheaper but damn, I hate looking for used devices so now I just get them off Beyonders who are more trustworthy than ghetto single moms slinging BNIB phones.

[lasimmon]

Oh so you guys are talking about it being a ripoff due to the availability of something like Wynd mobile and it's 40$ a month everything included and unlimited plans? Yeah fair enough. Those small tier service providers are known for having pretty crummy reception at peak hours, so I guess the question is what is the value on the usability of the service you pay for. But with free wifi available almost every where nowadays, I'm not sure the poor service matters much.

Can't speak for wind but not been my experience with any of the other small guys.

[nismodrifter]

For Cellphones, if you are at or over your 2-years, and you don't want a new device, LEAVE your current provider and come to public mobile. More details in the cellphone plans thread.

Interesting. Will look into this. Thanks.

[ZenOps]

What buying outright gets you is negotiation power. Assuming that someday we will all be on 1.4 gbps 5G networks, I can imagine people will get 100 GB/month on cellular plans as a norm - if they continue the idea of monthly caps.

[tonytiger55]

Im having this dilemma right now.

I was on Bell back in 2012/2013. I was paying $90 a month. I calculated after the my phone was paid off, the bill itself should have been around $44 a month.
Bell would not budge at all and it was something stupid like 1g a month. The complaints process was to frustrate and rather not deal with the issue. I left and went to Fido.

Ive had no issues with Fido in terms of reception and usage. I was with them back in 2007 - 2011 (no issues there). Right now im paying $60 a month for 3gig, plus bonus gig nonsense and I get discounted calls to the UK. Ive calculated my wireless usage. I never go above 3gig. Sometimes 4, but thats it.

If I upgrade my (dont laugh) S4 Samsung to the S9. I can pay $619 just for the phone. But I would have to get a different plan and pay $65 month (I don't think that includes the international calls). Yes its $5 more(but its $120 for the two years) and im a cheap ass. So $120 + 612 = $739
If I get the phone free but then im on a plan that pays at least $110 a month for shit I dont use. Basically im paying $1200 for a phone that is advertised on Kijji for $600.
Its cheaper to buy the phone out.

With the S10 coming out, I wonder how much the S9 will drop in price..?

[D'z Nutz]

Im having this dilemma right now.

<snip>

Yeah I had a similar problem but with Fido. I was with them for well over a decade and they couldn't/wouldn't do a thing for me when I wanted a new phone so I left them.

I've come to the conclusion these companies are only interested in new customers and put very little effort into keeping existing ones. Loyalty doesn't mean shit. If you're the type of customer that is okay with being on contract to get a new subsidized phone, be prepared to jump companies every 2 years to reap any benefits.

[nismodrifter]

Im having this dilemma right now.

If I upgrade my (dont laugh) S4 Samsung to the S9. I can pay $619 just for the phone. But I would have to get a different plan and pay $65 month (I don't think that includes the international calls). Yes its $5 more(but its $120 for the two years) and im a cheap ass. So $120 + 612 = $739
If I get the phone free but then im on a plan that pays at least $110 a month for shit I dont use. Basically im paying $1200 for a phone that is advertised on Kijji for $600.
Its cheaper to buy the phone out.

With the S10 coming out, I wonder how much the S9 will drop in price..?

Im in the exact same situation. Rocking an S4 right now, on a cheap plan, it does the job. With newer phone these SOB want me to have $60/mth plan. Ugh. Decisions.

[KrisYYC]

Im in the exact same situation. Rocking an S4 right now, on a cheap plan, it does the job. With newer phone these SOB want me to have $60/mth plan. Ugh. Decisions.

If your S4 still does the job, it seems you don't care about having the latest flagship device. I'd just a buy a decent mid-range phone unlocked. There's plenty of good mid-range Android phones out there now for under $500 outright. The mid-range segment has come a long way in quality.

[rx7boi]

Im having this dilemma right now.

I was on Bell back in 2012/2013. I was paying $90 a month. I calculated after the my phone was paid off, the bill itself should have been around $44 a month.
Bell would not budge at all and it was something stupid like 1g a month. The complaints process was to frustrate and rather not deal with the issue. I left and went to Fido.

