411information.online scammed my MIL's dental practice

[Super_Geo]

Has anyone run into this scam artist company before?

They made an unsolicited call to my MIL's dental practice and asked the receptionist to verify the company's information. They then asked if the receptionist was authorized to give out the information, to which she answered yes (because why would she not be?). The office then received a $499 bill out of the blue, despite no billing details having ever been discussed. This seems to be how this scam artist of a company operates.

Detailed documentation of other small business dealings w/ these 411information.online can be found here... it seems like they run the same scam over and over:
https://www.bbb.org/ca/on/woodbridge/profile/publishers-directory/your-local-411-0107-1349873/customer-reviews

A few questions
- how legal is this? Do they have a legal leg to stand on, or are they just hoping people pay out of fear of litigation or having their credit ruined?
- what is the best way to deal w/ them? The money at this point isn't even the issue... it just makes my blood boil that there are these scumbags preying on receptionists. The receptionist at my MIL's dental practice was in tears when she realized how much they were charging, and that it was presumably her fault.
- there are no signed contracts, they just had a conversation with the receptionist which they recorded and played back when my MIL disputed the invoice

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated... I'm almost tempted to get a lawyer involved and pay 3-4x what they want to rip us off for just on principle alone. I'll give them one thing though, they sure do know how to price it 'just right' so it's easier just to pay to have it go away.

[CompletelyNumb]

Did the receptionist agree to any services or charges on the phone call?

My first instinct is they're bluffing scammers, and will go away without a real fight.

Heck you can threaten to sue them for recording the conversation without all parties consent as required by law.

[spikerS]

Heck you can threaten to sue them for recording the conversation without all parties consent as required by law.

Canada is a 1 party consent jurisdiction when it comes to recording anything in public or over the phone. What that means in this instance is, only 1 party involved in the conversation needs to consent to it being recorded for it to be legal, regardless of how many other parties may be involved in the conversation.

[Team_Mclaren]

wow what a piece of shit

[Star1995]

Heck you can threaten to sue them for recording the conversation without all parties consent as required by law.

I really wish people would stop spreading these lies. You need one party to consent to record a conversation, I can record a video in public or on my property without telling you and parking lot accidents are NOT automatically 50/50 fault.

[schurchill39]

I just read that link you posted and all of their replies to people's complaints. What a sleezy bunch of pricks.

[Gman.45]

How is this scam company able to bill you for just confirming your information as found anywhere online or in the phone book? For them to have a legal case IMO I think the secretary would have to have been specifically told of the services and charges, and then specifically asked to give verbal agreement. Most companies who sell you services over the phone, say SHaw/Telus/whatever, you have to give a verbal confirmation very clearly to what you're signing up for, sometimes they even send you through a specific confirmation loop where you have to key your phone and clearly say you agree.

I'd call the credit bureau and advise them of them threatening your MIL's company credit, as well as the RCMP scam line, tell these tards that this is what you've done, and then tell them you'll see them in court. Oh, also, I'd contact them again, get them to play the recording back to you, and make sure YOU record all of that call yourself. Do that first before taking any action.

I just don't see how confirming and verifying your company's info which anyone can look up, constitutes entering a contract or agreement for $. I've had all kinds of people call me up and ask for address/phone/fax/etc info at companies I've worked at in the past. Unless these scammers specifically said "hi, we're offering you xyz for $ amount, and if you confirm your information to us for the add/whatever, you're confirming that you want to purchase this product...." - and even then, it's dodgy IMO. I hope you can get a copy of the recording and post a transcript of exactly what was said, I'm sure one of the lawyers who are members here will tell you that it won't hold up in court.

[dirtsniffer]

Greasy

[ExtraSlow]

I'm going to bill you for reading this thread.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Why would anyone pay?

[rx7boi]

I like all the scrubs in the comments section that go back to leave 3-4 star reviews after their issue has been "resolved." :rofl:

[R-Audi]

Same thing happened with my Wifes company, a part time worker answered the phone and confirmed the address. She simply called back and said this person has no ability to sign for or agree to other charges for the company and it was dropped.. granted this was several years ago. Authorized to give out info vs authorized to sign off on charges are different.

[elite]

Same thing happened with my Wifes company, a part time worker answered the phone and confirmed the address. She simply called back and said this person has no ability to sign for or agree to other charges for the company and it was dropped.. granted this was several years ago. Authorized to give out info vs authorized to sign off on charges are different.

This. MIL just needs to call back and she only she is authorized to approve charges/financial decisions and not her receptionist and they can pound sand. Have MIL record said conversation as well.

[lasimmon]

Just don't pay the bill?

[Mitsu3000gt]

I can record a video in public or on my property without telling you

It depends where on your property. You can't secretly record video anywhere someone would have a reasonable expectation of privacy, even if it's in your own home - such as a bedroom or bathroom. May want to disable those toilet cams :devil:

[A790]

Don't pay it.

No, you don't have to pay it.

Even if they insist, nope, you don't have to pay it.

If it really bothers you, go to 411.ca and submit an abuse complaint since they are using their trademark. 411.ca is owned by Yellow Pages. They have lawyers.

[Swank]

It depends where on your property. You can't secretly record video anywhere someone would have a reasonable expectation of privacy, even if it's in your own home - such as a bedroom or bathroom. May want to disable those toilet cams :devil:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thjVQfIGqeg

[z24_wheels]

Flip the script. Send them an invoice for processing their invoice.

[lilmira]

ok, bill goes straight to the bin.

[A790]

"We did not and do not consent to any for-payment services. If such services exist, they are without our authorization. Cancel them immediately, remove us from your database/customer list, and do not contact us again regarding any matter."

[98brg2d]

I had these guys call and confirm address etc. and it seemed pretty fishy i.e. fast talking, asking for authorization etc. I simply refused to give them my name. I asked why they needed it and they said so we know who to address the invoice to and I said they were not authorized to invoice for anything. They then asked “well what do you want us to do with your listing? We’ve had you listed on the directory for two years” And I told them to take it down. The lady got all huffy and hung up on me. I thought it was pretty funny the way it went down. It was all on speaker phone and two other guys just looked at me and laughed.

[CMW403]

I really wish people would stop spreading these lies. You need one party to consent to record a conversation, I can record a video in public or on my property without telling you and parking lot accidents are NOT automatically 50/50 fault.

First of all, you got beat to the punch on this one.

Second, pretty sure canada is one of the only countries that only require 1 parties consent, so it is a pretty easy mistake to make. Calm down.

[Gman.45]

There are a lot of US States, about 80%, that are single party consent as well (or are at least not 2 or all party consent states), but you're right, it's an easy mistake many make due to tv lawyers and other common misconceptions on this issue.