Ive had no issues with Fido in terms of reception and usage. I was with them back in 2007 - 2011 (no issues there). Right now im paying $60 a month for 3gig, plus bonus gig nonsense and I get discounted calls to the UK. Ive calculated my wireless usage. I never go above 3gig. Sometimes 4, but thats it.

If I upgrade my (dont laugh) S4 Samsung to the S9. I can pay $619 just for the phone. But I would have to get a different plan and pay $65 month (I don't think that includes the international calls). Yes its $5 more(but its $120 for the two years) and im a cheap ass. So $120 + 612 = $739
If I get the phone free but then im on a plan that pays at least $110 a month for shit I dont use. Basically im paying $1200 for a phone that is advertised on Kijji for $600.
Its cheaper to buy the phone out.

With the S10 coming out, I wonder how much the S9 will drop in price..?

That's how I normally do it. I buy a device that isn't too old but not the newest and latest gadget either.

Bought a Samsung S8 from a great Beyonder several months ago. BNIB for a wicked price.

You can get BNIB S8's between $400-500 and S9's for $600-650. The difficulty is finding a legit seller cause the used phone market are full of scammers.

[revelations]

Oh so you guys are talking about it being a ripoff due to the availability of something like Wynd mobile and it's 40$ a month everything included and unlimited plans? Yeah fair enough. Those small tier service providers are known for having pretty crummy reception at peak hours, so I guess the question is what is the value on the usability of the service you pay for. But with free wifi available almost every where nowadays, I'm not sure the poor service matters much.

I use WIND/FREEDOM as a small bis, and its been fine the past 3 years, and I drive/visit clients all over the city.

[ExtraSlow]

There's lots of beyonders who sell lightly used phones. Much less hassle than Kijiji

[Misterman]

Can't speak for wind but not been my experience with any of the other small guys.

Maybe things have gotten better? I don't know if Rogers and Telus have been doing a lot of infrastructure upgrades? It was definitely very common for providers renting bandwidth from the 2 major players, to get capped connections at peak times. Mades total sense, not like Telus is going to bog down their own loyal customers.

I might go look at some options from one of these smaller providers. I'm due for a new phone and my contract is up with Telus.


EDIT- Just checked Freedom mobile. Basically same plan I have now(127$ a month with Telus), is about 140$ a month on Freedom, but that includes getting a new Samsung S10+ with 0$ down up front. Same thing at Telus would cost me 460$ up front. So 13$ extra per month, but no up front cost. Really it's nothing special at all, as the 460$ breaks down to 19$ a month on a 2 year contract. So I could save a whopping 6$ per month by going to Freedom.

[dirtsniffer]

Holy shit what kind of phone bill is $140 a month?! I thought unlimited everything was like $90

[pheoxs]

Holy shit what kind of phone bill is $140 a month?! I thought unlimited everything was like $90

1500$ phone subsidized over 24 months adds 65$ a month to the plan I guess.

[killramos]

^Math

[Misterman]

1500$ phone subsidized over 24 months adds 65$ a month to the plan I guess.

55$ Either way, it's still only a 107$ a month plan at Telus with no subsidy. The differences aren't much at all. I swear it was Wind/freedom that was advertising these 40$/month unlimited plans awhile back?

[ExtraSlow]

Anyone on any plan from the big three that's advertised on the website is getting ripped off hard. Those are all terrible deals.

[killramos]

Anyone on any plan from the big three that's advertised on the website is getting ripped off hard. Those are all terrible deals.

And the thread has come full circle.

[ExtraSlow]

And the thread has come full circle.

85337

[msommers]

If your S4 still does the job, it seems you don't care about having the latest flagship device. I'd just a buy a decent mid-range phone unlocked. There's plenty of good mid-range Android phones out there now for under $500 outright. The mid-range segment has come a long way in quality.

Agreed. <$400 for a Pixel 2. I'm sure they'd haggle a bunch too.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cell-phone/calgary/google-pixel-2-64gb-black/1422321330?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true